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Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: streido on March 24, 2012, 06:25:49 PM

Title: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 24, 2012, 06:25:49 PM
Fitted a open cone filter today (http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa351/streido/20120324_155927.jpg)

Also upped my jet from 82 to 88. Started it up on the stand and revved it, it died down on revs when i tried to WOT and started kind of pulsing up and down the revs when i tried to hold it on throttle open.

Took some tape and sealed up about half the filter and tried agaim on the stand. It was better but didnt feel quite right. Went for a quick ride and it felt a bit lumpy or boggy when i opened up the throttle past half way. Stopped halfway and took a little tape off to let more air in, that made it worse. Got home and this time i taped up about 2/3 - 3/4 of the open filter and tried it on the stand, that felt pretty good so i went for a ride again. This time it was a lot better and almost felt as good as before i started messing with the stock filter.

So my question is do i just need to go even bigger on the jet? If im on a 88 now and only using 1/4-1/3 of the air filter how large do i need to go do you think so i can ride without tape on the cone? Im thinking at least 100 jet or 110-120 even? Does this sound about right?

Dont want to wreck my engine running lean so any help or advice would be good? I know Wordslinger usually ran 101 or 110 i think on his open filter so im guessing thats my problem, am i just using too small a jet? Checked my plug after my last run again and it looked ok, light tan,on the boggy runs before it was very light tan almost going white.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 24, 2012, 07:36:24 PM
I know Wordslinger usually ran 101 or 110 i think on his open filter so im guessing thats my problem

..yes!!!i ...it is indeed your problem!!!

..dont ride that thing without jetting higher!!..your taping experiments prove the point!!!

..start with a 100, and chop a plug...or just ride...

..most likely to wind up somewhere between 90 and 100...there's too many variables to be able to tell you any closer range than that..


...DON'T RUN LEAN!!!...


..btw...like that piping!

 :o
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 24, 2012, 07:46:42 PM
Thanks man. Do you reckon i can ride it  the 18mile/day round  trip to work and back for a few days if i leave the tape on? Or will this damage it?

Only other option is that i put back my stock box and 82 jet tomorrow till i get some jets.

If i order jets mon morn i should have them tues afternoon with luck.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 24, 2012, 08:10:41 PM
..i would LOVE to say yeah, tape it and ride...i've done it myself...

...but if you REALLY want to be safe......................


 :-\
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 24, 2012, 09:31:40 PM
Aaaargh  >:( Now i guess i should swap back to my old filter then till i get bigger jets, sh**!

Doubt i'll find anywhere open tomorrow since its sunday and the world stops on a sunday. I'll try find a shop but if i dont i reckon i prob should swap it back. Might leave the 88 jet in and see if it runs ok like that, it only going to be like that till tues at the latest so only be putting about 35-40 miles on it.

Im off to look for a local bike shop online thats got a parts dept thats open on a sunday. Good luck with that   ???

Think i'll buy a 100, 110 & 120 and try get it close with those. I can fine tune it perfect from that i think if its still not good enough. Thanks Word.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 24, 2012, 11:39:40 PM
...much over 102-3 will probably be a waste of money...

..i suggest 92, 95, 97-98, 100, 102...maybe a 102...

..where are you located?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 24, 2012, 11:50:03 PM
Hmmm. Maybe i should try 92, 95, 98, 100, 102 then. Think i'll need to order online tomorrow night unless i get lucky and find some tomorrow afternoon.

Im in Scotland, UK, weather is mixture of dry and damp usually, never warm very long apart from a month or so in summer if were lucky.
The 82 jet worked well after derestrict but i just thought with the 88 jet in and me needing to cover 65-70% of the filter to run it that if i used the same ratio i may need to up my jet by 65% or about .53 so that would give me a 130 jet. Guess the ratios dont work that way tho maybe. Ill try the sizes you suggest 1st. Ill order 4-5 jets i think.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 24, 2012, 11:51:48 PM
Also i just read online earlier someone said you need to oil the k&n type filters or they dont work properly? Is that correct? If it is what type of oil do i use?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 12:00:36 AM
..never oiled my kn...been running it for 3 years...i dunno..lol...

..if it's mostly wet, damp air you ride in, then definately wont need the larger jets...

..damp air contains a lil less oxygen...which is what's mixed to fire in your combustion chamber...


..also have to think about your relative elevation...higher elevation might warrant smaller jetting...air is less dense at higher elevations...

..itsa trial and error, somewhat, process until you find your range...but it's always better to start out rich...not much worry in damaging ur engine that way...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 12:03:46 AM
...also, if you ride wet, you might wanna think about something like this...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 12:13:48 AM
Cheers. Like you say, trial and error, hopefully not too much tho  :)

We're not that high up just above sea level i think so i dont need to worry about elevation.
Quote
.. .btw...like that piping!

Believe it or not thats a piece of chromed 38mm copper pipe off a toilet urinal at work lol. Dont worry tho it didnt carry urine   :o , just water.
Seems to fit perfectly, just hope nobody minds the urinals not flushing anymore, the scoot seemed more important  ;D

Btw the filter i have has the plastic cover that goes over it to keep it dry(ish). I just havent fitted it yet cos i sprayed it bidy colour today and its still wet. This is the one i fitted http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270864360921?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270864360921?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 12:17:57 AM
Seems to fit perfectly, just hope nobody minds the urinals not flushing anymore, the scoot seemed more important 


..    ;D :D lmfao :D  ;D  ...


Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 12:19:57 AM
...thatsa good looking cover...

..on that filter, is the filter and mounting boot all one piece?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 12:24:24 AM
Its 2 seperate pieces. I think it comes off if i was to pull it hard. I can spin the filter round on the boot. Is that better or worse?I hadnt even considered it? Maybe its a better quality item if its been made in 2 parts?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 12:33:15 AM
...well, i bought one of those spinning filters once...think it was a EMGO...something like that...

..after a cpl months, the filter part decided to divorce itself from my scoot..


..never did find it...

..it would be a good idea to go ahead and epoxy the 2 pcs together...lol..
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 12:59:16 AM
Well there you go, i'll glue it on tomorrow then just in case  :D

Just read on another site where i was looking for jets "Please note after fitting the cone filter that a jet increase of at least 10 - 15 sizes will be necessary to avoid damaging the engine." Says it all, my little 88 jet needs to be at least a 92-97, given how bad it was with no tape im guessing what you said is bang on,  prob get the 95, 98, 100, 102, maybe a 105 or 110 too just in case.

This isnt going to be as quick to set up as i hoped,guess i shouldve planned getting more jets in 1st before i started.  :-[

We'll get there i the end.  :)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 01:03:19 AM
..you are doing fine, bro...good thing is that you stopped when it appeared to be lean...


..and you pretty much showed yourself by taping over...

..you got this..

..HAPPY TUNING!!!
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: Shaka on March 25, 2012, 01:33:27 AM
Also i just read online earlier someone said you need to oil the k&n type filters or they dont work properly? Is that correct? If it is what type of oil do i use?

YES!  It is the oil that actually traps the small particles.  You use specific, "air filter oil."  Otherwise, I know others that use 2T oil in a pinch...never tried that myself though.  The oil also repels water and helps with riding in light rain and wet roads.

PS. Agreed you're running lean. ;)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 01:38:49 AM
The oil also repels water and helps with riding in light rain and wet roads.


..well damn...


 ::)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on March 25, 2012, 01:39:18 AM
The oil also repels water and helps with riding in light rain and wet roads.


HMMmm, could be why i cant ride in wetness, she will die..... Non oiled filter.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on March 25, 2012, 01:39:57 AM
 ;D :o

Oh Dam, the same quote.... :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 01:41:48 AM
...wtf...howd that happen......lmao....
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on March 25, 2012, 01:45:52 AM
MAaaaaagic.... ;D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: Shaka on March 25, 2012, 01:51:38 AM
You HAVE to oil the filter!  I clean mine and re-oil regularly...definitely helps, especially in the rain.  Did that today actually! ;D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 01:53:03 AM
..i clean mines regularly...never have oiled tho....
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on March 25, 2012, 02:01:03 AM
Me either... always been dry as a mo fo....
just thought that was K&N's thing..... ::)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: Shaka on March 25, 2012, 02:06:43 AM
K&N's are red for a reason....the oil is red.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 02:08:07 AM
...aaaaah...

..never made th' connection.....


        ;)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on March 25, 2012, 02:08:34 AM
+1.......... :-[
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: Shaka on March 25, 2012, 02:21:56 AM
That's OK...Learn something new everyday. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 25, 2012, 04:06:42 AM
...hey streido...it just turned sunday here....


...got jets???


 ???
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on March 25, 2012, 06:10:00 AM
Also i just read online earlier someone said you need to oil the k&n type filters or they dont work properly? Is that correct? If it is what type of oil do i use?
My engine will not run with an oiled filter. Even a little...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: Shaka on March 25, 2012, 06:28:40 AM
My engine will not run with an oiled filter. Even a little...

 ???  What kind of oil are you using?  Never, ever, heard of that?!
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 10:45:01 AM
No jets yet Word. Im not long up, 10:30am here. Looked online last night for local bike shops but the only place i found thats open today is a Harley Davidson place so doubt theyll have any that suit me, may try tho. Was thinking im prob easier looking for a 1mm drill bit than jets so i may do that instead today and see if that gets me close by drilling out an old 80jet i got lying about. Just having breakfast then im going out to try around a couple of place i know.

Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 11:42:09 AM
Got some 1mm drill bits so im going to try them out on my old 80 jet and see how that runs. Let you know later. Fingers crossed its close.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 03:23:43 PM
So i drilled my jet out to 1mm or a 100 jet and tried it. It does now run with this in and no tape on the filter but felt a little bit of a pulse at full speed and wot, fuel starvation i assumed? Stopped and put tape over 1/4 of the filter and it felt better, still may have had a little pulsing at wot but maybe was just my imagination. Stopped again and put a little more tape on so about 1/3 of the filter was covered and this felt better i thought.

The fact it got better with the bigger jet kinda proves i think i do need a bigger jet still? Maybe order a 102, 105, 108, 110, 115and try those in it?

Im going to replace my stock box and 82 jet back in till i get bigger jets, my top speed was down again but i swapped out my boss for the one i had in my garage which looked better so i need to know if my loss of top end is down to that boss or the air filter and jetting. If i put it back i can make sure my variator is working properly now 1st then try bigger jets in with the open filter.

Just one more thing, where did you put the clear hose from under the front of the old air box? It joins into a block on the bottom of the box and a black breather hose goes into the back of the same block from top of the valve cover. It collects the vapour from the breather in the clear hise normally so i just joined it together without the block? Seemed right? When i went out after half a mike i heard a WHOOSH noise, kinda like a turbo dump valve, stopped and saw the hoses had come apart, luckily the clear hose was cable tied on to the frame. I rejoined them and went again but it still went WHoosh and split apart at the join again. Taped them together and came home. Didnt want to take a chance riding any more in case i wasnt meant to join these hoses, thought maybe the block in the airbox has a release to let air out when i builds up pressure and since i had joined the without a block it may build up pressure and not have any release?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 05:07:57 PM
Stock air box back on,82 main jet refitted for now till  i get some jets. Just been out for a run and top end is back to normal.

Here's what i learned so far,

1 - Had lost top end, down 4-5 mph, replaced boss and 5.5g rollers with new and top end back up to 48-49mph(downhill), uphill (steep) 31mph.

2 - Fitted open filter and 88 jet and it died when i opend throttle up,covered 3/4-2/3 of the filter with tape and it seemed better, actually was drivable but not great, top end down to 38-40-ish mph,didnt even try uphill.

3 - Drilled out a jet to 1mm (1oo jet), no tape on filter, felt pulsing at wot at top speed, got up to 43ish mph.

4 - Taped up just over 1/4of the filter, 100 jet,  no pulsing at wot or top speed, felt ok but top end was down to just over 70 km/h,maybe 44-45mph ish downhill,  uphill was same as number 1, about 31-32mph.

So now i guess i just need to find the correct jet size to get it runnig without tape covering the filter without it running lean and hopefully i will get back the top end with the open filter on?  :-\

Going to go order some jets now, hope it works out cos i dont want to run the open filter if it means sacrificing some top end speed.

Let you know in a few days if i get time to try the new jets midweek.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 25, 2012, 05:13:12 PM
Oh,and if anyone whos done this mod can tell me about the valve cover breather tube and what they did with theirs that be good too  :)

I still thin it must have some kind of pressure release in the small conection block on the stock airbox that joins it to the clear tube that hangs under the airbox.You know the one that fills up with yellow fluid over time with a bung on the end.

Cheers guys.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on March 26, 2012, 01:34:31 AM
???  What kind of oil are you using?  Never, ever, heard of that?!
I tried Bel Ray fiber filter oil. It would not even start. Just flooded out. After clearing the filter with brake clean it started right up
I tried to blow the oil off with the compressor but it still choked, and ran way too rich. I dont get it either.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on March 26, 2012, 01:42:08 AM
Oh,and if anyone whos done this mod can tell me about the valve cover breather tube and what they did with theirs that be good too  :)

I still thin it must have some kind of pressure release in the small conection block on the stock airbox that joins it to the clear tube that hangs under the airbox.You know the one that fills up with yellow fluid over time with a bung on the end.

Cheers guys.
The hose is a breather for blow by in the crank case. It will have positive pressure when the engine is running. What I would do is simply route it to a spot under the scoot so it can drain itself as you run. As long as the hose is more than 8" the will be no trouble.
You are on the right track with the jetting... Start with a 110, and work down in size if the 110 is too rich
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: Shaka on March 26, 2012, 01:55:01 AM
I tried Bel Ray fiber filter oil. It would not even start. Just flooded out. After clearing the filter with brake clean it started right up
I tried to blow the oil off with the compressor but it still choked, and ran way too rich. I dont get it either.

Bel Ray specifies that their oil is for foam filters...like a UNI filter
Not really sure if that matters...just saying
I've always used the K&N oil...no problems like that at all.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 26, 2012, 07:49:24 AM
The hose is a breather for blow by in the crank case. It will have positive pressure when the engine is running. What I would do is simply route it to a spot under the scoot so it can drain itself as you run. As long as the hose is more than 8" the will be no trouble.
You are on the right track with the jetting... Start with a 110, and work down in size if the 110 is too rich

I thought somebody gave Blue into trouble not so long ago for running his agility with the bung off his drain tube at the filter? Sure he was told it can suck dust and crap up into the engine?

Yes it does have +pressure when i ride. If its fine to just tuck it away under my seat beside the other drain/breather tubes thats good news tho, its over 8" long (i say that to all the ladies lol).
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on March 26, 2012, 07:58:55 AM
Umm guys, just want to check: are you and i running the same scooter? :O
Because with a cone filter and even without any kind of filter (yeah, it fell off), the biggest i've been running is 84 and 86, which fits that Kymco states that 82-85 is what the main jet should be (up- or down-jetting according to air preassure, temperature and moisture). 100 sounds more like what you should fit on a 80cc or bigger :S

Wordslinger, it seems like you've changed cylinder and have done several things to your agility. Can you confirm that it's the 50cc engine which is sold in your area, and not the original 80cc engine? :)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 26, 2012, 08:21:14 AM
Unless your cone is very small or is part blocked it seems awfully small to run just a couple of sizes over stock Baddi? I run an 82 jet on just my stock air box?

Did you see the quote from the scooter site i put up saying when fitting a cone filter you must upjet between 10-15 sizes at least?

My scoot wont run over 10 mph with an 88 jet in and open filter, it just bogs down and loses all power. A lot better on a 100 jet so somewhere between 102-110 will hopefully be perfecto for me.

Sure Word will be along soon to answer your question, im sure he's still only 50cc tho with no kit, like mine.

Jets ordered, 102, 104, 106, 108, 110. Should get them midweek so hopefully they work out.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 26, 2012, 10:51:35 AM
Wordslinger, it seems like you've changed cylinder and have done several things to your agility. Can you confirm that it's the 50cc engine which is sold in your area

..to my knowledge, there are no 80cc agilitys sold in the U.S.

..and my engine is stock...

I thought somebody gave Blue into trouble not so long ago for running his agility with the bung off his drain tube at the filter?

..been running unhooked, but still connected at the valve cover and dangling for years...the airbox drain tube is a different tube...

..streido...wow...i thot i was the only one that hadda run that large of jetting with my k&n...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 26, 2012, 09:59:31 PM
..streido...wow...i thot i was the only one that hadda run that large of jetting with my k&n...

Thats why i tried an 88 1st, that seemed to be what other i read read had been using  :-\

Maybe our filters just are more free flowing or something? Or if your running your old carb off ole faithful it maybe its that cos mine is an early 2008 model. All i know is it ran like crap till i closed off some of the filter with tape. Was unridable over 10mph, folk were walking past me laughing  :D

Jets were ordered and have been despatched today so i expect them tomorrow, now i just need the time to fit them and test it out. May end up waiting till Fri so i have all weekend to set it up well, dont want to be rushing it to get it all back together for work next day or run it if its not running well.

Then again.........If i get home early enough i may try one or 2 jets tomorrow, those brown parcels always have a way of telling you to open them and play with the contents as soon as they arrive :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 26, 2012, 10:06:01 PM
Quote
...the airbox drain tube is a different tube...

Yeah, but both goin to the small block fitted under the airbox so i assumed they were connected in the block? So you just leave the breather hose to drain from the valve cover and remove the clear drain hose from under the airbox with the airbox, we dont need that bit?

Cool. Wonder if that wouldve affected my top speed on testing the other day since the pressure had no release?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on March 27, 2012, 12:13:31 AM
That wont affect running until it causes the engine seals to blow from the pressure inside the crank case
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 27, 2012, 01:36:18 AM
Or if your running your old carb off ole faithful it maybe its that cos mine is an early 2008 model.

...i am running the 2008 carb..09 accellerater pump was fukd...


we dont need that bit?



..true that...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 27, 2012, 01:41:01 AM

If i get home early enough i may try one or 2 jets tomorrow, those brown parcels always have a way of telling you to open them and play with the contents as soon as they arrive



...i gotta package!!


             :o
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 27, 2012, 02:05:20 AM
That wont affect running until it causes the engine seals to blow from the pressure inside the crank case

    ???

..50,000kms later....

..never had that happen...

Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 27, 2012, 07:14:20 AM
Quote
...i am running the 2008 carb..09 accellerater pump was fukd..

Maybe the newer carbs are different then? Who knows. Im just jealous of your large package lol  :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on March 27, 2012, 08:20:00 AM
Thats why i tried an 88 1st, that seemed to be what other i read read had been using  :-\

Maybe our filters just are more free flowing or something? Or if your running your old carb off ole faithful it maybe its that cos mine is an early 2008 model. All i know is it ran like crap till i closed off some of the filter with tape. Was unridable over 10mph, folk were walking past me laughing  :D

Jets were ordered and have been despatched today so i expect them tomorrow, now i just need the time to fit them and test it out. May end up waiting till Fri so i have all weekend to set it up well, dont want to be rushing it to get it all back together for work next day or run it if its not running well.

Then again.........If i get home early enough i may try one or 2 jets tomorrow, those brown parcels always have a way of telling you to open them and play with the contents as soon as they arrive :D

Not more free flowing. Once my open cone air filter fell off, and i drove several kilometres without air filter and with #86 jet and the same top speed (45+ mph). This was on my 2008 model.
The Carburator got some scratches (from little rocks and dust) on the intake side during the time i ran with an open cone filter, and i found out that the only open cone filter which filters like a normal air filter is the K&N filter. But all those i ran with was with 0,84 - 0,86mm Which is #84 and #86 :)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 27, 2012, 10:02:03 AM
This is bugging me now. Going to phone the wife at lunchtime and check if my jets arrived in the post today, if they did i think i'll leave work early and try them out later today. I reckon i need near the 110 of my drilled out 1mm jet was accurate.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on March 27, 2012, 10:11:12 AM
Maybe the newer carbs are different then? Who knows. Im just jealous of your large package lol  :D

Well, there is a little diffrence from the 2008 carb and the 2010 carb, although they have the same part no. LDC8-E10 (where LDC8 is the part no. and E10 means that it can run with 10% ethanol). The only diffrence i saw was in the inside of the bottom, where the old one had numbers inside and a slightly diffrent placement of where the accellerator pump sucks fuel from. :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 27, 2012, 10:34:07 AM
My jets have arrived so i plan on skipping out of here in 2-3 hrs and going home early to try a few out. Let u know what happens. Its way too sunny today to be at real work anyway  :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on March 27, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
My jets have arrived so i plan on skipping out of here in 2-3 hrs and going home early to try a few out. Let u know what happens. Its way too sunny today to be at real work anyway  :D

I wish i could do the same :D    ... awwww i envy you ;)


Its so nice weather :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 27, 2012, 07:36:39 PM
Put in the 110 jet earlier and gave it a good run. Ran well, too speed back up to about 78km/h, checked my plug and it looked not too bad, seemed pretty close but it was an old plug i had cleaned up so i went to buy a new one and tried again. They only had an iridium plug left ao i took that. Just back in, still runs pretty good, same speed, but i reckon i could go up a little larger yet on my jet to between a 112-115 maybe. I took some pics of my old and new plug so will post them up soon and you can see what you guys think, need a bath and a drink 1st.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 27, 2012, 08:03:04 PM
Put in the 110 jet earlier and gave it a good run. Ran well, too speed back up to about 78km/h, checked my plug and it looked not too bad,


..and ppl thot I was crazy...

    :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 27, 2012, 09:30:33 PM
Heres 2 pics of my older plug i had cleaned up previously,not sure how accurate i can judge it since its about 6 months old.

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa351/streido/20120327_162624-1.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa351/streido/20120327_190452-1.jpg)

Looked not too bad after a run on the 110 jet and filter fully open. The insulator was already brown before i started, maybe from test runs at the weekend.

Heres the new iridium plug after a run of 6-7 miles mostly at WOT. It was dark when i took these pics so the colours are not exact but not far off the actual.

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa351/streido/20120327_202012-1.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa351/streido/20120327_201908-1.jpg)
k
I still think i need a little bigger yet, im going to order a 112 and a 115 tomorrow. Plan on running it to work and back tomorrow then ill check plug again tomorrow night.

Ran it to 78km/h and it was only at about 6750 rpm so i think i still got a little power and top speed to squeeze out of it yet.  :D

Once i get the jetting exact i thin i'll get another 3-4 mph, then i can try a few of the other belts i have and finalise my spring tune.  ;D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on March 28, 2012, 02:49:58 AM
You are lean at wot so stay off that. Try lifting your needle a notch to see.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on March 28, 2012, 02:53:51 AM
...these needles have no notches...

..ssso...

..how long did you run that plug for the chop?

Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 28, 2012, 07:18:01 AM
Im going to phone around and try get a 115 & 120 jet this morning locally. If i cant get one by lunchtime then i'll have to order online again and wait till fri to fit it, if i find one today i can try it tonite.

Quote
..how long did you run that plug for the chop?
Guess i ran about 7-8 mile prob, i was enjoying myself so stayed out.

Thought it looked a little lean myself but its defo getting closer now. I might tape a little of the filter off going home and see how it feels, ran good this morn but i can feel its not 100% yet, feels about 94.82%.  :D

Shops open in just over an hr so ill hit the phone then.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 28, 2012, 07:20:21 PM
Can you believe NO bike or scooter shops have any jets to suit me  :-\

Going to have to order online tonite.

Managed to get a 3/64 drill bit which is the same as a 1.2mm drill so i driled out an old jet to that giving me a 120 jet. Tried it and its way rich.

So now i know the 110 is to lean and 120 is too rich, guessing a 112 maybe about right so im going to order 112 & 114 just in case.

Who says this scootering lark is easy  ???

Covered about 1/4 of the filter and running a 110 tomorrow so i can see if that makes it sit richer.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on March 31, 2012, 04:37:08 PM
The 112 & 114 jets that i ordered arrived but when i went to fit them today i see theyre a slightly bigger body so wont fit  :-\ Bummer.

Just refitted my stock air box and 82 jet cos im getting annoyed with it now and spent too much time and money on it, may go back to it later.

Tbh i dont think i would get much gain apart from in noise even when i get it set up right. I do like the noise, apart from at 6:30am when im trying to go to work without waking up the street, but apart from feeling faster and sportier i doubt my performance is actually any better. It actually feels so much happier and runs so much better going back to stock. Maybe leave it till i get my Vespa finished then when i got more time try jetting again.

For the cash i spent on jets and the filter i couldve just gone and ordered up a new Multivar kit  >:(
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: OregonDad on March 31, 2012, 11:55:07 PM
N00b question about jets.  Does the main jet suck fuel from the float bowl in to the throttle body, or does it squirt fuel into the float bowl?

We need more power for getting up hills.  I have the 82 jet sitting here, but am thinking of ordering a 84 or 85.  If I go with a higher jet, is there a simple replacement for the stock air filter that I can put in the stock air box.  Just kicking around ideas.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on April 01, 2012, 01:16:35 AM
All jets suck... Injectors squirt.For hills a 1000-1500 contra spring is the cure. Jetting is for rpms/overall slight power increase
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 01, 2012, 03:19:29 AM
N00b question about jets.  Does the main jet suck fuel from the float bowl in to the throttle body, or does it squirt fuel into the float bowl?

We need more power for getting up hills.  I have the 82 jet sitting here, but am thinking of ordering a 84 or 85.  If I go with a higher jet, is there a simple replacement for the stock air filter that I can put in the stock air box.  Just kicking around ideas.


..main jet ...squirts fuel into carb's airstream, from the bowl..by means of a vacuum created by the engines intak...

..doos it sucks or doos it blows??
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 01, 2012, 03:20:53 AM
..80, 82..85...100..110..there is NO MAGIC#...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: OregonDad on April 01, 2012, 06:19:45 AM
All jets suck... Injectors squirt.For hills a 1000-1500 contra spring is the cure. Jetting is for rpms/overall slight power increase

Ok thanks, I was thinking of replacing the stock clutch springs with 1500RPM since he is 180 pounds / 82 kilograms.  The stock clutch springs must be very weak since when the bike is on the stand at idle the rear wheel starts to spin slowly. Do the clutch and contra springs need to have the same RPM rating?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 01, 2012, 11:20:23 AM
Its normal for the wheel to spin on the stand at start up since the choke should kick in and raise the rpm's till its warmed up a bit. Once the choke cuts off the wheel should stop spinning, if it doesnt then just turn down the idle screw a little till it does. I set my idle at 1650-1750rpm.

The clutch springs can be swapped for whatever rpm you want and dont need to match. I use 1500 clutch and 1500 contra/torque which means i rarely drop below 30mph up any hill unless its way steep.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 10:52:59 AM
How would you guys read this plug tip below? I thought a little rich?

Been up and down jet sizes yesterday again trying to get this filter dialed in correctly. Before 110 looked a little lean but 120 was too rich by a long way. Got a 112, 114, 116 jet and tried 114 1st which was too rich and sooty still. Next tried the 112 since previously 110 was lean but it felt a little lumpy and boggy at WOT, better than the 114 but worse than my stock box and 82 jet?

Ended up i went up and down and tried from 102-108 too, 102 is in it now and this is how my plug comes out which is weird as before a 110 was lean ??? WTF is going on here ???

Left the 102 in and rode to work, seemed ok but im losing power, more noticed when i hit a hill. I drop about 2-5mph up steep hills compared to my 82 jet and stock box filter?

Heres the plug on the 102 i think it was, maybe 104, i swapped that many times i lost track yesterday with the pics lol.
 (http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa351/streido/20120422_173130.jpg)
 
Going to recheck tonight once im home and see how it looks after todays run.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
Ignore the tan colour on the insulator, that was just from dirt etc not burning.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on April 23, 2012, 01:26:51 PM
A shoot from the hip could be, that the big amount of fuel from the bigger jets cools the engine so much, that it cant do a full combustion of the fuel, while the smaller jets lets the engine hit higher temperatures, so it will show that they are too lean.? :S
I'm not sure at all but do you know if your engine gets very hot with the lean jet sizes and not so hot with the bigger jet sizes? :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 02:53:16 PM
A shoot from the hip could be, that the big amount of fuel from the bigger jets cools the engine so much, that it cant do a full combustion of the fuel, while the smaller jets lets the engine hit higher temperatures, so it will show that they are too lean.? :S
I'm not sure at all but do you know if your engine gets very hot with the lean jet sizes and not so hot with the bigger jet sizes? :D
I dont have a temp gauge so i dont know if it gets hotter. Im going to have a look tonight and see how the plug looks after doing 20miles today. Im uphill on the way home and i know what speeds i average on the route so i can better gauge the performance, or lack of it.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on April 23, 2012, 03:24:16 PM
I dont have a temp gauge so i dont know if it gets hotter. Im going to have a look tonight and see how the plug looks after doing 20miles today. Im uphill on the way home and i know what speeds i average on the route so i can better gauge the performance, or lack of it.

What a shame. Im out of ideas though. :/
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 05:18:36 PM
Well it ran ok coming home but i still think it was down on power a little bit. That was on the 102 jet, plug didnt look too bad, not perfect but i dont think too far away, im just having a hard time nailing this down so its bang on  ???

On minute its lean, i think, on a 110 then now its not too bad on a 102 ???

I just re-fitted the stock airbox and my #82 jet back again for now till i scratch my head a bit and have a think about it. May try get a 98 jet and try that at some point but the way its going i wont get in my garage soon for old new jets lol  :D

Heres the 102 plug........
 (http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa351/streido/20120423_171929-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on April 23, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
I'm not sure if it will help or anything, but i'll recommend that you buy an iridium spark plug next time you change, as iridium spark plugs will ignite the fuel easier. :)

(Warning, explaination incomming. If you already know, then you can skip the following part.)
It is igniting it easier because that they can make a thinner electrode because of more heat resistant material. The thinner electrode makes sure that the fuel/air mixture can come as close to the spark as possible, and the fire will have easier to spread faster. Also, the iridium has lower electronic resistance, which will give a hotter and better spark. You will be able to feel the deference after going to iridium.

And if you haven't already got one, i would also recommend, that you get an ignition coil with more volts at the same time. :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 05:59:56 PM
Yeah Baddi i already have an iridium plug, i just used the normal plugs for test runs cos they were new and clean so i could get a better reading. I put my iridium back in tonight with the #82 jet. Didnt want to foul up my more expensive iridium plug with soot and crap while trying out the jetting.

Just gets frustrating after a while so i better leave it and go back to it or o may end up throwing it off a wall, the filter, not the A50  :D

Zombie? Wordslinger? Any ideas?
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 09:04:43 PM
..streido...check out this link....

..cant go by the end of the plug, gotta observe the mix ring at the base....

"http://www.roost.si/tech/How%20to%20properly%20read%20the%20carburettor%20jetting.pdf"
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 09:39:48 PM
..streido...check out this link....

..cant go by the end of the plug, gotta observe the mix ring at the base....

"http://www.roost.si/tech/How%20to%20properly%20read%20the%20carburettor%20jetting.pdf"

Ahhhhh. Now i see what the problems been then  :-[

I always thought you went with the colour of the tip flat tip of the metal piece over the electrode. Now o know what im meant to be doing i can probably get it sorted out. Thanks Word  :)

Now i need to start all over again from the beginning, oh well, trial and error  :D

Im going to look online later and see if i can get some small carb drills so i can solder a few jets i have to save buying new jets all the time, anyone know where to buy them?

Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on April 23, 2012, 09:45:11 PM
Ahhhhh. Now i see what the problems been then  :-[

I always thought you went with the colour of the tip flat tip of the metal piece over the electrode. Now o know what im meant to be doing i can probably get it sorted out. Thanks Word  :)

Now i need to start all over again from the beginning, oh well, trial and error  :D

Im going to look online later and see if i can get some small carb drills so i can solder a few jets i have to save buying new jets all the time, anyone know where to buy them?



I just bought a jet set from naraku. 10 jets. every second number. Even comes in a handy holder.
it also becomes a little bit cheaper when you buy all the jets at once in stead of individually. :)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 09:51:21 PM
I just bought a jet set from naraku. 10 jets. every second number. Even comes in a handy holder.
it also becomes a little bit cheaper when you buy all the jets at once in stead of individually. :)

Cool thanks Baddi, i'll have a look online later. If i can get a set from 90-100 that will be perfect, so far i've collected a 80, 82, 88, 100, 102, 104, 106, 108, 110, 112, 114, 116, & 120 so i may as well get the full set now since i tried every other f...kin jet going lol  :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 09:51:26 PM
"www.jetsrus.com"


...streido, i bet you're running a bit rich...that 98 you suggested might be just your ticket...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 10:06:33 PM
"www.jetsrus.com"


...streido, i bet you're running a bit rich...that 98 you suggested might be just your ticket...

Thats my thoughts exactly. Too rich.

96 or 98 would be my guess, you must be higher up than me since you use the 101.

Right now i think im getting somewhere, was about to give up. Believe it or not i bust the filter cone off last night  :D

The cone and top seperated off the metal base where its glued on, glued it back up tonight so  i'll order the jets and it'll be fine for the weekend to get it sorted once and for all. Got a new belt size in mind i want to try that i think will go well so think i'll get that along with the jet kit. May as well splash out, the last of the big spenders lol  ;D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 10:11:12 PM
...my 101 was meant for colder, drier air, which is what we typically have here in the winter..35 and below, with a modified oem exhaust...

..no way i could run that large above 45-50 degrees, with the k&n filter...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 10:19:26 PM
...i still want to try that 736.....
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on April 23, 2012, 10:27:53 PM
I live in the same state as word..Good 'ol N.C... ;D
Anyway, i had tried a "100"? mj awhile back and ran and was rich as.........
I went back down to a "90" the day i found it.(i had sent word a pic that day of the rich mix ring)
I posted a vid recently with a "90"mj, now that it is warmer i should have already went down again.
I need a 86-88mj now to get that little bit more.
She does pretty good right now though.  ;)  ;D......NOT today though, fkn wind is like 20-30MPH today.. sux riding today... :D

Of course your over there and we are over here, but it could be some guidelines???
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 10:35:26 PM
..bat, do you know what's jetrus link to a50 mjets??..

..i didnt see any there with the big thread diameter...didnt get thru all them yet..

..that "139qmb jet dont look right..th diameter is small??
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on April 23, 2012, 11:00:13 PM
IIII'MMMMM BAAAAACk.... :D

Not right off, i can try and find though.
I have seen a cpl ppl selling the 139qmb jets, i was thinking they WOULD fit but i did not do any close-ups... ::)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 11:24:53 PM
"http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm"

..linked to their 139qmb....but that looks like a 2t jet spec...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on April 23, 2012, 11:28:07 PM
IDK if this is the one you want but at the request imma posting
what i hope is the right jet for our Ag's.... ;)
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/therealbat/a80cfc20.jpg)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 23, 2012, 11:31:22 PM
Well i already tried an 88 and that was way too lean and it just bogged down as soon as i tried to open the throttle.

I'LL see how the 94/96/98 runs, reckon it MUST be one of them.

Going to look for a jet kit tomorrow at work cos its too late here now, im up in 6hrs for work  :'(

Let you know how it goes.

I want to try find a 736 or 737 x 17.5 x 30 belt. My Malossi kevlar was 17.5 wide and worked well till it started turning to dust. Tried a rubber belt the same only 17.7 wide and it wasnt the same.

I replaced my complete rear pulley assemebly last year and i think it may be slightly narrower at the bottom range than my old one so that 0,2mm is making a difference. Im sure i feel it hit 70km/hr then its like the belt is trying to get down to the bottom so i stop accelerating then it slips in and i go accelerate and can go faster.

Sure thats my issue so plan on putting an order in tomorrow and doing some testing at the weekend..

Btw when i order jets i always ask for keihin jets M5 or 5mm thread they always fit. I got others that say 5mm but the thread pitch was different and they dont fit.
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 11:40:45 PM
..believe that's it batman...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on April 23, 2012, 11:51:15 PM
We can hope it is huh?... :D

Hey steido, drill your own jets.. ;)
It does work... ;D
More time consuming but word and i have been doing it for awhile now... ::)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 23, 2012, 11:57:09 PM
..you betya!!...you got so many of smaller sizes that you can easily drill one out...already bought and paid for...

..nothing to it either...

..it gets fun when you get to solder big ones up to drill smaller...lol..
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: wordslinger on April 24, 2012, 12:06:12 AM
"THE BAT"MAN...
Says:
Statisicaly speaking--"Those that have the most Birthdays tend to live the longest."



..lmmfao!!!..


              :D ;D :o ;D :D


                 ..thats some true sh**!!!
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on April 24, 2012, 12:10:39 AM
..it gets fun when you get to solder big ones up to drill smaller...lol..

Gotta love it when that happens... :D

nothing to it either...
He is correct.. ;)
I remember Z telling me how, i was all to pieces....the 1st time. 8). :D
(there should be pics of "kits" around here somewhere???.. ::)  :-\)




Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: thebatman on April 24, 2012, 12:13:34 AM
..thats some true sh**!!!

 :D  :D I know that s@*t's right...
I want a bunch of them too.  ;)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on April 24, 2012, 03:33:45 AM
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=torch+tip+cleaners&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13395220176343205015&sa=X&ei=Zx6WT4aBMea36QGQh8CbDg&ved=0CF4Q8wIwAg (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=torch+tip+cleaners&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13395220176343205015&sa=X&ei=Zx6WT4aBMea36QGQh8CbDg&ved=0CF4Q8wIwAg)
Get one of these. I cut them up into pieces that act as a guide when filling with solder. The solder will not stick to the stainless wire, and pulls out with a pair of pliers. It has saved me hundreds of dollars over the years... 40 years of wrenching, and counting
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on April 24, 2012, 08:21:28 AM
With a Naraku set http://www.speedline.dk/da/scooter/dysesaet-naraku-m5-nk200-11/ (http://www.speedline.dk/da/scooter/dysesaet-naraku-m5-nk200-11/) theres no need for drilling.
This site will ship to UK, btw and one £ = 9,08 DKK ;)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 24, 2012, 01:58:21 PM
With a Naraku set http://www.speedline.dk/da/scooter/dysesaet-naraku-m5-nk200-11/ (http://www.speedline.dk/da/scooter/dysesaet-naraku-m5-nk200-11/) theres no need for drilling.
This site will ship to UK, btw and one £ = 9,08 DKK ;)

Now i just need to learn Danish...... :D
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: zombie on April 25, 2012, 01:28:32 AM
Just smile alot, and say Ya. Ya.
Gets you anything...
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on April 25, 2012, 08:02:01 AM
Now i just need to learn Danish...... :D

I'll translate: to the right of the orange button, there is a button, which sais "GÃ¥ direkte til bestilling" which means "go direct to ordering"
Click this, and then fill in from the top:
-Choose a country
-name
-surname
-Street name -number -floor
-Zipcode -city
-citypart
-phone
-cellphone
-e-mail (will only be used to send the confirmation of the order).  :D
-Remember to click " Jeg accepterer hermed handelsbetingelserne for Speedline A/S" which means that you accept the terms. :D

besides that, i guess that google translate can tell you what the diffrent words are. ;)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 25, 2012, 10:45:33 AM
mange tak Baddi  ;)

I found a UK supplier last night and placed my order so hopefully it'll arrive today or tomorrow.

 have en dejlig dag  :)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: baddi on April 25, 2012, 11:19:59 AM
mange tak Baddi  ;)

I found a UK supplier last night and placed my order so hopefully it'll arrive today or tomorrow.

 have en dejlig dag  :)

Haha, thanks and i lige måde. :D

You remembered to order M5, right? ;) The first time i bought the jets, i ordered M4, and they didnt fit. :)
Title: Re: Do i need a bigger main jet?
Post by: streido on April 25, 2012, 11:52:40 AM
Oh believe me i know exactly what jets to order since over the last month ive ordered at least 8-10  :D

I always get M5/5mm Keihin jets, they work well. Not all M5 jets will fit, some other makes have a different pitch of M5 thread.