Author Topic: CVT tuning  (Read 3694 times)

chaz35

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CVT tuning
« on: June 05, 2015, 04:00:59 PM »
I got my People 50 2T CVT working awesome, so now I am working on the Super 9.  My used Super 9 CVT never ran right from the day I got it.  At 1st I didn't know how bad it was, it's my first scooter, so I just rode it and worked on tuning the carb.  It's slow on take-off and will not downshift if you get slowed down.

Yesterday, I took off the cover and variator.  Right away I noticed the rollers are worn.  I bought a cool little digital scale just to weight the rollers, and these appeared to be aftermarket 6.5g rollers.  They were flat spotted and all of them were less than 6.5g, some worn more than others.  I installed 7.5g Dr Pulley sliders and put it all back together for a test run.  I just ran it up and down the street a few times, but new sliders made a huge improvement.  I will give it a good test today and report back.

I don't know if clutch has OEM fly springs and torque spring or not, but suspect it does.  I will pull the clutch and check it out later.  I did notice a little bluing of the clutch drum, but not bad.



1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

TheAmishSasquatch

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 05:06:07 PM »
Cool. Report back. Im running 7g rrollers and was thinking of getting 7.5 rroller/sliders as the 7s seem just a touch too light and keep it in gear too long. Any other mods?  Which carb do you have and jets?

chaz35

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2015, 01:29:48 AM »
Took long ride today.  At 1st CVT didn't work very well, seemed like rollers too heavy, went to higher gear too soon, lugged down engine.  Then, got a lot better, I guess the sliders got worn in a little and started working well.  Was fun to ride, so I just kept going, burned over 1 gal of gas.

Next, I need to pull clutch and inspect, was slipping a little too much for me.  A couple of times, I could tell got hot and slipped more than a little coming away from a red light.  I loaded it up a too early and apparently got the clutch hot before I started rolling.  Maybe is leaking a little grease from the torque driver, I don't know.

I have 7g and 6.5g Dr Pulley sliders to try, will probably try 6.5g next.

My Super 9 LC has the following mods:  CDI de-restricted, Tecnigas Next-R pipe (not sure Next-R, but is Tecnigas, works great), Uni 2 stage air filter, rejetted OEM carb (105 main, 35 low speed as I recall), and now Dr Pulley 7.5g sliders.  I verified has Kymco OEM variator.  This baby runs really nice, don't even think it needs BBK, it accelerates smooth right up to 80k and holds it there easy.  A test hill that will pull down my People 50 a lot, hardly even slows down this S9.  I normally don't go much past 80k/ 50mph any more on speedo, to take it easy on engine.  I would probably put BBK on my People 50 before I would put on this S9.

I am debating whether to get the Malossi variator or not.  Except for the clutch slipping too much, I really liked the way it ran so far.  Maybe don't need Malossi variator?  However, Malossi variator was huge on my People 50 2T, I love it on that scooter.  Need to do a little more testing before I order another one.  I think the Malossi variator will be easier on the clutch and may get it for that reason.

Cheers

1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

chaz35

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2015, 06:41:10 PM »
I pulled the CVT cover and disassembled the clutch.  The clutch has red fly springs and yellow torque spring.  The rear pulley needed some attention.  It had a metal torsion controller that was incorrectly installed on the pulley side and was binding the torque spring.  Also, the torque driver mechanism was low on grease and showed signs of being dry.

I used some high temp grease I use on kart clutches.  I researched the Malossi grease and found my grease had a higher melting point, so I think it will work well, maybe better than the Malossi grease.  Nothing special about the grease, just need high melting point IMO.  Kart clutches generally get a lot of abuse because you only have one gear and have to slip the clutch a lot at lower speeds.  With a kart, it’s easy to burn up a clutch.  I have seen more than a few burned up kart clutches over the years.  Scooters have very cool CVT's, don't need to slip the clutch much if your CVT is working well IMO.

I cleaned it all up, greased the torque driver mechanism and installed the Malossi torsion controller.  I put it all back together with 6.5g Dr Pulley sliders, Malossi torsion controller 2512828, red fly springs (unknown brand) and yellow torque spring (unknown brand).  It has OEM Kymco belt approx. 17mm wide.

It took it for a long test run and was surprised how it fast it was, it’s a monster compared to before.  It used to have a spot where it would hit afterburner for a little after you got rolling.  Now, it’s on afterburner all the time.  It’s maybe is a little past peak torque/ HP, and is pretty racey.  It is very drivable, just a lag to get it rev'd up to get going, but once you are rolling feels great.  I can tell gas mileage is gone, engine is working harder and you can almost see the gas gauge move lower.

I used to hang with cagers from the red lights, now I blow by them 0 to 40mph on the speedo.  I limit top speed to approx 80k/ 50mph on the speedo and the faster cars catch and past me down the road a ways.  Great fun, made me want to sell my People 50 2T and buy another Super 9 LC.  There is one approx 500 miles round trip I have been looking at, maybe I will get it.

Next, I will try a softer torque spring.  I don’t have the OEM, but do have Malossi Green and Purple to try.  To save HP, I want to run the softest torque spring that will do the job.  I think the red fly springs are working OK, but generally think OEM fly springs are all you need.  If you have high HP engine with no low end torque you will need stiffer fly springs to slip the clutch more to get rolling.  With the 6.5g sliders, the CVT stays in low range, so it's not really working the clutch much anyway.  If you want to do wheelies, red fly springs are probably what you want, but I am not doing wheelies.

Wheelies are cool if that’s what you want to do, but think they are probably hard on your equipment,  At my age I would have a bad outcome and end up looking stupid, oh to be young again.  Cheers
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

TheAmishSasquatch

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 11:53:29 AM »
Nice update. Red clutch springs are usually 2000rpm. Try yellow 1500rpm springs. Im currently running a set and it provides great off the line acceration. I dont think I could pop a wheelie with them, but there is a noticable pull out of tbe hole shot. How do you like the Dr.Pulley sliders compared to rollers? Are the weights comparable between the two types? I seem to remember reading tha sliders tend to act .5-1g heavier weight to weight vs rollers. 

chaz35

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2015, 06:09:21 AM »
Plan to install OEM fly springs and torque spring.

I don't really like the red fly springs, takes too long to get rpms up, too busy for street riding with too many red lights/ stop signs.  I like the way my People 50 runs with OEM springs better.  Maybe slower, but more fun to ride IMO.  I am leaving 6.5 Dr Pulley sliders with red fly springs and yellow torque spring until I can get the OEM parts.  I think this set-up will be easy on the clutch and works OK for the time being.  May be awhile til next update.

I plan to repack the pipe next.
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

Triesandluth

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2015, 08:52:41 PM »
Nice write up!  Keep us posted!
Almost...at...speed...limit... Aww, brake lights..

chaz35

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 04:53:55 AM »
Waiting for some OEM parts to come in, but noticed was sounding off on top end.  Wasn't sure what it was, but didn't sound good.  I thought maybe reeds, but running too well to be reeds.  I repacked the muffler to see if that would help.

Actually, I repacked the muffler several times before I got it the way I wanted.  I used some packing for a kart muffler, nice stuff held together with stitching.  I didn't realize how nice it was until I started looking to buy some packing and watched a few vids on how to pack a muffler.  The available cheap stuff (approx $10 shipped) is coarse hi-temp fiber glass and you need to use gloves to protect your hands. 

I have used this kart stuff to pack the kart muffler several times and never used gloves.  So, if you repack your muffler with the cheaper motocross stuff, better wear gloves.  No real science to repacking muffler, watch a few vids to get the idea and go for it.  After having it apart several times, I think the Tecnigas muffler is well designed and made, didn't really have any problems with it.  It is challenging to get the packing tight just right and get it all stuffed back together, just have to work at it.  Anyway, repacking the muffler was good, seems like ran better and a little quieter.

I also had engine loose power a couple of times when I was getting back on the gas, and realized my plug was bad.  I replaced the spark plug, new plug helped, but still had bad sound.  I finally figured out it was 4 cycling, so I rejetted the carb from 105 main jet to 102 and left the slow jet at 42.  That made a huge difference.  It's still probably too rich, next I will try the next smaller main jet, probably 100.

Before I worked on the CVT, I think the engine was lugged down enough so it didn't 4 cycle because it was under a load and needed to be too rich to keep from bogging.  Now the CVT stays in low gear and the engine is wound up working harder in the power band and doesn't need to be as rich to get good throttle response.  The weather is warmer, so it may just be the weather, but I think it is also the better performing CVT that requires leaner jetting.  I think it's making more HP all around.  Acceleration is amazing, and cruising it likes approx 1/4" past 50mph/ 80k, where before it liked right at 50mph/ 80k mark, so I think it likes to cruise approx 5mph faster. 

I used to blow though some intersections a little faster than I would like because I didn't want to loose momentum.  I was even thinking might be safer to have faster scooter, like 150cc 4T.  I have enough power/ acceleration now I have started to slow down more though questionable intersections and can get back up to speed quickly without slowing the traffic behind me.

I think I am pretty close to having CVT optimized, just a little too busy for me with 2000rpm fly springs.

Cheers
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

Triesandluth

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 07:14:05 PM »
Heads up,  scooter works has some malossi cvt parts on clearance that should fit the s9,  up to half off.  I'm trying to avoid spending any money there,  but the prices are so good!

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Triesandluth

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Re: CVT tuning
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2015, 01:09:59 AM »
Got the malossi Variator installed.  I'm making a thread for it.

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