KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: Neil955i on January 04, 2023, 02:48:26 PM
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Spoke too soon on Stig's thread about electrical items letting you down whilst away from home! Not an electrical failure, but likely transmission related?
Symptoms - Major loss of power whereby engine will rev up to 7K or higher, but delivers only 45-50 mph instead of the usual 70 mph at those rpm. Accompanied by whining noise and occasional metallic clatter. Limped the 5 miles home at 30-35 mph!
Suggestions welcome, but I'm guessing it's a strip down of the transmission to check what's amiss? If it turns out to be related to the belt, that would be ironic, given that I only recently posted about my intention to replace it and the rollers at the 10K mark - I'm only about 750 miles off that!
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Neil, I think you're on the right track..pulling the CVT cover should reveal all. Good luck and let us know what you find! (pictures are welcome, too!)
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Thanks for the encouragement Hawk. It’ll be next week at the earliest now as we’re going away for a few days and I’ll wait until the belt, rollers & sliders are delivered*. I’ll try to remember to take photos and post when I open her up!
* Forecast delivery date 14-26 Jan! (It's a long walk to the UK from Italy!)
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Found this (Korean? Vid) on YouTube and whilst it's not in English, I think you'll get the drift...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sddFyvmQaIE&list=PLMdDXkZDOqN3_kPxbu-3jb8jIxuwdwzEc&index=3&t=310s
At about 5m 36s in it looks like the guy is demonstrating how worn sliders could lead to movement and maybe the clatter I heard today?... Guess I'll have a better idea when I tear into it next week.
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Check the air outlet on the cvt. If you find a lot of fiber and black, the belt is coming apart.
Art
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Check the air outlet on the cvt. If you find a lot of fiber and black, the belt is coming apart.
Art
Thanks Art. I'll be sure to check when I have the cover off.
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You don't need to pull the cover off, just poke a finger in it.
Art
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Thanks Art. I'll be sure to check when I have the cover off.
I think NorWeWa's point was check the vent first, THEN proceed with further inspection. Would be like, "no fuzz and no black, not the belt" or "much fuzz and lotsa black, IT'S THE BELT!"
Winding up rpm with little change in speed says:
1. Something is slipping
or
2. Something is stuck
Slipping = lotsa fuzz and bunches of black
Stuck = no fuzz nor black
Survey says....
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I call sticking a finger up the CVT air outlet a scooter "proctology exam". I do it routinely just to see if there is evidence of belt wearing.
Art
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I call sticking a finger up the CVT air outlet a scooter "proctology exam". I do it routinely just to see if there is evidence of belt wearing.
Art
Ugh! Bet that brings back some unpleasant memories for a lot of Forum members!!
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I think NorWeWa's point was check the vent first, THEN proceed with further inspection. Would be like, "no fuzz and no black, not the belt" or "much fuzz and lotsa black, IT'S THE BELT!"
Winding up rpm with little change in speed says:
1. Something is slipping
or
2. Something is stuck
Slipping = lotsa fuzz and bunches of black
Stuck = no fuzz nor black
Survey says....
Thanks for that Karl. Next time* I'm in the garage I'll be sure to stick a tentative digit in and let you know!
* I'm currently 150 miles away from the scooter exercising our new pup Boyd on the East Riding of Yorkshire coastline!
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Repair delayed according to this from my (usually prompt) supplier:
Hello Neil,
We have checked the availability of the parts of your order No. 32678705, and we haven't got all of them in stock and neither has the manufacturer, so we would like to inform you that there will be some delay in the delivery.
Last item due with them on 17th Jan. 🤞🏼
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As there's no riding for me at the moment, predictably I'm 'net surfing and down one rabbit hole chanced upon this. Has anyone on here ever used this or anything similar?
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that looks fancy, and I'm sure it would do the job. I made a cheap one of my own like the one in the pic from a 24" long piece of bar stock, cut off 7" and drilled a few holes.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/FsjbmNxw/Screenshot-20230112-195243-One-UI-Home.jpg)
Ebay for about $12>$19
Used it on all 4 of my scooters. 155>400 cc's
Stig
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(https://i.postimg.cc/FsjbmNxw/Screenshot-20230112-195243-One-UI-Home.jpg)
Ebay for about $12>$19
Used it on all 4 of my scooters. 155>400 cc's
Stig
Thanks Stig, that looks a winner!
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Made my own clutch/variator holding tool from two pieces of flat bar about 24" long, about .75" by .25", each with a .25" at each end. One end is the pivot, the other ends get a M6 x 25 or 30mm bolt and nut.
With nuts in place, the heads go in the clutch holes, without nuts, in the variator holes. The pivot joint goes on the floor.
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Thanks for the pointer Stig, ordered.
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Update: Recognising I've been quiet on this, I thought an update might be in order.
Absolutely zero progress on this job as yet, but I do have a good excuse! I have been up in the East Riding of Yorkshire all last week with my wife and our two dogs - including the new pup who, at 20 months-old we are now trying to toilet train! We got him last month as a "failed sheepdog" off a farm in south Wales, free to a good home. Until taking him on he'd never even been in a house, much less be house trained! It's been probably four weeks so far and I think we've just cleared the 48 hr mark with no accidents and he's going 6 hours overnight with no wees, so progress on that front at least!
Back to the Kymco. Thread lock goop arrived today and my new torque wrench is due for delivery today also. Belt etc., due next week. Once the wrench is here I fully intend to get the cover off and have a look see. I'm hoping against hope that when I do, one or other retaining nut (variator or clutch) will have worked loose and that simply tightening them (with the new torque wrench) will get me back on the road short term.
I'll keep you posted.
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Update: Recognising I've been quiet on this, I thought an update might be in order.
Absolutely zero progress on this job as yet, but I do have a good excuse! I have been up in the East Riding of Yorkshire all last week with my wife and our two dogs - including the new pup who, at 20 months-old we are now trying to toilet train! We got him last month as a "failed sheepdog" off a farm in south Wales, free to a good home. Until taking him on he'd never even been in a house, much less be house trained! It's been probably four weeks so far and I think we've just cleared the 48 hr mark with no accidents and he's going 6 hours overnight with no wees, so progress on that front at least!
Back to the Kymco. Thread lock goop arrived today and my new torque wrench is due for delivery today also. Belt etc., due next week. Once the wrench is here I fully intend to get the cover off and have a look see. I'm hoping against hope that when I do, one or other retaining nut (variator or clutch) will have worked loose and that simply tightening them (with the new torque wrench) will get me back on the road short term.
I'll keep you posted.
Good news on the 'wee' front~!
Our Lilly replaced wife's Brownie (who ate an entire maple dining room set and made paraplegics out of all my daughter's Barbie's)
Lilly is a fine dog. (yorkie-tzu)
Only bites a bit if: you attempt to leave the house; or my wife - if she comes near me to correct me while i'm sitting down.. (took weeks to train her to do that!)
Stig
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Feel like it's my birthday today. Look what the Postie brought this morning!
No excuses now you slacker!
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Cool!
do I see that you, also, replace the 2 CVT nuts with new each time?
I figure cheap insurance that they'll stay torqued (w/o risking snapping or stripping something)
Stig
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Cool!
do I see that you, also, replace the 2 CVT nuts with new each time?
I figure cheap insurance that they'll stay torqued (w/o risking snapping or stripping something)
Stig
Yes, my thoughts exactly Stig. Can't do any harm I figured!
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UPDATE: CVT Cover off this morning and this is what I found! The nut was loose when removed so I'm assuming it worked loose allowing the variator outer face to move outwards fouling the inside of the CVT Cover at high rpm causing the damage visible. This would also explain the power loss suffered just before I heard the rattling sound.
As a minimum I need a new variator outer face (Part 22102) which I cannot get from my usual supplier as their minimum order value is now €160! Worse case scenario is 6 weeks shipping from Taiwan so I've asked my local Kymco dealer* if he can help. I'll let you know.
* Further Update: I've spoken to Richardsons of Congleton who reckon they can get one next day. They're just looking to see if they can also get the element (11350) which the variator has destroyed!
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and now we know! At least you will be able to easily fix this and it shouldn't be too expensive. Thanks for the pictures.
Was your variator nut last tightened at the factory or has someone been in there, before? This might be a good reason to use threadlocker on this nut. We do get reports from time to time of these nuts working their way off. (not torqued down properly?)
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and now we know! At least you will be able to easily fix this and it shouldn't be too expensive. Thanks for the pictures.
Was your variator nut last tightened at the factory or has someone been in there, before? This might be a good reason to use threadlocker on this nut. We do get reports from time to time of these nuts working their way off. (not torqued down properly?)
No, not the factory, my dealer who sold me the bike when they did some warranty work on the variator! Guessing it wasn't torqued up correctly, but as that was 3 years ago... Be sure when I reassemble it, blue thread lock compound will be deployed!
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UPDATE: CVT Cover off this morning and this is what I found! The nut was loose when removed so I'm assuming it worked loose allowing the variator outer face to move outwards fouling the inside of the CVT Cover at high rpm causing the damage visible. This would also explain the power loss suffered just before I heard the rattling sound.
As a minimum I need a new variator outer face (Part 22102) which I cannot get from my usual supplier as their minimum order value is now €160! Worse case scenario is 6 weeks shipping from Taiwan so I've asked my local Kymco dealer if he can help. I'll let you know.
This also happened to me a few years ago. Variator nut came loose on the highway and heard a loud metallic grinding sound.
The outer face pulley is now warped and unbalanced so replacing is the best option. You might also need to check on the splines on the shaft as well.
When assembling use blue threadlock and the correct torque.
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I feel my Downtown 300 has some fine vibration at certain rpm, around 4000, especially when cold. I will also add the blue lock tight when I do my CVT.
Art
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This also happened to me a few years ago. Variator nut came loose on the highway and heard a loud metallic grinding sound.
The outer face pulley is now warped and unbalanced so replacing is the best option. You might also need to check on the splines on the shaft as well.
When assembling use blue threadlock and the correct torque.
Splines and shaft seem fine MJ. As I said, you can rest assured when it goes back together, blue threadlock WILL be applied! I'm assuming that the correct torque is 9-10 kgf-m or 90 Nm or 20 pound force?
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I feel my Downtown 300 has some fine vibration at certain rpm, around 4000, especially when cold. I will also add the blue lock tight when I do my CVT.
Art
My advice Art? Don't delay with the blue stuff!
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@Neil955i, good to see nothing more happened. I've seen several such razed vent- blades recently, and ....?
Nothing serious.
Just in case you don't get the spares from your dealer:
-you and your scoot can live without this inner alu piece which is mounted on your CVT casing, air casing only.
-if you don't get it, leave it like it is or take it off
-in case, your CVT fan is not available forever give me the measures OD/ID/widh and I might find one for you.
After looking at your demaged CVT face once again , it's not beond repair, if your dealer won't deliver.
Drill out this two holes carefully with a 6mm drill
( few mm in only), clean out all alu shavings, smoothen this fins edges with a file.
Leftover fins will still be able to produce enough airdraft to cool your clutch.
Yes, LOCTITE blue and 90 nm does the trick.
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Yep - after looking at your pics...my first thought as well.
If this was a road-side repair. Snug up that new nut - and motor on! Unless you were desert riding - the cooling lost from your newly shaved "flying-wheel" won't hurt a thing.
"Blue-tight"...i use a little. One nice thing about having an impact wrench to loosen things....no worries about flippin' the scooter over when trying to break those "blued" nuts loose! It's either going to strip the shaft....or come loose!
Glad it was no more than as expected - perhaps the only thing serious was the scary noises it was making!
There are a few reasons why I don't run length-of-life contests on my belts......as some do.
Paying visits to the nuts in there is one.
Good job!
Stig
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Aye, a new piece would be nice if money and availability are acceptable. Dressing burrs if not and if inner surfaces nominal. Blue threadlock definitely!
Ach! Dealers and their techs! I shant vent!
Back together and the test ride report!
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Thanks Ruffus, Tom & Karl. The local dealer seems confident that he can get a variator outer for about £40 “next day” so I’m happy to wait a few days and see. Inner surface of fan seems close to pristine, so I'll bear in mind the suggestion of smoothing off the burrs and reassembling if the wait for parts is going to be too long Karl. CVT belt seems OK - no black debris or stress fractures-and no flat spots on rollers, so I’m tempted to wait until 15K miles before going back in there to replace.
Whilst I’d rather it hadn’t happened, it has been a useful learning opportunity for me and stripping the CVT no longer holds that fear of the unknown for me!
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Neil, one more thing came in my mind.
As I said, I saw several outer plates off lately.
Some were simply "unscrewed" because of torque or lack of "stoplock", others were off because of wobbling crankshaft. To check this exentricity precisely you would need a micrometer tool which is out of cost range for onetime use.
Pls watch with a lamp and maybe a magnifier this oilseal which hugs your crankshaft towards CVT:
-are there (even minimal) traces of oil?
-if YES, change this oilseal too
-size is written on it (i.g. 14-28-6/7)
-NO oil smear, GOOD
-YES oils smear? see above
Then check excentrity of your crankshaft:
(Should not be more than 0.02mm)
You cannot see this minimal wobble, but you can feel it if you hold a pencil with its flat side on your crankshaft.
(scoot on center stand, garage open, CVT all off, motor running on idle, gloves donned)
Pls see pic how to place the pencil.
IF there is a feelable wobble (like a camshaft), get a new oilseal for peace of mind.
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Thanks Ruffus, my eldest son who is a mechanic has looked at this and can feel absolutely no play in the shaft, but I will check for any oil smear as you suggest!
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Thanks Ruffus, Tom & Karl. The local dealer seems confident that he can get a variator outer for about £40 “next day” so I’m happy to wait a few days and see. Inner surface of fan seems close to pristine, so I'll bear in mind the suggestion of smoothing off the burrs and reassembling if the wait for parts is going to be too long Karl. CVT belt seems OK - no black debris or stress fractures-and no flat spots on rollers, so I’m tempted to wait until 15K miles before going back in there to replace.
Whilst I’d rather it hadn’t happened, it has been a useful learning opportunity for me and stripping the CVT no longer holds that fear of the unknown for me!
Meant to comment on this earlier Neil.
Yep - I too was a little nervous the first time opening up my scooter's CVT system :)
I'm a pretty good carpenter - and a bit of an a/c VW mechanic - but CVT's and scooters!? Lots could go wrong!
Fortunately - working on VWs taught me to be careful tightening things into alloys!
Things seemed easy enough in the manual, but there is Murphy's Law. ....then the belt cover stuck fast like it was welded on my LIKE200i, etc.
There were two 'pry-points' - but I had to figure safe ways to make use of them.
"Don't get the belt cover bolts mixed up - they're different lengths!"
Figured out from youtube that the lower skirt panel releases with a slid to the rear - don't pull!
And, as always - pay attention to how things were fitted - sequence of the washers - faced which way?!
I took photos!
I had to go thru this 4 times! (LIKE, Forza, Burgman, Liberty)
After my 3rd - the Burgman - I made as certain as I could, by studying manuals (official LIBERTY/ Piaggio manual download, $7.99) - that the Liberty was not going to be my undoing!
The LIBERTY's surprises??? .....torqx fasteners were all shot in there by very angry men !! TIGHT! so tight, some stripped.
Other than that....no worries.
You are probably like me, I just didn't want to screw up a perfectly good little machine!
I can wrench a little - still a crap dancer!
I tell ya - the Italians have a special way of writing English instructions for their Vietnamese made scooters!!
Stig
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Thanks for this Stig, another useful set of things to remember! Some thoughts on what pou say, hopefully in red below:
Meant to comment on this earlier Neil.
Yep - I too was a little nervous the first time opening up my scooter's CVT system :)
I'm a pretty good carpenter - and a bit of an a/c VW mechanic - but CVT's and scooters!? Lots could go wrong!
Fortunately - working on VWs taught me to be careful tightening things into alloys! Tell me, I welll recall the pannier stays on my FJ1200 which bolted into alloy frame members!
Things seemed easy enough in the manual, but there is Murphy's Law. ....then the belt cover stuck fast like it was welded on my LIKE200i, etc. Fortunately mine came free relatively easily after a tap with a wooden mallet.
There were two 'pry-points' - but I had to figure safe ways to make use of them.
"Don't get the belt cover bolts mixed up - they're different lengths!" I'll double check, but I think the 9 of mine are all uniform lengths.
Figured out from youtube that the lower skirt panel releases with a slid to the rear - don't pull! No body panels in my way, yay!
And, as always - pay attention to how things were fitted - sequence of the washers - faced which way?!
I took photos!
I had to go thru this 4 times! (LIKE, Forza, Burgman, Liberty)
After my 3rd - the Burgman - I made as certain as I could, by studying manuals (official LIBERTY/ Piaggio manual download, $7.99) - that the Liberty was not going to be my undoing!
The LIBERTY's surprises??? .....torqx fasteners were all shot in there by very angry men !! TIGHT! so tight, some stripped.
Other than that....no worries.
You are probably like me, I just didn't want to screw up a perfectly good little machine!
I can wrench a little - still a crap dancer!
I tell ya - the Italians have a special way of writing English instructions for their Vietnamese made scooters!! Yep, thank goodness for YouTube videos on how to...
Stig
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Update: Well I've dressed and drilled the variator fan just in case I have to reinstall it, but I spent a while on the phone to my parts guy this morning. All except the filter element* ordered and should be in tomorrow. The element is a non-standard part apparently? Really? On a scoot bought from Kymco UK? Can anyone explain that? (Or even better supply me with a Kymco part number that he may recognise!)
* On my CVT this sits (sat?) on the inside of the CVT cover opposite the variator fan but was utterly destroyed by the fan blade. It's held in place by 3 M5 x 12mm allen bolts
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If you are referring to the foam filter element that fits in the plastic cage over the inlet to the CVT case, mine on the Downtown came apart with cleaning, and I had a sheet of foam about 1/2 in thick and I stretched it between the plastic cage and fastened it down. I did not oil it and it filters everything but the real fine particles. Many scooter CVT inlet have no filter. But some filterof the intake is best.
Art
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@NorWeWa, no I guess he refers to this metal part with three bolts on his pic
@Neil955i, like I wrote earlier, if your dealer doesn't get this "filterelement" or wants gold for it, just leave it as it is or take it out. Has no function except keeping bigger trash from hitting your CVT.
I've seen such parts on import vehicles, here in
Italy it's not standard.
There are several different CVT covers, of which one has those threads to put this grating, another which has appliances (but no opening) for kickstarter.
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https://kymco.at/pub/media/Download/Kymco/SMXTown300ABD2EN.pdf From the picture of the CVT cover it looks like the filter is not there. The filter is shown in section 3-8 page 47 of the manual.
Art
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https://kymco.at/pub/media/Download/Kymco/SMXTown300ABD2EN.pdf From the picture of the CVT cover it looks like the filter is not there. The filter is shown in section 3-8 page 47 of the manual.
Art
Brilliant Art, that’s the little beggar I’m after! All I need now is a part number.
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@NorWeWa, no I guess he refers to this metal part with three bolts on his pic
@Neil955i, like I wrote earlier, if your dealer doesn't get this "filterelement" or wants gold for it, just leave it as it is or take it out. Has no function except keeping bigger trash from hitting your CVT.
I've seen such parts on import vehicles, here in
Italy it's not standard.
There are several different CVT covers, of which one has those threads to put this grating, another which has appliances (but no opening) for kickstarter.
Worse case scenario Ruffus, yes I’ll leave it out. Would prefer to get one if I can though.
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(http://)
.25" mesh and window screen....
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(http://)
.25" mesh and window screen....
Which would be fine Karl, except the spinning variator fan totalled the plastic cage as welll as the mesh/element!
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Looking oem parts for the X-Town 300i, has been frustrating, but the Downtown 300i has more sources. Some of the parts pictures show the part 11350 for the plastic cage but do not list the filter foam. Google is your friend here. I plugged into the search box Kymco 11350 and came up with several image results. 11350-LKG2-900 looks like what you want and the one for the Downtown 300i is 11350-LH3-900. it has a different plastic cage, a cup design. That is what I find on my Downtown 300i. It would fit your X-Town 300 I am sure.
Like I posted earlier, I replaced the foam filter with a sheet of foam I had on hand.
Hope this helps.
Art
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Neil,
Looking at your picture of the cvt case it looks like the plastic cage is OK. Even if part of it is broken it only supports the foam element, and would be fine. You need to take it off the case to examine it.
Art
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@NorWeWa, thanks alot, first time I see this piece in a Kymco manual.
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Which would be fine Karl, except the spinning variator fan totalled the plastic cage as welll as the mesh/element!
Yes, that would increase the challenge a great deal!
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So, long story short, I've found a Polish supplier for the element for 85zl all in! Comes to roughly £16 according to Google and I'm happy with that, even if it could take up to 5 weeks to come! Thinking I'll reassemble with the new variator fan (still waiting on this), then put the element in when I strip again to do the belt in the Summer.
Thanks you everyone for all your help and support on this. The Forum really comes good when, as Kymco owners, we hit a problem. Kudos all round.
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So, long story short, I've found a Polish supplier for the element for 85zl all in! Comes to roughly £16 according to Google and I'm happy with that, even if it could take up to 5 weeks to come! Thinking I'll reassemble with the new variator fan (still waiting on this), then put the element in when I strip again to do the belt in the Summer.
Thanks you everyone for all your help and support on this. The Forum really comes good when, as Kymco owners, we hit a problem. Kudos all round.
Didn't know Poland wasn't doing the Euro.
Paypal is great, isn't it?
For years I bought stuff from Germany, The Netherlands, France, England, etc. using paypal. They'd convert my $$ into beads, shells, bowls of sand, marks, guilders, francs, pounds, sugar cane.....all kinds of currency, safely. There was a bit of a conversion fee - but not significant.
Sure beat sending cash or finding a big bank to buy an international money order and then sending that by registered mail!
Glad you're getting it sorted.
Stig
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Thanks Stig and yes, it surprised me that Poland wasn’t in the € yet, but then I remembered Malta was in the EU for a couple of years before they met all the criteria for entry to the euro zone!
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Parts waiting for me when I got home, yay! Including the “not available in the UK” element assembly. Good news. Temperatures permitting and I’ll be attempting to put it all back together tomorrow 👍
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Update: Not good news. Came to reassemble and found this. Seems the old variator fan, as well as self-destructing, also rounded off the splines on the shaft. Damnation! Also seems that the collar that the rest of the drive assembly slides onto is fixed immovably in place. Looking like a workshop job where they'll have the special tools to deal with this.
Kicking myself now for not looking closer with a torch in the gloom of the garage or I'd have spotted this weeks ago :(
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I would bet the threads on the shaft are filled with aluminum from the drive face. Probably can be removed with careful hand file work.
Art
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Neil don't worry about this fillings, like NorWeWa says it's just scraps of alu. Take a small hook (made from an old bycicle spoke, for example, and pull this remains out. Using dental tools sometimes for such intervention. I don't think your crankshaft got demaged from this rotating.
EDIT:
Looking it over once again with a magnifier I do see demage on those sprockets!.
Under heat and pressure alu produces corundum, which is way harder than mild steel and grinds off some surface.
IMHO no pulling off this boss before the grooves are completely restored and clean.
In contrary I would try to push this boss a millimeter or two back towards motor to get access onto grooves. Otherwise this hardened parts might dig into your bosses inerts and it will be stuck.
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Neil don't worry about this fillings, like NorWeWa says it's just scraps of alu. Take a small hook (made from an old bycicle spoke, for example, and pull this remains out. Using dental tools sometimes for such intervention. I don't think your crankshaft got demaged from this rotating.
Agreed ^^ +1
I would try to pick the fillings out. Care obviously because of the threads nearby.
If stuck try a little heat with a small pen torch then ice-water...or just a little heat with that small torch to see if it loosens it. No cooking the crank or you'll cook the seal.
A little penetrating oil overnight on that stuck drive boss....then a gentle pull with a puller (piece of wood on the crank end not to damage it.
. Clean the crank shaft of rust and inside the boss - or order a new one.
We're pulling for you!
Good luck!
This IS a bummer.
Sig
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just catching up on the forum..shoot...not what we hoped for. This does seem to be fairly common on scoots when the variator nut gives way.
Hope you get it worked out.
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The bad news is that the workshop says the crankshaft is junked. eMail from the mechanic says "Sorry crank destroyed , new crank required.
Cranks cost approx. £450 engine needs to be split in half , labour wise about £400 and several other parts do wish me to price up?"
Not what I wanted to hear!
My response so far is, before asking him to go ahead and repair, what is its part ex value, as is, against a DTX320 (which I've had my eye on for a while) to see if that might reduce the hassle as they're available within 24 hours.
To be continued...
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Personally, I'd go for the new scooter.
Art
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as someone who removed, disassembled, reassembled and reinstalled an engine in a Kymco scooter last year...it's really not that difficult. A quick parts lookup shows a crank at $294 USD, plus another $50 in gaskets and crank seals...but many hours in the workshop.
so my advice is to...look for the new scooter! Perfect excuse to the wife...but honey, my crankshaft is shot! I have to get a new scooter!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/3RtXzSGk/splines.jpg)
Yeah, my first thought was "new crankshaft"!.....(I priced that crank....then there is the labor!) but that was so horrible - hoping a fix was possible.
IF indeed the tops of those splines are scuffed and missing some steel .....as they seem to be back there towards the boss.
Then yeah, you risk having a complete CVT failure some day when you are in some road situation that would be very unsafe.
Belt breaks are scary enough - but if things bound up in there with a shattered front pully ...a locked rear wheel would be bad.
Ah geez....Neil, no $$ assistance from the dealer who last installed that nut?
Just very bad luck Neil.
We're all feeling it.....
Yep. New scooter shopping. Or a nice used one, but only if the price is right.
Hang in there....
Major Tom
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Neil, before you decide to dump your scoot and sell it for parts, get another opinion from somebody who is doing machine work.
For a workshop it's the easiest solution to tell the customer, financial writeoff, costs more than its value.....yada yada yada...
Most of them are afraid to do such a motorjob, for they lack experience.
What I would do if I had this scoot here in my workshop:
-take this drive boss off as suggested
-put this boss on the lathe, cut off 2mm
-now I have 2mm more of grooves for the new CVT
-install new CVT and see how it works
IMHO there is still enough material to hold your fan blade.
But as I said, this I would do on my own scoot and to my own risk.
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The bad news is that the workshop says the crankshaft is junked. eMail from the mechanic says "Sorry crank destroyed , new crank required.
Cranks cost approx. £450 engine needs to be split in half , labour wise about £400 and several other parts do wish me to price up?"
Not what I wanted to hear!
My response so far is, before asking him to go ahead and repair, what is its part ex value, as is, against a DTX320 (which I've had my eye on for a while) to see if that might reduce the hassle as they're available within 24 hours.
To be continued...
Not by what I see in the picture of the spines! Someone already mentioned too scrape the aluminium out of the splines. (You like my "aluminium? That's what you guys say in the movies!") The spines are hardened after being formed so no real problem, in my opinion. Loctite "Bearing Mount" for the splines and Loctite Blue thread locker for the nut (or equivalent).
That crank ought to be fine if that shaft is not bent. This is the point to tell me what I have missed the makes this dissertation invalid!
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Thanks guys, for all the suggestions and moral support. My thinking today is that I’ve now seen two catastrophic CVT failures on this scoot* and I’m losing faith in the bike. The marque I still have a good opinion of, but this machine?…
So I’m inclining towards cutting my losses and moving on, taking it all as a sign from a higher power! I’ll keep y’all updated.
* OK first one covered by warranty. This one I got to suck up.
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so my advice is to...look for the new scooter! Perfect excuse to the wife...but honey, my crankshaft is shot! I have to get a new scooter!
My thoughts entirely Hawk! Actually she’s quite supportive on the subject - it’s still cheaper than a second car.
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Not by what I see in the picture of the spines! Someone already mentioned too scrape the aluminium out of the splines. (You like my "aluminium? That's what you guys say in the movies!") The spines are hardened after being formed so no real problem, in my opinion. Loctite "Bearing Mount" for the splines and Loctite Blue thread locker for the nut (or equivalent).
That crank ought to be fine if that shaft is not bent. This is the point to tell me what I have missed the makes this dissertation invalid!
Yes, I see what you did there Karl. I’m sure if you have the time, skills and cash it’s eminently fixable, but I’m deficient in 2 out of 3 of those categories! My objective now is to get my preferred form of transport back asap. That’s pointing me in the replacement route.
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Dealer came back with a great offer! P/X only £250 down on what they offered me on a running scoot 6 months ago!! Offering 48-hour delivery, so I've told them to go ahead and I'll have the green one. They just said yes, it's in stock so I could be mobile again by the end of the week?
I'll update you guys when I hear more.
Update: Even better news, latest response from the Dealer:
"You don't need to come down with paper work we can collect when you collect or we deliver your new bike
There are on road costs of road tax 47 fuel 15 registration fee 80 number plate 15
Total on road cost £157.00 & delivery Free
All we need is full name and address of where your new bike is to be registered"
Andy, Sales
Given their asking price was £59 lower than Kymco UK list, the OTD price dealer add on is less than £100! Plus with free delivery to me, that's even less hassle; I'm a happy bunny.
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Dealer came back with a great offer! P/X only £250 down on what they offered me on a running scoot 6 months ago!! Offering 48-hour delivery, so I've told them to go ahead and I'll have the green one. They just said yes, it's in stock so I could be mobile again by the end of the week?
I'll update you guys when I hear more.
Works for you is what works for me! Can't wait for pictures of your new ride!
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Works for you is what works for me! Can't wait for pictures of your new ride!
Thanks Karl. As I updated above, I'm a happy bunny. A new scoot and an extremely fair trade in offer. If it had been one of a fleet of scooters I may have been tempted to try a repair, but then who am I kidding? I'm no Ruffus! As I sit here looking out on a dry, sunny and mild February day, I'd far sooner be out there riding than huddled over a gazillion engine bits on the garage floor!
Be sure the pictures will follow in due course.
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Neil, congrats and I'm happy it comes out well for you. Am a little bit "green" of envy too, not only your scoot.😉😉
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So it all worked out for the best! Congratulations, Neil. We can't wait for pics and ride reports.
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Thanks both. Now the big question, when I get it do I whip off the CVT cover and check the torque settings on the Variator and clutch nuts?...
;D
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Thanks both. Now the big question, when I get it do I whip off the CVT cover and check the torque settings on the Variator and clutch nuts?...
;D
after all said and done.... "Well played, Neil!"
just kidding.....I know you didn't go in there and ....you know....with the nut....
Stig
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I know you didn't go in there and ....you know....with the nut....
Stig
As if ...
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Thanks both. Now the big question, when I get it do I whip off the CVT cover and check the torque settings on the Variator and clutch nuts?...
;D
I would not worry about factory assembly except maybe the valves. It is the DEALER TECHS and/or DEALER TECH COMPENSATION I would double check every time!
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Yeah it was tongue in cheek. 3 year warranty should cover it!
There's another X-Town 300 owner here in the UK on another group (fb) that I belong to who is now panicking! I said to him that whilst I can't prove it, I suspect the techs who worked on it the first time the CVT went bang, which was fixed under warranty. I have no issues with Kymco UK who were as good as gold, just with the Dealer who worked on it. As another person on there mentioned, possibly all avoidable by the simple addition of a 10p tab washer...
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Just hint him to open his scoots CVT cover and readjust/ check up on this nut and belt.
He or his mechanic of confidence should unlock, @ loctite blue and off he goes.
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Thanks Ruffus and yes, that might be kindest!
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Think we can close this thread now all, thanks for your support, technical and emotional! The story has just entered a new chapter, see my new DTX360 posts.