Author Topic: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!  (Read 15167 times)

08087

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Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« on: June 03, 2012, 07:55:08 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/huge-ancient-civilization-collapse-explained-123449804.html

The mysterious fall of the largest of the world's earliest urban civilizations nearly 4,000 years ago in what is now India, Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh now appears to have a key culprit — ancient climate change, researchers say.
[Related: Earliest evidence of Bethlehem found]
Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia may be the best known of the first great urban cultures, but the largest was the Indus or Harappan civilization. This culture once extended over more than 386,000 square miles (1 million square kilometers) across the plains of the Indus River from the Arabian Sea to the Ganges, and at its peak may have accounted for 10 percent of the world population. The civilization developed about 5,200 years ago, and slowly disintegrated between 3,900 and 3,000 years ago — populations largely abandoned cities, migrating toward the east.
"Antiquity knew about Egypt and Mesopotamia, but the Indus civilization, which was bigger than these two, was completely forgotten until the 1920s," said researcher Liviu Giosan, a geologist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts. "There are still many things we don't know about them." [Photos: Life and Death of Ancient Urbanites]
Nearly a century ago, researchers began discovering numerous remains of Harappan settlements along the Indus River and its tributaries, as well as in a vast desert region at the border of India and Pakistan. Evidence was uncovered for sophisticated cities, sea links with Mesopotamia, internal trade routes, arts and crafts, and as-yet undeciphered writing.
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wordslinger

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 01:32:45 AM »
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PassedByAScooter

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 01:48:45 AM »
For some reason, this topic always infuriates me because both sides are somewhat correct in their assumptions. It is also true that both sides have studies paid for by those who profit by the conclusions of said studies.
Climate change conversation usually leaves me wanting to bop a person over the head. I will watch what others think, because I don't need to aggravate myself.

Know this though, regardless of your opinion, we're all screwed. Most of us human beings are wasteful, resource-less creatures that do nothing but de-construct for benefit of wealth and image. This goes hand-in-hand with this potential debate.


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hippiebrian

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 03:45:40 AM »
Okay, I'm only going to post once.

It is not climate change that is unique to what is happening today.  You are absolutely correct, the climate does change on this planet cyclically.

The issue is the rate of warming that is currently taking place.  Using ice cores from Antarctica scientists can go back 160,000 years and measure the rate of warming and cooling trends bases on the different gasses trapped in the ice.  The planet is warming right now faster (much faster) than it has in at least the last 160,000 years, and if milder global warming chased civilizations out of the Indus valley, imagine what a higher rate of change will do!

The culprit in all this?  CO2 and methane.  We have been dumping both into the atmosphere for the last couple hundred years, and the rate of dumping them has increased expodentially over the last century.  CO2 and methane hold heat in the atmosphere.  It's their job, and when everything is balanced they allow life to exist.  We, however, have thrown the balance off and are starting to reap the results.


Unfortunatelly, even when exposed to the science behind global warming, skeptics (and those politicians and companies who are profiting from poisining the atmosphere) will continue to dis-believe (can one use the word belief when climate change is a fact?).  Reality is, not believing in the human cause of increased global warming is kind of like not believing in gravity.  I couls say I don't believe in gravity until I'm blue in the face but my butt still won't float off the chair!

zombie

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 03:52:48 AM »
100% agreed. Saved me a lot of word makin'
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08087

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 04:03:16 AM »
Okay, I'm only going to post once.

It is not climate change that is unique to what is happening today.  You are absolutely correct, the climate does change on this planet cyclically.

The issue is the rate of warming that is currently taking place.  Using ice cores from Antarctica scientists can go back 160,000 years and measure the rate of warming and cooling trends bases on the different gasses trapped in the ice.  The planet is warming right now faster (much faster) than it has in at least the last 160,000 years, and if milder global warming chased civilizations out of the Indus valley, imagine what a higher rate of change will do!

The culprit in all this?  CO2 and methane.  We have been dumping both into the atmosphere for the last couple hundred years, and the rate of dumping them has increased expodentially over the last century.  CO2 and methane hold heat in the atmosphere.  It's their job, and when everything is balanced they allow life to exist.  We, however, have thrown the balance off and are starting to reap the results.


Unfortunatelly, even when exposed to the science behind global warming, skeptics (and those politicians and companies who are profiting from poisining the atmosphere) will continue to dis-believe (can one use the word belief when climate change is a fact?).  Reality is, not believing in the human cause of increased global warming is kind of like not believing in gravity.  I couls say I don't believe in gravity until I'm blue in the face but my butt still won't float off the chair!

The problem "they" have is that they went from "Global warming" to "climate change" because it "GW" didn't hold water so now we'll call it "CC". Sure change things to suit the condition. Yet I don't see anyone address the Climate change in the other thread (will have to chack if any updates after this post) How was there CC that wiped out a civilization 4,000 years ago? Amaging was that it was localized "global warming", how is that possible?

And as far as people making money off of something Al Gore is making a killing on his "carbon credits" idea and trillions more will be made in the near future. So don't preach about who's making money off of something, talk about inventing a problem.   
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zombie

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 04:06:09 AM »
How was there CC that wiped out a civilization 4,000 years ago?

Who ever said that?

Carbon credits are just another ploy to make money. Eliminate fossil fuel, and the topic dies.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 04:07:52 AM »
I forgot... The "dust bowl" in the US in the late twenties... That was proof of local climate change. It almost took out the US.
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08087

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 04:10:28 AM »
In the lead story a civilization was wiped out by global warming 4,000 yrs ago, I don't recall any ice age 4,000 yrs ago. How was global warming so "localized", that it didn't show up in those ice cores?

Don't listen to those politicians man they have their hand in your pocket and are digging ever deeper.
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08087

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 04:13:08 AM »
I forgot... The "dust bowl" in the US in the late twenties... That was proof of local climate change. It almost took out the US.

The dust bowl could easily be explained by el nino' (spelling) which hapens every 12-13 yrs. Once the top soil is gone there is nothing for plants to hold onto and nothing grows. Good point but I still don't buy it.
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zombie

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 04:29:15 AM »
It was actually caused from farmers clear cutting the plains. They eliminated all the grass, and kept planting wheat till the soil was bare of nutrients. This left a VAST plain of dirt. The Midwest is it's own climate. So eliminating the grass raised the Temp of the region. The Temp increase caused stronger winds in the region that stripped all the "dirt". That dirt contaminated surrounding areas making the Midwest un inhabitable until fertilizer, and crop rotation was introduced in the mid/late thirties. Some regions are more susceptible to smaller changes than others. It just comes down to humans taking without re paying.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

Vivo

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2012, 05:30:30 AM »
I won't say another word...


08087

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2012, 12:25:03 PM »
I won't say another word...



I think in the islands they wore less years ago then they do today. I remember many topless photos during WWII.
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ts1

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 01:25:34 PM »
The lower Indus valley has nothing to do with Nepal or Bangladesh. Just 1500 miles apart and with very different climate (extreme mountains and rainfall) and culture (still conserved in Nepal, but Bangladesh is under Hindu culture influence for ca. 2000 years).
Global warming imo should affect the globus and not just a single river valley.
But it is true that the Indus valley was much greener 5000 years before.
Still there a lot of possible local reasons (deforestation, avulsion, false watering leading to dryland salinity, ...)
We know several ancient cultures that run into problems by overexploiting their resources, esp.- around the Mediterranean Sea.

Vivo

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Re: Global warming in the past, must have been all those cars!
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 02:14:52 AM »
There were around 1 billion people in the world in 1800 and around 7 billion today and we still live on the same planet today. Go figure....


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