KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Yager GT 200i => Topic started by: DaveABQ on May 10, 2012, 06:05:27 PM
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I bought the Yager recently, traded in to a dealer that wasn't a kymco dealer, guy dropped it over on its side, so had some scrapes on the right side, ordered all the parts for it and dealer said it also had a battery draining issue. I paid less than half the cost of a new one, scooter was mint shape other than the scrapes which I already ordered the panels, $184 shipped, and the battery draining issue.
So I pulled off the negative wire on the battery, put a test light between the battery terminal and the wire i pulled off, it is not lighting up the test light, could be the 12v/5w light needs to be less. I put a DVM on it set on amps, measures .003 amp drain. So may put on a LED to see if it lights it up, need to run to radio shack to pick one up.
I left the key in last night after putting the wire back on the battery, put the key in the lock position, and had no drain overnight. I've seen problems on motorcycles where the ignition caused the drain, but not sure yet what is draining the battery on the yager.
The yager is charging the battery correctly, but when sitting has a slow drain. Just wondering if anyone has seen this on their vehicle or another Kymco?
I did read about someone removing the bulb for the light in the met-in box, but thats not the problem on my machine, it is something else.
If I can get a constant drain and be able to see on the test light, I can remove fuses one by one to figure out the area that is causing the drain and go from there, just looking for advice or anyone else that has experienced this.
Thanks.
Dave.
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Not on mine, Dave. But you are on the right track in finding the problem. Guessing it could be a bad rectifier in the regulator.
Karl
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Not on mine, Dave. But you are on the right track in finding the problem. Guessing it could be a bad rectifier in the regulator.
Karl
yea Karl, that could be the problem. This morning I used some CRC Electrical Cleaner and sprayed in the key hole, man they put that dielectric grease in there too, rotated key back and forth several times to all positions, the battery is not draining. Will keep and eye on it and report back, the yager only has 108 miles on it.
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I'm the one who removed the met-in bulb, (I still don't miss it, I carry a flashlight). I don't know about the drain problem but I just had to replace my battery. What is the thought on the grease? I found a creamy colored grease? surrounding my fuses. If it is a conductor it could be draining my battery. Should I clean it all out or leave it there? I don't know how it can be helping unless it is to control corrosion.
Richard L.
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clean the top of the battery if it looks dirty or moist. that can cause a small drain.
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fshfindr, it is a dielectric grease, non-conductive, they get carried away with it, it is in all connectors, it won't short anything, but since it is non conductive, it can actually cause a poor connection from my experience
ok, mine is fixed, there is only two things I did, i had disconnected the battery, first the negative cable to use a 12v troubleshooting light, and I cleaned the connections, a poor battery connection will affect other things, however it will not cause a battery drain
second thing I did was to clean out the ignition with CRC Electrical cleaner, that same dielectric grease was in the key hole, when I sprayed it in, that crap came out....
Been riding it around a few miles and checking the battery, it is working fine, it is charging good when the machine is running, and not drain on the battery....
the drain was one of the reasons I got it for cheap, less than $1800 out the door. The dealer was not a Kymco dealer, they took it on trade, so worked a deal with them.
So far so good, will report back if any other issues.
S/W, battery is new in the machine, the only thing the dealer did was swap the battery twice with new ones.
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(a poor battery connection will affect other things, however it will not cause a battery drain)
True, but, this fools alot of people into thinking it is a battery drain, when actually the dirty terminals are preventing a good charge. I have had guys clean terminals and still not get a good connection. No matter who worked on a problem before you, always start from the beginning.
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It is not a big problem regarding Battery Draining Issue from your motorbike. I would suggest every one that servicing your bike regularly. Go for authentic service center. The solution of Battery Draining is to be change battery with in 6 months.
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(a poor battery connection will affect other things, however it will not cause a battery drain)
True, but, this fools alot of people into thinking it is a battery drain, when actually the dirty terminals are preventing a good charge. I have had guys clean terminals and still not get a good connection. No matter who worked on a problem before you, always start from the beginning.
yep, seen the same thing, i ride ATV's alot, with mud, dirt, dust, routine maintenance is good. I use Penetrox on the battery connections.
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I bought the Yager recently, traded in to a dealer that wasn't a kymco dealer, guy dropped it over on its side, so had some scrapes on the right side, ordered all the parts for it and dealer said it also had a battery draining issue. I paid less than half the cost of a new one, scooter was mint shape other than the scrapes which I already ordered the panels, $184 shipped, and the battery draining issue.
So I pulled off the negative wire on the battery, put a test light between the battery terminal and the wire i pulled off, it is not lighting up the test light, could be the 12v/5w light needs to be less. I put a DVM on it set on amps, measures .003 amp drain. So may put on a LED to see if it lights it up, need to run to radio shack to pick one up.
I left the key in last night after putting the wire back on the battery, put the key in the lock position, and had no drain overnight. I've seen problems on motorcycles where the ignition caused the drain, but not sure yet what is draining the battery on the yager.
The yager is charging the battery correctly, but when sitting has a slow drain. Just wondering if anyone has seen this on their vehicle or another Kymco?
I did read about someone removing the bulb for the light in the met-in box, but thats not the problem on my machine, it is something else.
If I can get a constant drain and be able to see on the test light, I can remove fuses one by one to figure out the area that is causing the drain and go from there, just looking for advice or anyone else that has experienced this.
Thanks.
Dave.
I am totally agree with you that Battery Draining Issues are to be consider as a most awaiting for every one. It could be healthy discussion about this topic.
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A bad battery can drain itself. Maybe the PO let it sit a lot?
Has anyone replaced the Met-In light with a LED?
You can check the alternator by running it and use a meter to read the voltage.
It should read around 14V, 16v will boil the battery and 13v will not charge enough.
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I bought a used 2010 and have the same issue. >:(
2 new agm batteries tried so those are good.
Met in light gone.
Ground and positive wires all cleaned, di-electric greased & tight.
Charging system works. Rests at 12.5v Charges at 13.75v.
I need to attach a battery tender each night or starting is weak. When weak, When I press starter the starter pauses for a second then cranks, almost like there is a tight bind somewhere. If it sits for a week starting impossible till I charge it again.
Starting is hard and inconsistent too. Does not fire every time & just cranks. Has 1000mi & new NGK iridium plug.
If I attach my lithium jump start battery she fires up strong & fast every time. Thought about putting a lithium battery in there but a new agm battery should start this anyway. It's a new scorpion agm with 175cc so a solid battery.
Any ideas before I get rid of this thing???
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So maybe my charging system is not putting out enough as I read charging at 14.5v is the norm? Still have other issue, maybe connected, because if it sits for a few days the starting is weak.
I either have a slow drain or something in the motor/starter is tight & binding. Any ideas???
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Maybe some bad grounds where there are supposed to be good grounds: grounding points. Usually studs welded to frame with several lugs held on with a nut. There is one usually close to the battery, starter and start relay (solenoid). There is a big, fat one on the engine, usually on the right-hand side. Older bikes prone to funky grounding points. Make the battery look bad. Take 'em apart, clean 'em, slather some dielectric grease on 'em and re-assemble. Check where the terminals are crimped on the wires. re-crimp if you see any green or white corrosion. You may have to replace a lug if the corrosion is really bad.
Karl
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I've cleaned all the electrical connections I can find.
Is there another ground to the engine besides the one to the starter? If so, I don't see it.
This is frustrating as it's so inconsistent. Sometimes it starts strong and fires up fast. Sometimes the starter stalls when starting then turns over but then does turn over & fire up. Other times it just cranks and does not fire. It's like it's flooded and I need to hold open the throttle & crank to fire it.
I'm my searching I did find the hose/vent from the intake up to the rear was cut open. This hose Ts into the intake hose and is the one closest to the throttle body. It then runs up the side frame and back near the rear light. What is it? It was rubbing against the round frame bumper assy and was cut open. The metal on the edge is very sharp. I taped & shrink-wrapped it and moved it away.
Check yours! Still runs the same...maybe slightly better idle.
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so i checked the battery today.
engine off it sits 12.5v
engine on it registers 14.04v from idle to being reved. never goes above or below that.
is 14v enough to be charging?
when i have a charged battery (from a tender jr) starts great.
if i turn it off, then turnkey/lights back on (but no start)
the battery drain down to 10v in about 45 secs and then holds there in voltage but will not start.
this seems very quick to drop that much in voltage so basically I have seconds for a good start...no reserve.
this is a new battery (scorpion yt12 175cca) and replaced another battery that was a week old and was not starting.
any idea what is going on here? or what i should check next???
i'll take battery to parts store and do a load test just to confirm but i don't think it's a battery...something in the engine is causing a massive voltage draw.
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I think that hose that runs aft goes the the vapor can. A hole in that one would really affect the mixture!
Karl
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so i checked the battery today.
engine off it sits 12.5v
engine on it registers 14.04v from idle to being reved. never goes above or below that.
is 14v enough to be charging?
when i have a charged battery (from a tender jr) starts great.
if i turn it off, then turnkey/lights back on (but no start)
the battery drain down to 10v in about 45 secs and then holds there in voltage but will not start.
this seems very quick to drop that much in voltage so basically I have seconds for a good start...no reserve.
this is a new battery (scorpion yt12 175cca) and replaced another battery that was a week old and was not starting.
any idea what is going on here? or what i should check next???
i'll take battery to parts store and do a load test just to confirm but i don't think it's a battery...something in the engine is causing a massive voltage draw.
Your battery voltage dropping to 10V in 45 seconds and staying there is a very bad indicator.
A lead acid battery is considered empty at 10.5 Volts, and your max. charging voltage should never exceed 14.5Volts.
Do you have access to another battery to try?
If I understand you right, you have a new battery in your scooter. Please consider that a brand new battery can be faulty too (partial internal short). Rarely but it's possible. I know from experience.
If you want to thoroughly check your battery, to rule that out of the equation, you need access to a computerized R/C battery charger. Using that charger try to fully charge your battery on the Pb setting at 1/10C rating. (for example: if your battery capacity is 10Ah then charge at 1A current) Then discharge the battery at 1/5C to 10.5V and see discharged mAh's. If you get less than 70% of the rated capacity out, then you can consider that battery dead.
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ok brought my neighbor in to test some things.
bike started strong 3 times then died on the 4th
we are guessing when the engine starts it has a ground fault to the frame and dumping juice.
do not have an overnight battery drain issue.
this does not happen every time however???
this is the run down:
-battery holds 12.5v when sitting for days - good
-scooter charges at 14v consistently - good
-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire draws 0.01 key on or off - low, good
-continuity is 0 on the negative battery side to all frame points and engine - good
-continuity is 0 from positive battery to starter relay battery side - good
-no continuity across the starter relay when off - good
-continuity is 0 from the starter side of the relay to where the possitive attaches to the starter
PLUS is 0 to all ground points on frame/engine??? Is this normal??? - not good???
-small voltage is seen on the frame ground to negative battery when trying to start? not good?
the big ? is there continuity on the hot side of the stater to the frame?
logic tells us no.
do I have a bad or inconsistent starter?
thanks!
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ok here are things i tested in this order.
battery fully charged overnight.
cold engine
key off - .01 amp draw between neg battery & ground. no parasitic drain.
key on - 5.40 amp draw. normal range?
key off - 12.8v
key on - holds steady at 11.9v for well over a minute (no drop)
engine starts like a champ & runs well.
13.9v while running
turn engine off for 1 minute
key off - 12.5v
key on - voltage drops quickly to bellow 11 in less than 30 sec
will not start now.
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so I get 1 good start, then something happens?
heading now to parts store to test load ability of battery.
normally I would say this is a bad battery, but it's the 3rd in a row so something is causing batteries to fail???
PO added a tender because of starting problems.
shop I bought from added a new battery (traditional Interstate) when delivered, as the one in there had problems.
this battery failed after a few day, so I bought the biggest AGM that would fit (175cca).
this battery is failing after a week.
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i see the ground from the frame to the starter.
is there another main ground from frame to engine? don't see it if so?
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voltage drop while starting from 2 points (fresh charged battery) Poor connection between battery and starter, could be starter relay contacts, battery connections or anything else in the path.
-connected direct to battery: 10.6v or so see on tester while starting.
-connected to positive & negative on starter: 8.6v or
It happens so fast but that is approx a 2v difference.
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Took battery to parts store.
well the battery is fully charged, but only 90% and did test bad.
taking the previous battery back to parts store and see how that test.
found out the previous owner replaced the factory battery too before he traded (got sick of this problem?) it in.
so in 1000 miles this engine has gone thru 4 batteries. 2 in the last 2 months while I owned it.
i can't be believe that it was 4 bad batteries in a row.
something is killing these batteries.
what next?
Thanks!
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think I found a/the problem.
started digging into the alternator charging coil, ignition pulse sensor & reg/rec
-alternator charging coil (yellow wires from motor) all in spec (.05 ohm & no ground continuity) - good
-Ignition pulse sensor (from motor) 101.5 ohm (spec 106 ohm) - close enough?
-reg/rec yellow wires (connects to charging coil yellow) no ohms (spec is .04-.06) - problem!
so the reg/rec seems bad (no ohms on the yellow wires) but I was still getting 14v charging to the battery? does this seem right? the 14v was steady no matter the rpm from idle to high rpm. thought this was odd as I was expecting it to be lower at idle.
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so if my RR is bad anyone use these guys vs oem?
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-12666-regulator-rectifier-for-kymco-venox-250-xciting-300500.aspx (http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-12666-regulator-rectifier-for-kymco-venox-250-xciting-300500.aspx)
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/kymco-yager-200i-electric-c-2_17636-1.html?newcPathco=21 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/kymco-yager-200i-electric-c-2_17636-1.html?newcPathco=21)
or all these just Chinese
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator%2Frectifier&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xkymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier.TRS0&_nkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator%2Frectifier&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xkymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier.TRS0&_nkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier&_sacat=0)
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Well I got the scooter running again.
I purchased a new starter, reg/rec (updated design with larger heat sink) and starter relay plus a new Yuasa battery.
The new starter turned easier when I do it by hand too.
All parts are Taiwan made, avoid Chinese mainland ones.
She starts strong now and I'm getting 14.25v charging. It was less than 14v before.
Tough to say 100% the issue but I have a consistently strong starting Kymco now.
ps Anyone with a Kymco can probably upgrade to this better reg/rec design.
Bolts right up and seems it fits all FI models.
images and part # here
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/need-help-with-a-kymco-starting-issue.1168819/page-4#post-31626661 (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/need-help-with-a-kymco-starting-issue.1168819/page-4#post-31626661)