KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => People 250 => Topic started by: axy on February 07, 2009, 11:10:06 PM
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Just wanted to say hello. Purchased People 250 S + Givi 42, should be here on Monday.
My girlfriend has Agility 125, 1 year old, 7500 km on it and Piaggio NRG 2003 with 26.000 kms. First owner.
It will be 10 years exclusively on two wheels for me next week. It all started in 1999 with Piaggio Zenith 50. Then Kymco Cobra 50, Piaggio NRG extreme 50 liquid cooled (upgraded to 72 cc), NRG 50 mc3 liquid cooled, 2003 Piaggio Beverly 200 (sold it yesterday to a friend after happy 30.000 km in the past 3.5 years) and Kawasaki ZR-7S.
I read almost all messages on the forum - strange that there are no more posters?
Greetings to Jprestonian - I am the one who bothers him from time to time. ;)
All the best to Kymco owners from Rijeka, Croatia.
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You're no bother at all. :)
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Im getting my people s 250 friday. How does the acceleration compare to the BV200 you had?
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Im getting my people s 250 friday. How does the acceleration compare to the BV200 you had?
It is interesting that S250 has just one horsepower more yet the difference in acceleration is big.
I would almost say it is like comparing 250 with 400 cc scooters, especially up the hill.
I guess it has to do with 25 % more displacement, torque and strokexbore dimensions.
There is a long 17 % slope on the way home where I could typically go around 85 km/h with Bev if I come from the bottom of the hill at full speed. With S250 I can achieve effortlessly 100 km/h even when it is very hot.
People has around 5-10 km/h higher top speed than Beverly. Also the transmission is different, People can achieve higher top speed downhill: Beverly would not exceed reported 135 km/h while I have seen indicated 155+ km/h, downhill, of course.
The biggest difference is in the brakes, double front disk on People is much more powerful and the fact that Beverly does not corner easily compared to People. Yet, there are things I miss from Piaggio - Kymco has installed battery under the seat rather than in the tail section so a large portion of the underseat storage is inaccessible. Also, there is a question of styling, most people think that People fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch down, yet I do not care much about all that.
Also, I got a special deal so if I wanted to buy new Beverly 250i, I would have to pay approx. 35 % (!!!!!!!!!) more than what I gave for People,l so this was really a good offer.
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Awesome. Well im very excited for mine. Brand new, black, and 4100 out the door.
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Regular 3rd inspection/maintenance at 6000 kms (3750 miles).
1. Oil leak on the right side, where the circular polished metal "lid" with Kymco logo is... allegedly some rubber gasket or something... fixed.
2. Very small oil leak on the transmission shaft due to faulty 3$ metal seal that goes on top of the radial ball-bearing. Unfortunately, this spare part was not on stock so I will have to come again next week to have it replaced.
These two are fixed under warranty.
Well, not exactly a pinnacle of supreme-hyper-ultimate quality as it is touted to be, but well, no bigger issues in the first half a year on the road.
Hope I will not follow jprestonian`s footsteps.
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Welcome aboard! I hang out at my local scooter shop a lot these days because I befriended the scooter mechanic. It started off with me asking him a thousand questions about my scooter. But he happily answers all my questions because he knows its me fixing the scooter and not him. I bought my wife a 2006 Kymco people 250. Yet lately I find that I have been driving it like crazy. I love the acceleration. Here's the thing about your scooters minor problems. I have been at the shop when a semi truck loaded with Kymcos, Syms, and Genuines roll up. And believe it or not, some of them are damaged right out the box. The way the companies package them are really unacceptable. The crates that hold up the scooters are made out of cardboard, plastic, or styrofoam. So when the crate gets damaged during transportation, the scooter gets damaged. So basically the mechanic takes the scooter from the crate, assembles it and gives it a once-over. Then orders all the broken things on it and has it shipped over to the shop. But all in all, I love the Kymco's quality. I find everything on it to be well made and well thought out. Like the well established Japanese motorcycle companies do. Also Kymco's dedication to the environment is far ahead of other scooter companies. I've been trying to research the emission output of scooters, and found that Kymco has catalytic converters in their massive exhaust. Other scooter companies have not bothered with this yet because the US Environmental Protection Agency has not mandated this yet. Please let me know how your steering feels. Just curious if it feels wobbly. I've found other People 250 owners have experienced this with older scoots.
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After half a year trying to find this information...
OEM roller weights in P S 250 - 23x18 20 g.
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Regular 3rd inspection/maintenance at 6000 kms (3750 miles).
1. Oil leak on the right side, where the circular polished metal "lid" with Kymco logo is... allegedly some rubber gasket or something... fixed.
2. Very small oil leak on the transmission shaft due to faulty 3$ metal seal that goes on top of the radial ball-bearing. Unfortunately, this spare part was not on stock so I will have to come again next week to have it replaced.
These two are fixed under warranty.
Well, not exactly a pinnacle of supreme-hyper-ultimate quality as it is touted to be, but well, no bigger issues in the first half a year on the road.
Hope I will not follow jprestonian`s footsteps.
After 1000 kms, again problem with #2 - oil leak around the seal.
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You might want to look at the seal to be sure it is installed in the correct direction. The "lip" must face inwards. I have seen too many mechanics repeat a factory mistake. I would also check the vent to be sure you are not building pressure that would cause it to blow. If all else fails an aftermarket set up may work better. Since yours seems to be the only one I would think there is an un seen problem.
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7300 km.
Jprestonian will like this post.
There is still this oil leak that began in the late summer so I brought the scoot to the mechanic for repeated inspection. After five days of testing he found out that there is a crack in the engine block caused by poor casting of the material where the oil has started slowly to leak out.
He has cleaned everything, took the pictures and he and importer will ask Kymco for a new engine block.
I will be probably without scoot for a long period of time, so I took out of the garage my gf's ex Piaggio NRG 50 today, checked gas, oil, tire pressure, washed and cleaned it thoroughly and off I go from Monday to work on old faithful 50 cc 2stroke.
I do not know if the story about Kymco as a premium brand of high quality still holds after all this.
I cannot recommend Kymcos to other people any more with a straight face, even if I have a "black swan" scooter and everybody else is very satisfied with build quality.
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Well, axy, I dunno. Nothing's perfect every time. Since my bike's been back together, it's performed like a champ. I'm guessing you'd find Hondas that have had bad castings, too.
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At least when you do get it back, you can sat it is in better than new condition. I'm sure it is the time factor that BITES! Keep smiling.
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Well, axy, I dunno. Nothing's perfect every time. Since my bike's been back together, it's performed like a champ. I'm guessing you'd find Hondas that have had bad castings, too.
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Yes, there are, there was a whole series of Honda CBR 1000 XX that had engine blocks replaced in the first few hundred kilometers because of that issue.
The problem is that people often speak about certain brands as premium and other brands as lower quality. Even you and me discussed about Chinese scooters (I gave an example of Keeway as extremely well built Chinese scooter).
Nowadays it is pretty much the same and my experience shows that Kymco is not what it is touted to be. I had a number of scooters in the past ten years, I ride 365 days per year and I can tell you that the only bikes where I had big problems were Kymcos. When I had Cobra 50 (in USA Top Boy), I had issue with low acceleration that was never fixed whatever the mechanics tried. On Italian scooters every now and then stupid things die - bulbs die regularly, so do turn signal switches and even long beam switch - but none of the major mechanic things ever broke. My ex. Beverly 200 has now around 35.000 kms, my colleague from the office is driving it and it looks as good as new. NRG at the picture is Aug/2003, 2 stroke, 26.000 kms, engine is completely intact... also, here the prices for spare parts of Italian scoots are 50 % of those for Kymcos (I realize it is vice versa in USA).
I do not care much about this little incident because I have other two scoots, two quads and a car I bought two weeks ago so I am not left without a vehicle, but I am a bit disappointed and during my next purchase I will carefully evaluate options - but probably again end up with Kymco because as I said, importer is a friend of mine and gets me a good deal and the mechanic is great too. I was even offered a replacement bike for the duration of repair!
p.s. When I had Kawasaki ZR-7S, I was listening fairy tales that Honda is the top of tops while Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki have lower quality. I never understood this story but maybe it originates from 50s or 60s and bikes from that era...
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People is back, the engine block is temporarily patched up with sealant.
The picture of the crack in the engine block is sent to Kymco asking for a new block considering that the scooter is still under warranty.
I wonder how long this will take.
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ouche!! much worse then the oil filter o ring failure I experienced yesterday on my Aprilia - but that was a little scary - no oil left when I found it - well there must have been some because it was still oozing - hopefully I did no major damage.
Keep us posted on how this plays out please.
:)>>
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Stress cracks will tend to run. I would not trust a "patch" as far as I was willing to walk. You are one of the few that has had a BRAND turning experience. (as far as Kymco is concerned) I truly hope they will compensate for the flaw. A TRUE customer is a LOYAL customer!
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So far, it is patched up and on the road (just came to work with it actually).
Here are the pics and the requested spare parts.
Btw. I am not turned off Kymco because of this. These things happen with all brands.
Better with Kymco People than Aston Martin. :) :) :)
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Holy Mackerel!
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..dang...
..dude that sucks...
:(
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This thread is turning into a diary.
The engine block and all gaskets have arrived from Taiwan in three weeks and scoot has been in the repair shop since Tuesday.
The engine block is replaced, I am waiting for the mechanic to assemble back the clutch and I should be good to go.
Meanwhile, I am driving around in a cage... so far having a good luck avoiding traffic jams.
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Diary's are good. The more info the better. Happy to here your scoot is coming along!
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Diary's are good. The more info the better. Happy to here your scoot is coming along!
Spoke with the mechanic, I am back on two wheels on Saturday.
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YEEEE...HAAWWWWW! Ride em axy!
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Picked up People 250S from the mechanic today.
Engine block is replaced with the one Kymco provided and Kymco requested old engine block to be sent back to them for further inspection!
Got a free maintenance too considering that it was disassembled (both engine and final gear oil replaced) *and* valve clearance adjustment! Last time it was done at 6000 kms and now it has 7600 kms.
My gf drove it back home, while I was driving car. The temperature is around freezing point + northern wind gusts. :o ::) :D
So, back on two wheels!
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Your GF sounds like a real trooper! You'd have a hard time getting me to ride at zero w/ you in the toasty warm 4 down. Good luck with the scoot.
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Your GF sounds like a real trooper! You'd have a hard time getting me to ride at zero w/ you in the toasty warm 4 down. Good luck with the scoot.
:)
Another two smaller issues that have just appeared,scoot is at 7800 km now.
1. The water temperature light is on for 60 seconds after starting the scooter when it`s cold outside. (<5 C) If the engine is warm or outside temperature is higher, the light goes off after one second or so. Very strange. The mechanic has contacted Kymco for explanation.
2. The met in box light and indicator light on the dashboard do not work after the scooter came back from the repair shop. The indicator light just goes on for one brief moment when I press the seat down to lock it
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Pull the switch for the light. I may just need to be cleaned, and re grounded. With all the service you had done there just may be a loose contact.
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Most likely, but it` -4 C the whole week and I have been working until 6 pm (no garage back home), so I have to wait for better weather.
I have another "feature" to declare. The reserve light of the gas tank goes on ONLY if the beam light is on and I push the "passing" button.
Let me elaborate on this. When the gas tank is on low, in the red, and the light that shows that the last liter of gasoline is being consumed should be on 100 %, it is off, and it goes on ONLY if I turn the lights on and then push the "passing" blinking button on the left handlebar.
Interestingly though, it does not work if the long beam is on. Just "passing" switch pushed.
;D ;D ;D
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Sounds like a missing ground somewhere. The secondary circuit is adding enough load to mimic a ground. They may all three be a related problem. The temp. sender also relies on ground to work right. I would try to look missing connectors, or a hanging ring terminal around the battery area.
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Sounds like a missing ground somewhere. The secondary circuit is adding enough load to mimic a ground. They may all three be a related problem. The temp. sender also relies on ground to work right. I would try to look missing connectors, or a hanging ring terminal around the battery area.
Will do that... just have to wait at least for wind to stop and ice to melt. :)
Tnx.
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Diary update.
People:
Today. 8222 km, 750 kms before the warranty expires.
The speedometer and tachometer stopped working this morning.
A125:
Frozen for the last week. Temperatures hover few degrees above freezing during the day and drop slightly below freezing overnight.
The gas throttle is solid frozen, so is the rear brake.
So, it is impossible to drive it below zero.
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Day 13: People is looking edible. Can't find my can opener.
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...wow...frozen up huh...that's weird because i ride even as low as 20 degrees F...for 15+ miles at a stretch...
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Day 13: People is looking edible. Can't find my can opener.
More like "judging by the quality of built, if I would not know this was Kymco, i would think it is Chinese-crap-scooter"...
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Speedo cable changed today, under warranty.
8222 kms.
Wonder what will die next...
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Speedo cable changed today, under warranty.
8222 kms.
Wonder what will die next...
I had all the same problems on my scoot, even my engine cut out on the highway and the crank had to be replaced. All the mentioned problems were fixed by Kymco under warantee. I had it for 3 months and put about 7000 miles on it. I got it back rode it for 600 miles and took it in for the 2nd "1st service" and it was stolen a week later. I miss it and want to replace it but that's when I thought the problems were unique to me. I think it doesn't like cold weather and I used to wipe the ice off and ride it in 16 degree Fahrenheit. Not sure what else could have caused the failure unless it's not built for all those highway miles I put on her.
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I had all the same problems on my scoot, even my engine cut out on the highway and the crank had to be replaced. All the mentioned problems were fixed by Kymco under warantee. I had it for 3 months and put about 7000 miles on it. I got it back rode it for 600 miles and took it in for the 2nd "1st service" and it was stolen a week later. I miss it and want to replace it but that's when I thought the problems were unique to me. I think it doesn't like cold weather and I used to wipe the ice off and ride it in 16 degree Fahrenheit. Not sure what else could have caused the failure unless it's not built for all those highway miles I put on her.
Where are you from? Kymcos are usually not stolen where I live. Mostly Italian scoots, especially 2 stroke.
Kymcos are too slow and thus not attractive to thieves (usually kids).
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Where are you from? Kymcos are usually not stolen where I live. Mostly Italian scoots, especially 2 stroke.
Kymcos are too slow and thus not attractive to thieves (usually kids).
I'm not from there but it was in Philadelphia when it got stolen.
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In Phili. They would steal a cigarette but if you chained it to a light pole. No offense Philli.. Just a rough place.
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Here are a few pics of P250S and Agility 125 I took this afternoon to illustrate poor quality of some "peripheral" parts.
P250 is exactly one year old (this thread was started in Feb 2009). Agility is two yrs old.
P250 = 8400 km A125=14000 km.
Both scoots are driven year round and they are washed with miniwash at least once every two weeks and then inspected, lubed with grease in spray and treated with WD40.
I live in mild climate area with snow between zero and five days per year.
Most of the corrosion you will notice occured during one or two days the salt was used on the roads in December and January and before it melted and I had the opportunity to wash the scoot.
There is some strange internal friction between windshield and the plastic part that resulted in peeled appearance of the screen itself.
The engine and variator alu casings are of poor quality and aluminum corrosion can be spotted. Most of the nuts and bolts have started rusting, so are many metal parts.
On Agility, rear spring started rusting after a few months, on People,rear shocks have started rusting under the chrome finishing.
This is expected on "mailand China" scoots and not Kymco. I had similar issues with Italian scooters with one difference: it started slowly after 4-5 years and not after 4-5 months like with Kymco...
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First two pics
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Second two pics
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Part three
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Last pic
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...wow....my scoot is over 2 yrs old, and i see nothing like any of those pics on my A50....
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All pics are pics of P250. The only rusty thing on A125 is rear shock spring and some oxidation on the vario casing.
People seems to be made of sub-quality metal compared to Agility.
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Maybe sending copies to Kymco will get some attention. Can't imagine where they would be any happier than you with the quality.
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Why didn't you purchase a Piaggio BV250? Just curious.
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Why didn't you purchase a Piaggio BV250? Just curious.
I paid 5200 US$ for P250S with Givi topcase, 1yr insurance and 1yr registration.
BV 250 would be in the same configuration 6730 US$.
P250S accelerates faster and has 2 disc brakes in the front while BV 250 has single front disc brake.
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Can you give us an update? Thank you
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Can you give us an update? Thank you
Regarding what, there was a number of issues discussed within this topic.
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Are you still a proponent of Kymco scooters?
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my 2 cents - after almost a year I am enjoying my ps250 a lot - I wish there were more of them around. This is about the only place I find any discussion of this scooter and it is was limited. I have had a warranty issue (gear oil leaking into clutch area - which was fixed in a expedient manner. The manual and service manual leave a lot to be desired. I would give it the edge when compared to my aprilia scarabeo 200- always felt tricked by that one - it's made in China and hidden from the consumer - I didn't find out until I had owned it a couple weeks - very disappointing that it is not presented as the case, instead they try and make you think (by the name) that you are buying a fine Italian scooter. I look forward every day to riding to and from work on my Kymco, made in Taiwan and not hidden.
:)>>
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Capihse!
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Are you still a proponent of Kymco scooters?
They are just as good and just as bad as any other brand.
Everything else is a fairy tale.
The only thing that can work for or against you is quality of repair service and availability of spare parts.
I have never been a proponent of any brand except Alfa Romeo 15 years ago (not anymore).
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always felt tricked by that one - it's made in China and hidden from the consumer - I didn't find out until I had owned it a couple weeks - very disappointing that it is not presented as the case, instead they try and make you think (by the name) that you are buying a fine Italian scooter. I look forward every day to riding to and from work on my Kymco, made in Taiwan and not hidden.
:)>>
Kymco has factories in Indonesia, China and Taiwan.
Both my Kymcos are made in China.
It is irrelevant where something is made: things are generally produced where the cost is low. And that is, nowadays, China.
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my 2 cents - after almost a year I am enjoying my ps250 a lot - I wish there were more of them around. This is about the only place I find any discussion of this scooter and it is was limited. I have had a warranty issue (gear oil leaking into clutch area - which was fixed in a expedient manner. The manual and service manual leave a lot to be desired. I would give it the edge when compared to my aprilia scarabeo 200- always felt tricked by that one - it's made in China and hidden from the consumer - I didn't find out until I had owned it a couple weeks - very disappointing that it is not presented as the case, instead they try and make you think (by the name) that you are buying a fine Italian scooter. I look forward every day to riding to and from work on my Kymco, made in Taiwan and not hidden.
:)>>
..my A50 was made in China...in the Changhzou facility, which is a good thing...KYMCO does their R&D there....
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I washed People yesterday evening using coin operated pressurized mini-wash, it was -3 C outside. Came home without problems.
I have de-frosted the ignition key hole using WD40.
This morning I wanted to go to work and could not; it was completely dead, not even sound from the starter relay. However, horn, light and LEDs work normally, so does the speedo needle.
Considering that everything was fine until yesterday evening, I guess that either micro switches behind brakes froze, or kill master switch froze, or there is still problem with ignition key assembly or the side stand is frozen or something else. I should have moved it to sun this morning but did not and left it in shade, went to work in a cage. It is just a bit above freezing during the day, so I hope it will defrost. My gf comes from work around 4 pm (2 hrs before me) so she will try to start it. If not, i will let it sit for a day more, because if it is not frost-washing related, it has to be something completely unrelated to this that happened in the same time...
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Defrosted, P250S works now. ;D
However, on gf`s A125, right heated hand grip stopped working. Either broken heating element inside grip, or problem with contact/installation. I think I will be dealing with that this evening.
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Next task: tire change.
Just arrived two Continental ContiTwist tires by DHL. (93 EUR/pair w. shipping)
Scoot has 13.600 kms and tires are quite flat because I drive daily 25 kms to work and back and there are no many bends on the way, so the tires are worn in the mid-section and almost new around the edges.
Now I have to see how to replace them because tire change mechanics do not want to deal with scoots because it is complicated, they prefer cars...
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I found a mechanic willing to change the tires. Brought the tires home from work yesterday, drove to the mechanic (just 2 kms away!!!) and it was done today after I came from work. I paid around 28 EUR for the service which is nothing compared to what I would have to do (disassemble front wheel, go to have the tire changed, assemble front wheel, repeat the same with the rear tire - I realized it would take 20 man-hours to complete the task myself and gave up).
While it was all disassembled, I told them to replace the brake pads if they are worn and the front ones were - I bought the replacements this winter. It is interesting that OEM front pads lasted "only" 13.800 kms. Agility's are still in great shape after 23.000 kms. Also, my experience with Beverly 200 is that front pads should be replaced after approx. 20.000 kms. I do not use the brake that much, so this was a surprise.
Another surprise are screws that are holding the brake calipers. You can still see blue Loctite-like stuff on them, put in the factory. I remind you, this is the FIRST time after the factory that brakes were touched. The screw thread on both front calipers was completely worn! I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, ARE THEY IN KYMCO IDIOTS WITHOUT QUALITY CONTROL, OR AM I UNIQUE AND END UP WITH LOW QUALITY SEMI-PRODUCTS. This is downright dangerous, this is not some non-important part of the scooter/bike. The screws are replaced with new ones now. If I remember correctly, Jprestonian also had problems with his calipers on classic P250 (not S).
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...
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...
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Worn thread on disk caliper screws pic #1
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Worn thread on disk caliper screws pic #2 ??? :-X :-\ :o
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I will try to change coolant this afternoon.
The manual says nicely "Reinstall the radiator cap. If there are bubbles in the coolant, bleed air from the system."
Great.
But, how to bleed it? The manual does not show if there are air bleeds/bolts in the system.
Are there and where?
Tnx.
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I think you bleed it from the the overflow reservoir in the faring and not the radiator proper.
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I almost went crazy.
1. After draining 1.4 l of old coolant, I was not able to fit more than 0.3 l of new coolant, it would overflow. I managed to do that only after removing the seat (this is not written in the Chinglish-semi-useless service manual, and it is not reported ANYWHERE on this forum or other forums!!!) and locating the thin overflow tube, just next to the engine temperature sensor in the cylinder head. I have managed to squeeze out the air pocket only after turning on the engine, revving for some time and at the same time, pouring new coolant using funnel in the radiator! It took me two and half hours to disassemble everything and put everything back together. Good that I did not have anything better to do so I spent 4 hours of my life today on these two things...
2. After checking some other things on the scoot, I became convinced that Kymco made sure to make any kind of maintenance on purpose difficult or impossible for the user. For example, to change blinker lights you have to remove completely the front fairing because they are screwed to the fairing from underneath, instead of putting screws to be accessible from outside like on most other scoots. Furthermore, I stripped down all bolts from the cvt cover and found out that the last, 10th bolt is almost impossible to remove because you cannot fit the wrench on the bolt from anywhere. Again, I have removed the seat and barely managed to access the bolt from above. It took me 30 minutes to remove ONE SINGLE BOLT because I had to move it milimeter by milimeter because there is no space. It is dark outside now and tomorrow I will try to disassemble the belt and change it, even though I do not know how I will block the drive pulley. It looks good but it is 22.5 mm wide (22 mm is service width), and I do not want to go through all this again any time soon.
Tomorrow I will try to change brake oil. OF COURSE, on most scoots, little reservoirs on handlebars can be accessed even when the tupperware is on. Not on Kymco, not only it is under the handlebar cover, but you have to remove BOTH front AND rear side of the cover in order to access them.
I am becoming more and more frustrated by Kymco as the time goes, for many different reasons.
Here are some pics of the infamous vario cover bolt, of the tube I used to bleed out air etc.
Oh, did you know that set of bolts (can be bought only as a set) for CVT cover is 55 US$, and three times that in my country? INSANE!
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...
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Back to the solitude of my thread/diary.
Today I spent the time between 10.30 am and 7 pm (!) working on scoots. Everything aches.
1. It took me 1,5 hours to disassemble the upper front fairing including windshield, removal of both rear view mirrors, additional installation for heated handgrips etc. I swear, Kymco engineers are complete morons. I did that only to be able to change brake oil. It took me 0,5 hour to remove three bolts that hold the front light to the metal plate inside because there is no place to place the wrench of my arms (cut all over by plastic parts). Changed brake oil without problems.
2. Another 0,5 hour to put everything back.
3. Broke THREE FINS of the face plate of the front pulley trying to loosen the central bolt to change the belt. I tried to block it by using a piece of wood (snapped the first fin!!!), then a screwdriver, as everybody on Internet/forums/You Tube does (snapped next two fins!!!!!!). Went crazy, just cleaned the vario and cover and put everything back together. I will buy the holder tool from scooterpartsmania, because the belt is not in bad condition, it is still above specs.
4. Disassembled exhaust cans and shieldings/caps from both Agility and People, cleaned the rust and sprayed three times with black heat resistant color.
5. Renewed black parts of both scoots with black-plastic-finish renewer.
My back aches, my shoulders, lower back, everything hurts...
I seem to be talking to myself in this thread. :)
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I seem to be talking to myself in this thread. :)
keep posting. i'm learning a lot following your thread.
was considering the people 300gti next year and still am, but this is educational not just re: kymcos but scooter maintenance in general.
i had heard aprilia/piaggos were fairly difficult to service compared to vespas. sounds like kymco's are worse. i'm currently on a honde elite/lead 110 and am only comfortable doing oil changes and simple battery tender/horn replacement. haven't tried a valve adjustments, coolant/brake fluid changes...
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I just now saw this thread. ;) Axy, welcome to the sore back, arm, hand, knuckle club! :D Those same tasks on my 500 are just about the same as what you've encountered. I think those videos and advice about vario nuts are from guys who already loosened the nut many times previously and never really put it back as tight as it should be. Mine was incredibly tight and never would have come loose without the holder I purchased.
Do you think you should snap a few fins on the pulley 180 degrees opposite the ones which broke to keep it balanced? Or maybe epoxy the broken fins back on? I don't know -- just wondering.
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I just now saw this thread. ;) Axy, welcome to the sore back, arm, hand, knuckle club! :D Those same tasks on my 500 are just about the same as what you've encountered. I think those videos and advice about vario nuts are from guys who already loosened the nut many times previously and never really put it back as tight as it should be. Mine was incredibly tight and never would have come loose without the holder I purchased.
Do you think you should snap a few fins on the pulley 180 degrees opposite the ones which broke to keep it balanced? Or maybe epoxy the broken fins back on? I don't know -- just wondering.
I saved the broken fins and plan to try to glue them back on when I buy the holder tool and tear everything again apart. Or buy a new faceplate.
Question: does your holder tool look like this: http://www.scooterpartsmania.com/gy6-50cc-variator-remover-puller-tool88382-p-1928.html (http://www.scooterpartsmania.com/gy6-50cc-variator-remover-puller-tool88382-p-1928.html)
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No but that one looks like it should work fine. Here's mine: http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3814.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3814.0) I ordered it from motorcycle-superstore.com I had to grind the pegs just a little to get it to fit just right. I suggest you also use a BIG breaker bar with appropriate socket. Also, once I put the holding tool on the vario, I have to find a way to "hold the holder", since my arm strength is not enough. See pics.
Other option is to use an impact wrench.
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Now that I look at that tool some more, it may not be long enough or beefy enough to do your 250. You could, perhaps, slide a piece of pipe over the handle to make it longer.
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Do you by any chance know what is the width between holes in the face plate?
It is 8 cm on my scoot.
Alternatively, what is the max width to which the tool can be stretched?
Tnx.
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I don't know the answer to either question right now. It's night here so I don't want to go out and look now. I do know that my tool will open up more than I need it to. I think the price was about $26 USDollars plus shipping.
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Ok, the measurement between holes on my variator is 10.5 cm. My tool opens up to at least 14 cm.
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Ok, the measurement between holes on my variator is 10.5 cm. My tool opens up to at least 14 cm.
Thank you very much.
That is 2.5 cm more than on my scoot.
I am aiming for this tool.
Its length is 25 cm.
I hope it will fit my purpose...
(http://www.scooterpartsmania.com/images/88382.jpg)
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Just so you know, I've read through your whole PS250 diary here and will continue to follow it. I just bought a (non-S) P250 myself, and am soaking up all the information I can. Thanks, and keep it up.
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Just so you know, I've read through your whole PS250 diary here and will continue to follow it. I just bought a (non-S) P250 myself, and am soaking up all the information I can. Thanks, and keep it up.
:D ;) ::) 8)
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The tool works. Yesterday I have changed the belt on my gf's A125 - http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=1493.msg46031#msg46031 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=1493.msg46031#msg46031) - and today I have changed the roller weights and the belt on my P250S.
You can change the belt on A125 without removing the clutch but it seems it is not possible with P250S, because you cannot compress the clutch with your hands in order to pull out the belt, there is no space between clutch and the outer vario casing. So I had to remove the clutch too, inspect it, clean the dust and put everything back. Service manual shows the same. The rollers and belt were in quite good condition after 15.000 kms (OEM belt was Mitsubishi made, the new one is Dayco, as you can see, they are the same). Unfortunately, I have purchased some Chinese crap roller weights, they have some kind of plastic surface that can roll around the metal core?!? This crap cannot last, I bet they will shred to pieces in no time. I have another set of 19g rollers (OEMs are 21), so if they go bad during the summer, I will use lighter ones until I buy some decent rollers or even Kymco's as their quality seems to be supreme.
Oh, yes, there is NO WAY to loosen the nut on the face plate where rollers are, or the one keeping the clutch in place. I tried standard 40 cm wrench, then I tried something that looks like a crowbar and it is used to remove wheel nuts and could not. Finally, I had one person keeping the rear brake lever pressed, the other person using the pulley blocking tool and I have extended regular wrench with 1.5 m pipe (!) shown in the pictures, and only then I have managed to loosen it. Even WD40 did not help before that. The mechanic must have used the impact wrench in the past and with 1.5 m lever you can normally loosen nuts on Caterpillar machines or railway wagons!
I have cleaned everything, put everything back together and went for 300 m test ride. Everything goes smoothly, but the belt makes "flapping" sound, especially when the scoot is idling that was not present before. I did not make a mistake assembling everything back and the belt has the same length and width, so I do not understand what might be the problem. This fact and crappy replacement Chinese rollers make me less happy about the work I did. Anyway, I think that People's OEM belt may last well into 16-17.000 kms under normal conditions as my OEM looked great when replaced today after 15.000 kms.
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7533/46548087.th.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/46548087.jpg/)
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7744/89968884.th.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/89968884.jpg/)
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/428/83607512.th.jpg) (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/83607512.jpg/)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7149/19706100.th.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/19706100.jpg/)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1192/49168459.th.jpg) (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/49168459.jpg/)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5451/74863013.th.jpg) (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/74863013.jpg/)
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Good work, Axy. ;) Perhaps the new belt just needs time to break in. May I suggest you keep a check on the heat generated by your CVT over the next few days? Just a touch with the fingers will tell something. I have a theory (maybe stupid) that the clutch dust inside the CVT acts as sort of a minor lubricant for the belt.
I'm thinking yours will smooth out with a little time. :D
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Good work, Axy. ;) Perhaps the new belt just needs time to break in. May I suggest you keep a check on the heat generated by your CVT over the next few days? Just a touch with the fingers will tell something. I have a theory (maybe stupid) that the clutch dust inside the CVT acts as sort of a minor lubricant for the belt.
I'm thinking yours will smooth out with a little time. :D
Tnx for the good wishes, but there is no such thing as break in with this belt. It will not fit better, "snug in" better or anything else as the time goes. These belts do not stretch and service wear is only about 1-1.5 mm max over 15.000 kms. So, I still do not understand where is this flapping noise coming from. When you look at the belt with cover removed, you can see there is quite some free play. The problem is that I did not look at the old belt when the engine is started and cover removed, so I do not have a reference point for comparison. Strange.
I am preparing for the first test drive today with both scoots. :)
p.s. Completed 10 km test drive of both scoots, everything is as smooth as it should be. Vario cover casing temperature seems to be normal (one can keep hand on it), at least normal for external temperature of 35 + C we have here nowadays. I will not yet declare this a win, especially not with el cheapo Chinese plastic crap rollers I have installed.
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Take some consolation in this: When I installed a new Gates belt on the Xciting 500 it did exactly the same thing you describe! Flapping like crazy as I observed it with vario cover off. Then I realized that running engine with that cover off meant the clutch outer bearing wasn't in place! Yikes! Anyway, with everything put back together it still made flapping noise for several miles and then smoothed out. Still I noticed excessive heat of the whole CVT -- plus the ride just wasn't smooth. So I took the Gates belt off. Months later I noticed the Gates belt had big tear in it! I still don't know the reasons for all that. Think I read somewhere the Gates belt is slightly longer than the stock one.
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They did change belt size from year to year.
jenny
tnt cycles
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Jenny, is that true for the 250S or the 500? Or both?
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Jenny,
Do you stock a replacement belt for my 2007 p250? (995x24x30?) If so how much?
Thanks
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17.500 km.
New issue: I have noticed that suddenly the consumption jumped up 20 %. Usually, it is around 4.2 l/100 km and during the past two tanks it consumed 5.0 l/100 km (driving style, weather conditions, route and driver were the same).
After analysis I have realized that there is nothing wrong with consumption, but tachometer has started showing 20 % less covered distance! Out of the blue.
So, during the last tank, tacho showed that I have covered 118 kms while in reality it was 141 kms. It used 6 l of fuel (5.1 l/100 km according to "wrong" mileage and expected 4.2 l/100 km in reality, if corrected mileage was used).
It is a paradox that speedometer is now showing almost correct speed. :) In the past it was 15 % off as with all Kymcos, but now it is spot on.
I have to wait now and see which 100 US$ part that cannot be purchased anywhere else but in Kymco after 3 months of waiting will go wrong. (speedo cable already broke once at around 7000 kms).
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My back aches, my shoulders, lower back, everything hurts...
I seem to be talking to myself in this thread. :)
[/quote]
Keep going Axy, I'm following along.
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Keep going Axy, I'm following along.
In Germany your yeary car insurance depends on the number of covered kilometers. For example, a package includes 20,000 kms, and if you exceed it, you have to pay for additional 5,000 km increments.
A friend of mine lives there and after reading my last message here, he said he would be LUCKY if his BMW had this kind of malfunction...
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In Germany your yeary car insurance depends on the number of covered kilometers. For example, a package includes 20,000 kms, and if you exceed it, you have to pay for additional 5,000 km increments.
..it must suck to be there...
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Another spring, another day-and-a-half of me serving the scooters after one year of (ab)use. No problems for the past 12 months except tacho line that snapped on Agility and was replaced two months ago along with brake fluid.
People 250S: 20.000 kms, 3 years 3 months old
Agility 125: 31.000 kms, 4 years 3 months old
Yesterday evening I have changed engine oil in both scoots and transmission oil in both scoots. Everything went smoothly.
Today I was working on scoots from 11am-5pm. I work in the office so I am quite not accustomed to physical work so now I am dead tired with sore-everything.
People:change of air filter (I used the same filter for the past 20.000 kms, just washed it with gasoline every 6.000 kms), change of spark plug (I change it every 10.000 kms), disassembled shields, cleaned rust and painted exhaust can, greased all joints, applied plastic "renewer" on black plastic parts
Agility: change of spark plug, disassembled shields, cleaned rust and painted exhaust can, greased all joints, applied plastic "renewer" on black plastic parts, change of front brake pads (OEM pads were half way through after 31.000 kms (!) but I changed them nevertheless).
I will post some pics now.
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Here is what People's air filter looks like after 20.000 kms and 3 times being washed in gasoline.
Also, a picture of 10.000 kms worth of driving on spark plugs (Agility&People). They are both in good shape.
It takes a circus rubber-man to change spark plug, especially on Agility.
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Of course, one of the bolts holding on small metallic shield on the exhaust pipe snapped.
Almost all bolts and screws on Kymcos that are around exhaust are made of cheapest metal possible. After just a few months they are all rusty and almost unrecognizable.
I could not remove the remaining thread so I have resorted to use of two-component glue to hold the shield in place. :) Obviously I will not remove it so easy next time.
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Here is what the exhaust cans look like after a year. They are cleaned and repainted every year in the spring. In fact, they are in good shape, there is some rust at the very top of both cans, but bodies are in great shape.
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Here they are after being cleaned and resprayed a few times. I have just barely put back on the shields because bolts are completely distorted. Next year I will have to buy new bolts/screws and hex nuts.
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Finally, I have changed pads on Kymco's front brake the first time in 31.000 kms. They were still with some meat on!
The new pads are EBC with some kevlar in them...
You will see in the picture a useful tool used to make the gap between pistons and calipers bigger when installing new pads. I paid it a few EUR 10 years ago on louis.de webshop and they saved my life a few times. You will often hear forum stories about using two screwdrivers to make the gap bigger (also to block pulley when changing the CVT belt - tried it and snapped the pulley). I would like to see those people offering advices to do that in real life with two screwdrivers. It would maybe work if one had completely fixed calipers and 1 m long screwdrivers.
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Thank you for the detailed write up with photos, Axy. I've been following the Service Manual for maintenance frequency and it seems a little often on some things like spark plug and air filter. Your information supports the questioning of frequency since you're getting good service over longer periods. I have a 2006 People 250 in California where it hasn't been wet yet. I just had to replace the original battery and there appears to be a problem with the rear brake light switch. Twice the engine wouldn't turn over when I held the rear brake handle, but did when I held the front brake handle. The brake light works... I'm unable to find the brake handle switch symbol in the manual to see if it's a double pole single throw switch. This would allow it to turn on the brake light but not start the engine when it fails.
If you replace the badly rusted bolts with stainless steel and use a good anti-seeze compound you could save yourself some heartburn on those exhaust fasteners. These can help on brake fasteners as well. Brake parts get quite hot too.
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Thank you for the detailed write up with photos, Axy. I've been following the Service Manual for maintenance frequency and it seems a little often on some things like spark plug and air filter. Your information supports the questioning of frequency since you're getting good service over longer periods. I have a 2006 People 250 in California where it hasn't been wet yet. I just had to replace the original battery and there appears to be a problem with the rear brake light switch. Twice the engine wouldn't turn over when I held the rear brake handle, but did when I held the front brake handle. The brake light works... I'm unable to find the brake handle switch symbol in the manual to see if it's a double pole single throw switch. This would allow it to turn on the brake light but not start the engine when it fails.
I've had a similar problem years ago with my Beverly 200. It was a faulty micro-switch behind the brake lever and it was replaced by Piaggio under warranty.
Also, both Kymcos still have original battery.
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wonder why my front brake pads went so fast (at 7500 miles) on one side and not the other?? Ones on the right went first, ones on the left still look good as do the back ones. Love my PS250 - good mileage - great power - handles well - looks awesome (red of course) -and not much goes wrong (knocking wood)
:)>>
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I have never brought up this issue, but I think there is something wrong with construction of P250S's front brakes.
Front end of my scoot from day one tends to slide violently to one side when breaking hard.
I got used to it but it is downright dangerous, especially when it's wet.
As I said, it has nothing to do with aging brake fluid, dirt or stuck calipers. All checked.
I really dislike poor built quality, uneven front brakes and bottoming out suspension.
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WOW! What a thread. The pulling to one side is an alignment issue with the Rear wheel. You most likely have a worn bushing in the engine mount. Since it has done this from day one I suspect something more. Maybe a miss aligned frame. To verify use one of those Laser pens mounted to a board. You can site it across the rear tire facing forward. You will see the dot on the edge of the tire. Line it up like a string so you see it on the rear of the tire, and the forward part of the tire. If the scoot is straight it will also show on the front tire in the same two places.
Thoses broken finns... Did you but a new fan? Epoxy will fail, and those bits will jam something up!
The brake screws... They had to strip going in at the plant (new guy?) I'd use a proper tap, and re do the threads inside the fork. New bolts, and Lok Tite. (blue)
The muffler... Use a Left hand twist drill bit to remove the broken stud. A propane torch will give it enough heat to spin out. You will have to run a tap in that as well.
The speedo... It is a magnet spinning on the end of the cable. The magnet spins inside a steel cup that drives the needle, and clock. The cup may be surface rusted, or any strong electrical current will draw down the magnet if it is placed close enough to the magnet. (hand warmers maybe)?
Pluss you keep your scoot outside near the shore all year. Salt air is a bitch on Chineese re cycled metals...
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WOW! What a thread. The pulling to one side is an alignment issue with the Rear wheel. You most likely have a worn bushing in the engine mount. Since it has done this from day one I suspect something more. Maybe a miss aligned frame. To verify use one of those Laser pens mounted to a board. You can site it across the rear tire facing forward. You will see the dot on the edge of the tire. Line it up like a string so you see it on the rear of the tire, and the forward part of the tire. If the scoot is straight it will also show on the front tire in the same two places.
Thoses broken finns... Did you but a new fan? Epoxy will fail, and those bits will jam something up!
The brake screws... They had to strip going in at the plant (new guy?) I'd use a proper tap, and re do the threads inside the fork. New bolts, and Lok Tite. (blue)
The muffler... Use a Left hand twist drill bit to remove the broken stud. A propane torch will give it enough heat to spin out. You will have to run a tap in that as well.
The speedo... It is a magnet spinning on the end of the cable. The magnet spins inside a steel cup that drives the needle, and clock. The cup may be surface rusted, or any strong electrical current will draw down the magnet if it is placed close enough to the magnet. (hand warmers maybe)?
Pluss you keep your scoot outside near the shore all year. Salt air is a bitch on Chineese re cycled metals...
As you probably saw, this is a "diary" of the past 3.5 years, so most issues were fixed.
Frame is OK, it still pulls ONLY WHEN BRAKING HEAVILY using front brake. Does not pull, but the wheel tends to slide a bit to one side.
No salt. I live close to the sea but not near the shore. :) I live 13 kms fromt he sea and work 500 m from the sea, but no salt anywhere in the story. :)
Thanks for the advice anyway.
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I think he just slapped me~Owwww.
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I've had a similar problem years ago with my Beverly 200. It was a faulty micro-switch behind the brake lever and it was replaced by Piaggio under warranty.
Also, both Kymcos still have original battery.
That's pretty good. I'm on my second battery replacement for my '09 PS250. I think it's funny that you have a PS250 and an Agility 125. My first scoot was an '07 Agility 125 and now I got the PS250 ;D
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Axy it seems you got a lemon. Or a "problem" scooter. Concerning the 250, I mean. I have not seen such posts about this scooter elsewhere. And these are issues on just one bike!
But, it's still running, right? ;D
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Hello axy, first thanks for your great posts, they are very teaches rich pictures are good to use. But, I must admit that you are making me nervous. I just bought a Kymco People S 251 to the equivalent of $ 6,724.48 in Danish kroner, and you write it is something China junk. Or do I read it wrong. I thought it run unbelievable good, and I of course hope that it continues. It is super fast and comfortable to sit on, but I would not want the mistakes that you've got. I have only gone 700 km.
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People: 21.800 kms.
Agility: 33.000 kms.
Ordered gel batteries both for People and Agility from Germany. Agility will be 5 y.o. in January and People will be 4 y.o., so I want to be ready for the winter.
Both still running on OEM batteries, stronger than ever.
Also, EBC pads all around for People.
Issue. Today the light bulb in underseat compartment died. I have visited four shops and nobody carries them. They all have 12V 1.2W but it is too small.
Came home and it took me an hour to find out that Kymco uses not-exactly-too-standard T6.5 (6.5x19 mm) 12V 1.7W wedge shaped bulb.
Went online.
- Entire ebay: two sellers, I can either buy a lot of 100, or a single bulb from a joker asking 36 US$ for it (!)
- Alibaba Express: nobody has it (!)
- Chipoteka.hr (Croatian "Radio Shack"): zero
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Sounds like the voltage regulator is not working correct. High voltage kills lights and batteries.
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Sounds like the voltage regulator is not working correct. High voltage kills lights and batteries.
Hey Greg, I know it's all for the good cause :) but this is a bit of overdiagnosis. :)
3.5 years of turning the light on and off when lifting the seat tends to burn tiny wedged bulb too.
Furthermore, this is the first bulb that died on this scoot ever. I used to change bulbs every month or two on Piaggios.
So, one thumb up for Kymco,. finally (even though they could have used a standard T5 or T10 bulb and not T6.5 (!)).
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22.600 km now, 4 years on the road in 3 months.
Consumption jumped from steady 4.0 l/100 km to 5.2 l/100 km under the same conditions. It could be time for the first valve maintenance.
Yesterday I have checked the odometer for the first time.
It shows, compared to GPS, 10.1 % more distance covered. This also means that true consumption is 10.1 % higher than the one calculated according to the odometer reading.
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4.5 years, 24.000 kms. The OEM battery started giving in.
A month ago I had to crank it 4-5 times and it died on me.
I charged it when I came back from work and today the same happened again. One cell is "puffed up" too, so it is gone bad definitely...
Last summer I bought a new Chinese gel replacement, so I will install it in a few hours when I top it up with a trickle charger.
It is interesting that after 5.5 years/35.000 kms OEM battery in Agility 125 is still good.
I started skipping my daily visits to this forum and usually it means that I am giving up on following a particular forum. I will log in from time to time, every week or two.
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Quote" Issue. Today the light bulb in underseat compartment died. I have visited four shops and nobody carries them. They all have 12V 1.2W but it is too small.
Came home and it took me an hour to find out that Kymco uses not-exactly-too-standard T6.5 (6.5x19 mm) 12V 1.7W wedge shaped bulb."
I thought I used a T10 in there on my Yager (I just had it lying about). I'm sure I didn't order anything special....
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I just bought an S250 myself. The odomotor shows 37000 kilometers but in reality, it's probably around 50000.
The engine runs and sounds great (no weird noises). I checked the valves and the inlet valve was spot on at 0.1mm, the exhaust valve had zero play though. The engine has been running like this for the last four years (I know the previous owner), apparently Kymcos are designed to run for ages with tight valves.
There's almost no rust, nothing on the brake disks, rear springs, or any of the fasteners. There's some minimal surface rust on some of the frame welds and on the engine hanger. The age of the scooter is most clearly visible from the plastics, i.e. lots of scratches, some cracks, and lots of the OEM black parkers are missing or have been replaced with other types of screws.
It needs a few hundred euros worth of parts (belt, brake pads, air filter, etc. etc.). Axy, what is your experience with the 19gram rollers? I was thinking of ordering 19 gram Dr.Pulley weights. The OEM weights are 21 or 20 grams, not sure. Does anybody have any experience with various roller weights? What's optimal?
Thanks!
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I believe the stock rollers are 24g if i an not mistaken. I have been using Dr. Pulley sliders 20g in my 250 but i have modified it a lot. I would think for top speed 19g with the stock engine is too light. Start at 22g and you can always dremell them lighter. Also what made a HUGE difference is the yellow torque spring. I got mine from buggy parts NW and it is the spring for cfmoto 250 (same spring) holds rpm better uphill!!!
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Look forward to bliss! 4,500 km on my 2010 without a single problem. I do wish the seat was more comfortable?
CoolSoupy - San Antonio, TX
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Here's a thing on the seat for ya!
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=12757.msg130188#msg130188 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=12757.msg130188#msg130188)
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Zombie, your going HAM on unanswered posts lol
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Playing catch up don't ya know...
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I haven't been visiting the forum in the past years, but I will be back now, at least to study my new scoot a bit.
After 8 years and 8 months, I traded in my P250S for a new scoot.
Has 44kms on it and goes stronger than ever, I think it has many more kms in the future.
I even did myself service check up (oils, fluids, spark...) last weekend for the new owner.
Here is the last picture. Considering age and mileage, I think I kept it in great shape.
Has new steering bearings (upper and lower), refurbished forks, coil and refurbished carb.
The rest seems to be as good as new or better (has lighter weights so it accelerates better than stock).
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I haven't been visiting the forum in the past years, but I will be back now, at least to study my new scoot a bit.
After 8 years and 8 months, I traded in my P250S for a new scoot.
Has 44kms on it and goes stronger than ever, I think it has many more kms in the future.
I even did myself service check up (oils, fluids, spark...) last weekend for the new owner.
Here is the last picture. Considering age and mileage, I think I kept it in great shape.
Has new steering bearings (upper and lower), refurbished forks, coil and refurbished carb.
The rest seems to be as good as new or better (has lighter weights so it accelerates better than stock).
Agreed, a well maintained scooter. 8+ yrs!
Good on you!
Welcome back.
Germany?, or?
Stig
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Hey I get asked how many miles a scooter is good for. At 20,000 on a P250S 2010 myself.
It is great to read I'll have many miles more! I'm rather used to the 70MPG and 2 gallon fill ups now. ;D