Author Topic: suspected faulty kill switch  (Read 6673 times)

vrf

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suspected faulty kill switch
« on: January 16, 2015, 03:45:10 AM »
Hi all, new to the forum and have had a S200 that won't start for about a year now. Can't figure it out. Starter motor cranks and cranks but no spark. Seems like it's exactly the same thing as what happens when you have the kill switch engaged. Is there a way to completely disable the handlebar kill switch, or both that one and the side stand switch?

Actually, does the s200 even have a side stand kill switch? I took off the side panel and there doesn't seem to be any wires hooked to the stand/pivot point, etc.

Sorry, I'm not very mechanically inclined, at least with engines.

Thank you,
Vance

zombie

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 04:37:06 AM »
Hi Vance, and welcome to the forum.

The kill switch simply applies ground to the CDI. This bypasses the trigger pulse so no spark.
The easiest way to bypass it is to simply unplug it at the switch.

There is no side stand switch. I would suggest pulling off a few plastics, and looking for loose connections. Especially the "bullet" connectors off of the stator.

Also New spark plug first, and unscrew the plug boot/clip off 1/2" of the Hi T lead, and screw the boot back on.

There are a few more basics so check these out, and post back.
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vrf

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 02:30:21 PM »
Thanks for those suggestions. I'll start there and report back. I did already put in a new spark plug, however, and tested it against the frame.

zombie

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 05:11:14 PM »
You're welcome. I would also check the ground wires from the engine, and battery to the frame. Often times these wires corrode or come loose, and that will create a no spark deal.

Keep us informed! ;)
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vrf

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 02:27:21 AM »
OK, lots of time in the garage this weekend.

Ground wires from battery and engine to frame all seem to be fine. There is maybe a bit of "gunk" on the engine one, but I wouldn't call it corroded by any means.

As I mentioned, I put in a new spark plug. I did not clip the coil, since I have a second coil around that I tried. I figured it would be unlikely for two to fail.

Wires from the stator. This was a new level of tinkering for me. I took off the fan thing, the inner hub cover. Wires looked fine in there, although I didn't get all the way to the stator coils. I followed the set of wires up from the stator back to the rear of the scooter. The wires looked fine there. There was one bullet connector that felt looser than it should be. (blue/black I think.) I pinched it tighter but it didn't help. And when I unplugged it completely, no startup actions at all. My problem is a I get the starter motor cranking, but no spark.

I did actually go in and disconnect the handlebar kill switch. It was by no means a fun task to dive that deep under the plastic, but I think I did it without breaking anything. Unfortunately, it didn't help. Still no spark.

Perhaps some background would help. When the problem first happened, it was very cold outside, and since I'd ridden the bike that day and parked outside, it got hammered pretty good by wind and bitter cold. There was some battery juice there, though, but it was pretty weak. (I've since replaced battery.) I tried kick-starting, but the rod broke off! So I had to have my brother-in-law come pick me up with his truck. Anyhow, that was the last day it started. There had been some oil coming through the air filter box (probably an overfilled crankcase), but other than that, it had been working great. There was maybe a bit of "hesitation" at high speeds, going down hills, where it felt like the throttle would "slip" a bit or something. But it never was a problem other times.

Any other suggestions would certainly be appreciated!

Vance

zombie

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 04:12:47 AM »
There is a black wire with a yellow stripe (I believe that's correct) coming from the CDI to the kill switch. The other side of that switch should go to a green wire (ground).
With either of these disconnected the cdi should fire.
This means that either the stator is not putting out voltage or the rectifier/regulator is not working the cdi is not working or the wiring is open/shorted somewhere.

For a quick test of the stator you can put an AC voltmeter across both of the stator outputs, and kick the bike over or use the electric starter. I forget the voltage but it is somewhere between 50 and 250 volts AC. Almost any reading above 50v indicates it is good. There is also a trigger coil next to the stator. Unplug that (blue w/ yellow stripe), and set the meter to Ohms. You should see 50 OHMS between that bl/ye wire, and ground.
These parts rarely go bad.

If they test good hook it all back up, and crank the engine.

Your headlight should at least flicker/glow dimly while cranking. That confirms the stator is working, and you now either have a bad rectifier or cdi or wiring. There is a manual in the Kymco Links thread off of the home page. 2nd page of the links thread...

Check the rectifier according to the manual, If it passes then its the cdi or wiring. You were already under the plastics so wiring is 75/25 not the issue. CDI's are under 100.00USD

Find the manual, double check my numbers, and see where that leads you.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 04:14:26 AM by zombie »
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bluesin

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 02:47:34 PM »
We were having issues with our People 250S .techs kept trying to figure it out and when they , finally, did...it turned out that the left brake
(rear)was faulty and acting as a kill switch when holding it to start the bike . Techs were using right (front) brake and no problem,then, they tried to take it for a ride and because of being ON the bike had to use left and it would fail EVERY time.
Fixed it and no further problem .
"There is a Fifth Dimension beyond which is known to Man. It is a Dimension as vast as Space and as timeless as Infinity......It is an area which we call 'The Twilight Zone' .   "Rod Serling

vrf

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 07:41:42 PM »
OK, Zombie, thank you for the help. I'll look at the rectifier.

One thing: My headlight does not flicker/glow when cranking. So this might mean my stator really is the problem?

Bluesin, I was excited to read your post and I ran out to the garage to test it out. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it started with the right brake. Is it possible the faulty brake switch could manifest itself even without being pulled?

bluesin

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 09:12:06 PM »
OK, Zombie, thank you for the help. I'll look at the rectifier.

One thing: My headlight does not flicker/glow when cranking. So this might mean my stator really is the problem?

Bluesin, I was excited to read your post and I ran out to the garage to test it out. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it started with the right brake. Is it possible the faulty brake switch could manifest itself even without being pulled?


Not sure if either/both brakes could cause the problem, but - thought I'd throw it out there . Zombie and others here  are MUCH more knowledgeable than I about Scoots .
"There is a Fifth Dimension beyond which is known to Man. It is a Dimension as vast as Space and as timeless as Infinity......It is an area which we call 'The Twilight Zone' .   "Rod Serling

zombie

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 02:42:11 AM »
The brake switch only allows the starter relay to engage. I can not see how it could prevent spark unless it somehow shorted onto the kill switch wire.

No power to the light means the stator is not putting out on the charging side. Try disconnecting the battery, and reading the wires while you kick the bike over. Se if you get any reading.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

BettinANDlosing

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2015, 02:55:17 AM »
The S200 uses a DC lighting circuit.
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zombie

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2015, 03:09:52 AM »
"No power to the light means the stator is not putting out on the charging side"

I got one right.

It could be the rectifier or the stator. Usually the rectifier.

Between the two of us Bet... Well take over the world. (I want to be Pinky) Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

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BettinANDlosing

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2015, 03:16:55 AM »
"No power to the light means the stator is not putting out on the charging side"

I got one right.

It could be the rectifier or the stator. Usually the rectifier.

Between the two of us Bet... Well take over the world. (I want to be Pinky) Are you pondering what I'm pondering?



Haha yeah
2002 Kymco B&W 300; MRP 78MM "300CC", Naraku cam, Yoshimura rS3 exhaust, 17g Sliders, Yellow torque spring drilled airbox, stock carb #115 main #40 pj.

2001 "Yamaha" Zuma AKA MBK Booster; MHR OverRange, Dellorto 19mm BHBG, Polini "big" intake, RS-3 Rear shock, Stock cylinder.

bluesin

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2015, 12:45:55 PM »
I LOVE Pinky !!! (Brain, too ,just notasmuch ) . ;D
"There is a Fifth Dimension beyond which is known to Man. It is a Dimension as vast as Space and as timeless as Infinity......It is an area which we call 'The Twilight Zone' .   "Rod Serling

zombie

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Re: suspected faulty kill switch
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2015, 04:35:38 PM »
I made sure to be home by 4:00 to watch them w/ my kiddo. They reminded me of my second favorite show...



Two of my dogs are named Ralph, and Norton. I had a Trixie as well but a gator got her when she was a pup.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

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