KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: thebatman on May 29, 2010, 04:22:32 AM
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what up? ok, lets see..wanna tune oem 14mm carb.. was looking in manual, in general info, it says carb needle in 1st notch, in carb ch., it says the std is 2nd notch?!? how do you know?.. the pilot jet CAN b removed, i dont think its supposed to tho.. i tried a jet recently (was a 90, i opened it up: idk what to). started fine, revved good: took off, slower, boggish, did have stock air box on also, didnt change any needle height how do you know if i need to change?.. how do i know if i can use that jet? can i "open up"/bore out the stock intake any? what about any porting, etc. easily done? i guess cyl, intake, exhaust,
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The service manual I have is 2000 and says the needle is adjustable but my scoot is a 2007 model and the needle is not adjustable, it is something they have changed somewhere along the way.
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...my needle needed to be in the stock position for best reponse...
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The needle only changes the 1/4-3/4 throttle mix. How does the new jet run at top end?
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...my needle needed to be in the stock position for best reponse...
..same here...i tried hand-made mods, just because there was NO adjustment capabilities on my OEM...
...but stock position ever ruled...
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when i tried that jet, it sounded good sitting, but when i took off, it was boggish and slower so i didnt even take it down the rd wide open(did have stock box on). figured it wasnt right anyway the manual contradicts itself on the needle deal i need to look at mine again dont seem to be able to change pilot jet on this carb either(just a brass rod)..
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...if it's pretty much stock, then there is no need to f*** with the needle...
..have you verified the integrity of all of your vacuum tubing?
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right on.. do wonder why they say 2 diff. positions. yeah, they is only one into the intake
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The needle is not adjustable on mine and the pilot jet doesn't seem to be removable. They may use a different carb on newer models with those features. I believe I have the same carb as you though. Have you tried running without the air box on? You may be bogging due to the jet being too large. Try it without the air box and if it runs better, try an open air filter, or drilling some holes in the air box to let more air in. If you haven't changed the intake or exhaust the carb should be fine with the stock 90 jet. The only time you will need more fuel is if you are letting more air in/out!
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well crap no i didnt try w/o box on.. am gettin an open filter( to get rid of the big,ugly oem box) my cdi(unrestr), boss drive, clutch, springs, cvt , exhaust all is changed.. cage is next, just leaves intake,( if can be done to benefit stock jug), carb/work
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Try like shaka said w/out the airbox. Just a trail run won't hurt it.
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went and looked at jetsrus for sum jets... the ones i saw dont look like my oem.. it said oem style, kiehin but they looked like a screw wit a head. my jet has no head. do they change or am i missing sumthin. seen the numbers i want and only2.50$ apiece
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..if you have some dial calipers...and you're gonna need them if you don't, ...you can physically measure the dimensions of your jet...
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http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/Weldingsupplies/WTTC.html (http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/Weldingsupplies/WTTC.html) Do one thing at a time my bro
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well i really dont know what imma do with that.. dam, they are $8 at this parts houss.. dude, im not as talented as you, i cant make my jets.. i was trying to find sum so i can get them.. sh**, i cant even get ONE thing done.. guess i know more than before BUUUT!! dont think imma risk the other, hadnt grasped the deal with it. need laymans terms, hands on, visuals.. no sense in destoying a perfectly good motor
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I stopped reading 1/2 way thru. Youibhae enough posts to carry us thru this. Show us all the ball$$.
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..batman and th' hippie grass...
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Tyhat wiould Be Mainl,y Hkkiipppikd Grass!~
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... ;D :D :o :D ;D ...
..there's a skeeter feasting on my ankle...dammit...
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show balls??? hippie grass?? dam, i muxt be burnt the f out!!!!
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..i reckon we all are....
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With regards to the jet, I think I may have seen the ones you are talking about and was wondering if they screw in with the head outside. Get one and try it. Only $2.50, I am paying $4.50 here.
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well, yet again i get beat down...been lookin for jets to rejet carb...cant find any like mine, seen all sorts of them tho. guess my kiehin is oddball...dam, may as well give the f*** up!!!!! i get a 150cc, i bet i can go 50+!!!
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http://www.weldfabulous.com/Weldcote-Metals-King-Torch/Torch-Tips-Accessories/Miscellaneous/-p6122039.html (http://www.weldfabulous.com/Weldcote-Metals-King-Torch/Torch-Tips-Accessories/Miscellaneous/-p6122039.html) Try the tip cleaners Bro! They will save a lot of grief. You will have EVERY JET YOU WILL EVER NEED for the price of 1 jet.
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Try this link, they have "every" Keihin carb part! http://keihincarbs.com/parts/jets.html (http://keihincarbs.com/parts/jets.html) You will probably need to pull your jet out and measure it to be certain. Otherwise, I guess I can pull mine out of my spare for you if I find time.
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Hey zombie, that is the same set I am using, (though mine has a blue cover), I could not work out what size each one was so I just measured with verniers. I was hoping to find a set of drills in the size range I needed but that was what I came up with, mine were $8.40, the drill bits, which only had two sizes usable to me were $42.
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That's what I'm talking about Bro! I used drills for many years until a buddy of mine hooked me up w/ the tip cleaners. Much cheaper, and just as easy.
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SO...I'm trying to adjust my stock carb and I got the Idle screw adjusted but when I try to adjust the air mix (small) screw there is little to no response in the idle. Is this a sign of something bad or just because its a crappy stock carb (2005 people 50 2t)
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by the way, Zombie, Shaka, Word, Batman, all the other "regulars" that put the info/links on this forum. Thanks from all us noobs, we gotta learn from somewhere, right?
Thanks again for the knowledge.
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what up? i have one out, i did measure it, MY measurements came to 8.48mm long, 5.61 wide, 5.86 thick???? these dont have the actuall head, just the slot for screwdriver, goes INSIDE "jet holder". thanks for the link, ill go scope it out...... hey zombie, i could use those to clean a carb, not to jet.. you the man there homey.. supposedly i messed up that extra jet i do have. idk?? my drill set was $15 for the micro bits, no dam sizes on bits tho.
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by the way, Zombie, Shaka, Word, Batman, all the other "regulars" that put the info/links on this forum. Thanks from all us noobs, we gotta learn from somewhere, right? Thanks again for the knowledge.
what up dude? thanks for any props, sh** man, i am in the same boat you are!!!! i am just tryin to learn ANYTHING on these things......stick around, there is valuble info in here, i just cant absorb enough..
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SO...I'm trying to adjust my stock carb and I got the Idle screw adjusted but when I try to adjust the air mix (small) screw there is little to no response in the idle. Is this a sign of something bad or just because its a crappy stock carb (2005 people 50 2t)
That is pretty normal. The mix screw doesn't have a very large effect on the idle, especially if you don't have a tach to see exactly! You should be safe setting it about 1.5-2 turns out as a starting point. You may have to ride a bit to really feel how it performs. Then you can turn it 1/2 turn and ride it some more and see if there was any change. Just make sure it is at least about 3/4 turns out so you don't run lean at idle.
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by the way, Zombie, Shaka, Word, Batman, all the other "regulars" that put the info/links on this forum.
..i've learned everything i sometimes think i know from the ppl in this forum..
..i came here with a busted belt and chewed up cvt parts wondering wtf just happened..
..if i can help somebody work out their problems, i figure i'm just paying forward on a debt I owe...
peace
...and you are very welcome, brother...
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Ditto what slinger said.
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well, just an update. went to several cycle shops, scooter shops yesterday, still having difficulties in finding jets for the oem. they are odd balls, dod put a cone filter one yesterday also. seen a "trick" to try from jennings handbook.. move needle to 2nd notch, take out jet completely to see if runs, if floods ur good, if it runs you need to rejet, wonder if this trick works wit a fixed needle??? was suggested to just put a 15-16mm carb wit reed cage, gears.. this shop does make some cool sh**, they look like 1915? indian style motorcycles but scooters.. way cool.. briton bees here in asheville, they have malossi parts,etc. too.. they seem to be very knowledgeable and helpful..
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Wow, I'm jealous, you can walk into a shop and pick what you want to buy. We have one motorbike shop here and they don't do scooter parts.
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...i can't find ANY parts around here....
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dam slinger, youd think g-boro would be full of shops.... ok, another update, dont know if jennings trick works wit fixed needles or not BUT i figured id try.. she runs like the jet still inside...hmmm? craaaazy. guess i do need to rejet carb, which sticks me again,...lmao
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..full of shops that will order your parts for you...lol..
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yeah, here too but theres one cycle shop thats a "kymco dealer", one also sells genuwine,etc. scoots. the guys i spoke to yesterday idk how long they been up,(they also have a newer opened tattoo shop too), but some of those scoots was cool as sh**!! maybe a good connection, said his 50 hits 60.12 wit a 15mm carb. i was very surprised to know about IN STOCK malossi parts w/ polini, etc.. was gonna ride back out after this plug chop but started drizzling...
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well, i just did a plug chop at wot with my odd jet and new cone filter. id swear i could tell a bit of a difference for a bit but anyway the "mix ring" looked to be a grayish??? color and the curved part of electrode was a creamy color..... and the survey SAYS??..........
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hello me, its me again(megadeth)..lol. anyway, went on a short ride till rain stopped me. i think i have finally unlocked door #2:.. id swear she is running better wit this odd jet(could swear they same,idk maybe eq. to a 92 then?) and cone filter, even pipe sounds different, woo hooo!! anyway wot seems better also BUT she is way hard to start(kicked about 12 times,instead of normal 1-2) and bend in pipe from exhaust is alot bluer now.. ???????? ????? i hope youll read my last few posts to help also.
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"Grayish" & "Creamy" colors don't sound very good to me. It's hard to say for sure without seeing it though. How long did you run at WOT before killing it? Maybe try to go for a little longer run to get some more color on the plug. You may also want to try going from too rich where it bogs and the plug is black and working smaller. This method is best, but requires a handful of jets. That's the way I like to do though. That way you're not running lean the whole time you're trying to find the right jet! It also seems to be easier to find the "sweet spot".
I hope you weren't running too lean and did some damage to you're motor. Not to scare you, but loss of compression will make it hard to start. Running lean = HOT. Over-heating will turn the exhaust blue.
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I agree w/ shaka. Go richer on the main. It is most likely too lean on the idle jet also. That will give a hard start. You can safely turn the mix screw out a turn or two, and compensate w/ the idle speed screw. The blue is cause the cyl temp is higher. You need to get that back down w/ a bigger jet.
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Hey all creamy is kind of wierd Is it humid where your at raining,thats usualy a water oil kind of thing,filter tight,grey too lean!Hard start I figure price you pay for mods,mine after rs could take 10 to 15 kicks to start if i don't ride for a couple days and humid,anywhere from 1 to 5 if riding daily,1 kick when warm.I'd think around #105 see where your at,to rich won't hurt much.Don't mean to high jack I need some input check my people 50 tires post.Good luck
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what up guys? you all got on late, i was gone by then...lmao ok, when i did plug chop, she started easy as hell, just like always... could my broken plug wire be the culprit on the hard starting???????? plz say yes.... i went about a total of 1-11/2miles on the chop..(went about 10mi on a ride, 2test her ability). go further than that?? same distance as before.. not good?? daaaaaam dude, i can even tell she runs better, wth??? gray and creamy no good huh?!?! the curved part of electrode had traces of the creamy color, "mix ring" was grayISH(GOTTA WORK ON THE "ISH" SYSTEM,lmao)maybe i put the oem jet back in and chop.. i was liking the way she was running, more responsive.. i hope its just the broke wire thats causing my hard start issue( started just fine till then)
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...i reckon creamy is like tan and that is goooood....
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It could definitely be the plug wire that is causing your hard start. I have replaced mine with an NGK from the local dealer. I wanted to be able to fit normal spark plugs with out having to remove the little top nut. I think it was $6.
The top curved part of the spark plug doesn't really matter a whole lot. I think the creamy stuff that accumulates on there is from the oil. Mine all do that too even when the chop is good. You really just need to pay attention to the mix ring. It should be brownish color, not grey. You may have to get a magnifying glass to really get a good look at it.
What did your plug look like after the 10 mile ride? 1 - 1.5 miles should be fine for a plug chop.
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..oh, i thot he meant creamy at the firing ring...i was skimming the posts...kinda behind a bit...
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what up? well today i got myself one of those ngk boots and she fired right up, juuust like she should!! i had also put the oem jet back in since people weary of grayish color, guess maybe should do one wit the oem jet huh?? just to see what color?? i actually put the old plug back in for my ten mile ride so idk. it looked gray ISH to me, no magnifyin glass tho.
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ok, shes good again. imma do a test in the a.m to see what the plug looks like wit the new filter anyway i guess huh? if b 4 my plug wasnt gray (w/oem box), and i had a SLIGHTLY bigger jet w/new filter and it was grayish (not right color) but i could tell she ran much better with that grayish plug.. then how is going bigger going to make to right? if i try to open it more with my microbits, since they dont have sizes, how do i know what to try? zombie "makes" his. how would i know if i went TO big? (mindful that the pilot jet isnt changeable).. is the mix screw for air or oil? is all the way in closing the air or oil off? screwing it OUT gives more? of which? does that have to be changed at these times at all?? for chops??
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...microbits make a difference....
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In is less air out is more,this is mostly for your idle.Bigger is better.More fuel brings more air at filter creating more vacume to draw more oil to mix.It's kinda like that.Your close just need a bit more to be safe.
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That is why I don't mess with making my own jets! I like to be somewhat precise about it and know exactly what I'm putting in there! At this point I have just about every size jet for my carb both main and pilot!
I believe on your carb the mix screw actually controls the flow of the fuel and not the air. There are two ways of doing it on different carbs. All the way in is the least fuel to mix with the air. As you turn the screw out you are allowing more fuel to mix in with the air. Always have it at least 1 turn out! The mix screw only adjusts the idle mixture. Once you crack the throttle the slide takes over and allows more air to flow into the carb. At this point the small idle circuit plays very little part in the overall mixture. The needle taper and width then takes over and "meters" how much fuel can pass around it until you hit WOT when the needle is pulled up fully out of the main jet. Then the jet size is the "metering" point.
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Ya!shaka nailed it.so once your idle is set for new airbox.There is no more to do on that cerciut.To get a better idea of the plug reading at wot.A smaller jet Is letting more air into the mix than needed causing it to burn so hot it vaperizes the oil before it can lube the piston,cylinder and crank properly.This is why you need more fuel to cool mix down a bit and would like to see some residue oil left on the plug.Grey is burnt oil residue lean,brown not all being consumed by the fire good,black(wet)little oil is being cosumed to ritch.
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quick question for future reference, when you remove the carb do you have to pinch off the fuel and/or oil line? Or does the throttle (slide needle) take care of that for you??
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No it is all run on vacume,If its leaking something is wrong.
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I stick a golf tee into the oil line, that will drip till the tank is empty
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Ha!bniesen has a people The oil is on the intake after carb,no doubt if you unplug from the tank you have a mess
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I stick a golf tee into the oil line, that will drip till the tank is empty
Ah, that golf tee that is now part of the kymco tool kit! ;)
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ok, im back, lets hope all you still here. ok i tried to pull a zombie and make a jet with my microbits. i used the next size bit(no#),i got .838mm,.033in. opened it up a tad. i did a plug chop(indexed)with oem jet and one(indexing slightly off) with the bigger jet. my scooter must be smokin crack!!! i think all have a gray look. the oem is alot lighter colored on the mix ring (which btw is the "colored ring" around the ceramic bottom portion of the shank but not dead down from top, slightly upward, correct??) anyway with the bigger jet it was virtually unchanged from oem(performance, responsivness), the mix ring was also a lighter color and thinner ring but looked gray to. seemed unchanged to me, well rpms did seem to drop a few hundred at take off, i could tell she wasnt starving as bad as with oem. took a short ride(w/a chop plug), that plug looks/has a VERY faint ring around it(dont look gray, light makes it disapper, the ceramic is started turning a brownish color w/13?mi ride..hmm?? must b the crack
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It sounds like your close'be nice if you had a couple sizes larger to try.I'd rather be to rich than work down.
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thats my issue, cant find any jets for this dam thing yet, one more possibility tomorrow. how could i be close if its not better,but same(performance,response). i can drill out to next size..lmao, but i cant put the metal back in if to big..this first chop i done i could actually tell it was better, more pep, better response. some said wrong color yesterday,now i tapped it bigger and lost that pep.. so i should put the oem jet in, set my idle. the mix screw is 1-1/4 out right now.... dont know if i like the ngk boot w/ its hard ass plastic tho....
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I miss read thought you said was better with bigger jet.Scratching my head now!I had to go from a #70 to a #90 open air and pipe,and still a hair lean http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark_plugs_catalog.html (http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark_plugs_catalog.html) Have you looked at this yet
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no, not really, pretty much unchanged, lost a few rpm at take off and i can tell she isnt as thirsty but not peppy.. yeah ive seen that but they never say how many miles are on those plugs anywhere, my chop plugs look new except for mix ring, this plug with 13? miles started coloring some tho
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If you go to large just solder it up and drill it out to a smaller hole.
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ok, im back, lets hope all you still here. ok i tried to pull a zombie and make a jet with my microbits. i used the next size bit(no#),i got .838mm,.033in. opened it up a tad. i did a plug chop(indexed)with oem jet and one(indexing slightly off) with the bigger jet. my scooter must be smokin crack!!! i think all have a gray look. the oem is alot lighter colored on the mix ring (which btw is the "colored ring" around the ceramic bottom portion of the shank but not dead down from top, slightly upward, correct??) anyway with the bigger jet it was virtually unchanged from oem(performance, responsivness), the mix ring was also a lighter color and thinner ring but looked gray to. seemed unchanged to me, well rpms did seem to drop a few hundred at take off, i could tell she wasnt starving as bad as with oem. took a short ride(w/a chop plug), that plug looks/has a VERY faint ring around it(dont look gray, light makes it disapper)
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well i just went out and turned mix screw another 1/4 turn to 1-1/2 turns out, she seemed to respond better to that,(ran better, bit more pep) am i crazy or am i getting anywhere near spot????? my idle is taking a bit to come down tho, (which started when i redid my cvt last week), but may b a touch worse with this bigger jet in.. also seems to have altered cvt a slight touch, is this possible?? maybe 1/2g lighter roller??
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I'm even having a hard time here. Try this Batman... Run a NEW plug for 60 seconds at wot. Just post the result from that. Setting your idle mix for the highest rpms on the mix screw is still a touch too lean. You will need to get it to the highest rpm's, and then turn the screw 1/4 turn counter clockwise, that is the best setting. Once you have that use the slide adjustment screw to bring the idle to the desired rpm.
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Hey learned something new again,I always set to to highest idle,That would explain why mine is raceing a bit at stops now.I'm a bit late to this thread do we know the carb model.If its the pb I found alot of info for it.
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what up zombie? ok, even have a magnifying glass. with this bigger jet, it still looks grayish to me.it is a fainter, thinner ring than before tho, i put a light on it or in sun ring looks to dissappear. curved part, creamy. seems to run ok i think.. flatter than before till wot, cvt changed
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I've missed quite a bit on this and am a little lost. You're saying it performed best with the oem 90 jet, correct? When you opened the jet up a little the mix ring was lighter and you lost your performance? Keep in mind the best performance is going to occur with a lean mix! You don't necessarily want to tune by performance, but by what the plug tells you! If you tune by performance your performance won't last long!
I found it real difficult to distinguish between plug chops done with jet sizes very close to one another as well. What I really ended up doing was running one I know was too big for awhile and getting some good color on the plug. Then I would drop down one jet size and do the same until I ended up with a plug that was nicely browned after running for a couple days.
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no, not really shaka. it runs ok with oem jet, just starving. this big jet she runs a bit better but the plug still grayish, even richened it a tad.idk size, noticeable difference in size, bit was .838mm. other things changed also(cvt,pipe sounds)
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Try going up in size again. 85-87? I like shakas advice on going too big, and working back. It is alot safer that way. BUT you are soooo close to the right set up. I think you will find 86 will get it for you. Just work on the plug chops for now... forget the rest for a minute.
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I thought you started with a 90 jet. Is that smaller than your 0.838mm bit? Take Zombies advice about only changing the jets right now and focusing on the plug chops. You don't need to readjust any of the screws for each jet. Those screws only adjust the idle circuit and have no effect on your main jet/WOT plug chop!
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What's shaking shaka? Bat ... After re-reading I think I posted the wrong #'s but the idea is the same... Keep going up a bit!
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whaaaaaat up this a.m. ? nobody in here i am sure. yeah shaka, this was a 90 jet... my microbit size, the .838mm is bigger than the oem hole, 2 drillbits bigger. i cant go big then come down, only jet i have..lmao. i am going to go up another drill size today and test it. since idk the sizes, its hard to tell how big the hole is compared to real jets.. hope you all are around later... thanks guys...
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well boys, its official...again.. I AM LOST. just pulled out a BRAND NEW NGK R plug, looked inside.. to my amazement, there is a grayish ring around it, all 3 plugs.. SOOOO, evidently my mix ring isnt the same as yours...no wonder the color never changes, WHATS THE "MIX RING"??..ie: bout 2mm UP ON the ceramic portion, correct?!?! did redrill jet tho, (.914mm bit)seems a touch better, she is louder than before, neighbors noticed it also, just now omw to store... so, should i just put oem jet an filter back on, especially since i cant find the ring?????????????? DAAAAAAAAAAMITTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!
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Stay with the bigger jet for a day or 2 should get some color on it by then to get a true read,you may still need to go bigger.If .914mm is a true mesure i think you want to be around .950
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tis i... just did a chop with redrilled jet(.914mm).. she runs good, can tell a bit better, louder now... idk y unless just combo of air filter, rejetting. my base of the plug was actually goldish instead of the silver base/box a bit different. anyway, i actually got some tan/brownish color JUST BELOW the grayish ring i spoke of(new plugs too). seems just under that going down thru to the metal base, the rest of ceramic is white, even the curved part is not creamy, almost unchanged there... sooooo surely i am almost there if not there!! pray that i am..lmao!! hey art, my next size up is a .038in/.965mm.
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Ha!That might be It?How many stock jets you have,can't hurt to try,better to be a little rich than too lean,I have a hell of a time reading new plugs.I like shaka's method go rich(do no damage) than come down.When you hit the sweet spot you"ll know.
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man, that would be nice..lmao.. would need to chwnge cvt yet again if correct.... thats the funny part, i only have the one jet(+ my oem 1). so i was leary of boring it out too far. i did get a possible connection on sum jets tho last evening somewhere on ebay. hope i can find him..lmao does anybody else pay attention to your pipe sounds????? i do and i could actually hear the"overdrive" again, am i wrong to listen to my pipe?
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Tuning by ear old school not always perfect but that was the only way,when i was a kid.I don't think you'll need that stock jet anymore.The weights I ran before big bore were 6.5
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yeah, i sure hope i dont need it anymore.. then i can try to drill it out..lmao. i went with 7.5, 7s took away top end. seems the stall is gone now, either need 7s or stiffer fly springs
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The 6.5 worked great with mine the 7 with white spring and now with the larger tires 8 It's kinda confusing,but if you have the 6.5 it may get your top back,I know it sounds backwords but it works.I'm stuck right now for optmum I think I need 8.10 or 8.25 8.5 robs my low and mid,or stiffer spring.No scale yet!
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i gotta make sure about the jet before i redo cvt again.dam..lmao, just starting getting that part down..whew yeah, 6.5 does sound backwards to me.. i tried 6s one time(when first started),she revved like crazy an went like 15-20mph. that was WAY OFF. wanted to go ride a bit to test her again but rain is almost here! i can hear the pipe, she dont strain as bad today either and still hit the "overdrive". YAY!!! LMAO
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Ya thats what the 7's did with my tire change maybe heavier afterall.I went from 8.5 stock to 6.5 with the pipe and pod and got gains at both ends,they came with the next r.Sound like your damn close
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If you go too far batman, you can melt solder into the jet, and drill it again. One size does fit all.
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well zombie., if i did that, how do you know the hole is straight again? it just happen? will you check my posts today and see if you happen to agree with art about being close?? how do you REALLY know when it is good and stop??
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I read thru, and you guys are on the right track. If you heat the jet enough the solder will flow perfectly, and it is softer, so easier to cut thru again, It will cut straight all by itself
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so i guess im not gonna know whats to far untill i am to far.. i really dont want to go from "sugar to sh**" as some may say. especially since its still an oem carb..
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It's almost always gonna happen like that. But you do need just a bit more.
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ok then, so just go back into and go up one more size. i think that bit measures .965mm(.038in).. thatll be going from a .914mm(.036in). do i want the whole shank brownish from a plug chop?? i thought just ring was colored in.
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Sounds like you are getting close! The whole plug will not change color until you ride it more than just for a chop. That's why once you think you have it, ride it for a couple days and check back. You may still need to go up to the next size from the sound of it. It won't hurt! Ride that for a day or two and check it. Like Zombie said, use solder to close it back up and re-drill with the .914mm. I've never tried it myself, but I hear it works! Figure you're this far in, might as well learn to make 'em smaller too! ;)
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what up fellas.. well, sinve i have several agreeing opinions about going up one more size, guess i should try it out today.kindof nervous tho in case its to big..lmao... todays my short day, be nice to ride a bit an test her out. hadnt from yesterday either. i did recheck chop plug(4 sh**s an giggles) it doesnt seem to be as brownISH as yesterday, seems more tannISH now..
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If it's been wet and humid while testing it will be a little richer may explain the color change,but your in the right range,one more up! I say,You still have an extra jet to start all over again Ha!Don't be scared,you'll be happy when you know its right and performing at it's best.
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well, heres my daily update: drilled out jet to next size(.965mm)(.038in) from the(.914mm)(.036in) started fine, went on chop test, spit and sputtered most of the way, when she wanted to hit "overdrive",starting spitting badly. she was slower also.. mix ring was black, curved part was creamy again. now i gotta figure out melting solder to go back one....
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Ok, so you know where your limit is now. Soldering is not hard, I think zombie heats the jet in an old saucepn, I don't have that as an option so I just heat it with a regular soldering iron, $7 from the cheap shop. Give it a try and you will see it is no biggie.
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Now if you could find a .935 bit.I use a self starting torch(bernzomatic)Heat jet one dab flux core solder to hot jet should do it,It would be nice if you could find another bit in between the two.Damn was hopeing it would not be to big a jump,as sidth has said now you know ::)
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ok, im back... i did it, i did it... did i mention i did it??..lmao whew!!!. it took me two times but i got it.. too much first time, had to drill, then melt again.. i cant really tell if the same as yesterday/today.. seems to be the same. idle still takes a min to return to normal but cant change idle jet.. guess i better run this for a day or so, sh** i cant go bigger..lmao. i did put a chop plug in for a small ride, bout 15-20mi.? the plug shank was starting to get a rustish/brownish color, the curved part of the electrode was also,rustish/brownish..... yeah, if i could find one i may try it,the .935?.... i was disappointed tho.. oh well.. sid, all i did was put a small piece of foil on the stove, sat jet on it..i actually had some thin solder
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Well that's perfect bat. I'm proud for you. You can open the pilot the same way. It is tougher because of the length, but it can be done. I do the same as you w/ the solder I just set the jet on the electric ring itself. No foil or pan, and it has never stuck or left a permanent mark. But anyway sounds good to me. The .0935 may be the sweet spot.
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i couldnt have done any of this w/o all of you...ty btw....would like to have a 15-16mm carb, figure 17+ would be overkill with the stock cyl...on my original carb, i had taken the pilot tube out and bored it also. i had cleaned tube and the 4 cross holes in the tip. i would have no clue as to what to even look for trying to open it up, did you only do tube or 4 holes also?
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Ha! sound like your there maybe you reemed it out a little bigger ;D
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Actually a 17-19mm carb would be GREAT on your scoot. More air/fuel=more power. I run a 28mm that most will say is too much but I found it to be perfect. I have almost no sensitivity to environmental factors, and I have almost zero carbon build up. The inside of my pipe is still shiny if I wipe it w/ a dry rag. I really have no ideas on opening the pilot tube. The 4 holes are called atomizers. they draw air that displaces the fuel into a mist. If you opened only them you would draw less fuel thru the jet. I have never tried but MAYBE blocking 2 of the holes will draw more fuel, or at least keep it more liquid (dense). It is worth a try in my opinion.
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Congrats on making your jet! If it is rustish color you're probably good. I don't know if I would mess with boring out the pilot or the atomizer! Those things are so small to begin with it would be very difficult to make small adjustments too! Have you tired backing out the mix screw a bit more to help with fast idle/lean condition? It sounds like you got your main jet figured out now. Get a couple days ride on it and check the plug again. Once you're satisfied with it you can really dial in the idle and mix screws. Then you should be done! Yay!!! ;D
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YaY!
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Yay, but, ah, you're never done while there are more mods to be done, just a resting period. ;-)
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Fighters... Take your corners!~ DING
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ty guys, yeah, maybe some is starting to sink in...lmao yeah, i am sortof nervous about taking the pilot tube out.. gonna try and ride this for a day or so, then go to next project.. even got turned down by honda for jets, dam things are odd, imma tellin ya!! just make em then huh...lmao..... i have my mix screw set at 1-1/4 as of now, thats still good i think, did go to 1-1/2 but she seemed to smoke more
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what up guys? i am back with another ? about the carb..... i had some work done and today i went for a plug chop, my plug was virtually unchanged, NO mix ring.. the curved portion of course had a white tint to it.. so that would be lean, right?? should i go up a size?? or two??.. i also picked up a set of the torch cleaners today, i think my missing size is in this pack...lmao... it wont be long and this thread wont be any good...lmao..i keep going imma HAVE to upgrade carb.............thanks ALL OF YOU........
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Ha! you can file to any size with the torch tip cleaners,Just might not be able to do the same twice.GO BIG!You got the saldering down HA!
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of course they dont have the sizes either!!! >:( i was measuring a few with the calipers(which btw, mine measure in inches),.... so since there wasnt a mix ring, i need to... i didnt get but 3 plugs....lmao.....surely i cant go TO BIG....(yet,rlmao)...(did you see where i got the squish ;D )???...
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Ya It looks good.the cleaners are like small files keep chipping away at it.I just use the caliper to get me in the ball park.I did have to go bigger after the squish.
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sup art?? i am totally assuming that your info is coming from your ppl projects???? or do you have a zx also??.. in your opinion, which would you do first?? adjust cvt or rejet carb?(cvt ALMOST there, not quite sure which way to go there,i post it.)..... i rode about 50 miles today with this..i didnt take my plug out when i got back tho..should have.. she seemed good, did baby her a bit more than usuall(usaully try to go wot)....lmao...guess i could go pull it out and check..
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just pulled plug from my 50 mile? ride this afternoon(of course cold by now). it is JUST NOW trying to get a tint to the porcelin.. shouldnt it have ALOT more color after the mileage(50)???
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Ya no super anymore,Its all about the jets I find trying both at once is impossible and if you do cvt first you may jet your self out of the sweet spot.I don't think you ever realy finish.Ha check words world I'm still not dialed feels close,than to my stock people builld and then the 63 vespa vbb big bore kit and krank.
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yep more jet Ha!
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well sh**!!. ::) >:( guess i get to try out these cleaners then... wont tonight tho, i be bored tomorrow...lol..
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I'd like to see it a little wet on that maiden voyage,Might want to put an ounce or two of oil in the tank to be safe.
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Wont be bored when that thing is screaming
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i could tell a big difference today!! i was smiling all over the place..lmao...no telling how much i could eventually get out of her..lol
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It was i big difference on my stock build,might try to get it jetted right tomarrow,I'm torn because my over sized pistons have showed up,Probly take my other jug and head in and get it all done up.(We know how fast those machinest are ;) )
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mmmmm, oversized piston....lmao..... i wish i had the funds to get a ppl from you.... oh yeah, does anybody know why my carb is a PA instead of a PB???? whats difference???..
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Thats a good question I did a day of research and all i know is they are hard to get anything for(pa or pb) It's very confusing.I think if you could find a used 20mm kiehin all would be easyer.But not as much fun!!!I think they make these just so you can't modify them.Try to stopp us! :D
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I BELIEVE THAT ONE FOR SURE!!!!! yeah, cuz my long return to idle gets on my nerves some!!.(better today by a touch).. whooaa...i think a 20 would be too big with this stock rig... i was told a 15, possibly 16 would be the trick, 17 would be overkill, heard here 17 would be about the right limit.... id say i will HAVE to upgrade at sum point cuz after this wanna go to matching...lmao
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You cant get the idle down with the air fuel mix?All mine were doing that when i tooned by ear.Had to turn the mix screw about a half turn clockwize and bring the idle up a bit.Fixed all.I think you could run the 20 with the open air and pipe,It's overkill but I've been able to run my 19mm float bowl dry with bad tuneing at wot.Just alot more options with a real carb.I think the pb and pa wre made for beginner quads and mopeds.
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she idles good but when im running and stop at a light, etc. it takes about 15? sec to return to normal idle..... i havent really messed with the screws anymore. did run mix screw out 1/4 ccw once but she spit more.. have mix at 1-1/4 out, idle is 2- 2-1/4? out right now..
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Try going in some more,did the trick for me
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I know this don't sound right but your a little to lean at idle so it takes a bit to calm down,zombie had a post somwhere and i didn't think it was right but it was :-* ,had all my bikes doing it not no more!
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take it to 1 on mix??? 2 on idle?????? in??? clockwise?? thought all the way IN cut off any air mix, out made it richer
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Idle is where ever you like,but air screw should go in some,most dont like to go less than one turn out,but i had to on the hot rod The more you turn it in it will drop the idle if all is working right then set idle to your liking
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Thats what i thought too on my dirt bikes but not on the scoots or was wrong all along smaller motors than i ever had little more finiky i guess ???
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even the manual says not to go below 1... scary sh** there homeboy....lol. now is it oil or air you getting from mix screw???... how is less gonna help?? (sratching head)..guess i can turn it to 1 and see...... i gotta go crash out.......
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fuel and air oil on a different rout on the people,my warrenty was voided long ago ;D I picture it like this when you turn the screw in you are shutting an air passage down alowing more fuel to run with less air at idle when turned out you are leaning the mix of air and fuel.Ha! and read my bottem line. Night
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lmao....wish you were around here so i could WATCH it done once, helps me to learn quicker,easier...lmao.......
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You'll get it,just try it tell us how it went,catch ya later i'm out too
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well i am back for another mindfk..lmao.... i tapped out my jet to what i thought was gonna be a .037in/.939mm with the torch tip: well my .038/.965 micro bit fits in the hole also.....hmmmm. anyway, went out on a chop, the porcelin could see a tinted fraction, but the mix ring was a deep chocolate?? color.. isnt that to big???? i could tell she WASNT quite as peppy as yesterday, AND she died out going down the same hill for all my chops and i could actually hear a very TINY "backfire"?? i think, 2-3 of them coming back.... i am thinking of going back since it was peppier, no "backfires". even tho its a bit lean i guess, maybe more than a bit since my 50mi ride still showed a white plug..... what is YOUR take??????
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You are right at the edge hair ritch they start to sputer when ritch,don't pay attentiont to the size of jet so much with the torch tip cleaners,I't more like your widdling a perfect jet size.I say hair smaller your there.Of corse its easier to widdle more out than put back in ;D
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well crap, again.......... i was hoping shed be dead on today.... better find my solder
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;D ;D ;D got to run too more weight for me before they close!
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better hurry....no shops open on sun. here, close at 1 sat. :-\
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well my .038/.965 micro bit fits in the hole also.....
...we, us human beings, can't hold the bits and files and jets in true alignment...to be able to drill to .1 mm deviation..
..i generally drill with a smaller diameter drill bit than what i really want, then verify the size with the next size or two larger bit's non-fluted end...
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well, i guess that makes sense..lol but how do you get the size you WANT?? guess tho, only one swipe thru with the torch cleaners unlike today when i went back and forth a few times. cause .914 a bit lean, .965 touch to big.... may just have to run a bit lean....had been anyway(for the MOST part).... at least it will be a touch easier THIS time.... :D (i hope)
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..it takes a few trial and error "files" to get th' feel for what yu're drilling...
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Ha! what was i thinking no shops today here either or tomarrow,Every day is friday when your all busted up like me,got to work on the stock build for a bit today atleast, bigger jets new filter and still to lean,but better,cant get the bottem quite right and can fell the belt slipping,here we go again ::) lots of trial and error for me,I have no patience I go big If i guess wrong it's salder time,if its close than a few times through with these.
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crrrrap, thats one of the bad things about this carb: you have to take it completely off and apart EVERY time
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The people not to bad I don't bolt the seet down till done(seet is never bolted down) 2 bolts an its out with the open air box,do the same with the cvt one bolt to hold cover(kickstart not recamended)and it hardly ever has all the bolts in it either ;D
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..currently have 5 bolts in my cvt cover...
..carb removal is a breeze, and i too have the "met-in" fasteners rolling around...
:o
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yeah, i only have a few n my cvt also... yeah, just wish they made an easier way to change jets..like the ones with the "go thru bowl"........
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The arreche has that,but the bowl is screwed from the top down,total pain to clean,get to pilot jet or needle.You have to pull mounting studs to get to the bowl screws.
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imagine that.....oh well.. maybe i wont have to do this again for a while ;D (thought that before too..)
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If you had to deal with the arrache it would have been over the fence by now,I hade to do it several times for each jet and still Think i need the smaller pilot jet the one i didn't order!
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:D :D now THAT is a dam good possibility...throw it, then go hunt for it an hr later.... well, i redid my jet back down today..idk what imma do here... i may have had the one i wanted.i drilled back out and run a small file thru a couple times..then my .965 bit(i turned backwards), came real close to fitting. the very tip did(blunt side). got nervous and filled it back again..lol..
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The closer to that edge you can get the better of course you have to go over to find it! :D
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sh**, i think im at the edge..lmao.. maybe after a bit more work, i could go to that next bit/cleaner...its abit lean but she ran good tho, even have it here where told it will run better lean... not sure of my altitude..like 2500??..idk...
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You can use the smaller cleaner and file out a little at a time ,don't need to jump to next,so far none of the cleaners have been perfect,got to widdle it's allways right in between,so far.
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wondering if this carb could have any bearring on my new, HEAVIER "race variator"..... ??? ??? ???
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I Don't know about the weight but for mine the mid tuneing became more important to the whole process,still not right yet! Got a whole bunch of stuff to try,but all will be on hold for a bit got the parts for a buddies bike I got to put together to get it out of my garauge!!! amoungst all my other projects
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well, a real dumb ?...... when you say mid, bottom, thats the posistion of the throttle, correct?......i rarely ever take off with 1/4 throttle..i usually just twist and go....lmao.. i have noticed that alot of these setups i am trying dont really have much except top...
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Correct the position of the needle jet and size of your pilot are like a ramp to the main jet and the smoother the transition the better it works with the cvt. I was running much the same way and it did not matter untill I started tweaking the cvt. A couple of adjustments (fine tuneing) for the mid and bottem made a big improvement to how it turned the cvt. Now if I could could get a handle on the rest of it damn springs and things!
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see that sux, i cant learn THAT part yet....my needle is non adjustable, and the pilot is non movable...can only upjet... :-\
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They are but not by conventional means,i hear the (buzzer or zinger)somthing like that. A popular wet bike / quad motor has all the jets necessary,not familiure with the brand.Through my machinest if interested i'll get some more info. For me had to make it happen get a good look at it and some of that mountain stuff ;D Get creative!
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not sure if i heard of it but sure find out anyway, thanks... yeah, a "honkey hook up"........RLMAO..... id hate to break that pilot, that would way suck, as much trouble as i had to even get it back to normal in the beginning! whoa, that blowed..lmao
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Ha! I opend the pilot on my stick build all i managed was 3 1/2 turns out to make close ,but iknow i have the fuel nessicary now. The needle was a little more involved,but a couple beer can shims did richen it just about right,Means nothing now waiting on the full machine service now ::) ::) ::) That otta be any day now,right Ha! It's on the shelf again.
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the hole on mine dont go STRAIGHT thru if im not mistaken. i thought maybe honning it a bit but i wouldnt want any shavings to be stuck..goes up into the four atommizers then ?. i may have long idle again,lmao check other thread...
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Ha! thats what compressed air and parts cleaner is for. Don"t do it the gain was not worth the effert,but now i now. ;) I think the needle is.
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but isnt your carb a bit different?? how in the hell did you shim if like mine?? the barrel/needle dam near one piece....
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Mine has a little plastic cap. If you look down the top of the slide it can be removed(counter cloackwise) There is a little spring that hold the needle in place under the cap. It will allow for a slight mod. When you have it opened again see if your needle has any play(up and down) If it does You must take advantage of it Some how ;D
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i do remember a plastic piece in there.. the manual swears its can be adjusted.. i do believe there was a cock hair of play in the needle, i know the spring is under there also..
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..i shaved some off the plastic retainer, and off the top of the needle on my oem a50 carb..then filed down a small washer to .025" and placed it beneath the needle's head...cpl more shavings to the retainer, and i could 1/4 turn it back into place...effectively raised my needle .025" on a non-adjustable needled carb...
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word!!.. whats up, now that sortof sounds techy but at the same time sounds ok but how do you know to go up or down?? how much to go??.. i am trring to see this in my mind right now, may have to go take barrel apart to see myself....by beneath, you mean the part you may see from looking down INTO the barrel/sleeve??
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Ha! it's 2 beer cans worth. ( up ) all you can get without some more mods ,but in my case it was enouph. actually had to go to one beer can when it got hot sputterd like crazy till then off the bottom.Try it you'll like it :D
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..yeah, put the washer in the slider, then drop in th' needle..hold needle in place and flip slider over, and with a screwdriver, insert spring and retainer...
..at least that's how it works on my oem a50...
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..i got a bunch of beer shims available at a really good price...
???
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Makin em up right now
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..yup!!..me too!!!
..if i start typing funny, don't tell scosgt....
..he don't like it when i type funny....
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OH MY ;D .We do have a princess,Long live the barbariens!!! I will try to give it a break,BUT
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...I AMM NNOT ANN ANNIMMALLLL!!
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ok, not that ill do this now BUT i do have the barrel/sleeve in my hands.. i have appox. 2mm play in the needle now. the needle spring(under plastic top)"bottoms out" somewhere in that range.. my plastic piece looks triangle shaped with what APPEARS to be a phillips head screw, but its not a screw. ok, i took the retainer out....how did you shave the plastic piece and it still twist and click into place??? not much shaving on the needle head either, WOW!. thin anyway. that looks easy enough for me, but exactly whats the advantage?? more fuel at a different time?? how do you know how much to go?? a can shim huh??? a small ass shim i might add..... daaaaaaam, i want a beer now. :D ;D ;D
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HA HA HA!!! Yea f/n hahh! Sorry bat check the s200 thread,not responsibal for any thing you see(Well mayby a bit) ;D ;D ;D
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..i "shaved" the retainer by rubbing it back and forth along a fine file...
..same thing with the needles head..
..and yup, it'll gve u a richer fuel mix fuel during mid throttle, and a bit more at idle too...
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i have, according to torch cleaners, a .052in play in my needle as of now. pushing needle in against its spring gave me the .052in. do you want any play in the needle or would you want it tight?..... i wouldnt need to cut/trim anything to "raise" my needle really do i since there is a .052in play......
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I went as far as possible the first time and was pretty good till it got hot I think one(beer can) will work,depends on mod and stuff ;D
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...you do want some play, so your needle wont constantly rub the side of the atomizer in the same place all the time...
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i thought a beer can was the same as a drink can, which is .005in thick...wouldnt that mean 5 shims to get that .025 you mentioned( be about half the play)
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...the logic is, that the more beer (shims) you consume (use) the higher you (the needle) gets...
;D
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high???? take it higher than a birds pussy?? :D ;D :D...so i guess if this was done, then my jetting is gonna be off again too???? could you tell a difference tho?? METAL CONCERT ON 105.9.....testament....anthrax.....FK YEAH!!!!! (seen em both btw in person..lmao)
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...bat, you would not get along well with scosgt...
;D
..if your jetting was good before, then you wouldn't need to do this anyway...
..it really won't affect WOT...
..you might need to increase air flow a little at idle...do your chops during mid throttle, and see what your plug tells you, as well as how it runs during mid throttle..
..
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In a perfect world that is true ,try to flatten a beer a soda can and have it hold it's shape. Buy the time you bugger all the ends to make it fit the hole it's perfect. If not make another there cheap me and word can't give em away! :D
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You must get authorization in scuzz's world before the beer can shim install can happen. God may strike you dawn if you don''''t. ;D
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...lmfao... ...... ;D .... :D
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well, with the way she ran today, it seemed ok but i really dont know what the max from this carb COULD be anyway, it is a 14mm....lmao. ...according to the shift pattern, mid seemed good once i was in the "powerband" i guess, it was making power...lmao...i was a bit lean at wot before, hadnt done any other chops anymore cuz the pilot jet never changed, so i figured it was still lean as before....... i would like to think there is still some power left inside my carb to harness.........
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i was a bit lean at wot before, hadnt done any other chops anymore cuz the pilot jet never changed
so i figured it was still lean as before
..the pilot jet only effects idle, and just off idle acceleration...
..main jet governs WOT, and if you're lean there, then that's a bad thing...
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Back to i think the topic. by increasing the needle performance you will have some gains for the cvt,for me i wasn't making the hp at the right time I had top to spare but not enouph umph to keep up with the cvt in the off idle and mid,so no nice smooth transition all or nothing baby it did work just not well ::) Does that make sense?
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i was a bit lean at wot before, hadnt done any other chops anymore cuz the pilot jet never changed so i figured it was still lean as before ..the pilot jet only effects idle, and just off idle acceleration... ..main jet governs WOT, and if you're lean there, then that's a bad thing...
now hang on homey, i have it in here somewhere, YOU have even said they run better when a bit lean..you had waited on shaka(i think) to say it first....... i do need to do a few tho..if my cvt stays good, i would like to tweak(if possible) the carb somemore...
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..not to the point where lean causes a problem...
..still gotta have a tan firing ring...and that was on my 4-stroker...
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This is true but better rich than tooo lean,Ha hold the the presses making to many gaskets,I did have to lean my hot rod on the needle for better performanc in the heat,was sputtering, the stock build had to richen it after mods. Trying to stick with that one for you ,but I do have allot going on.cept the saleing part.Damn!
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I did have to lean my hot rod on the needle for better performanc in the heat,was
yup...eggzactly...
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:D :D well i just pulled my plug to look, even tho its been in there a few weeks now(i think)..it is a DRY(as hell) rusty color w/ a deeper shade rust on a portion.... (seems like maybe #7 on plug chart)(my print does suck tho)..cold or rich but ok..idk
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just pulled my plug to look, even tho its been in there a few weeks now(i think)..it is a DRY(as hell) rusty color
..DAMN!!..OMG!!
..THAT'S JUST WHAT MY PLUG LOOKED LIKE JUST BEFORE MY PPL STOPPED RUNNING!!!!
...i'm just f*ckin' with y' bat...
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Humidity and summer gas,sounds about right.
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...that is how my plug looked tho...lol..
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whew, bout had me there...lmao.....i am sure i could use a chop since it was a tad lean when i tried to upjet again after squish but couldnt... at least mine isnt theonly one then....lmao
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..batman..i told you something that was wrong, a lil while back...
..i said the Leo, Malossi, NCY and OEM springs and clutch parts were all the same...
..that was wrong..
..the NCY clutch i have has smaller O.D. fly springs...and there is not enough clearance for the Leos or OEMs, and I would suspect the Malossi's either...
..sorry dude...
:-\
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...found my red springs, and i'm installing them even now...
;D
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Hey bat This may help you a bit,playing with the 50 today got the new race pully it is aluminum and quite a bit lighter than the oem,so much for the brand new 9.5 dr pulley set had to go to a 12g set and guess what I'm back in the 60+ club,It'a not perfect yet but much improved. so i remember you mantioned your current drive is heavier I think ya got to counter that try 2 to 3g lighter and hope for the best.
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..art, watch your belt with the taller drive face....
..tended to force my belt into the starter bendix, creating a groove about 1/16" from the edge...
:-\
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;D I'm now kickstart only ;) had to sacrifice the fan also the outer belt do run a bit hot thaught it was the bendix,gota run,my parts is here
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..i used my OEM splined fan retainer with the tall drive face so i could keep the fan...
..worked well...
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..i hope you figure that face out...
..i was getting close before my troubles...
.really think the 729 belt might be th' key..
..it's kicking ass on my guilty, and the two scoots list he same size oem belt...
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So you got the oem fan to work with the aftermarket drive face on the people hmmm,i can't see it happenning with this set up,was saposed to be an athina showed up as a rumia,don't know if that makes a difference.(on sale) I'm wondering if the aluminum dicapates the heat better. the outer belt is noticably hotter than the inner and thats were the friction is ??? All seems to be working fine. I thought the outer heat was from friction from hitting the bendix ,so i removed it and no difference ??? and no noticable rub with the longer gates belt. It does have a higher top potential,I'll be trying the new clutch face tomarrow i hope. In the mean time bought another aero 80 for a $100 no title (great shape and going to pick up a geely with title for a $100,you might see were this is going ;) In my spare time. catch ya later
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So you got the oem fan to work with the aftermarket drive face on the people
..yeah, and on the agility...
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ok boys...i am back....well, my cvt HAS to be close now, has to be...i was gonna play with carb again today but i am sortof against it...its pretty humid here today..will that change my sh**??? i know she runs different when hot and humid........
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So whats the final set up? My hot rod is down right now (stator) I think, No spark!!! I have a feeling it's been on it's way out for some time leading to many of my tuneing problems since the trip to california. Damn! May explain the crapping out at high revs I've been haveing.
Any more juice you can squeeze outta that stock carb will help ;)
The fan will not work with the rumia drive face in stock form. Had to grind and mold to get it in the seat and torque it down. Now it interfeers with the kick start gear return ??? I Will have to trim all the fins to make it of any use. So no fan for now (It don't run yet)
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whats up art? thanks for the reply..i was wondering if being so hot and humid today that would actually throw me backwards...idk...have to hope store has more plugs, i am down to one chop plug...lmao.... currently, i have the malossi 1000/ w oem flys, heavy ass race var w/7s..idk if thats it. posted in other with ?.....lol
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well i took carb off today, ran torch cleaner thru 3 times. took off for a plug chop...actually had a tannISH ring around this time....wooo hooo. curved portion of electrode was a darker tannISH..stopped right there..had a tan ring..lmao...BUUUUUUT... i may need to try that shim trick
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Yep! Did ya notice any pick up in performance. I'd say your almost dialed now.
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...sounds like your carb is damned close then..
:)
...give it a day or two...
..see how it averages out on performance...
8)
..every day is a challenge...
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yeah boy, every day is a challenge...been messing with her most of the day....lmao.. i didnt really notice much inprovement but did sound a bit better(less whiny??).....still not much low and mid i dont think, i could be wrong tho...idk...
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update:....... rode her today for about 50-60 miles, between the removal of carbon and/or the rejet but dam, what a difference today..mid was better, top was even better(posted in other thread also)..bottom was slack again, idle is even lower today, may have to raise a hair......sooooooooo, i wonder if these shims would help any somewhere or just stop till i get a real carb..lol....(thinking of trying to port my reed cage to help the flow in)(supposed good for 1mph,according to a hardcore tuner)..(have a pic of what to shave marked)...alot mmore plzd today with her, NOW i think shes STARTING to wake up!! ;D ;)
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Thats cool, when you get a good result it makes it all worth while. Removing the carbon has allowed it to breathe again, before, you were getting the air/fuel in but she was struggling to get the ex. gas out effectively choking the engine.
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I AM A BELIEVER.................YET AGAIN..LMAO :D ;)
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;D ;D ;D It's the small things sometimes, get rid of that oil.
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yeah, i believe that also...lmao wonder if all belray is like that or if the syn is ok...maybe just go straight motul...yeah, i didnt like that carbon crap....maybe i need sum of that sea foam ppl talk about....lmao
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Seafoam is good, I have had the same results with all bel ray products,It's great if you plan to tear down your motor every 4 hours Ha! Get some yamalube if it's local if not i'm not sure right now I,m trying the motul but hav'nt had a chance to run much 50+ has been down,but its back!!! check the people 50 thread loads OH fun Ha!
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Just to verify the the bel rey. The gal i got my 2005 ran it religiosly (synthetic) and when I pulled the pipe literaly balls of carbin the size of golf ball rolled out. Now the cylinder and all held up well for a 7500 mile motor. But I never had anything like this happen with yamalube!!!
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i will look into some of that yamalube stuff...heard of it, bout it...lmao
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So is bel ray a low quality oil?
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I think it's a good quality oil but the carbin build up is weird. The way it was explained to me if you plan to take it down after every race it's a great oil(from my dirt bike days) And if you have a personal machanic to do this it is even better! But for a daily driver and a little neglect I don't think it suits the real world to well. Every bike i have run it in has done this and honestly it performs well but the carbin build up is insane. Like i said I've run yamalube and never had a build up like this after many hours of abuse.
Ha! so it's a great quality oil if your in the competition end of the spectrum but high maintinance seems to be a must. I personaly realy liked this oil till i had to do a couple teardowns after using it. Carbin city. May have something to do with the pump gas couldn't run race fuel all the time.I don't know
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What about oil for 4 stroke engines.
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Ha! I'm not an expert ;D I like mobil 1 synthetic in the top of the class,but valvalien, havilien are realy good. I used to like quaker state before penzoil bought them. I do not like penzoil for anything.
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.. What about oil for 4 stroke engines ...
..used Castrol for a long while, until i switched to full synthetic...
..i use Royal Purple now...have been for a year...
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Yep forgot about castrol good stuff too. Royal purple not easy to get here so I've gone to mobil for convience.
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...some good stuff!!..
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i definately had a bunch of carbon....still had that good noticeable difference today ;D id swear i just got 2-3mph on top.
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..carbon indeed!!!
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yeah, i guess this is my last half bottle of the belray... that was robbing me badly on performance!.... next ? i probably have already covered earlier..lmao... yeah art, that JUST OFF idle throttle is about dead.. from 0-13 dead/slow, then she starts getting there..much quicker, faster, higher top end, mid thru top seems great, just that begining..thinking rollers for part BUT part does seem to be carb....is this where our convo of shims comes into play?????????
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Yep making one right now ;) Just try one but make two it's easyer that way.
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i assume that its a small circle, to fit inside under the needle..just stab the needle thru the can??.. or try and drill a hole with micro bits?.. sorry it took me so long to reply.
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Take a good look at your needle. Mine ramped up to a larger size. Cut a tab(beer can) fold and drill to the right size (use vise or vis-grip) . Than slip over needle and trim to fit. Try one to start but save the other just in case. Two made mine sputter.
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so in essense your taking the can, fold it over(which will make.010), then cut it circle to fit?? yeah, my needle tapers big at the top also..... check my other too plz
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Aluminum can't be flattened and hold its shape without pressure so 1 may be double the size with burs and all. You can also try some real gasket material. There is not alot of room in there you'll see :D
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G'day blokes, just to back track a little, the reason I asked about the Bel ray oil was that I have always used Castrol oils, when I bought my GS500 at the first service they used Castrol Active 4T which is what I use in my bikes. For the last service (which was the second service) instead of taking it 400 kilometres back to the dealer I bought it from, this time I took it to a dealer in Port Pirie. When I picked the bike up I asked what oil they used and was told they use Bel ray. If it is of questionable quality I will get it changed sooner, but if it is not bad then I will leave it for the 4,000 that I had intended and get Castrol put back in. The service interval is 6,000kms.
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You should be ok for the 4t it's good quality. There t2 oils I do not recamend good quality,high maininance. I like to stay with one oil once broken in if at all posible.
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oh no, its tiny in there..thats gonna be a small ass shim/washer..lmao.... i thought i had measured the travel that night...i know its at least .025. .. a can is .005.. thinking hard on that....lmao..may need it,idk
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Find a small wad punch and punch a hole in a can, then use the disc from that and put a hole in it for your needle.
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G'day batman, I have taken a piccy of my inlet and reed block so you can see how it goes on. Please excuse the filth, she is a little overdue for a little tlc.
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...wow...an adapter....
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Yep, all part of the "power inlet" that came with my carb. $125.
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...that sh** should be awesome!!
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Yeah, the oko carb is a keihin copy but I think it is okay :), with mine I am thinking my exhaust is letting me down. The carb is tunable, quite easy when you get used to it.
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I've used Bel-Ray oil for the last year without anything to complain about. I started off using the SI-7 full synth, then switched about 5-6 months ago to the H1-R. I do like the H1-R better as it seems to smoke less and smells a little better. I think it burns cleaner. I've pulled the motor apart and haven't had any nasty carbon build-up. Also, re-packed the exhaust silencer, it was pretty nasty, but that may have been from the SI-7. So far I'm pretty happy with the H1-R other than the price. It costs about $23 a quart locally! It's better than having engine problems though! ;)
PS. I run pre-mix at about 37:1 as well as 1/2 oz. of Stabil Marine Formula in every 5 gal.
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You do have a point there I was using the si-7 when i noticed the carbon build up. The cyliders have been fine anything after (a mess) back in the day, that meant power valve and all were ugly.
I did live in california at the time and pump gas could have contributed to this,but never seen it with yamalube.
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hey sid, thanks for the pic....i like that...lmao...just wonder if i have the power yet for one...lmao........ i even asked the shop yesterday(that did sum work), said he made sure the exhaust was open..soooo, it had to either be the belray or the 3 bottles of motul 510 i have ran....that shop swears by belray.. imma switch something, dont want tjat again..
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It is all trial and error, whem you find one that you like, stick with it. I am using Fuch's Silkolene Scoot 2, and it seems good, mimimal smoke and no carbon build up. The next pull down will be the longest, so will see how it looks then.
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well, i am here again.. ::) anyway, i took an oem reed cage and "ported" it to see what happens.supposedly will work. :D i had finally gotten a tan ring last go round, put this "ported" cage back on and did a plug chop today....i wonder if having to tap/ride brakes a bit during chop will void the chop?????????????????????????? if not...then dam..no tan ring just now..all white/virtually unchanged.... :o :o ::) so i guess i am lean huh...YET AGAIN....NEVER ENDS. ::) ;D
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Good stuff batman, that sounds like you are getting more flow and need more fuel to suit. More power. A pain in the arse, but think of the results. :)
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hey sid, thanks...i was supposed to also "port" my oem intake also and try the shim trick in the needle today buuut.. question, im out of plugs. >:( tried once to rejet, still nothing on plug. only had 2 plugs..i know, but those 2 rthat are lean, can i put them in the spark plug cleaner(harbor freight ;D). and reuse them since vitually unchanged???????????????....i rejetted just now again, want to test it but parts store closed..im gonna try anyway, but will it work????...
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If there is no colour on the plug, use it for your next chop, if it comes out darker you will see it, if not you need bigger jet. I wouldn't try too much with raising the needle on the stock carb, it sounds like you are getting good improvement with what you are doing now.
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boy, its been quiet tonight. :D i used a reused plug for a chop: there was a tannISH color but dam near all over porcelin... also, im sure we discussed this but with a shim, will i need to check jetting also?? or will it be good since thats for the off idle setting type deal??? checked temp on phone at one point, 80' w/45% humidity, man she was running pretty dam good.... also did notice that instead of 20 mph to kick in, it went to 15.. why/how, idk tho.. maybe the 5.7s are headed on the right track(think i keep em in tho, want some 5s to try, dam some 6s ;D ;) maybe thats where im messing up, havent went LIGHT ENOUGH., been running 6.5s, now i got 5.7s..hmmm.... ??? ??? hey sid....thanks for the reply....what do you think about this plug??? brownish/tannish..
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The needle is more of a fine tune at this point and it sounds like a step in the right direction. This should help your take off whenn you hit the right weights. You could also try one more shim if it aint sputtering! just to know your limmit ;) I would do the same with your main push it till it sputters than drop back a hair that should help your top also. (not the mpg's so much though ;D)
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how does a brownish/tannish REUSED plug sound???????? not really a mix ring persey, alot of porcelin was colored
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More gas more power! ;)
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hey art, whats up?......ok, you may need to stop me before i get ahead of myself here.......anyway, this a.m i cut 2 shims for the needle, installed one of them..moved it up a tad(your right, with the non perfect surface hard to tell)..i installed that and did another chop with a reused plug..the shim, i dont think made any difference at all..take off, idle, anything, idk....the porcelin wasnt AS colored as last nights plug..would the shim lean it out some...imma go get a couple new plugs tho...since the reused plug wasnt as brownish as last night, go up more??????????..man, i about have it shaved to a .965.... what about the non change with the shim also?????
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WHOA......NEW SYMTOM!!!!!... art we may be on same page here..didnt know which thread to put this in, but NEVER had this till i started tunning carb again. ive had it "shut off" sortof downhill when wot like we spoke of.. but this time, i went to parts store,got a few plugs, coming back, running fine, BAM, "DIES", came back to idle, just fine, took off bck up hill, got to top,let off throttle,BAM, "DIES" AGAIN..2 in a matter of 1500-2000ft. ran fine coming the rest of the way.. maybe i should take out that shim?????? never happened that hardcore UPHILL at that. i thought fouled a plug,then idled,ran fine??????????????? is the shim messing me up??? same problem you just had aye art?????? too lean still at wot uphill??? plz read carefull..i may have jumped in with both feet ::) just changed plug for hell of it, about 5-6 miles shows a idk cond.? porcelin SLIGHTLY colored brownish, curved electrode a tad creamy on edge. a hair more??? w/o shim?? that flipped me out, seen a long ass push quickly >:( ::)
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Hmm I don't think the shim would affect you that much you are running it under the needle to lift it? It should be ritcher off idle. I'm thinking you need to go ritcher on the main. The shut down i was thinking because of a lean condition on the main,but when i pushed it the results wern't good ::) But with porting i would still think you need to go ritcher. Have you run it ritch enouph to uderstand what sputter is, kinda like trying to run with the choke on. For best result you want to be just under that condition.
There is the possibility now that you have some seafoam your gas filter or tank is clogged a bit from more crap breaking loose, so no fuel to carb :-\
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hey art, i took jet out AGAIN, and run the cleaner thru it..gonna do a plug test in few, if that dont work, imma go ahead and take it to the .965, dam near there now... i dont think the shim made a difference, but idk.. should i put the other in??????? well, maybe just one issue at a time... hope youll be around some. :D i only have 3 plugs....... i had gotten the sputter before when i was jetting.hoping to avoid going to big.. :D oh.....yeah, i slid needle thru shim and dropped into sleeve.so the shim is between the sleeve and needle. guess thats right... :D
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If you have the torch tip cleaners you don'd have to go to the next jump up,just use them like a file take a little at a time,but it does help to know what too much is.
Check your filter and petcock again also you got crud in there
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Another thought if you raise the needle too much it will sputter there also so once again try 2 if you aint sputtering you should be fine, if you are then you know the limmit :D
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teah, thats exactly how i been doing it, for the last 4 times >:( ::) idk if you remember but the .965 was to big then..i have the ported reed cage now, exhaust cleaned out from carbon,lighter weights, i am almost to the .965. trying to get a chop done but i keep having interferances. ::) :-\ well, she definately didnt sputter over the shim yet anyway.. i may want to just hang off on the 2nd shim a min. and try to jet 1st.. :D to much may overload my big ass. :D
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If you go too high with the needle it will sputter and struggle going off idle when you try to take off. That dying at speed sounds like starving for fuel, like art said, the seafoam dislodging gunk and it is being picked up by your filter. Are you getting better performance/top speed?
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damm, im out trying a chop now, she died/ acted like it again..why..wtf,, never done tis before gotta get?her home now..wth?????? im taking out shim and boring out jet,, wasted this plug
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didnt even get a qtr mile into chop and BAM!!!!...nothing till idle then just fine, limped her back home...you think to lean for this act??????????.... this is wigging, cuz i GOTTA have my top...take out shim?? making TOO lean???? gonna take carb off now, bb in a min..
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Check your fuel supply,no gas no go
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well, i took out shim, jetted to .965.. took off on ANOTHER plug chop....BAM, REALLY DIES, NO START, WALK HOME...TAAAA DAAAA, guess trying to moddify, now i am stuck....
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...dang..i've missed so much here.......
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fuel gotta be good....made it to my chop site and back once, this time no starty, really die fo sho
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this time no starty
..dang..everybody havin troubles...
..i rode 15 miles in th rain today...
..the last 5 were @ 15mph...
..i dried out my k&n, and im fixin to go try her out...
..pray for th' beastie in black...here we go!!!...
peace
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justvtook out this wasted plug, electrode creamy color, mix ring, mada..how can a .965 not have a freakn ring, waaaaay big....just pulled on vaccum line, gas shoots out fuel line w/vaccum.... shim was taken out for this last run,.....mayne just take out that reed cage???????????
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Got to go back to basics. spark to plug(nice blue) Is there fuel and does it flow at all times,air filter unrestricted. The things you have done should not kill it,it may not run good but no start .back to the basics! one of these things is missing from the picture.
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White creamy while upjetting air leak somewhere i'd think or way under jetted ??? . Try the other reed block, I Guess .Did it run with your ported one before?
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air leak somewhere
..back to that.......
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she started up, had to give gas..idle sh** right now....fuel dont flow at all times now, i have vaccum, remember. ;D took 3 kicks..... all was well tl todays jetting.....this is f***in me up here..went to end of rd fine, put in plug, died within a qtr mile 2 fkn times.....all at wot.....cant ride 35miles at 1/4 throttle why would an air leak show at wot but no other time....air leak???? new to me, i could be missing something tho.. ;)
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i figured id be over jetted by now....yp to .965 now, but cant do a chop, she dies within a qtr mile now everytime so far.. yeah, its been in for several days now.even rode with it in. started chops yesterday, still good, today started this crap..........
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Still think fuel delivery is suspect. did you read the fine print on the seafoam Ha! Probably don't have it on there. but it is recomended to change filter after use with tanks that have not been treated with it.
It will knock some thing loose in the tank and its got to go somwhere. If your fuel is restricted that would show as a lean condition also.
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the fuel filter???? dam i just put it in yesterday(seafoam)....the filter is full of fuel...how can you even check flow since on a dam vaccum release????????
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you were having this same issue last week before yours blew, correct???????
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Actually been haveing alot of little issues and That was the final outcome.I didn't shred it, but something to look at is your driven side(to the variater) I have some play there I did not have before and once up to speed I think this was allowing air to get in and that was my reason for not beeing able to top like i was before. I could still ride it but rather not have a complete meltdown. It will still do 55 mph just not worth pushing at the time.
If you are tuned right it should still run,unless something has realy gone ,but you should have heard or felt something. I think your fuel is the key here. Empty the tank blow it out,go through the pet cock again and carb.
On another note my generator had went out on me in the middle of this mess, so BASICS Must have the three ingredients to run SPARK,FUEL and AIR, If all this fails than you got a problem,but all this must be checked first and confirmed they work before you start a rebuild ;)
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Another thought the blockage could be in the tank around the mesh for the petcock or even one of your lines got to check close.
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what up guys??? well, i am trying to tinker with scoot...took of tank, recleaned, recleaned filter..looks good..lines are clear, fuel filter is clear and open............... tried to get more opinions thia a.m....... 1 was a carb issue, maybe upjet more?. may need to lean it out MORE????....... that kindof wigged me out...how would leaning more help?????????? 2nd was that the bowl could go dry and needed that time to recoup..told to run and AS SOON AS IT HAPPENED, unscrew bowl screw to see if dry.......ok, if thats the case, HOW could you correct that except with a bigger carb????????????..... could that ported reed cage even be capable of such a feat???? if that is the case, just put oem cge back on so it wont suck all the gas??? how would the bowl even go dry to begin with??? being so small with a too big jetting, to much inflow of air???
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This is what happens when you change too much at once :o I would go back to stock read cage and run in for a bit(assuming it will run) to make sure you have got the gas air and spark all in line and running fine ;) Once you are certain of that try the reed cage. One thing to keep in mind,I keep forgetting (that carb is small!!!). You may be at it's limmits!!!
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i wasnt doing to much at once....just changed rwed cage, went to upjet and whis started... so its possible the carb is maxed with the reed cage?????????? hmmmm, ran fine that day i put it on..THEN i saw it was lean and started jetting
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Well you kinda got several varioubles going on. Seafom,vacuum,possible air leak, reed change and jetting. So i would put it back to your last known configuration that was working and go from there.
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I think the reed cage was a good mod but the carb doesn't seem to be up to the new flow, can you get a larger carb of one of those parts scoots?
Hey art, what if he tried restricting his airflow at the filter instead of changing the cage again, that might give a better idea of what is happening without going backwards? Hang in there batman, it sounds like you are going in the right direction with that reed cage.
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:D well, yeah art i guess you do have a point there..didnt think about the seafoam, or fixing vaccum but now scotty(local shop,worked for scootervita) did tell me that by fixing the vaccum in the petcock that i actually hurt myself.....???????????? you wouldnt think by FIXING something that it would CAUSE a problem..... :D :D hey sid, thats the problem with those scoots, they BOTH are missing carbs(s9 needs carb, cdi), so thats out of the ?... ;D oh well, also the ppl and zx petcock are supposedly totally different. you wouldnt think the flow would be that much greater with the cage, after looking at those intake openings on the case. :D :D waaaay small opening there.. well after i seen a pic of a ported intake hole, its real dam small :D ;) cant stick pinky finger in oem opening, i dont even think a pencil would fit there.. :o bet my intake opening smaller than yours. ;D :D ::)
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That is a thought should work, the flat out dieing has me unsure whats going on, seems you need to handle that before trying to go to next step. It could be completly Unrelated to the cage. The fuel and vac is what i'm stuck on and it must be running with some reliability to test and know for sure..
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If the petcock has the same threads it will work fine from any other scoot,sometimes the threads are different. Here's is another thought try running with the gas cap off or loose,something I was going to try on mine before the bearing started to go.
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Got to run catch ya later
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well last night, it did start after it sat a few... this a.m started 1st kick before i started tearing things apart. ;D wanted to get further but went and did a side job for sum extra cash(get to go see kiss this sat), so i didnt finish with the scoot, gotta have it tomorrow tho. ;) oh yeah, i dont think theres a wobble on the variator side, tried to wiggle it
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Are KISS still going? I guess you gotta keep the accountants happy.
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:D :D :D yeah, they are STILL going....of course the opening act is a no name..wouldnt want to upstage kiss. :D :D seen em before but this may be last time ever( ozzy said that too ;) )..been slack this summer, only seen megadeth, testement,exodus, the big 4 show(megadeth, slayer, anthrax,metallica), lynyrd synyrd.. gotta love concerts..it brings the freaks out. :D ;D ;) ...gotta love the freaks. ;)
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oh sh**, i was using the permetex, form a gasket sealant #2. non hardening formula...does gas break it down,????? not suppose to...i have traces of sealer ON the ported reed cage.. even the gasket itself looked as tho it was gone, or more gooey...wth???
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I have only used no. 3, that is ok with petrol, used it on my base, reed mount and also on the carb insulator when I had the stock carb.
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Is the no.2 a brown sticky substance like a very thick liquid?
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its a very dark, almost black,gooey..comes out real gooey, never even dried on the intake, was suppose to get tacky, non hardening..its definately different than what was used on my air filter..i took a pic of the tube..maybe i can get word to post for me...unless i send to your cell phone. ;D or email it was spotty all over the cage, looked like it was gone from the gasket itself????????
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The stuff I use is sticky but that sounds a whole lot different. That sounds like the engine is pulling through the joint, what gasket are you using?
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It looks like your getting to the root of the problem now. My ears are still ringing from KISS'S last farewell show :P How many years ago was that? It was loud!!! ;D
Seems pulling air from the boot is your issue and kinda the same problem I was haveing except I was pulling it through the crank bearing same result (DIEING at speed) ::)
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i have the oem reed cage/ and intake gasket, think they are paper...i wondered if since it never "dries", if i did have a leak, then it just sucked it right back thru...correct???..well sh**, i cant even get to the kymco shop to get a new one anytime soon either, they even have sum cheap(athena) 5g rollers.. :D :D its actually 2 counties away, takes about 30-45min to get there driving... ywah, kiss has been going for quiet awhile. ;) should be good anyway..
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wonder if i do have a leak, reseal and try the ported cage again???????????....well, maybe not, need to make sure i guess..will have to fill up jet for the oem cage for sure tho....
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Re seal and give it a shot,Your kinda in the trouble shooting stage if it works great if not go back to your last set up. You need a running scoot to test anything from here on.
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yeah, i definately need a running scoot for sure!!!!!....... did notice my air filter has had more debris on it those last few days... must have been sucking more ;D ;) gonna try to get to parts store during lunch for a new tube of sealer, carb cleaner, a couple MORE plugs( maybe these wont get wasted)..i will run 1st tho to hope like hell she is ok. ;)
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I find you can reuse your plugs just clean them up,I lean condition will show over a carbon fouled or tan plug. Just want to get close than use your other new plugs for final,and if ya ever get that try an irridioum plug :o
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osed to withstand pressure, etc.. hope the sh** works, says itll dry in about an hr..idk, lets hope so.....i was trying to reuse plugs, i think sid had mentioned you could if lean to start with.....i got some blue pemetex gasket maker, supp
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It's gotta be better than the way things are at the moment :D
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aint that the dam truth..........waiting on jt to get back so i can go around and put her back together...i hope.....of course this blue sh** dont say a thing about heat, bbut it said pressure resistant, flexible,etc.. :D
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Not alot of heat right there. I think the blue and the black are pretty safe.
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got her all back together...been pacing the floor, getting antsy.. ;D wanna go try her out....been 1-1/2 hrs so far..
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..inspector!!..Itsa BAT POST!!!
;D
...this is the stuff....sid mentioned #3 but unheard of in these parts.....the pack said withstands all fuel, oil, etc.. non hardening formula..dam sure not like the stuff i used on my air filter....what to use??????? dont want to put back together yet, in case i do have a leak.. thanks man....... i need a pb16 carb(still oem but bigger than mine..lmao)..lol any idea where one could be???
"THE BAT" MAN!!
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...Indeed it is!!..annd Here's Another!!
..thiis is a pic of a ported intake...i want that...lol
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had to have an air leak on the reed cage gasket..could actually see a SMALL piece almost in front of cyl. thats gone, sooo a new cage gasket has to be gotten, as soon as i can get one(if in stock out there at dal kawa)..... hope the blue will be a good temp fix
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wordslinger, what up man??? thanks dude........IS THAT NOT A CRAZY ASS DIFFERENCE COMPARED TO MY OEM INTAKE???????????? SEE HOW SMALL MINE IS???? :o :o :o :o :o :o
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...wow....that IS a big difference........
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Mate, cut a gasket, take about 5 minutes. Is the blue one a silicon one? Maybe ultra blue?
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yeah, its permetex blue rtv silicone gasket maker, not ultra...
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No doubt buy some gasket makeing material,can't recomend a beer can here though ;D Get a raw sheet of something you'll be making more at this rate ;)
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that does sound like a good idea....... probably cheaper in the long run...
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Yep ;)
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Definately, I bought a sheet from Repco 250mm square, 0.8mm thick was $10, then at our local bearing place I found he had rolls 250mmx900mmx0.4mm for $4. I got two. This was how I adjusted the cylinder height after I made the spacer.
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what up fellas??....anyway, she didnt die out yesterday and i had tried to jet carb...i have went up, BUT since the temp dropped about 10-15 degrees this weekend, alot cooler here high like 75....is this where a smaller jet works??????..dont really know why...thought more gas=more power..smaller jet, scoot will be slower??????????? could that be why she stil showing a lean plug..i keep going bigger???? the plug even had traces of what looked like dried oil around the perimiter
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Running thats good :o You may not notice a difference in performance between lean and proper jetting,your trying not to burn your motor up!
Cold and humidity = less oxigen in the air= a ritcher fuel mix. Hot and dry = more oxigen in the air = a leaner fuel mix. You want to be somewhere in the middle and a little ritch if not perfect.
You have made changes to the intake and porting. I like to go bigger on the jets till it sputters then start stepping down.
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With mine, on these cold mornings, she splutters over 3/4 throttle until warmed up, have been tempted to down jet, but is ok after a few minutes so I just leave it as is, for now.
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thats just it...THERE ARE NO CHANGES ANYMORE...HAD TO GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE, REMEMBER... i jetted to .965, plug still as snow white as when i took it out of box..slower today too...even the fkn 5.7 rollers arent as revvy as 2 weeks ago..
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Hmm! Make sure you have oil flow to the mix. It don't quite make sense ??? Got to try to go ritcher if this is a constant result.
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already 2 size jets bigger with no results from the nice tan plug i had 2 weeks ago.... seriously, imma about to give up completely...STILL cant get any take off
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Your take off is controlled by air idle,pilot and needle,your main does'nt kick in till 1/2 throttle or more. Try to shut the thing down at wot for a plug check to see how your main is acting.
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uhhhh art...did you not read any posts??..i did 3-4 chops yesterday...each jet bigger, each plug snow white.....thats why i asked about going smaller on the jet, id say shed slow down with a smaller jet but dam, where did my nice plug go..that plug was snow white, shouldnt have been tho, WASNT 2weeks ago. .........if thats the case, then i will never have any take off..pilot non touchable.....a bigger carb may fix take off then...imma ruin this belt, could tell that today....BAD tug,jerks...
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oh sid, i almost forgot...i looked at that reed cage/intake link for the one you run.....i do like that alot BUT just like the one shaka runs, i still have the oem carb...those intakes wont accept my carb..i have a flanged out/wide with bolt holes...would be nice tho...shaka had said that the oem carb would bolt up buut idk how when your carb is held by a clamp(just like the air filter side), mines by a bolt.. dam nice price too. :D even cheaper than shakas but his came from mh.
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I wasn't sure if you did the chops at wot,my thoughts here are possibly really lean on needle and pilot,so it might be cleaning the plug once you let off the throttle.
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yeah, i did all chops at wot, shut her off. bam, snow white...a few weeks ago i had a good plug. this weekend has been in 70s instead of high 80s tho..dont really get the concept of "down jetting" tho either...thank the lord she hasnt died out yet. ;D when i was jetting tho, the fuel was free flowing even with a new petcock, didnt die out tho..idk ??? ??? ??? :-\ this sh** is getting so dam aggrevating dude, especialy since i cant drop $500 into parts and work,and labor for somebody to show me where im fkn up...now i cant even get her back close to right..never been right but dam, i was getting close..i think anyway, probably not since my scoot is the only one on earth that has always had sh**ty takeoff. ::)
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??? :D Ha! Wish you were close, all i can say is If it shows lean bigger jets, double chek the oil flow!!!
Try putting a few more miles on those plugs to see how they burn in. Seems something is missing just can't tell over the interweb ::)
I hear ya on the aggrivation But it go's with the modding got 5 I'm dealing with and never seem to be satisfied,just got to keep trying :P What ya realy need is a backup scoot! makes it a little more talerable when one is down.
Just to back track seems the problems started with the petcock and the seafoam,all that should be taken care of at this point so, Something going crazy with the what? Guessing air or electric. To make things run too lean I would have to say air flow or vacuum. Maybe try choking down your air filter? Carb just cant keep up with demand?
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just seems crazy that the jet from 2 weeks ago was good, now almost 2 sizes BIGGER and still snow white plug, dont even see how she is running cuz before, at THIS jet she bogged hard,ran slow,sh**ty....i only wish i had a aftermarket carb/intake, reed cage..the plug WAS good, nothing has been changed....i have the 14mm carb, was better than this. cant tune it much anyway but at least i had a nice mix ring, not a snow white plug..??????????? of course i didnt have any vaccum fron the petcock but sh**, it stopped her from dying out evidently....idk about that crap either, but i have to have sone vaccum somewhere or the dam thing wouldnt run, i wouldnt think...
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Gday batman, you can get that inlet with a carb for $125. With the plug, still try upjetting, if it is not bogging then you can keep going. Does it break down at high speed? I have 50mm piston, 24mm carb and 4reed cage, my take off is still crap, word and art are getting as good or better, yes, I know frustration.
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good morning sid....i thought i had seen a carb in one of those sets, i do think a 21+mm carb would be way to big..im thinking 17 would be good.......thank the lord you have sh**ty take off sid.sorry but at least maybe i am not too dam crazy...dont see how tho with those mods.........shaka and z swore they both had great takeoff.........is/was your exhaust port taco/halfmoon shaped??????? shaka had said his was round, the zx dont have the taco yshape...MINE DOES....04 model,..maybe the intake opening is our problem?????? yeah, this does get soooo dam frustrating these days, a back up scoot may help tho.. ;D see thats whats getting me........why can i get so big on a jet today but 2 weeks ago, that jet would bogg it down, but not today and no changes to it......THAT PART ALONE IS BOGGING MY MIND.....HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE???????...NO MODS to need a BIGGER jet... no sid, she didnt die out at all yesterday, thankfully.. yeah, oil flow i guess is good, dam sure leaving the tank anyway ;D
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G'day batman, have you tried upjetting to the point of bogging since doing your reed cage, I wonder if that would make a big enough difference? If you have a spare jet drill out the one you are playing with and keep going until you start to bog, if need be, you can put your spare in until you adjust the other, though I know it is a royal pain with those stock carbs. A 19mm carb might do you well and still be useable if you do go with a cyl. kit in the future. Zombie and Shaka had a lot better quality gear than I have and they also had good quality variators and clutches. I don't remember if my stock cylinder had a round exhaust port or not, I know the outside is round but don't recall the inside shape, my current one is oval inside, round outside.
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If you are getting a better airflow, you will be able to go up in jet size.
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i had changed everything back to before..got the oem cage in and all.. thats the head scratcher????? everything back to before.. air flow should be like before, have the ported cage in hand.....idk??????? today is going to be around 81, maybe they will be a difference today.... i do wanna put the ported cage back in tho....oh, i wonder if my intake would fit your reed cage, then at least i could have a 4 petal cage untill i can get a bigger carb, if i can get the leanness out of my carb anytime soon...
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I will have a look tomorrow and see if it will fit.
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well, it did seem to run a tad better today, it was around 82?? still dont know how jet could need bigger tho i think. but still wasnt right, i dont think.... also going uphill today(different than normal hills i take), this was a long hill, faurly steep, but i have traveled before.....but id swear there was aone sort of "surge" going on..going you could tell rpm drop, lets say 750, after i moment or 2, you could feel the rpm pick up amd tell by the sound.. a weee to a waaaaa to a weee to a waaaa, but a steady speed throughout..wtf is that??? first thing i thought of was cdi, but it never missed a lick during this but i wouldnt have thought fuel, (get a extra shot of gas every 45 seconds uphills???? :D ::) did get a phone call earlier today, telling me they found a ol homeboy/crime partner murdered yesterday a.m dumped off the parkway...DAMNITT MAN!!!. that was a crazy phone call there.. :o :o thought he was gonna do better after sissy o.d.ed, guess he fell again. :-\
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Sorry to hear of the loss of your mate, seems the older we get the more people we see go.
I have just had a crazy thought, it will sound strange but have you got the hoses on the right connectors on the fuel tap?
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telling me they found a ol homeboy/crime partner murdered yesterday a.m dumped off the parkway
..said a prayer...
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what up fellas? thanks for the kind words an prayers...yeah, 2 guys in jail now, they set him on fire after when they dumped him and the animals got to the other side so dawn had him cremated, dam bitch there.bo s mama is pissed over all that with dawn too. ;) i would be too, thats her son sh**...... anyway, no body had any ideas on the we wa sound???????... still done it today uphills, its weird..it sux......whats up on downjetting the carb????? wouldnt that make it slower again??..how could downsizing ever make it right??? my carb is still off somehow......imagine that huh?!?!? ;D any ideas??...seems like a power surge for lack of better terms. you can actually FEEL the difference half the time. can always hear the difference...rpms drop some, then you can feel those rpms come back,with the powerloss then fall out again...a steady speed throughout this tho?????? carb jetting, cdi?????
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...wow...i don't know what else to say....
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yeah, crazy sh**.
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..peace to you bro..
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Damn How much sh** can happen in such a short time span. I know it aint easy but try to keep your head straight. There's going to be better times! Take care man!
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sh**, i gotta keep it somewhat together;D i have a lil girl out there to help raise. ;D ;) a few short yrs ago, id never thought id say those words. :D ;D
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Awsome!!!
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..agreed...
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now..if i could figure this scooter stuff out before i end up throwing it across the yard.. :D :D well maybe a hammer, it is pretty heavy. :D :o
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Ha! I didn't want to jump right in to it ,figured you needed a moment to breath.(Damn!)
My best uneducated guess would be electrical. Seems you have coverd all the bases elsewhare.Not my strong point!!! but have seen this happen. The problem I don't know how to test these things properly. Cdi,coil, stator.But if air and fuel have been eliminated as the cause its all thats left!!!
For me i had spares to swap till i found the stator was the only thing left.
Might want to pick up a multi meter and look at some old posts for tests. This is one area I suck at :-[
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yeah, even trying some different oil and they couldnt even explain how my jetting could go lean even when 2 SIZES bigger now.. will try once more to upjet and then imma try a downjet????. dont understand that at all but the dam air/temp/humidity dropping has to be an issue somewhere/somehow...idk????....did have an idea thrown at me with the rpm variation: the oil injector is going out, and cant mix properly???????...wth?? injector??, pump, yeah.. but she dam sure uses the oil. :D so i wouldnt think an oil issue.....
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..feel your pain...
..it ran well this morning, a bit slower than last night, but in a head wind..
..however, i wish i had chopped this plug at wot...
..damned if it didn't feel lean at @ 58 degrees this mornin'..
..the chops on the c8hsa plugs llast night looked spot-on...with a 102 jet..
..rained all the 17 miles home this afternoon, sssso...
..tomorrow is another day, as i can't tune on wet roads..
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If your plugs are still showing lean I can't see going down in jets. A coil burning too hot could be an issue.
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Still sounds like an air leak. Could it be a leak that is closing that is causing the rev change?
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That would be my first guess ??? seems to have gone over it several times. I have had elecrical act like this but it usually don't last to long before something go's out completly :-\
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well i remember when word, shaka had mentioned going down in jet size. word talks about different jets for different seasons, so i was wondering about that being an issue...i hate riding her but i have no choice but ride and now with that rpm change crap uphill...nasty belt tug these days...i guess its belt tug: can feel it jerk/hit different shift patterns then at 15-17 shell take off...i am wondering if i dont feel tug AND slippage..cvt was closer 2 weeks ago also. guess i need to take shroud off and check for a leak..never found one yet. could i spray the oil seals after running and see????(if i can get belt cover off while running).. i figured id try once more, then i guess just ride till she blows...idk.. cant even tune anymore if this is not corrected.... :-\ :P :-[ >:(
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G'day batman, that with the revs creeping up and down, you don't suppose that could be the belt slipping do you? Under load it slips and then grips, while your speed stays the same your revs change, as it gets worse, your speed will be affected more. Think of a slipping clutch in a car. When I bought my Hilux, in top gear, if you put your foot down the revs would increase but the speed would only increase slowly. Just a thought.
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good morning sid...well i wouldnt think the belt. when im going uphill, all seems fine then rpms drop a bit (lets say about 750, no tach), every few seconds you can hear rpms jump back to where they should be, then drop the 750 again, then pick it back, then drop. it feels and sounds like she gets a shot of gas/oil/??? and corrects for a second then again. speed seems to stay correct/steady, just rpm change..can hear change, sometimes actually feel the change, like a "power surge" of sorts...idk..didnt do this before either.. ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ??? ::) ::) ???
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Oh, ok, if it was slippag then the revs would go up not down, maybe crud in your carb, but that would not be as consistant in the change. Sorry i can't help with this. Do you have another carb you can try?
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i wish i did. :D love to find a 16-17.... yeah, this seems to be a gray erea for everyone. ;D ..makes me miss shaka and zombie even more with their zx knowledge. :-\ ???
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Did you check your cdi bridge? making/breaking contact might give that effect.
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actually i never did since the dying out had stopped with the petcock change...the cdi has entered my mind but i way suck with them meters.. ::)
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What about just checking the bridge you used for the rev limiter? maybe the rev limiter is coming in sometimes.
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this new issue, i dont think is limited, feels like a surge of power/torque for a few seconds(making it correct, then rpm fall a tad again,then correct, then down, then correct). flats seem to be ok, just can tell on a hill with this.
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You got a crazy thing going on and with out seeing and hearing it's hard to say because fuel ,air or electronics can have the same effects ??? Need to try some tests,like what happens if you run with no air filter? Try resetting your float? Check your bystarter,pull and clean? Not sure what to do next ???
The lean condition on the plug points to air leak ??? Not enouph fuel being delivered ??? Not enouph Oil ??? crap in the main jet ??? The tank,the gas cap is vented properly?
If the basics don't get it I'm back to electonics.
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Sure sounds like an air leak. could it be something going bad in the carb like a gasket or diaphram? I'd also suspect the cylinder base gasket among the things you're already suspecting. Hard to catch a leak in the act unless lucky. Need leakdown tester, best. Yeah, try rubbing or spraying thick oil or something like an aerosol light grease on suspected sights. Check while kicking and/or running and/or right after shut off.
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i dont know either...i am so dam ready to hit this fkr mutiple times with a hammer its unreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......runs like sh** but she runs..even my neighbor could tell a difference in the sound!!!...oh yeah, motul 800 oil will grime up a pipe quickly and harshly!!!.. when i first start her up and take off: THAT'S THE BEST SHE'LL RUN THE WHOLE DAY, goes downhill from there...anyway...how long can i idle her w/o shroud on??? guess i need her hot as hell to see if a leak with head/base gasket again.......i am soooooo losing interest in these scooters, cuz i am always stumped...going back to wondering if a brand new 150cc shoulda been bought...$1300 in this total and runs like ass...can by a brand fkn new 150 for 599......................,.........
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oh yeah, evidently NOBODY has ever heard of DOWN jetting....asked around town after noone hear heard of it either...i must be totally whacked out then i guess..
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Nah, dont give up now, you will get it sorted out, just gotta stick with it.
With mine, they wanted $1600, I knocked him down to $1300, I offered 1200, but he didnt like that, grumpy salesman. Have you checked vacuum lines?
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hey sid..well i only have the one vaccum line.. seems to be good...of course didnt have any vaccum with my new petcock the day i installed it............lmao, sid thats from labor, parts, mods, NOT the scooter. all that money and im still stock cyl. and runnin like ass(to me)... :'( :'(
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Yeah, sorry, I didnt think about that, short of going eor the crank seals you might need to go over all your gaskets. Are you still running you ported reed cage? That wouldnt be cracked would it?
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Hey batman, did you get pm?
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well fellas, i am being blessed today...got everything back together last night.. with the modified oem exhaust pipe...went on a chop, a darker brown mix ring!. ;D ;D ;D came back home, installed ported reed cage and i ported my intake(to match gaskets), went on chop #2, still have a darker brown mix ring(did lighten up this time 1 shade). so that means i am on the ritcher side of things correct??? which is a good thing, correct???. or should i downjet a tad???..my mix screw is still set at 1 turn out.......now, this may be for art since he has done the shim... :D should i go ahead and put a shim back in my needle?????..
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With your ported reed cage it is a shade lighter, indicates that you are getting a better air flow. Hooray, you are back on track, a little rich is good, how does it run? If it runs well leave the jet until you get your ex. back. I knock off in a couple hours and will try to do that carb test then. Congrats mate, you finally got a win.
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thanks sid... I DID GET A WIN TODAY!!.....WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!!!!..... ;D ;D ::) even if i am the ritcher side of things, i feel so much better now, wish i had some rollers tho. :D ;) thinking some 5.5 or some 5s......supposeldly i have 5.1s on the way from malossi, which sux ass btw....... man, sid i do wish i knew if a 19mm would be overkill or not on my current setup,......
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..batdude...what was it you were talking about with the jets on that other thread..
..I'M HERE!!!
;D
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I reckon you would get away with a 19mm carb, just need to jet to suit.
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hey sid, word..... well remember sid, i am still with the STOCK cyl. thats why i was wondering if overkill w/a 19. could give me PLENTY of room, you'd think. :D.... hey word, yeah you had mentioned there about going up in jets when cooler weather.... here, the temp/humidity has dropped around 15-17 degrees... but today i had a win with her..i am 2 jets bigger right now(vs 2-3 weeks ago) and i have a darker brown ring WITH the modded oem pipe(rs getting welded). soooooo maybe you WERE on to something over there. :D :D she may be slower, im used to a leaner plug not a ritcher one, I SURE HOPE NOT.. pretty dam sure she likes a lean condition, always had good top,even you said leaner runs better........ is the mix screw still good at 1 out????????...
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..all scoots "like" a slightly lean condition...it is faster...
..but too lean is a disaster...at it's worst, and you don't want to burn a piston...
..until you really get a feel for it i always say..
...DON'T RUN LEAN!!!...LOL..
..a really rich condition will cause your scoot to lose power at WOT..it'll feel like it's "falling forward"
..a really lean condition will cause excessive rpms at WOT and may sound "airy" or weak...
..at your fastest speed..running flat-out..if your scoot seems to sound more quiet, then you've probably got it a bit too lean...
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..again, i'm really speaking about 4ts..it's where i have mymost experience chopping..
..but i do know that plug chops are much more responsive and easier to read on a 2t...
..dunno why that might be, other than the oil mix...
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maybe you WERE on to something over there
..just think of it like this...
..colder air (oxygen) is more dense (thicker) than hot air...
..it's molecules are closer together...
..when air gets hotter, it's molecules spread further apart..(hot air baloon rises in the cool morning air)
..with "thicker" air, it is necessary to increase fuel, in order to keep the mix ratio in check...
..and with a free-flow air filter, the density of the air inducted greatly affects how much fuel is needed to keep the mix right...
..it's a battle when the temps vary 30-40 degrees in a day, as they can here where i live...
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Well explained wordslinger, I have a better idea now. You are right, a 4 stroke engine runs cleaner, so you woule need a longer run. Batman, I did the check and the stock inlet wont fit on the reed cage, will put up some pics when I get to the computer. Wow, that stock carby is TINY.
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..thanx sid...
..i've been battling spring and fall around here for a cpl years...
..and i thot i'd kinda gotten a handle on it...
..but this opened exhaust has thrown a bit of a curve...
..guess i'm still learning too!!!...
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Yeah, more air flow good, but more effect from changing weather conditions.
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..YUP!!!..
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..and this forum is frikin awesome..
8)
..i learn..SomeThing!! every time i'm here...
:o
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Righto batman, here are the pics, bear in mind this has been used for work and is dirty, hasn't been washed yet, won't happen until the end of the week, (she's a work horse, not a show pony). :)
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...sid!!...
..NICE PICS!!!
..where th' hell's th dirt!!
:o
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must be a crafty camera man, even cut out the dirt without even noticing, yeah, it's there, just out of sight. I took some other pics for a bloke on ZX50 board about removing the body, I think they show some grime. :D
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:o :o well then.... :D and thats the way it is.. ;) so if it gets any hotter than this week, she is gonna bog cuz of being even ritcher???. come spring time gonna have to downjet a tad??.. you are the closest to me here. :D even tho im alot higher, which i guess even frkn altitude comes into play somehow.. i do hope(maybe),that the rs pipe leans it a tad tho.. the last mix ring i had was about 5-6 shades lighter than the one i have now, and she ran pretty good with that faint mix ring. the ring now is a darkish brown(which i assume is on the line of being to big)???????..
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..yup...air is thinner at higher altitudes...
..and your kinda up there, compared to the rest of us....
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well dam...thanks sid...yeah, that intake wouldnt accept my pissy ass carb. dam, i need the lottery. :D
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yeah, thats for sure, so what do you do for THINNER air??????......
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so what do you do for THINNER air
..decrease jet size...
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I forgot how small the stock carb was, when I pulled it out of the box and unwrapped it the first part I saw was the throttle body, I couldn't even get my little finger in there. I got used to the 24mm jobby.
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You got it going now batman, just leave it until you get your pipe back on, then I would ride a couple of days to see how she reacts. I remember the stock carb as being a mongrel to get at the jets, that coupled with having to drill out/solder up would be an excercise in frustration. But you must be imune to that now? :D
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But you must be imune to that now?
..i mean...lol.. FOR REAL!!!..
;D
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for sure...my sh** is tiny, as you know. :D even the ppl/s9 come with a 16mm, i have to have a 14. >:( :-\ oh well huh, at least its a kymco!. ;D 8) ;) man, now i am hoping my rs pipe leans it a touch, a few shades anyway., just a shade or 2. ;) :D :D yeah sid, it is a pain but yeah, it dont take me but a few minutes now to take off, jet, replace, start. ;D ::) it shouldnt take me long as many times i have taken it off...i had to replace the bolts and nuts on the carb yesterday, done messed em up with so muxh off an on. :D ::)
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But you must be imune to that now? ..i mean...lol.. FOR REAL!!!.. ;D
:D :D i know thats right!!... :D ::)
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What I meant by that was the frustrations you have had, doing the jetting would be a relief. If the people / S9 have a 16mm carb you might be able to hit up art for one? He's a people person, Sorry wordslinger, I only borrowed it. ;D
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He's a people person, Sorry wordslinger, I only borrowed it
..lmao...i'd share with everybody...lol
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oh yeah, he did have a modded one awhile back....hmmm......, well, its not like i have the spare cash yet this week... :-\ ::) oh i understood what you meant sid, it is a pain in the ass. :D
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hey word, so you mean that the closer winter gets, the jetting will lean out more?????
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Ha! I do have an almost complete people carb. I had to cut the throttle cable out of the top cap,not sure if the zx cap fits the people. If it does I'd need a little something for it.Shipping + $20 ;)
The colder it gets + moisture there is less oxigen in the air. less air = ritcher condition.
Don't dwell on it at this point get tuned the best you can while all is working.
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The colder it gets + moisture there is less oxigen in the air. less air = ritcher condition
...not sure about the moisture factor, but cooler air contains more cfm of oxygen than warm air...
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i can go snap a pic if word will post so you can see if the same cable setup.....
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I dont think the cable would be a problem, but the throttle slide would be larger.
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Ha! it gets tricky but to my knowledge, when Colder there is less burnable oxigen availible,usualy colder do to more moistere in the air. Now i'm sure some one other than me could explain it more scientificly. But we always downjetted for the cold winter rides and up for summer with the dirt bikes and it did make a difference.
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I do have the slide Just the cap is toast ;D. I think it's a 16mm but not sure,have also tapped the attomizer for the keihn 7mm jets i believe.
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i may have missed somethin just now....now word, the way you say, you need to UPJET with cooler temps, but art just said, cooler air makes it ritcher, which would mean DOWNjetting, correct..... this sounds like a contridiction, unless i have missed something.......
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Two schools of thought.
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How Temperature, Altitude & Humidity Affect Carburetor Jetting
The carburetor’s sole purpose is to deliver the correct mixture of fuel and air to the engine. Sounds simple enough, right? Unfortunately, one of these variables, air, changes depending on the weather. As temperatures rise during the heat of the day the air molecules spread further apart and the air becomes less dense with fewer oxygen molecules in a given volume of air. Similarly, as altitude increases the air density decreases. Humidity, water molecules in the air, also displace oxygen molecules. These changes in air density can have a profound affect on carburetor jetting. Lets examine these factors in more detail assuming we started with a perfect air-fuel mixture.
Temperature
As the air temperature increases, the air density falls. This will make the air-fuel mixture richer. Why? Less oxygen content in the air but no change in the amount of fuel being supplied by the carburetor. In order to regain the perfect air-fuel mixture its necessary to "jet down" (chose smaller jets) to compensate for the lower air density. Conversely, cooler air temperatures will necessitate more fuel i.e. larger jets.
Altitude
Generally speaking as altitude increases the air density decreases. This will require smaller jets to compensate for the lack of oxygen content at higher altitudes. Less oxygen and less fuel means less power. Having less power is not something racers warmly embrace. High altitude race engines often employ much higher compression ratios to make the most of the "thin air".
Humidity
Humidity, water molecules in the air, also displace oxygen molecules making the air less dense. This will make the air-fuel mixture richer and will require smaller jets to compensate for the lack of oxygen content in the humid air.
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Being a vacuum situation, would the moisture vapourise giving increased intake?
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well as you would know i spoke before i thought, because i am 2 jets bigger right now than 3 weeks ago, when it was ALOT warmer.....hmmmm........ WHOA!.... now THAT is a summary for you... ;D ;) thanks word.........i like it when i can read it or watch it done..... imma have to go stalking word so i can watch him tune his. :o :o just for educational purposes of course. ;D ;) tow my scoot so he can tune the cvt.... :D ::)
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..i think what this illustrates is that there is no "magical combination"..to jetting for cold weather..
..or any weather, for that matter...
..it rains dang near every day where art lives..
;D
..my grass is dead...
:-\
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Plug Chops
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Plug Chops
..there it is...
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Ha! see. Glad you can type :D But it does cause more confusion ;D But for race conditions it makes perfect sense. But somewhere there is a happy medium. In the heat even though less dence they are more ready to burn than cold molicules. Kinda like spontainious combustion.
Once a fire is hot it can consume more but may take a little bit to hit that point.(worm up)
But if you have ever started a fire that doesn't draft right it just sits and smokes and does nothing to convert the fuel into energy Ha! Where a'm I going with this ;D (for another beer!) So for most us you don't want to run to lean I guess thats the point but under the perfect conditions it's realy what you want.
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Plug Chops
done today.....on the ritcher side of life right now. will see what she looks like after reinstall of rs pipe.... oh, sh** i cut grass EVERY week...good and green here. :D
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Where a'm I going with this (for another beer!)
..me too brother!!
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Hmm, poorer side for me, for now, anyway.
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well fellas, be careful what you wish for.. :D i put my pipe back on(its the next r chrome,i think i said rs earlier). she definately leaned her out some..about 3-4 shades lighter now.. i have a light color/tan ring now, instead of the dark brown. since it will get cooler out, shoukd i tap the jet a bit?? or just wait till next month when it does drop????.... i need some 5g rollers i think.. :D
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Tan sounds good, I would leave it there for now. How is it running?
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its fairly breezy here today but she seems to be running ALOT better now. i did pick up those 2-3mph from yesterday, so i guess the pipe is still better than the modded oem.. :D of course the cvt is still off..thought i had a set of 5s coming but i dont. :-\
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Yep leave alone get some rides in ;)
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If you are happy with the engine as it is, start playing with the cvt.
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shew.. :D i like that idea. :D :D do need some lighter rollers i think
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You could always try Shakas idea and drill them.
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could be an idea, but i never knew where, how it was done.. thru the material and metal or just the metal????... sounds techy but easy at the same time.. :D
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You just want to remove some of the inner metal,wiegh them with your digi scale make them all the same ;)
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i dont think i have anyway to remove the metal bushing to do that....i know some more pricey ones do come apart somehow.
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Find a drill bit that doesnt quite fit through it. And drill it.
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Should be able to do it with a dremmel. i've done it with a drill bit but the friction will heat the plastic up quik the weights will come right out than ;D (not the best way but works)
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Noted, do not drill!
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oohhhhhh, you mean lay em down and drill out the whole hole w/like a 3/8ths bit...i was thinking a pilot hole around the outside to the inside.....
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Drilling does work!!! It's just not pretty,but its free ;) It's just hard to keep the inner from spinning against the outer and the plastic is a bit brittle. Can be done in a pinch. You want to lay them flat if you drill the plastic I don't know for sure what will happen it's brittle may weeken it.
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Gota run catch ya later
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You could always try Shakas idea and drill them.
..i had some 9 gr rollers, that i knocked the weights out of ..
..i can now drive in any of my tuning kit's weights to dial in my variator...
..which i did, and am running 4.52 gram rollers as a result...
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you knocked out the metal, took the material/plastic part and use as a skin on others????? a double layered roller??.
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..not double layered..
..the tuning kits have metal weights, and two-pieced "plastics" that fit around them...
..with the sets i have, the weights will fit perfectly in the "shells" i made when i drove the weights out of those 9 gram rollers..
..outside th' box!!...lol..
;D
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:D :D oouuutsiiiiidde the box..... i have yet to get a kit. :-\
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..this is mines..
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the one on the right looks like the pricey one i think at provo.... a helluva kit you got going on....
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...areomyst hooked me up with a good deal on these...
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ahhh...always good to know somebody high up... :D :D i bet he is bad ass, sounds good anyway... id like to watch in that shop some. ;)
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..yeah, me too..i got my eye on a S9....
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S9 would be nice need some info for that one ;D
Bat if you find a bit a little larger than your hole the friction will spin the metal and heat it up to a point you can pull them out and do the same thing. The outers are brittle though so got to be gentle or it can crack the plastic once you got them out you can do what you want with them. Just try to keep them balanced so they dont wobble when you re install
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With carb jetting on CV carbs..
NEVER CHANGE THE pilot jet / PAJ leave it to stock.
Always start off with the main jet for the best top
Change your main jet till you have the highest top speed (GPS) test this on the same day and road.
Once you have your main jet set to the best top speed its needle and spring adjustment.
Now adjust your needle height. If your needle isnt notched for adjustment you can only adjust the needle with shims of .010 these are thin shims usually found with hobbyist in the RC field.
Once you have your needle set now adjust your spring for quick throttle response. Some and most will say to cut the spring DONT cut the spring rather use wire to hold coils of the spring together. Usually 4-6 coils being tied together will allow the slide to open faster for quicker throttle response.
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That is good info, I will try that with the GPX. I think this fellow was tuning a 2 stroke carb.
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I can confirm! Do not adjust the pilot! ;D Had no benifit and now need to turn the air idle screw way too far out.. Like the spring idea. An added thought for you guys take the slack out of your throttle cable also so you can get every bit of the twist.
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I can confirm! Do not adjust the pilot! ;D Had no benifit and now need to turn the air idle screw way too far out.. Like the spring idea. An added thought for you guys take the slack out of your throttle cable also so you can get every bit of the twist.
You will notice a great increase in throttle response if you coil up the spring to where the slide opens quicker. I will take a piece of 18gauge wire, strip it to where I just have the copper strands, cut in length about 1" take about 3-4 strands. Coil up 5 rows and twist the wire to hold the coils together (shortening the spring) and do the same for the opposite side so the spring is even.
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hey fellas, im not sure about a cv carb....i have a pa. :D now i do wonder about this trick tho... no cutting the cable, just tie up the spring??????? i did have one shim in once for my needle but didnt see any sort of difference(can shim). should i try 2??...
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No good batman, he was talking about a four stroke carb, using the vacuum slide, less tension on the spring, the slide opens quicker.
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POP!!..... there went that bubble :D ::)
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The point is get your main dialed first than play with the rest to fine tune your throttle response and what not.(This does apply to both) People would cut the return spring for the carb but theres no going back after that.
Hey Bat I still got that carb for ya. I did tap the attomizer(needle holder) what ever it is. Jets will be different I'll send one that works with it. If it's a problem let me know. It was dialed for one of my peoples 50's at one time ::) don't remember what stage :D but should be good. P.M. me If you want any other info or pieces for that parts people 50 2t (Belt) and I'll try to get it out this week. Been busy :P
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NEVER CHANGE THE pilot jet / PAJ leave it to stock.
..agreed...there should be enough adjustment in any 4t oem CVK carb for idle mix adjustments...
..i opened my pilot jet....just barely...and now i must run the idle mix screw just slightly off completely closed....
..another one of those crazy experiments....
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Here's a pic Let me know if you need it.
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what up fellas? long time no info on this thread.. ;D anyway, got a ? that is starting to bug me....i cant seem to keep a good constant idle..varies anywhere from 500-1000rpm. i can lean it to the right(just idling in driveway), and the idle DROPS HARD. can lean to the left and the idle jumps to 2500-2700.. got a lond return to idle again, thats been happening for a min now tho.....again.. ;)... any ideas on this???????.. i got a new toy in the mail, i finally got my tach and now i can see the #s.. my rpms were off compared to the tachs rpms...hmm, imagine that.. any help will b greatly appriecated.......
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Hi, bat. So good to hear you got your tach. Do you love it?? I bet you do!! I'm thinking about one too. :D