KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Yager GT 200i => Topic started by: MotoRandy123 on December 27, 2012, 07:56:16 PM
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I'm looking to get some Dr Pulley sliders for the Yager and they recommend going 1 gm
less than the stock weights. I don't have anything accurate enough to weigh them. On a
German thread they said 17.5 gm for the originals but I have heard 16 gm too. Anyone
know for sure? The official Dr. Pulley source (Buggy Parts store) only shows 16 gm sliders
which would be fine if the orignals are 17.5 but you would want 15 gm if they are 16 to start...
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My wife does a lot of sales on E-Bay, so we have a small postage scale. If you don't have one, go to the Post Office and ask them to weigh them. If you have to, put all six of them in a envelope and just divide the combined weight by six.
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What about the size of the OEM rollers?
That would be useful for reference.
Regarding the weight, I was going to recommended the same thing.
Some Post Offices have self postage machines. Weigh all of them and divide by the number of rollers.
Good luck and let us know if the Dr Pulley sliders help.
I would like to add them to lower the RPM on top speed.
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Well mine are not stock weight anymore, I tried adding weight, then removing weight,
then adding some back, so who knows if they are even close to stock.
The stocker's are called 20 x 15 (they may be 20 x 14.8 in real life) and I thought they were
speced at 16 gm in this forum somewhere. I did order the sliders at 16 gm as I prefer a calmer
engine. Though some report no difference with stock weight and better acceleration and top speed
with lighter ones. It's weird that most of the Yager's contemporaries use lighter rollers (12 - 14 gm).
I won't get a chance to try them until spring though. We have 8" of snow here and more on the way!
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Thanks!
Sucks for the snow... :-(
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I think this is the German site you were referring to:
http://www.kymco-ersatzteilshop.de/index.php?cat=3557&pos=22121-LEA5-E00 (http://www.kymco-ersatzteilshop.de/index.php?cat=3557&pos=22121-LEA5-E00)
It says they're 20x15 at 17.5 grams.
{UPDATE 14 May 2013}
I just got an email back from Dr. Pulley, they claim the weight of the rollers in the Yager is 16.5 grams.
{UPDATE 17 MAR 2014}
I just bought a digital scale that's accurate to 1/100th of a gram. Our OEM roller weights are 17.5 grams.
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I put the 16g sliders in but didn't like them. I had modded my variator to get a wider range of ratios
on the stock setup (but it didn't do much) and the sliders would rev to 9000 RPM's! They held a higher
rev at cruising speed too so I went back to stock. Anyone want to buy some slightly used sliders?
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Yeah, I'm going to order the 20 gram sliders directly from Dr. Pulley in Taiwan. My wife's in Taiwan right now, so she can go pick them up, and ship them to me. If 20 grams is too heavy, I'll drop to 18 grams and see if those work.
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My wife does a lot of sales on E-Bay, so we have a small postage scale. If you don't have one, go to the Post Office and ask them to weigh them. If you have to, put all six of them in a envelope and just divide the combined weight by six.
This works, or pretend that the rollers are bananas at the grocery store.
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Yager 200i, Did you ever get to try the 20 or 18 gram sliders you said your wife was going to buy? If so how did they work out?
modmaster
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Yager 200i, Did you ever get to try the 20 or 18 gram sliders you said your wife was going to buy? If so how did they work out?
My wife went to Dr. Pulley in Taiwan, and they told her they no longer make custom weighted sliders. I got the idea to order direct from them, from them... their website said if you wanted to order a different size or weight, to contact them, but apparently that's changed.
So I'll order the heaviest they've got for our scooter (16 grams), and fill in the center with epoxy or something to increase the weight a bit.
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I modded mine with epoxy and they went from 16 gm to 17.8.
I haven't tried them yet...
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I might make a metal plug for each one that fits snugly inside the metal tube of the slider, then epoxy that in... I'd be able to weigh each slider, add the weight of the metal plug, and estimate the weight of the epoxy, to balance them all out. If any of them are heavier than the others, I can drill very tiny holes through that metal plug until the weight is the same as the others.
Another way I was thinking of doing it was:
Put each slider in boiling water to make the plastic pliable. Slip the plastic off the metal tube, then heat up the metal tube to a couple hundred degrees and cool off the metal plug to freezing to cause thermal expansion (metal tube) and contraction (metal plug). Of course, I'd have to be within a couple thousandths of an inch of a perfect fit to begin with, but I can do that on the lathe. When everything cooled down / warmed back up, it'd be a tight fit, locked together. Then boil the plastic part again, and press the metal tube back in with a Dake press. That'd do away completely with the epoxy, allowing me to weigh each piece and custom grind the metal plugs to ensure each slider is exactly the right weight.
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Um why not boil them and remove the core then make new solid cores and stick those in the plastic?
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Yeah, I suppose I could do that. I'd have to experiment a bit to get the weight just right, and I'd have to polish the outer surface of the weight so it didn't tear up the plastic as I was pressing it back in, but that wouldn't be too hard.
I was hoping to make something were I could press the old weight out and a new one in just by putting the slider into boiling water to expand the metal tube, then putting the slider into a Dake press. In that way, I could experiment with different weights to find the best one, without having to remove the plastic each time.
Another idea I had was to make a rubber stopper arrangement, with an identical weight on each side of the stopper. It'd have a bolt going through it, with a union nut on the other side with a head on it. Tighten the bolt, it squeezes the rubber stopper, and locks the weight into place inside the metal tube. To put a different weight in, just loosen the bolt, remove the assembly from the metal tube, unscrew the bolt from the union nut, slide off the old weights, slide on the new ones, and reassemble.
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ok have a question
just replaced the sliders in the yager and x250
x250 the belt rides on the both side pulleys a rest , seems to engage at about 2500, very nice
yager belt has a gap between the pulleys I would assume that that is why it engages at aprox 35-4k dont like as much
yaker has less then 2000 miles so I would assume the belt is not worn that much
x250 23x18 x22 gram drpulley sliders
yager 20x15 x18 sliders
both bikes are better on the hywy but less take off
so after all that is there a wider belt or is my belt worn that much
a lot of you are sounding like its normal to engage at 4k
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My Yager engages at 4000rpm also and that's the way it was since new. You don't have much low end torque at anything under 4000rpm so that is why the factory set it up that way. A larger engine like your 250 has greater low end torque plus it may have been tuned for greater torque and less high rpm power from the factory besides. Transmission gearing could be lower also. All these factors come in to play when comparing one scooters engagement rpm from the others. I did a lot of playing around with the DrPulley HiT clutch in my 07 400 Burgman. You could set it to engage at almost any rpm you wanted to.
modmaster
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Deglaze the clutch on your Yager, it should start engaging at about 3500 RPM, be pulling strong by 4000 RPM, and be fully engaged by ~4500 RPM.
There's two ways of doing it, either heat the clutch by putting the bike on the main stand, lock the rear brake and run the engine up to WOT for 15 seconds, let it cool down for 15 minutes, then do it again. Or take the clutch apart and hit the clutch shoes and clutch housing with emory cloth.
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I had an Aprilia and it engaged at 2500 but took seconds to begin to accelerate. I put aftermarket
clutch springs in and it engaged at 4000 and took off instantly.
I thought about getting the Yager to engage lower as I modded the vario and it would start changing the ratio
then the clutch would engage and yank the belt back down. I didn't like that and could only think of adding
weight to the clutch arms or getting softer springs for them. They only make firmer springs for a higher RPM
engagement and it's difficult to add weight with the tools I have so I gave up on the idea.
I have managed to lower the cruise RPM to around 5500 and like the mellow character. The takeoff RPM doesn't
bother me too much anymore....
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thanks guys just wondering
I think its great how it is, its way more relaxed on the hywy
it was way to easy to be way into redline before
also I have a large givi windscreen on it so top end is low 60s anyways
it doesn't have the hp to push that windscreen any faster
but rides great
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Installed my second set of original-equipment rollers last week, with 6616 miles on the clock. Stock rollers are 20mm x 15mm and 17.5gm. With fresh rollers, throttle response returned to as it was new: Clutch grabs around 3500rpm. With WOT applied from a stop, RPM climbs to 7000rpm (horsepower peak) and stays there until the transmission variates. Then, it climbs to 8000rpm (and beyond).
Today, I swapped in a set of Dr. Pulley 20mm x 15mm sliders, listed as 18gm weight. I chose 18gm based on proposal that sliders behave like lighter conventional rollers. With the 18gm sliders, the most obvious change in performance has been when WOT is applied from a stop: RPM climbs to 6250rpm (torque peak) at launch and winds up to 7000rpm by 28mph indicated and stays there until variation occurs.
I'm not a huge believer in the accuracy of the "butt dyno" for detecting small changes in performance, but I don't own a motorcycle dyno. Initially, the bike "felt" slower due to the change in effective engine speed. For purpose of comparison, I went to my favorite intersection for a few acceleration tests. There are five lanes to cross, plus about 200ft from the intersection line to a 40mph speed limit sign. Historically, after a tune-up, I could launch from 3000rpm at this intersection and register 38mph on the speedometer as I pass the sign. Today, with the new rollers, I was able to make repeated runs from the stop line to the sign with a 3000rpm launch and see 42mph on the speedometer.
The one true observation I can propose is that the rollers have had an effect on how the transmission applies engine power. My hypothesis is that the launch at the torque peak has improved the bike's 0-30 performance. The change in registered speed at my target sign is improved by the fact that the bike is now doing 30mph by the time it crosses the intersection. I'm not a little guy (260lbs), so the performance change might be more dramatic for a lighter rider.
A secondary, less demonstrable observation that I've made is that it takes a bit less engine speed to maintain road speed and that minor changes in engine speed seem to have less of an effect on road speed. This was, IMO, a happy accident. On new Kymco rollers, I would register 6000rpm at 48mph, and an engine speed decrease of 100rpm would cause the indicated speed to fall to 45mph. With the 18gm sliders, I register 6000rpm and 52mph. Reducing the throttle by 100rpm does not result in an immediate loss of speed. When the speed does decrease, it does not drop in 3mph increments. Rather, I saw a gradual decrease in 1mph increments. I don't know how many of your Yager riders find the "fussy" throttle a bit annoying, but this once change in behavior might be worth the price of 18gm sliders alone if it's something that bothers you.
When I have some time, I'm taking the bike out the Interstate to see if there has been any change in top speed. With the old rollers, my cutoff speed (9250rpm) has fallen to 69mph, from a max of 72mph when just broken in. Hopefully, I can raise the max a touch closer to YagerGT200i's reported top speed.
In the interest of full disclosure, the bike is still running it's original belt. It's worn less than .5mm, so I'm not sure how much that will change things. I'm also on my original rear tire. It's worn by about half tread depth; again, I'm not sure how much of an impact it has on performance.
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What speed do expect it can do?
The only max speed rating I ever saw was this one 109 km/h = 68 mph
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It'll do more than 68 MPH, for sure. Mine has hit 79 MPH, but you have to have air temperature, humidity, etc. just right for the engine to want to sing like that. And I was *way* over red-line... just below where it starts cutting out.
I've been thinking about the Dr. Pulley sliders... I was only able to find the 16 gram sliders (az_slynch, please tell us where you got your 18 gram sliders), but the OEM rollers are listed as 17.5 grams... so perhaps the metal cores of the OEM rollers are heavier than the Dr. Pulley sliders... I'm wondering if I could slide the metal cores out of the OEM rollers, put them in the Dr. Pulley sliders, and have 17 or 18 gram sliders. Something I'll have to investigate... gotta find a scale that can accurately measure in grams, though.
I'll do that (and experiment with other methods of increasing slider weight) on the next service of the clutch and variator.
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Sorry for the delay, I've had that wonderful could that's been going around and work's been crazy; haven't had a chance to ride lately. Hoping to go out this weekend and see where top speed as gone too. Fitted my Simota filter as well, trying to decide if I should disconnect the battery and "reset" the ECU first.
I got my sliders from Scooter Assassins in Taiwan. Bit of a delay due to customs in LA, so it took almost a month to arrive. They're a bit spendy too.
http://www.exportstrength.com/index.php?cPath=2520_8513_8777 (http://www.exportstrength.com/index.php?cPath=2520_8513_8777)
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Quick update: Finally got out to ride a bit last night. No highway runs, but I was clocking 64mph at 8000rpm in places I shouldn't have. Performance wise, the bike may be quicker to 40, but it seems slower from 50-60. From an idle and full stop at a traffic light, it took me a smidge under .5 miles to get from 0-64mph. Not sure how this stacks up to other Yagers, as I only know of one other guy in town with one and I hardly ever see him.
A highway run will come soon, spent today working on turning a friends three junky Vespa GT200s into one viable bike. It's harder than it sounds!
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New Top Speed: 74mph at 9000RPM!
New Michelin Power Pure SC tires, 18gr Dr. Pulley sliders, Simota high-flow filter and Denso iridium plug. Still on original belt, belt has at least .5mm of wear (measured at 5200 miles, has 7300 miles now).
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I see a full range of weights avail
http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-259_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights (http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-259_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights)
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I'm thinking about 17g.
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I see a full range of weights avail
http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-259_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights (http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-259_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights)
Mmm, is that all? I see 69mph (on the odo) consistently on my bone stock 900 mi Yager & i've still not switched to synthetic engine oil but do use RedLine synth gear oil in the rear...and i'm up in Colorado where you loose hp.
I'd like the DR pulleys just for smoother acceleration with the exact same characteristics other wise to oem.
That's why i'm thinking 17g
It's funny on the MP3 400 boards that variator also uses a 17.5g oem roller and the earlier DR pulley adopters all went 15 & 16g with the later tuners finding that 17 & 18g was more ideal.
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I'm running 20 g Dr. Pulley sliders right now, and they're just about perfect if you've done a hard break-in of your engine and it's torquey. Just FYI.
I've got a set of 21 g sliders I'll be putting in soon to test.