KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Bet & Win 250 => Topic started by: gazibarev on May 30, 2011, 04:20:04 PM
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Please help. Dashboard backlight on my 250 bet and win is dead. How to fix it??
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up
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how did you repair it????
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I still have not fix it :-[ :-[ :-[
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Mine died just after a year of purchase (2002). Never got it fixed yet and every year in winter I say to myself : I gotta fix this...
Did you manage to get yours done?
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OK, if anybody's interested, the dashboard backlight is NOT fixable.
It appears that the "backlight" is actually an illumination strip - i guess it is some or other type of flourescence activated by electricity.
Getting the unit apart is another beast, which presented a nice challenge. The front cover is glued tightly shut so cannot be lifted out. So I drilled it out, using a small bit and about 300 holes (just a guess). After that it was plain sailing. I took everything apart except the needle because i was afraid that once the needle comes off it might not fit properly again. The strip was then almost accessible - just had to cut it so that I could slip it out around the needle.
My plan is to use 5 or 6 hi-bright green LED replacements. Now that the illumination strip is out I can get the LEDS right up against the perspex reflector lens - at least I'll be able to see my speedo now at night! The front cover will be reglued / resealed into place with some good silicone.
cheers
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Nice work.
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I've measured the two terminals leading to the illumination element using a multimeter and found out that there isn't any voltage going in. I believe there is a problem with the electronics powering the lighting element and i'm thinking to bypass the original electronics and create a separate circuit to power that element. Just need to find out at what voltage is the backlight working.
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Check for power into, and out of the switch. This should be a 12V circuit unless it was LED lit.
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I've checked and tried to light up the element by providing electricity separately. I also found out that there aren't any LED's. There are two contacts feeding the illuminator. I also found out that the backlight is a electroluminescent backlight or EL Backlight Sheet.
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It glows a phosphorous green when on. I only have an issue because the backlight sometimes it turns on and sometimes it switches off randomly.
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I'd drill some holes, and add led's
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In the PCB or the white plastic fame under the LCD? (Grand Dink/Grand Vista 250)
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The contacts of the backlight. (Grand Dink/Grand Vista 250)
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The circuitry of the dashboard. (Grand Dink/Grand Vista 250)
I believe that the little black box "Epicenter E5-652Z" is the DC/AC inverter for the backlight and is faulty.
I read that it runs on 5V DC +10% and puts out around 80V AC +15% @ 600Hz +20%.
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The whole dashboard. (Grand Dink/Grand Vista 250)
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Yeah... That would be in the garbage. Wouldn't think twice...
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We Romanians are kind of "Do-it yourself" type of guys, we tend to try to repair things by our selfs before considering discarding them...
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Us Irish Americans throw it out at the store. Don't even take it home. Just joking man. I respect the fact you WANT to fix it. It's a matter of time for me. I'd install a few 3-4 led's and be done with it. On to the next project...
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Good Afternoon Rudolf,
Did you you add a power supply to the illumination element? I am interested in your final outcome. I have a Bet Win 250 with the same problem. Thank You
Bob
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The illumination element runs on 80 volts A.C. at 600Hz. I need an inverter that generates 80v A.C. at 600Hz from 5V or 12V D.C., the power needed to activate the light element. The inverter code is EPICENTER E5-652Z. My dashboard's backlight sometimes lights up, and sometimes turns its self off. I'm suspecting the circuitry powering the inverter may be faulty or a loose contact on the circuit board. When the inverter is running i can hear a continuous, low-intensity, high-pitched hum or buzzing. I also found out that there is a solid-brown wire witch comes from the light switch on the right handlebar, the same wire is powering the rear light and the backlight circuitry in the dashboard.
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Here are the two contacts of the illumination element.
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Hello Rudolf, Still working on the problem. I removed the unit and reinstalled and now the lights come on intermittently. I wonder if it might be as simple as a loose wire. The complexity of this is above my pay grade.
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Maybe a loose soldering on the PCB.
I also found out that in moist and cold weather the backlight comes on but turns itself off shortly.
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Solved somehow: I've bypassed altogether the original backlight and installed two strips of blue lighted LED's inside the dashboard. From the dashboard's PCB I've cut away the brown + wire coming from the light switch and powering the back light and the tail light and connected-it to the LED strips. The - wire from the LED's connected to the green/black wire from the PCB witch is the negative terminal.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/582790_531965250169389_1291229596_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/16507_531965290169385_910943547_n.jpg)
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Hi everyone, it is my firts post 8)
recently i toked appart three dashboards, for that i use a heat gun in low temp, heat all the way of border between the two parts (black and transparent), after almost cooking my fingers the two parts come away very easy, then using a little extra heat removed all the remaining glue.
the electronics is other jam. the back-light is called ElectroLuminiscent strip, they uses 80 AC Volts at very high frequencies y the element used to invert the electricity is the big "ballast" at left these element is so faulty what was stop produced for the factory, in my case two of ballast was OK the other was faulty, in the two where the ballast is ok the problem was the contact between the board and EL Paper, so i re-solder the connectors and using a pair of tweezers to reinforce the contact between the paper and the wires.
for the one with the bad ballast i could use a pair of EL drivers what was rounding on my electronics elements. but if you haven't an EL driver the use of led strips, or led and fresnell lenses (like the LCDs for electronics) is amazing.
Does anybody know how to fix a dashboard with problems in the clock, I did double check the Brown/Blue cable and get +12V until board, when i turn on the motorcycle always the clock is 0:00 if i set the clock and turn off the motorcycle and then turn on quickly (less than 30 secs) the clock still set but if i turn off the motorcycle more than 30 sec the clock get reset. any ideas will be appreciated.
regards.
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I think that there is a small rechargeable battery soldered on the dashboard's PCB. So it may be faulty or disconnected. The battery keeps the clock running.
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Hi,
I have the same problem on my B&W 250. Three months ago dashboard backlight just went out. I was check all the connections in relation to the wiring diagram, but the problem remains. Tried with another dashboard, which is 100% OK and works on other B&W without problems. I am now convinced that the failure is on my bike (electrical compounds...) and not on a dashboard. Because of that I decided to finally solve the "mystery", and if I fix it, I will be happy to help anyone who has the same problem.
Greetings!
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Solved I've bypassed altogether the original backlight and installed two strips of blue lighted LED's inside the dashboard...
Thanks for posting the pictures and your progress / solution.
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... if I fix it, I will be happy to help anyone who has the same problem.
Did you ever solve it? I have the same problem on my 2005 GV. It started when I bought it 3 years ago with 2600 miles. It would go from bright to very dim. Now I have 13K and around 12K?
I looked at it last night and I see that it still works but it is so dim you can barely see it.
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Update: I've simply bypassed the original inverter circuit for the EL backlight all together, i've managed to find an aftermarket automotive EL inverter unit that operates on 12v and pumps out 110v at around 1000 Hz. It also has sound sensor. When i clap it flashes the light, or it reacts to any sound, even music. It costed around the equivalent of 10 dollars with shipping. I got rid of the blue LED-s because it's bothering my eyes.
(https://blog.adafruit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/window-179.jpg)
(https://blog.adafruit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/window-1-104.jpg)
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Thanks for the update I didn't know such a thing existed. I could see the blue LED could be annoying at night. My Panel is off most of the time at night but randomly comes on at full brightness or dim other times. Is it a loose connection or my inverter is bad?
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I see this same common problem on the Grand Dinks and other EL backlit dashboards on other kymcos. It's very fiddly to find the loose connections, some of the connections are right under the LCD so you have to unsolder the display first. This fix is simple and cheap to bypass the inverter with another inverter. You have to take the Brown wire and cut-it from the board witch is the + for the EL backlight and solder-it to the red input wire of the inverter, the black - wire from the inverter solder-it on the green wire with a black stripe, that is the - for the whole dashboard assembly. Google-it: Automotive EL inverter 12v
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I see this same common problem on the Grand Dinks and other EL backlit dashboards on other kymcos. .... Google-it: Automotive EL inverter 12v
Thanks Rudolf! I didn't know about any of this. Right now I have only two persistent problems:
1. Dashboard back light.
2. Exhaust (again) is making a rattling noise from inside. Hopefully, I can ignore it. If now I i will look to cut the canister (expansion chamber?) off and mount a standard round car or motorcycle exhaust - while hopefully keeping things at the stock noise level and air flow. Not interested in playing with the carb.
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For the exhaust you have to see on witch side is the rattling coming from, and cut the exhaust open on that side. My exhaust was rattling right at the tip of the box where the small pipe is exiting. Some plate come loose inside.
(https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1544562_685654334800479_2109378773_n.jpg?oh=eca5593418358ecb85a6a06647c3adb4&oe=5570C988)
As for the EL backlight, bypass the original inverter, by unsoldering the two terminals of the EL foil:
(http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4291.0;attach=5953;image)
Than get an automotive EL foil/tape/wire inverter like this:
(https://www.adafruit.com/adablog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/elinverter12V_LRG.jpg)
The black connector is where you connect the EL foil from the dashboard. The black and red wires are the input current of 12v DC. The red wire you connect to the plain brown wire that you cut away from the board:
(http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4291.0;attach=5955;image)
The black input wire of the inverter you solder to the green wire with black stripe on the board.
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the input current of...
Cool pics thanks. The inside of that exhaust looks very familiar.
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My gauge only tweaked out once, and out was when I left my bike outside and a lot of condensation built up. Once dry it's worked great. I opened it and ran some rtv between the lens and body. No more fog problems.
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My gauge only tweaked out once, and...
I've never had the fog moisture problem. Maybe there is hope for may gauge. It would be nice to have it working correctly.
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I've installed the new inverter for the electroluminescent foil and it works perfectly. I've bypassed it's own inverter with an aftermarket EL inverter that i've got cheaply from the internet (equivalent of 10 bucks). It was an inverter with an audio sensor. It flashed the lights each time it sensed sound:
(http://snootlab.com/1094-3583-thickbox/el-wire-6v-sound-activated-pocket-inverter-en.jpg)
I've removed the microphone, sensitivity volume controller and the main switch. The rear of the inverter:
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1908135_932270286805548_88686068892451324_n.jpg?oh=940f61bdfa7c84eb3c5fcdda031fb2dd&oe=58430D5D)
With the cover on the inverter:
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/11112583_932270270138883_1679985351487745738_n.jpg?oh=198dda8986f1a127784357cd75eeff7b&oe=5876091C)
The black wires of the inverter is connected to the foil, and the red and black wires are connected to 12v DC. Brown wire from the dashboard connects to the red wire of the inverter witch is the + and the black wire connects to the green/black wire from the dashboard.
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11113579_932270386805538_6764434558397719261_n.jpg?oh=eb06b0d2a19b611490e05b36c34605f0&oe=583B2D52)
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11081159_932270393472204_196329079392918918_n.jpg?oh=9a07ca468c2b9d75ac9e881f9ca24ae5&oe=587E8817)
after plugging the holes of the inverter with silicone, i've wrapped the inverter in a protective foam layer and tucked in the dashboard cover:
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21982_932307290135181_4575299762112515007_n.jpg?oh=880790d830f3c7dd37926d03216894ca&oe=5882C993)
Now testing:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/18125_932270446805532_7327126089759056839_n.jpg?oh=05ae05dc552b7c9b47080292857e4c66&oe=55BB24C6&__gda__=1438021307_dfb281e290664ef33f456d6ea1f5a028)
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18125_932270446805532_7327126089759056839_n.jpg?oh=4d20d4a8015fcb1735036579fb972d2f&oe=58830EC6)
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11091288_932270603472183_8034687136659197090_n.jpg?oh=1cb22eda35c494846dbba35323b36541&oe=587B05D4)
The inverter is converting 12V DC in to 110V AC @ 1000 Hz
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I've installed the new inverter for the electroluminescent foil and it works perfect...ed the inverter in a protective
The inverter is converting 12V DC in to 110V AC @ 1000 Hz
Those are incredible pictures thank you they're very helpful I'm going to switch this out and then maybe make a little video as I do. I order the parts that you suggested.
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(https://blog.adafruit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/elinverter12V_LRG.jpg)
There is also a simple version of the inverter without audio sensor.
Don't forget, cut away the plain Brown wire from the dashboard connect the red input wire of the inverter + to it, and find the green wire with black stripe and connect the negative terminal of the inverter's input wire.
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(http://www.glowmania.ro/1936-8464-thickbox/invertor-el-wire-auto-0-5-metri.jpg)
There is also a simple version of the inverter without audio sensor....
Great nighttime picture. I have used a lamp just like you have. Makes a good freestanding light.
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The night caught me with the bike still dismantled...
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11102607_932270563472187_3872881191126502042_n.jpg?oh=14d9bb4482256d44cb4c392e1ebc62f1&oe=587207EC)
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The night caught me with the bike still dismantled...
I've been there. Last year I did the head gasket on my car. Took the head to a machine shop. Thing was down for about 3 weeks!
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I just followed Rudolf's procedure and it works perfect. Tons of work! Took 5 hrs to dissemble, install part and reassemble. I purchased a universal EL inverter on amazon a year ago for $6.86. It is rated for 120v AC. It had two input wires for 12v Red and black. I tapped into a white wire with a black strip on the back of one of the relays located behind the headlight that has 12v positive that comes on with the ignition. I connected the black 12v ground wire under a bolt - soldered an eyelet on to the wire. There were two pairs of AC output wires with a plug on them. I rolled one up and taped it. The other I cut the plug off and stripped both wires. I unsoldered the two main bare metal "wires" that go to the panel. I soldered the AC output wires and taped it up (order does not matter because it is AC not DC) so no + / - to worry about. Put it all back together and it works perfect!! Will post pictures soon.
Thanks Rudolf could not have done it without your post.
Here is a link to my pictures including dissembling the plastics and the speedometer enclosure housing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3DZnxkRZ1u4REgyUWNLeDZNTHc (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3DZnxkRZ1u4REgyUWNLeDZNTHc)
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You're welcome! You should have connected the + wire (red) of the inverter to the solid brown wire of the dashboard witch you cut away from the PCB of the dashboard, and the - wire (black) of the inverter soldered to the green-black wire of the dashboard without cutting-it, so the inverter would power on as long as the headlights are on.
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You're welcome! You should have connected the + wire (red) of the inverter to the solid brown wire of the dashboard ...
I did it a little differently. I located the aftermarket inverter outside of the speedometer / EL panel enclouse to make it easier to inspect or test and replace if necessary. I am probably going to add a voltage regulator to reduce the brightness by turning down the input voltage to ~ 12.0v from the 14v that the Kymco idles at. See attached picture.
Rudolf - do you still have a scooter?
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Great work! No, i don't have a scooter anymore. It was destroyed in a head-on crash with a left turning van on the 2nd of june 2015 and dismantled it. All i have is spare parts right now. (engine, tires, wheels, tail light, wiring, buttons, brake system, signal light, screws, nuts and bolts) Everything else was scrapped. I also had both my legs fractured (femurs and tibias) in that crash, and i have metallic implants (screws, intramedullary nails, plate, and hip bolt after 4 surgeries). I've recovered nicely since than and now i have a HONDA XL650V TRANSALP motorcycle. 8)
This is my bike now:
(https://scontent.ftsr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12909427_1131352923563949_7398315849317801877_o.jpg)
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Great work! No, i don't have a scooter anymore. It was destroyed in a head-on crash with a left turning van on the 2nd of june 2015... now i have a HONDA XL650V TRANSALP motorcycle. 8)
Oh yes I remember that terrible crash. I had a bike similar to yours many years ago I bought a 1994 Honda XR650L and a year later sold it and got a 1994 XR250L because it was lighter off road in the trails. The 650 is a super tall bike! I ride friends motorcycles now and Zen and I miss the gears and shifting but for daily driving I love automatic. My GV250 is about to turn 20K miles... 32K km. Good to hear you are up and about. I remember getting a broken leg from an MC accident where a person pulled out in front of me from a stop sign. Got a broken leg, then didn't ride for about 6 years then got a 1990 KDX 200 two stroke and started riding off road with a friend. Then got the 650, then 250 XL enduros which returned me to street riding.
So how did you move from recovering in the hospital to riding again on the XL? Good to hear from you.
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To be more specific of the dashboard backlight fix, that i've applied to my former KYMCO GRAND DINK 250 (a.k.a. GRANDVISTA 250):
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The finished dashboard of my former KYMCO GRAND DINK 250 (a.k.a. GRANDVISTA 250):
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Hey Rudolf / MrBios, thanks for all that good info you posted about this fix. I ordered a few of those EL inverters from ebay, really cheap at about $2 each, and they work perfectly! A few years ago I had originally ripped out the centre foil on the dash (there are 3 foils on the B&W dash) and installed 2 brite LED's 'cos I had no idea what the problem was and needed to see the speedo at night. Anyhow, I thought it would be cool to see the remaining parts of the dash lit up again, so I removed the existing inverter from the circuit board and ran the wires thru the main wire cork stopper. Installed the new inverter out the back of the casing and that dash is now super sweet! Cheers