Author Topic: Possible to access air/fuel mix screw on Agility 125 with only seat well out?  (Read 9563 times)

AgilityOnAnRV

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I'm working my way through some possible solutions to the surging issue that I've been having on my Agility 125 and I'd like to experiment with richening my air/fuel mix slightly. I replaced my fuel filter today and took off the seat well in doing so. I'm totally new to engine work and took a cursory glance at the carburator while it was visible, but I didn't see anything that looked to be the air/fuel mix screw. (I did find the idle set screw.)

Is it possible to access or see the air/fuel mixture screw on the carb by only pulling the seat well? How can I go about accessing the screw?

Thanks!

*I'm pretty sure that my language is more descriptive, but in saying "seat well" I'm referring to what the Kymco service manual call the "met in box."

baddi

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I dont really know, if the agility 125 is diffrent from the agility 50, when it comes to how the carburator is build, but with the 50-version, the screw is made of brass and placed on the left side of the carburator. Be carefull not to tighten it, as these screws have very fine threads and will be harmed if you are too harsh.
On the Agility 50, there are a hole on the left side of the scooter (when all shields and seat are on) right over the passenger foot support, and through this, you can access the mixture screw, if you have a long necked flat screwdriver. :)

But remember, that the mixture screw are only dominating when you are idling or at very little throttle. When giving more throttle, things like the shape and height of the needle are meaning more, and when at full throttle, its only the main jet, which are active. (Well not true, but the other parts are made for passing very little fuel at very low throttle, so the main jet is dominating) :)

On the picture below: the axis going left to right is how much throttle is given and the axis going up is the flow of fuel, compared to the flow of air.
Dark blue = mixture screw, light blue = idle jet, yellow = needle diameter, Orange = needle height, red = conic shape of the needle and white = main jet.

I don't know, if the design of your carburator is diffrent, but on the agility 50, the needle cant be adjusted, and it is only possible to fine tune at idle and Wide Open Throttle.
First Kymco agility 50 (2008) 11.000+ km (dead)
Second kymco agility 50 (2010) 20.000+ km. Project Fuel Injection. Stolen.
Kymco K-pipe 125 (2014) 7400 km.

zombie

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You can get to it with a small tip "stubby " flat head screw driver. It is on the left side just below the intake manifold height. Maybe a small mirror will help you see it.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

AgilityOnAnRV

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I dont really know, if the agility 125 is diffrent from the agility 50, when it comes to how the carburator is build, but with the 50-version, the screw is made of brass and placed on the left side of the carburator. Be carefull not to tighten it, as these screws have very fine threads and will be harmed if you are too harsh.
On the Agility 50, there are a hole on the left side of the scooter (when all shields and seat are on) right over the passenger foot support, and through this, you can access the mixture screw, if you have a long necked flat screwdriver. :)

But remember, that the mixture screw are only dominating when you are idling or at very little throttle. When giving more throttle, things like the shape and height of the needle are meaning more, and when at full throttle, its only the main jet, which are active. (Well not true, but the other parts are made for passing very little fuel at very low throttle, so the main jet is dominating) :)

On the picture below: the axis going left to right is how much throttle is given and the axis going up is the flow of fuel, compared to the flow of air.
Dark blue = mixture screw, light blue = idle jet, yellow = needle diameter, Orange = needle height, red = conic shape of the needle and white = main jet.

I don't know, if the design of your carburator is diffrent, but on the agility 50, the needle cant be adjusted, and it is only possible to fine tune at idle and Wide Open Throttle.

Thank you, that's some seriously fantastic information. In light of what you said about the mixture screw, do you have any thoughts on what might be causing the surging that I've been experiencing? It only happens at WOT around or slightly above 50 MPH. It does not happen at WOT below that speed, and the scoot can maintain ~50 MPH without surging if I back slightly off of WOT.

Separately, I read something on another forum implying that changing the jet needle position might help. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 04:13:31 AM by AgilityOnAnRV »

zombie

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I don't think it is the idle mix screw. That is more of a Main jet/fuel filter/air filter problem. Do the basics... Plug/fuel/air filters. It could also be cvt issues (rollers) but I would start at the beginning. Add 2-3 oz's of sea foam to try to clean the jets too. Two -three tanks full with sea foam will get rid of most varnishes/sludge in the fuel bowl.
I have also seen fuel lines de laminate due to Ethanol in the fuel. I would.nt hurt to replace the fuel line with a Marine grade replacement.
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zombie

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one more thing. Pull the cap off the top of the carb. The diaphragm inside should be near flat. If it is all wrinkly, and swollen it needs to be replaced
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

AgilityOnAnRV

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And things just started to get weirder... I'm hoping that these two things are related, but in the last few of days the scooter has died twice while coming to a stop. Everything still feels great while riding around.

Is there a logical connection between the engine dying at stops and the surging at high speed / WOT?

As long as the thing keeps running while I figure this out, hopefully the troubleshooting will be enjoyable as a learning experience :-)

baddi

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And things just started to get weirder... I'm hoping that these two things are related, but in the last few of days the scooter has died twice while coming to a stop. Everything still feels great while riding around.

Is there a logical connection between the engine dying at stops and the surging at high speed / WOT?

As long as the thing keeps running while I figure this out, hopefully the troubleshooting will be enjoyable as a learning experience :-)

Troubleshooting are always the best learning experiences. ;)

I dont know how long time your scooter has been running, but if the air filter are dirty, you should replace it or clean it. You can partially clean it with pressured air or a powerful vacuum cleaner, but buying a new one is always the best. If this is the problem, your scooter will have been running richer and richer for some time. :)

If the carburator was adjusted to the proper mixture during the winter, when it was colder and the air was denser, then it will also be running rich now, where the air are becoming less dense, as we get closer to summer. :D

The next thing that comes into my mind, that can affect both idle and full throttle are weak spark (problably because of old spark plug) or a compression issue. :)
First Kymco agility 50 (2008) 11.000+ km (dead)
Second kymco agility 50 (2010) 20.000+ km. Project Fuel Injection. Stolen.
Kymco K-pipe 125 (2014) 7400 km.

AgilityOnAnRV

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Troubleshooting are always the best learning experiences. ;)

I dont know how long time your scooter has been running, but if the air filter are dirty, you should replace it or clean it. You can partially clean it with pressured air or a powerful vacuum cleaner, but buying a new one is always the best. If this is the problem, your scooter will have been running richer and richer for some time. :)

If the carburator was adjusted to the proper mixture during the winter, when it was colder and the air was denser, then it will also be running rich now, where the air are becoming less dense, as we get closer to summer. :D

The next thing that comes into my mind, that can affect both idle and full throttle are weak spark (problably because of old spark plug) or a compression issue. :)

Thanks! So...

Air Filter
The scooter is from 2008 and has ~3500 miles on it. I looked at the air filter last week and it seemed white and clean. Is a visual inspection enough to give it a thumbs up? According to the previous owner (a retired gentleman who didn't seem as though he would lie about this), the scooter hasn't been ridden through dirt / dust and was only really used for grocery trips.

Carb
I don't think that any adjustment was done last winter (the bike is in south Texas), although I thought that the issues that I'm experiencing would mean a lean mix, not rich? Am I wrong on that one?

Weak Spark
Okay, here's where I jump into scary waters. Is there an easy way for me to find my spark plug? How can I test this?

Compression Issue
To fully reveal my engine non- know-how... what does this mean?

Once again, huge thanks for your help! Figuring this out myself - with all of your help - is going to be immensely rewarding. I'll be checking out the carburator diaphragm today as time allows and I mixed Sea Foam in with the fuel yesterday.

Areomyst

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I didn't read the whole thread (bad manners, I know...) but for what it's worth, the Motion Pro tool has come in very handy for accessing hard to reach pilot adjustments:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/205/4821/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Ninety-Degree-1-4-Hex-Driver.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch

A dry-rotted intake manifold or cracked insulator gasket (plastic thing under the manifold) will cause whacky idling. 

I'll go back and read the thread like a gentleman when I get a chance after work. :)

~Josh
www.scooterinvasion.net - Tech help, repairs & tuning.

juice

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zombie

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Juices pict is perfect. See the intake mount? That is where the carb attaches to the engine. Areomyst is right about the cracks there. They ALWAYS crack. You should replace the manifold, and the spacer under it with New parts, and O rings. Get ALL new filters, and a plug.
To test for weak spark there are tools but a simple 1/4" gap to any ground will tell the tale. http://www.partsforscooters.com/ is a great place for these parts.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

AgilityOnAnRV

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Juices pict is perfect. See the intake mount? That is where the carb attaches to the engine. Areomyst is right about the cracks there. They ALWAYS crack. You should replace the manifold, and the spacer under it with New parts, and O rings. Get ALL new filters, and a plug.
To test for weak spark there are tools but a simple 1/4" gap to any ground will tell the tale. http://www.partsforscooters.com/ is a great place for these parts.


I'm on a work trip now and hope to have an opportunity to match juice's photo up with the scooter tomorrow. Is the circled part in the photo the intake mount? Coming at this from having zero experience but wanting to experiment and learn:

-What will I need to remove to have access for examining and replacing the manifold and spacer? How can I know which manifold/spacer/O-rings to purchase? Are there any particular tools that I need?

-I assume that "get all new filters, and a plug" means new filters and a spark plug, but which filters are you referring to and is there any particular type of spark plug that I should get? Is it easy to pull the old plug and put in a new one? (And the ultimate beginner question... where is it?)

I hope that you can forgive my inexperience and keep sharing your knowledge!


zombie

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"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

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