Kymco Like 200i Power loss

[scooterfan]

I am not sure where the cat converters are located on scooter exhausts ?
 I could be wrong but I think it could be located inside the main exhaust ?

For what it's worth - the cat converter at the Honda was located inside a separate box close to the engine. My DIY cat removal can be seen at the photos below.
The stainless steel inserts which can be seen at the first photo was just to prevent possible noise levels due to the cat removal. I did not want the bike to become too noisy.
The second photo has been taken after everything have been welded in place again.

Sorry if this post cause more irritation.

[Stig / Major Tom]

A clogged cat can indeed have a serious effect on engine performance.
In my wife’s car’s case my wife started mentioning the car “has less power”. New spark plugs and new air cleaner did not make any difference.
Then my wife started mentioning the engine “ battles to start”. At that stage I started thinking the engine was on it’s way out.
Next thing, the engine warning light came on. I then took the car to a local Ford dealer. They hooked the car to a diagnostic tool, and they told me the cat needs to be replaced. The price they quoted on a new cat was completely insane. When the guy realized I would never be prepared to pay that price he referred me to a local specialist who “remove cat converters on Ford cars quite often”.
Since removal and installing an aftermarket Lambda sensor the difference in engine performance is quite substantial. The difference in engine power made us realize the cat should have been removed long ago.

Due to the better performance on the car engine I decided to remove the cat on the Honda motorcycle as well. After removal I couldn’t find any difference in engine performance, because the cat on the Honda was still fairly new.

I doubt that this scoot's cat. converter has clogged after just 5,779 miles.
But, ??.

Stig

[mousejunks]

Cat converters are expensive because they contain precious metals such as platinum and palladium.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Cat converters are expensive because they contain precious metals such as platinum and palladium.

I was a member of a jury, in court, for the trial of a guy who was driving around at night in his Jeep ripping cat converters out from under parked cars with a chain.

The case involved a destroyed Miata exhaust system. The jury foreman said that, since the recycling yard only pays about $50 for these converters - we need to find him guilty of a misdemeanor. One has to reach the $600 mark for it to be a felony.
I pointed out that the receipt to repair the man's exhaust system was $3200 at the dealer.
I argued that surely it is not the "hot", "street" price that determines the $$ amount of the theft - but the actual value of the item.
"Rob somebody of a $1,000 Rolex and get $20 on the street for it does not make it a $20 theft."

I told foreman , "you'll need to tell the bailiff to tell the judge to order us supper, and book rooms for the w/e because I'm not going to place the damages at less than $600."
The foreman caved, and we had dinner at home.
Stig



.

[marcohildebrandt]

Just to clarify, the dealer thinks that the exhaust is blocked NOT the catalytic converter. I live near the beach and most metal rusts quickly.

Also he said that the sensor is required for the fuel injection computer? But where is the sensor? if I cut the exhaust pipe just before the exhaust box I can leave the sensor where it is, as I assume it is closer to the engine?

[scooterfan]

Just to clarify, the dealer thinks that the exhaust is blocked NOT the catalytic converter. I live near the beach and most metal rusts quickly.

Also he said that the sensor is required for the fuel injection computer? But where is the sensor? if I cut the exhaust pipe just before the exhaust box I can leave the sensor where it is, as I assume it is closer to the engine?

If the original exhaust is in your possession you can just look for an open threaded plug on the silencer itself, or an open threaded plug on the pipe somewhere between the silencer and the flange which bolts to the cylinder head.
The sensor might still be bolted to the plug, which obviously means the plug might not be open.

If the original exhaust is not in your possession, you could have a close look at the current exhaust mounted to the scooter.

If you cant find anything, I think there should be no reason to worry about a sensor - I think in such a case there is a possibility that the mechanic was thumb-sucking about a catalytic converter in the exhaust system.

My scooter (Agility 125) has an EGR system which control emissions in a different way. I think there is a possibility that your scooter also has an EGR system - instead of a catalytic converter.
I just Googled the subject, and had a quick look at Youtube videos as well. I could not find any evidence of scooters having catalytic converters.

Maybe you could have a look at the video below. Towards the end of the video it shows the components of an EGR system on a smaller scooter. The system on the video's slightly differs from the EGR system on my scooter - some of the components are located under my scooter’s floor panel.

If your scooter also has an EGR system - I think the EGR valve (bolted to the tappet cover) probably got stuck. In such a case the exhaust installed by the mechanic will probably only be a short term solution - the exhaust will get clogged again.

Like I mentioned - I think you should determine whether your scooter has an EGR system like this, instead of a catalytic converter:
http://youtu.be/ubUosWJUhM4

[marcohildebrandt]

So for a non mechanical person, from what I understand, my issue is a blocked silencer (the round thing at the end of the exhaust pipe next to the back wheel). So if I cut that off and replace it with a after market silencer it should fix my problem?
Also, I am assuming the sensor on the Like 200i is located closer to the engine, so by cutting the silencer off towards the rear of the scooter I should not have to replace it if I only replace the silencer.

Does anyone know of a reliable supplier of a silencer for a kymco like 200i that ships to Australia and am I right in thinking above?

Thank you in advance for all you mechanical mind people 

[scooterfan]

So for a non mechanical person, from what I understand, my issue is a blocked silencer (the round thing at the end of the exhaust pipe next to the back wheel). So if I cut that off and replace it with a after market silencer it should fix my problem?
Also, I am assuming the sensor on the Like 200i is located closer to the engine, so by cutting the silencer off towards the rear of the scooter I should not have to replace it if I only replace the silencer.

Does anyone know of a reliable supplier of a silencer for a kymco like 200i that ships to Australia and am I right in thinking above?

Thank you in advance for all you mechanical mind people 

I assume the original exhaust is not in you position therefore you are not able to find a sensor.

Regarding your first question - if you can’t find a sensor anywhere on the current exhaust (the one the mechanic gave you to use in the meanwhile) , between the front bracket which bolts to the cylinder head backwards to the “round thing”, as well as on the “round thing” itself, chances are very good that you will not experience problems if you just cut the pipe and install another silencer.
To my mind this means your scooter did not come with a sensor in the exhaust system which could have any effect on the ECU by any means.

Having said that - I think it is important to make sure whether you are able to find a sensor on the complete exhaust unit or not.
My reasoning for this, on my wife’s car the sensor is located on top of the cat box itself - if your mechanic was correct about a cat at the inside of the silencer (round thing) at the back, there is a possibility that the sensor will be mounted to the “round thing” itself. In such case cutting off the pipe and installing an aftermarket exhaust might cause problems.

Having said all this - I will be very surprised if a small scooter like yours came with a catalytic converter. It most probably came with an EGR system, which means the exhaust should not have any sensors anywhere.
Maybe you should visit the mechanic again, and ask him to show you where the sensor at the exhaust is located. I could be wrong, but I have a strong feeling he is not going to find a sensor anywhere.

In short , if you cant find a sensor anywhere - I would just cut the pipe and install an exhaust that fits.

[marcohildebrandt]

Thank you for your reply and assistance, my scooter is still in pieces at the dealer, but I found out that there is a sensor closer to the motor itself, so as you say, if I cut the pipe near the silencer I should be OK, I just need to find a supplier which is not easy in Australia 

[CROSSBOLT]

Like 200i has an O2 sensor in exhaust pipe between muffler and engine. The Like 200i has a closed-loop EFI system with that sensor regulating mixture. The catalytic converter is inside the muffler. I agree with Stig in a clogged cat in less than 6000 miles but also understand the possibility.

[scooterfan]

Like 200i has an O2 sensor in exhaust pipe between muffler and engine. The Like 200i has a closed-loop EFI system with that sensor regulating mixture. The catalytic converter is inside the muffler. I agree with Stig in a clogged cat in less than 6000 miles but also understand the possibility.

Thanks for clearing. I just had a look at a video regarding valve clearance settings on a 200i. By looking at the valve cover it became clear that the 200i’s do not have EGR valve housings connected to the valve covers - therefore it obviously comes with catalytic converters.

https://youtu.be/eipDXgGdh6o

Sorry about causing some confusion.

[marcohildebrandt]

As the dealer tried a brand new exhaust that resolved the issue of a loss of power even after only 9500km I guess it has to be the issue.

I bought the manual for the like 200i today and it lists possible causes of a loss of power;

caved exhaust muffler
clogged exhaust muffler or exhaust muffler air leak

I also had to replace the drive belt at only 8500km so maybe my scooter was built on a Friday 

[scooterfan]

I can understand others being irritated with my take on Kymco fuel-injected machines, especially if your machine is reliable and predictable.  I've had the misfortune of recommending Kymco 200s (Agility & Yager) to two friends and both machines have come to the end of useful life at less than 6,000 miles.  Both will start, but misfire constantly when driven, and the nearest dealer (about 75 miles away) has been unable to repair either one.  It's embarrassing, to me, to see a scooter end up like this.  I made the recommendations, and it was a disaster.   

FWIW, it would be really helpful if motorcycles had OBD-2 diagnostic ports like all cars.  But they don't!  Believe me, if there was a real solution, one that actually worked, I'd be the most thankful rider in scooter-dom!

Sorry about commenting again but maybe your two friends should have a close look at this thread ?
Who knows - maybe they might be sitting with exhaust problems as well ?

[Stig / Major Tom]

As the dealer tried a brand new exhaust that resolved the issue of a loss of power even after only 9500km I guess it has to be the issue.

I bought the manual for the like 200i today and it lists possible causes of a loss of power;

caved exhaust muffler
clogged exhaust muffler or exhaust muffler air leak

I also had to replace the drive belt at only 8500km so maybe my scooter was built on a Friday 

That's bad luck to have failed internals (or broken O2 sensor or wire) on your LIKE200i muffler. No fun being the first to report experiencing this.
Goodness knows I've been banging across the same bad patches of roadway for nearly 8 years on my LIKE with nothing shaken loose.
As for the belt - can't help there - I'm so fiddly with my scoot that when I go to look at stuff, I just pop a new one on. (which I did at @4,000miles) I consider the scooter belt to be THE critical part which I don't want to snap when accelerating across two lanes of approaching Buicks.
American price of the muffler unit is $260 but the thing is so heavy that the shipping would be a killer.
Surely there's a wrecked/donor LIKE within 50 miles?

Stig

[marcohildebrandt]

Thank you everyone for your help, very much appreciated. I have learnt a lot with everyone's help especially Stig. Bought a manual to get my head around how the 200i hangs together.

I have spent 5 days exploring every option online (eBay, Amazon etc etc) and local motorcycle wreckers, but sadly to no avail. There were some universal cheap flimsy mufflers that were not worth the effort.

In the end the dealer beat the price down from Kymco to $AU750, almost half price, which is a similar price to an after market from Europe or Asia by the time you add freight. Australia is a loooog way from anywhere and $US 1 = $AU .67 putting us well and truly behind the eight ball.
With 8 people with corona virus in my hospital there are fortunately for me, a lot of extra shifts going that will help me pay this one off. No rest for the wicked!

I did explore some electric motorcycles and there are some good ones coming out. I will go down that path for my next purchase. Less maintenance/moving parts to go wrong. There is a Super Soco TC Max that does 95km/h (about 60m/h) that will be released in Australia this year.