Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue

[Stig / Major Tom]

In a lot of locales it is too cold to ride - so I post this open letter to those out there, with a scooter in the shed,  sitting in front of their monitors holding a cup of coffee:

Come along folks....this is an real issue for too many of the Kymco Xciting 500 owners.
It is a great bike when running - but it has a record of being hard (or impossible) to start on even moderately cold days.
There are a lot of good minds who stop by here - can we toss some fresh ideas into the bowl and see if we can come up with a fix - or even a good work-around for this problem?


How about a simple dipstick heater?
Unplug it, put on your oil fill cap and go for a ride.
Seems if the engine oil is warmed - then over a few hours the entire engine will be warmed....and maybe that will fool the cold-hating EFI parts and let this scooter start. Solution must be more than just using Mobile1 type thin oil for easy cold cranking - surely 500 owners have tried that.
Something in that  EFI/ECU set-up is not responding appropriately to the cooler temps. So, how to fool it?
Dumb question - but, does it seem to crank more slowly on cold days. Faster on warm days or with warm engine? Probably little difference.

I listened to the youtube video of a guy trying to start his 500 on three diff days. Sounds painful and frustrating.

Scooter community ...... remember, there are no dumb questions or dumb suggestions.
(Well, not many....)
What have you got?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgsMDoRj6FY
Stig

[CROSSBOLT]

Would be a cheap try. Sounds like a good, simple, sensible idea.

Karl

[Mr. Paul]

I try to keep things as simple as I can.  With my mind,  I have too.  It's one of 3 things.  1. Fuel  2. Fire 3. Air. 
First I would try to partially block the air intake when cranking.  If no improvement then would try a shot of starter.  If no improvement would put a blow dryer on the computer and warm it up a little.  No kidding. If the first two doesnt  work, try it.  Just a little country diagnostic.

[blue]

wrap the motor in heat tape. plug in when not rideing...............

[2wheelfun]

Put a rag in the airbox opening and see if it starts up faster or normally. That's like putting the choke on. If it helps it then it would seem the fuel circuits in the TB need to be cleaned thoroughly. With FI it should start right off the bat. Some techron might help too. You need to get the mix correct for such a small tank.

[wkreps]

Just beginning to diagnose mine but I got stalled when my lithium battery went dead. It's being replaced under warranty but alas, it is backordered. (Their way of making me pay, I'm guessing cause they are replacing for something not under their warranty). I have tried:
New Iridium spark plug
New Lithium battery with 21Ah and 315CCA's (14Ah is OEM)
New Air filter
Shell Rotel T6 synthetic 5W40 oil

Once I get my battery back I'm going to try these things from the Cyclepedia Service Manual.
Idle reset.
Throttle Position Sensor reset. Scoot needs to be warmed.
Also going to check the stator output by measuring battery voltage at idle and at 2000RPM. (Shorai has suggested voltages for their batteries.)

Thought about putting a car battery in and trying that cause once it wouldn't start at work and my wife came to pick me up and she brought the jumper cables. Hooked it up and it started like it was 70degrees outside (instantly).

My guess (and I'm grabbing at straws cause I just don't know) is that it is not getting enough fuel in the cold like the fuel map needs changed for cold weather. If you watch all of the guys videos on YT one shows it "try" to start with a quick sputter. Mine does exactly the same. If I crank, rest, crank, rest, repeat repeat repeat. It will finally start. Enough for me to worry about frying the starter though. Once warm, I can shut it off and restart it without issue. Come back the next cold day and crank, crank, crank . . . nothing.

The choke idea I will try because that may end up being an easy mod if it works (thanks for that idea). Although the air filter slides into a slot rather than into a box like smaller scoots. Not sure how I'll get that to work.

REST ASSURED, IF I GET THIS FIGURED OUT, I WILL SHARE IT EVERYWHERE I KNOW SO THAT NOBODY HAS TO GO THROUGH THIS. It's an aching feeling I get when the scoot is down.
Thanks to Stig for starting this up.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Wayne,
Some say it is OK to jump your scoot with a car battery - some say not to.

BUT, those that say it is OK to use a car battery (out of the car or in the car) say this : do NOT have the car running when you do the jump!
We're all pulling for you & that pretty scooter!
Stig

[2wheelfun]

Remember stator output is in ac voltage till it gets to the rectifier.

[de dee]

   for the people who start there scooter with a car battery, how much easier does the scooter start,  I was having trouble with my downtown ( it was below 0 F. )  and I put my 800 cca. car battery on it,  and it started like it was summer,  the scooter battery turned it over but it would not fire, 

[xsel777]

I had a dual battery Setup at one time. This worked great, but I still had to trickle charge every night.


 Sent from my Samsung Note 3 with Tapatalk

[Doc Wheezer]

Just beginning to diagnose mine but I got stalled when my lithium battery went dead......

Thought about putting a car battery in and trying that because once it wouldn't start at work and my wife came to pick me up and she brought the jumper cables. Hooked it up and it started like it was 70degrees outside (instantly)....

REST ASSURED, IF I GET THIS FIGURED OUT, I WILL SHARE IT EVERYWHERE I KNOW SO THAT NOBODY HAS TO GO THROUGH THIS. It's an aching feeling I get when the scoot is down.
Thanks to Stig for starting this up.

Wayne,
I believe you know the answer to your problem.  Not enough power from your new battery in cold temps.  If it in your words  'started like it was 70degrees outside' while hooked up to jumper cables and the wife's car.  It looks like you have discovered it takes more power to start your 500 in cold weather than what your battery is able to putout.
First, I ruled out any thing that has to be plugged in dipstick warmer, any type of warming tape or blanket as not practical.
I have some ideas and they do hit the pocketbook. 
You could buy the largest, most powerful Yuasa Battery that will fit. At this point I would only buy from Yuasa themselves.  Not Amazon or E-bay just to avoid and chance of knockoffs from china.   OR
Buy a Micro-Start small portable jump starter from Antigravity Batteries. Because I have read about these being counterfeited in china and sold on both Amazon and e-bay, I would only buy directly from Antigravity Batteries own website.
On my 500 I had connection for a float charger, I don't remember if you have one too.  I would make the same style of  connection for the Micro-Start, so that when the need happens you just plug in and start her up.
 Yes it is a pain, but then you have the Micro-Start for your cars too.
Either way you're going to spend over $100.

[Forbes1964]

This may have already been addressed. ButI've noticed that the PREFERRED  oil for the 500 is 5w-50 as opposed to 15w40 for the 250. The other viscosities are labeled as ACCEPTABLE. Is anyone using 5w-50 in their 500? Could that small change make the difference?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mr. Paul]

I would still like to see what would happen if the computer was heated with a blow dryer then try to start it. I know it sounds crazy and it may be just that, but as in the Dirty Harry movies "I just gotta know." Whatll you say, feeling lucky Wayne?

[wkreps]

I received my replacement Lithium Iron battery and have had no trouble getting the scooter started. After doing some testing I believe that the Lithium battery I received from revzilla.com was bad. I know the original battery that came with the scooter was bad because it sprouted a gellatinous leak on the top which prompted the replacement. Thank you for the ideas and now that the harshness of winter is over I really don’t think I’ll know the final results till next winter but I feel fairly confident at this point. You heard of the song, “It’s all about that bass”? As mentioned, I think the Xciting 500Ri, “Is all about those volts”. I don’t know about the rest of you but I get really depressed when the scooter is not running. It has me questioning whether I should even own them cause I’m used to the reliability of a car. When you need it, it is there and just works. I need that with my scooters.

Here’s the troubleshooting path I took once I got my battery. Not too enlightening because it worked right away but it may help someone learn to document what you are doing and so that down the road, you can exactly remember what was done.

Day 1
Install battery with an outside temp of 33F
Measure battery at 13.47v
Turn key 5 times and let fuel pump finish each time and after the 5th try and start. It started right up.
Let idle at 1200rpm for 5 minutes revving several times to 5000rpm.
Shut off and measured battery at 13.86v. (the stator is charging, YEAH)
Manual reset procedure for TPS/ISC (results are same idle at 1200rpm)
TPS= Throttle Position Sensor, ISC= Idle Speed Control
Took for a 5 minute ride.
Measured battery with scooter off at 13.86v.
Day 2
Measured voltage after 24 hours of sitting and 40F outside temp. 13.30v.
Started fine with 1 cycle of fuel pump.
Idled and cycled to 5000rpm several times and shut off.
Battery measures 13.89v.
Day 5
Waited 3 days
Ouside temp 63F
Battery with scooter off measured 13.28v.
Started fine with 1 cycle of fuel pump.
Battery 13.95v at 2000rpm
Battery 13.95v at 5000rpm
Ordered voltmeter to install on the scoot so I don't have to get under the seat to read the voltage.
Day 6
RIDE TO WORK!!! YEAH!

Thanks again for all of the ideas. You never know, I may need to refer to this thread next winter to do some additional troubleshooting. If so, I'll know exactly where I left off.

[xsel777]

Great news!

 Sent from my Samsung Note 3 with Tapatalk