Push Left Go Left - Push Right Go Right

[Ernst]

 Today was one of those days when I planned a five mile round trip to get a bite to eat and stop at the store but turned into a fifty mile ride.
 I awoke today late as I have been from watching the news and movies on up to two in the morning. I knew I felt depressed. After all I am staying home as much as I can because of Covid-19. So, as I traveled I started feeling better.
 Let me set the scene. It is a medium hot summer day. The sun is bright and I do feel the heat but with the rush of wind when riding, air mixes in for a perfect riding environment.
 At first it is Light to Light in city riding. Not much exciting except at one stop light the car in the lane next to me didn't realize the car ahead had stopped and even though the light had been green for some time, the car ahead of that one was not moving and the car she was about to run into was not lighting up it's brake lights. And there was that alarming sound of skidding to a stop rubber. Not a soothing sound when on two wheels.
 Soon the stretches of city road became longer and after a few miles gave way to long stretches of open farmland roads.
 From experience I have found that for the enjoyment of a ride on these back-roads that it is better to take a not so logical path. To ride in the opposite direction to connect quicker to the main back-roads.
 This is the land of "back in the days roads" where each small town had it's own Telephone Company and there are back-roads with the names of the towns they connected to.
 So riding North when logically I want South is the way I connected to an eastern heading road and came upon a road heading back south. Then turning on a road named "East Road" and East I went.
 As I traveled I came upon many bends in the roads. I had decided to visit the next county over and a town called Snelling California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snelling,_California
 I like visiting Snelling because on hot Summer days, like this one, the cool of the Merced River mixes in with the dry summer heat from the open dry grass lands, offering a refreshing ride experience and plus it's a lovely small town away from the City. Too bad "Buds Place" is closed down but the General Store offered a cold beverage.
 On the way I was thinking of a book I read once called Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and how simple stories relating to the ride become words of wisdom.
 On this ride I thought about how some people may look at taking curves. I remember my training in the CHP Motorcycle riding classes.
 They said Push on the handlebar in the direction you want to go. So push the handlebar right (turning the front tire left) to go right. This seemed wrong after all we turn the tires in the direction we want our car to go so why not be turning our front tire in the direction we want to go when we are in Curves on a Scooter/Motorcycle?
 It is called Counter-steering.  It is my experience that handling curvy roads is much more enjoyable if I am not trying to lean and turn the tire in the direction I want to go. I site over-steering and being out of position on curves. Sometimes dangerously.
 I find pushing the wheel in the opposite direction to the direction I want to go (Counter-steering) and then also leaning a bit as I do is much better.
 According to an article I am referencing here https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/what-is-countersteering

If you want to have a hot debate among motorcyclists, you talk about oil preferences or countersteering. I think it’s a hot topic because it’s not well understood.

 So what is your point of view?
Any issues on pushing on the steering in the direction you want to go?
I'm thinking a lot of inexperienced riders do not even know what counter-steering is. A discussion may help.
By the way I am not depressed after my ride.Mission accomplished!

[Kansas kymco]

My cousin used to be a motorcycle safety instructor.  He told me when at speeds greater then 30 you actually turn the opposite direction your steering. He said you naturally do this but I never realized I was. So I consciously when out on the road to try this and sure enough it's correct.

If you don't believe try getting the bike/scooter up to speed then without leaning going straight down the highway turn the bars in the direction you want to go and you will go the opposite direction.  We do the turning leaning without thinking about it. Very easy to prove it to yourself.

When I lived in Modesto I use to take HWY 49 for recreation.  I used 120 to get up to 49. 

[Ernst]

My cousin used to be a motorcycle safety instructor.  He told me when at speeds greater then 30 you actually turn the opposite direction your steering. He said you naturally do this but I never realized I was. So I consciously when out on the road to try this and sure enough it's correct.

If you don't believe try getting the bike/scooter up to speed then without leaning going straight down the highway turn the bars in the direction you want to go and you will go the opposite direction.  We do the turning leaning without thinking about it. Very easy to prove it to yourself.

When I lived in Modesto I use to take HWY 49 for recreation.  I used 120 to get up to 49.

 Oh you know all the roads I take then?  LOL I was born in Modesto.

I think the best point to make about counter-steering is how it effects high speed curves. We don't want to go wide because we are fighting with the steering.
I believe riders die by going too wide or too narrow on high speed curves. Proper lean/counter-steering is the way to stay alive.
I have seen photos of single bike crashes around the area and it always seems to be near a curve.'

[john grinsel]

Having been riding (1955)since before MSF and the press came along with counter steering and  I  have survived  over 1.5 million miles----I say KEEP IT SIMPLE----remember Bears and Monkeys can ride motorcycles....they don't or cannot think, push left go right or what have you!  Two wheels require natural feel.

There is more to riding/cornering bike than handlebars.  Think feet/legs, weight on foot boards/pegs, motorcycle griping tank (scooter at disadvantage here)  I think about half the riders in US, use what I call the "A Hole Pivot Technique"---legs flapping, riding like stick up butt---bike or scooter.  Lacking control and having body hurt after long day.

One thing I will admit----motorcycle tire must go left first to turn right.....but this just happens. MSF in US- does not preach enough on real bike control or sitting/riding position period.   Best course I ever attended was "Honda Safe Drive" in Japan in the early '70's----they really made you sit right and place feet right on motorcycle!!    My full time job in Japan for 8 years running motorcycle school------I remember getting a MSF Instructor card.   Rode BMW I kept stashed in CA across the country to DC (if you are going to teach people to ride, you had better do a lot it yourself)----MSF Chief Instructors showed up on in Dodge Van, the other in Buick----so much for my opinion of MSF as Motorcycle organization!  They are sponsored by industry to help sell bikes.

[CROSSBOLT]

Ernst, may possibly you were the CHP mounted officer who taught me how to split traffic in 1967? South bound I-5 south bay area of San Diego, I was commanded, "Follow me!" and down between the stopped cars we went!

Your text relates how brand and model of machine makes no difference in the ride! It is the joy of returning to the basics of the lone horseman in the wilderness.

The early days of riding were kind to me in spite of being initially counseled by the "had ta lay 'er down" crowd! I do recall being told by someone more realistic and reasonable about push in the desired direction, try it, you will like it! I tried it, it worked and realized it did not take much pressure to change the attitude. The concept of pressure rather than movement was the key. Works in flying as well.

Thank you for literary picture!

[Stig / Major Tom]

Respectfully - I'd rather adjust valves...…

When I was a kid on my bike I learned, "there's a frog in the street, go around him!"
Still doing it.

Stig

[Ernst]

Taking a curve. What is your take on this?
 Truthfully as I was riding I was noticing how mile after mile Almond tree orchards were transforming by replacing the natural summer-brown grass land. Each acre of trees commanding an invisible ocean of irrigation water. The demand for water growing exponentially.
 Mile after mile of farms and old road signs tell a story of local history. Old homesteads long passed down to the generations still kept up and freshly painted encouraged a warm smile as I passed.
 Soon a bend in the road would come. Some I knew already and some I did not remember.
 My approach, on navigating a new curve, was to slow down first, position myself towards the high side (middle of the road, for a right handed curve or to the low side of the road for a left handed curve), make a decision on how much of a curve it is then proceed.
 I am in the moment as the sound of my machine becomes the music that joins the wind.
Slowing and positioning places me into my lean and push as I accelerate both my machine and my spirits as we transverse the curve.
 I admit each curve that I execute perfectly, pleases me and I anticipate another with a smile. With each I wish for the next to be better. Better road placement at the right speed entering the next curve. Better lean and push. Better acceleration out of the curve. It is an enjoyable skill that I keep practicing.

What is your take on curves using counter-steering?
Like the Scooter Porn?

[Iahawk]

Counter steering is one of those things everyone does but few realize they're doing it. Every child on their bicycle has been using counter steering since they started riding...it's intuitive.

I've never checked exactly but I think it starts earlier..probably under 20 mph?

I also don't believe one has a 'choice' to counter steer or not...when you're at speed on 2 wheels the only way to turn is by counter steering.

push left (or pull right) to go left....push right (or pull left) to go right

[TBR125]

There is also counter weighting which is the instinctive beginner turn method for some. It definitely has radius limits and does not function for quick movements. I agree, counter steering becomes instinctive, however, with understanding and cognitive controlled actions, turns become more harmonious and ultimately safer in the instance of necessary course adjustments mid corner.