Author Topic: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.  (Read 21512 times)

streido

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Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« on: April 15, 2012, 12:32:02 AM »
Thought i'd make up a simple all-in-one guide for de-restricting the Agility 50 since its a question that never dies off, ever.(there is a search bar on this forum you know? ). I've tried to make this as clear as possible for everyone to follow easily since many reading it will be Newbies, so bear with me if your an oldie.

Ok, so to derestrict it fully you want to swap the restricted boss for a smooth one, fit an #82 main carb jet and also cut the
 rev limiter on the cdi if its the same as the one in the photo below, or you can buy a derestricted cdi if you dont fancy cutting
 into your own.

To derestrict you will need,
A 38mm smooth variator boss,
An #82 main carb jet(5mm/M5 thread), my 2008 Agility uses keihin Jets(i assume all agility's are the same but cant verify this)
Thats it. Honest thats all you need, apart from tools.

Here we go,

1 - CDI Rev Limiter -
Either get a hacksaw or a file and cut into the bottom edge of the cdi, I was worried doing mine cos I was cutting deeper and deeper
 into the cdi and saw no wire,ended up getting a big flat file and did it lie the photo below which was easier to see where the wire was
(thanks Wordslinger).I was about to stop and give up just when I had one last file and found the thin wire.
The photo of the cut cdi here,my wire was in the bottom right of the cdi as you see it in the photo, just where the small groove is



2 - Smooth Boss -

Heres a comparison of the restricted and a smooth boss,


Just follow the pictures here to see how to swap it out, its a lot easier if you have an impact wrench to remove the variator nut,
http://www.scootertherapy.com/bosspage.html


3 - New bigger main jet -

This 2-part vid shows pretty much how to do it, tho its not exactly the same engine or carb,its close
 enough to understad how to do it. The main differences are that your carb prob only has 3 screws underneath whereas the one
 in the vid has 4,and you dont need to remove the fuel lines or any other hoses other than the 1st 2x big hoses he disconnects
 at the start ( the intake hose that feeds air into the carb from the airbox, and the manifold that feeds air/fuel mix into
 the engine). Once you disconnect the intake and manifold you can lift the carb free enough to slide an old rag under to catch
 the fuel that will leak out, and then flip it over to get to the screws below.

Here's the vids - Part 1 -
                 

Part 2 -  

And no,thats not me in the video (thank F**k)


The above gave me a top speed of about 43mph on the speedo I think.

Further mods to think about later -

I fitted a race variator and lighter 5.5g rollers but you may not want to bother with this right now, up to you. There are a few
 makes of variators and also many cheaper chinese clones at different prices, Pollini, Malossi etc, suppose you get what you pay for.
The Malossi And Pollini race variators come in a kit with a de-restricted smooth boss,the variator and a torque/contra sping(usually 1000rpm).  
This gives smoother and improved acceleration with no flat spots like i had on my stock variator and i got some more top speed too.

After this I now get about 45-48mph, weather permitting, on the flat most days (on the speedo, prob only 43-44mph actual since speedos
 are generous).


For rollers you want 16x13 ?g rollers (? being the weight you want).Stock weight is 6.5g so lighter will rev higher and may improve acceleration
 but can lose 1-2 mph top end, heavier will slow acceleration but may give you 1-2mph more top end. Try 1g heavier or lighter and take it from there.


Changing the torque/contra spring in the rear pulley to a 1000rpm or 1500rpm will improve uphill speed and acceleration. I found the 1500rpm spring
 works well for my set-up but i ran a 1000rpm for a while 1st and even that was an improvement on stock ( stock is around 850rpm i think).
I used a variation on this method to remove my clutch assembly and get to the spring, tho i dont even use a vice i just use a big adjustable
 spanner instead.


I rarely drop under 30mph going uphills unless its a pretty steep hill,thanks to the 1500 torque/contra spring im running.

Finally the clutch fly springs can be swapped for stiffer ones,i use 1500rpm at the moment. This should let the revs build higher before the clutch engages
which should in theory give you better take off speed from stopped. Personally i didnt really feel that much improvement at the time when i did mine,but
i dare say if i went back to stock springsi may notice it more now.

Here's a vid showing how you can swap them out, WARNING it can be a pain in the holle trying to fit them back on so be patient,
especially with 1500rpm or 2000rpm springs.



Hope this helps out any newbies or anyone else who is just beginning to thin of tuning or de-restricting their A50. Good luck.

Man i got too much time on my hands..........  ::)

Like Zombie I accept Paypal too  :D .
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 12:35:12 AM by streido »
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wordslinger

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 12:49:50 AM »
(i assume all agility's are the same but cant verify this)


..verify and testify brother!!!!


..this topic should go down in history.....


   + 10 to streido!!      8)



« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 12:53:04 AM by wordslinger »
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

streido

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 12:54:34 AM »
well i've saved it in my favorites now anyways just so i can paste it in every time someone new asks "How do i de-restrict my Agility 50?", saves typing it out every time lol.

Consider this my legacy to Kymcoforum .






.......................So do i win a free prize now or what?  :D
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wordslinger

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 12:56:42 AM »
i've saved it in my favorites now anyways just so i can paste it in every time someone new asks

..wow...me too!!!


..if abody cant get it goin after readin this, then they just need to take it back to th shop....


                                                :-\
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:00:07 AM by wordslinger »
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

wordslinger

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 01:01:05 AM »
...btw, thanx for th props and th pic!!
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

streido

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 01:04:28 AM »
Quote
..if abody cant get it goin after readin this, then they just need to take it back to th shop....
Or buy one of these and be done with it  :D


Quote
...btw, thanx for th props and th pic!!

Well it is your photo, copyright and all that. Dont want your lawyers coming after me  :o
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wordslinger

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 01:08:39 AM »
..i'd settle for cash...or maybe one of those pink trikes....


..??huh??.. 


     :D
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

baddi

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 10:23:06 PM »
I'd like to add something with the contra spring.
I dont know what it means that the spring is 1000 rpm, as the rpm are a matter of spring AND roller weight, so i've measured how much force it takes to press down the spring to its bottom, and to make it as easy as possible, im measuring force in kg's (newton*9,82).
The white spring which comes with the malossi multivar is often refered to as either better or worse than the original, so yesterday i decided to test it out, and it shows, that they both require the preassure of 30 kg to be pressed fully. (Tested by putting the spring on a weight and start pressing).
And the 30 kg spring is stealing alot of energy from the bike, as 20 or 25 kg is standart on many 2-strokes, as these often have more power. The reason why we have a 30 kg spring on our agility is, that it is ment for the LBD8 motor (original taiwanese 80 ccm), while we have the LBD6 motor (50 ccm for export to western market). So if you'd like to change contra spring, put a weaker spring in, and then adjust roller weight to that, and you'll have a much better running expierience than with standart or stonger springs. :)
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streido

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 10:47:05 PM »
Quote
I dont know what it means that the spring is 1000 rpm

All spring ive ever seen for sale are rated as rpm to dictate their stiffness, 1000rpm,1500rpm or 2000rpm? Thats what i mean.

A weaker spring is no good to me at all, it will not allow me to set it up in a decent rideable way. Its fine on the flats but as soon as i hit an inckine my speed drops off, sometimes its ridiculous on hills that arent even all that steep. 20mph or less was not unknown on my a50 going uphill on my stock rated spring, no matter what weight rollers i tried. 1000 rpm Malossi was better on lighter rollers and the 1500 was even better yet. 2000 rpm rated was no good for me again on any rollers so thats just too stiff for a 4t 50cc i guess.

I cant live with a contra spring less than 1000rpm rated at all.
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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 10:55:39 PM »
All spring ive ever seen for sale are rated as rpm to dictate their stiffness, 1000rpm,1500rpm or 2000rpm? Thats what i mean.

A weaker spring is no good to me at all, it will not allow me to set it up in a decent rideable way. Its fine on the flats but as soon as i hit an inckine my speed drops off, sometimes its ridiculous on hills that arent even all that steep. 20mph or less was not unknown on my a50 going uphill on my stock rated spring, no matter what weight rollers i tried. 1000 rpm Malossi was better on lighter rollers and the 1500 was even better yet. 2000 rpm rated was no good for me again on any rollers so thats just too stiff for a 4t 50cc i guess.

I cant live with a contra spring less than 1000rpm rated at all.

To help the newbies and all others, put your 1500 rpm spring on a scale weight, press it, and see how much it is at when fully compressed. As rpm is affected from so many other things, it is easier to focus on how strong the spring are. :)
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zombie

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2012, 04:25:28 AM »
Love you guys!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

streido

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2012, 07:20:28 AM »
Quote
put your 1500 rpm spring on a scale weight, 

If anything baddi i think thiscwould confuse newbies even more. I have never seen any contra spring for sale anywhere that has it rated that way? All shops and stores, physical and online, list only the rpm rating, if i was to call up and start asking for one in a size according to pressure used to compress it then i fear i would be met with a lot of blank looks at most or all shops.

Maybe in Denmark its different?
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baddi

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 09:09:31 AM »
If anything baddi i think thiscwould confuse newbies even more. I have never seen any contra spring for sale anywhere that has it rated that way? All shops and stores, physical and online, list only the rpm rating, if i was to call up and start asking for one in a size according to pressure used to compress it then i fear i would be met with a lot of blank looks at most or all shops.

Maybe in Denmark its different?

I'm more interested in what will fysically work best and WHY, which i quess most people here are too, as they are on a forum for discussing scooters. The salesmen are not nearly interested in how strong things are, as they are interested in words that will give the costumer an idea of more power. That word is when selling motorparts always Horse powers or RPM, and for some reason, the salesmen have agreed to use this as a standart, instead of telling how strong the spring is.

Because: you cant say that this spring needs 800 rpm to be compressed or that this needs 1500, as they need force, which is the roller weight thrown outwards at a certain speed, and therefore there are one more variable than the rpm, and that varable are the weights.
To eliminate the confusion of dealing with more than one variable, we can just say how strong the spring are, and we will all know if it is a strong spring or a weak spring. :)

And the situation in Denmark? Here they will use what is told from the manufacturer, so the HEBO spring is in % (percent of what, i dont know, as it cant be percentages stronger than standart spring?), the stage6 is soft/medium/hard, the motoforce is in rpm, diffrent top performance springs are marked with % and with kg, and Polini Evolution Slider spring are marked with kg, where 32 kg are the strongest of them. :)
Seems confusing? Yeah, it is, as we dont know their references, as we dont know what machine and roller weight each manufacturer has used, when they hit 1500 rpm. ;) But kg is universal (or it is not, but Newton is, and the gravity accelleration varies only a little from country to country), so it would be nice if we could get a universal standart :D 
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streido

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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2012, 10:43:18 AM »
Now i've got a sore head  ??? lol.


All i can say is i tried tuning my cvt on various weights to improve acceleration and uphill speeds and nothing compared to fitting a stifder spring with the correct rollers for that spring to give me what i believe is my max torque/gearing for hills around here. Is Denmark flatter than Scotland? I assumed you were quite hilly over there too? How do you cope going up hills? Do you not drop down under 30mph?

For steep hills i normally get up them at 30-31mph(if i get a run at it ok) for normal hills or inclines i can power up at near 40mph, i can even accelerate uphill where on the stock set up on the same hills my little a50 would just die back to around 20mph at best!
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Re: Streido's Newbie guide to de-restricting and basic tuning.
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2012, 10:57:39 AM »
Now i've got a sore head  ??? lol.


All i can say is i tried tuning my cvt on various weights to improve acceleration and uphill speeds and nothing compared to fitting a stifder spring with the correct rollers for that spring to give me what i believe is my max torque/gearing for hills around here. Is Denmark flatter than Scotland? I assumed you were quite hilly over there too? How do you cope going up hills? Do you not drop down under 30mph?

For steep hills i normally get up them at 30-31mph(if i get a run at it ok) for normal hills or inclines i can power up at near 40mph, i can even accelerate uphill where on the stock set up on the same hills my little a50 would just die back to around 20mph at best!

Im sorry about your head, sometimes i forget, that i am studying to become an engeneer, and others may not be used to the way of thinking that i am. :)

Some say that Denmark is as flat as a pancake and others disagree. :D We haven't got any mountains, and i almost never go to the hilliest places, so the hills i refer to are short steep ones, which is 1-300 meters long and mabye (its hard to see) 20 meters up. The steepest hill i've went up were 10 degrees (if i recall correct) and i dont remember this as a place where i wanted to kill anyone, so it cant be a problem ;)
First Kymco agility 50 (2008) 11.000+ km (dead)
Second kymco agility 50 (2010) 20.000+ km. Project Fuel Injection. Stolen.
Kymco K-pipe 125 (2014) 7400 km.

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