KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: ss10gotanks on October 28, 2017, 07:02:06 AM
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Hello everyone! I have a Kymco Xciting 500RI ABS that I bought a couple of months ago. I was having some problems with it shutting off so I took it to be fixed at the only scooter repair place in town. I was quoted 220 to fix it. I was told that it needed its Stator replaced.
So what I would like to know is how long should it take to replace this? Is it a hard repair? My bike has been in this shop for two months and they finally called me today and was like BTW the total is 440. When I complained, I was told that it took several guys over 6 hours to replace this part and that they where under charging me for the hours it took to repair it and that they even had to add more oil cause they needed to drain it to get to it.
I haven't been able to find much on how difficult this is to replace or how long it typically takes to replace. Is it normal for the quoted price to change so drastically without calling to see if i'm okay with the price doubling?
Any thoughts on this would be super helpful. I have a feeling that i'm being taken advantage of and would like to go into the store with some ammo tomorrow or monday. If you've changed this part- how long did it take you? The part they told me was like a 90 or something.
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If it takes 4 "mechanics" 6 hours to replace a stator then you definitely need to find another shop.
Can't comment on the total price, I don't live in the US, but giving you a total that is 100% more than what was given at the begining is not something that I would just say ok and pay.
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They should have consulted you BEFORE they ran up the clock. What made the stator fail? Where was this shop?
Karl
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I think six hours of work sounds about right. I just did this job on my Xciting 500 a couple of months ago. First removing a bunch of body panels (about 20 minutes work). Then drain coolant and remove water pump (15 minutes). The remove about 20 bolts that hold the engine right side cover on (20 minutes). Then I had to remove something on the rear suspension (I don't remember what) that prevented removal of the side cover (
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Whoops, wasn't finished and somehow hit the POST button. Here's the rest of my message:
I think six hours of work sounds about right. I just did this job on my Xciting 500 a couple of months ago, and I was surprised at how difficult the job was, having done numerous motorcycle stator replacements in the past (which I remember being much easier). I'll describe the procedure and estimate the time it took for each process (not counting head scratching and confusion). First removing a bunch of body panels (about 20 minutes work). Then drain coolant and remove water pump (15 minutes). Drain engine oil and remove oil filter (10 minutes). Remove about 20 bolts that hold the engine right side cover on (20 minutes). Then I had to remove something on the rear suspension (I don't remember what) that prevented removal of the side cover (15 minutes). Disconnect electrical plugs (5 minutes). Finally removed side cover. The side cover gasket was torn upon removal, and it took another 10 minutes to scrape the sealing surfaces clean. Then I had to order a new gasket (it cost about $25 and took 2 weeks to arrive). It took about 10 minutes to install the new stator onto the engine side cover and torque it in place. When the gasket finally arrived, reinstalled engine side cover and tighten the 20 or so bolts (30 minutes). Reattached suspension piece (5 minutes). Install water pump (5 minutes). Install new oil filter, add oil and coolant (20 minutes). Start up and check for proper operation, leaks, etc. (30 minutes). Reinstall body panels (30 minutes). Road test (30 minutes). So I think the times I've estimated add up to almost 4 hours, and I'm probably forgetting some important step. I think it actually took me about six hours of work. I think the dealer shops around Virginia are charging in the neighborhood of $100 an hour. So $440 seems to be a fair charge.
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The part is around 70 bucks plus shipping, so 90 dollars sounds about right. The issue is; was it a quote or an estimate? If you have documentation, a quote is a binding document. An estimate is not. It is never, ever OK for a shop to increase a charge 100% without a courtesy call to the customer. If it were me I would offer them $330.00 dollars for the labor. Thats halfway between what you were told and what you were charged. And then I would never use them again.
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Correct me if wrong but seems that stator failure is related to rectifier-regulator failures for the 300 to 700 series Kymcos. The substitute is a Honda reg-rect by Shendengen. Same connectors, same number and color of wires, bigger heat sink. Should fit most scoots. I have not had to try one but Peter Kapitar (arrow76) in Hungary has had this fix since early this year and it works great. Not much can go wrong with a stator but it can be destroyed quickly when the rect-reg take a puke. This is someting I suspect the dealer techs are totally unaware.
Karl
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I second Mr. Paul's motion: At the least, you should have gotten a call beforehand, but I suspect the mechanic(s) didn't know the extent of the labor involved until they were knuckle deep and hours into repairing your bike. That's your cost for the shop hiring ignorant mechanics: the customer pays for their education.
If you have a written estimate you have some moral/negotiating leverage but they have possession of the bike, so consider it a ransom negotiation. Here in California a shop can hold your bike and lien sale it for failure to pay the bill, but I'm pretty sure they will settle for something less then the full pop if you are friendly but firm in your negotiating, and not too righteous. Or you can break into the shop at night and steal your bike....
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P.S. Sorry for the glib comment about stealing your bike. Some tips: Assume the shop is honest and not trying to rob you; convey the attitude that you want to continue to do business with them (even if you don't) and you would be a very happy/satisfied customer if you got some relief (discount) on the bill due to the enormous difference between the estimate and the final cost and...the lack of a courtesy call before the job was done. Unless the owner is a fool, he wants your repeat business so your main strategy is to convince him to make you a happy/repeat customer by adjusting the bill. Arguing that his mechanics spent way too much time on the job wouldn't work with me when I had a shop so I don't think that will work, even though you are right.
When he does hit that magic number that you can live with smile, thank him, then firebomb his shop that night. (Oops, there I go again, sorry)
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I don’t know the laws concerning estimates on cycles. But in Florida an auto repair facility can NOT exceed a written estimate by more than 10% up to 100.00 without permission from the customer by a phone call or in writing. A phone call must be documented. If there is no written estimate or signature saying that an estimate is not requested then the max they can make a customer pay is 150 or so.
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Damn good law, Forbes1964. Almost a good reason to move to FL. But:
Suppose the shop owner says: "F--- the law, I'm not releasing your bike until you pay the bill." What recourse does the owner have? Small Claims Court? Hire-a-thug? What I'm getting at is that it is smarter to negotiate a ransom then it is to fight it out legally, even if you know you will prevail...eventually. We are talking a couple hundred bucks here, fer crissake.
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Thank you for all the incite, I really appreciate. I believe what I've gotten out of this is 6 hours sounds about right. Although if ya'll happen to not be mechanics I'd imagine a shop should have it done sooner. But I won't harp on that. I'm glad ya'll agree that they should have contacted me. I believe it was a estimate and not a quote I guess. Cause I never signed anything. I'm just boggled that they thought it'd be totally fine to just double it without saying.
I know its just a couple hundred bucks. I was desperate to get answers before I go up there b/c to me right now 200 dollars might as well be 2 grand. I'm worrying about keeping the lights on and stuff let alone paying 200 more dollars for a repair. but i'm in a position where its my only transportation so i'm literally at these peoples mercy. If they had told me 300 or more originally I would have turned it down and either attempted to do it myself with a car-smarter friend. Or keep my battery charged. So if they won't come down on the price or do a payment plan, then i'm not sure what to do other then right a horrible review so that the next person won't use them.
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Obviously they didn’t know what they were doing or talking about. You don’t double the price, without getting approval first. They should honor the original price and eat the extra expense
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This sounds like your only transport. Negotiate either lower price or payment plan. The fact is (kept to yourself during negotiations) dealer techs have, generally, little or no experience on these bikes. The techs generally are under pressure to fix quickly to get their commission so they just throw parts at a problem until it goes away. Very few and we could name two are on this forum or even read it. Please keep us posted on what transpires.
Karl
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Everyone gave good advice and you should be able to get some relief in your negotiation. Motorcycle shops serve a very small market and they cannot abuse customers and stay in business long. If appealing to reasonableness doesn't work how about threatening to picket the shop with a sign saying "Beware this shop. Let me tell you my experience with them." I always wanted to try this last ditch strategy. In the USA it's legal to protest and picket, as long as you don't block traffic. How long do you think they could put up with someone picketing their shop?
Let us know how it went. You might also mention you have a lot of fellow scooterists watching them and how they treat you.
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So it was 400 when I walked in. If nothing else the people in this shop are really good at de-escalating and verbal customer service. Honestly I could learn a thing or two in that regard for my job. But they said the owner wasn't in that day and they couldn't adjust anything. They tried to call but he didn't answer. (Kid emergency I think they said). So I paid the 400 wanting to be done and they promised that the owner would call me tomorrow to fix this or explain the business side or something. Well on the way home the bike hut off twice and stopped turning over in my driveway. So yeah. I'm bummed out. I called them and they are going to pick it up in the morning and let me use a rental scooter for free. But I don't know if that matters cause I literally can't give another dime if there is any hope for me to keep the lights on....
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Did they give you the old stator? Get it if you can. Their diagnosis and repair did not fix the problem.
Karl
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Stator / regulator replacement on both of my bikes earlier this year probably took me about 6 hours each, and I am *not* a motorcycle (or mechanical) technician. A ton of time was spent just getting one of the screws holding down the old timing coil off, as it seemed to have seized.
Draining the oil and antifreeze is part and parcel of replacing the stator. In any event, the stator doesn't need to be replaced unless the battery isn't charging - this results in the scooter NOT STARTING, not in it cutting out. If the bike is not charging, you will see the display go wacky many many miles before the bike actually dies, and you will not be able to restart it. (Actually, you won't be able to restart it long before the instrument cluster goes wacky, but I digress.)
It sounds like the mechanic isn't sure what is wrong and is replacing the parts shotgun.
I will also reiterate that I am of the opinion, that the Xciting 500 IS NOT RELIABLE ENOUGH TO BE A SOLE MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION. Kymco kind of screwed the pooch on that motor. If you are in bad financial straits, I recommend selling the bike and getting one of their 250cc or 300cc models, which can also do highway travel, and have suitably reliable drivetrains to be a primary vehicle.
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Damn good law, Forbes1964. Almost a good reason to move to FL. But:
Suppose the shop owner says: "F--- the law, I'm not releasing your bike until you pay the bill." What recourse does the owner have? Small Claims Court? Hire-a-thug? What I'm getting at is that it is smarter to negotiate a ransom then it is to fight it out legally, even if you know you will prevail...eventually. We are talking a couple hundred bucks here, fer crissake.
Usually, simply letting the business owner know you are aware of the law is a good negotiation tool. Most don’t want the hassle of having to deal with the department of agriculture and consumer services or small claims. From that point I recommend then negotiating a REASONABLE compromise that both the shop and the customer can live with, especially if the work was needed, and the vehicle is fixed. MOST of the time they didn’t set out to rip you off.
I remember many years ago I gave an estimate for a timing belt on a vehicle off the top of my head not realizing that there was a MAJOR design change that year. I was in too deep once I discovered that not only the labor was off ( which I could absorb since I was doing the work myself) . But the car had an additional belt AND both it and the accompanying water pump were more expensive. Of course I continued with the repair since the car was partially disassembled. When the customer came for pickup, I explained what happened and threw myself at his mercy. Both of us knew that he could legally take the car for the original estimate. But he was a regular and understood. So he paid the additional parts price, and I ate the additional labor. He checked other places and found that My price was still lower than the competition. His car was fixed. I took a smaller loss than I feared. And our relationship was preserved .
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So it was 400 when I walked in. If nothing else the people in this shop are really good at de-escalating and verbal customer service. Honestly I could learn a thing or two in that regard for my job. But they said the owner wasn't in that day and they couldn't adjust anything. They tried to call but he didn't answer. (Kid emergency I think they said). So I paid the 400 wanting to be done and they promised that the owner would call me tomorrow to fix this or explain the business side or something. Well on the way home the bike hut off twice and stopped turning over in my driveway. So yeah. I'm bummed out. I called them and they are going to pick it up in the morning and let me use a rental scooter for free. But I don't know if that matters cause I literally can't give another dime if there is any hope for me to keep the lights on....
Well, I hope they fix it and TEST it this time around. Hopefully, you can negotiate with the actual owner this time.
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6 hours sounds about right if it were me doing it, but I'm also not a mechanic (or several). I thought part of the reason for high hourly rates was they know exactly what they're doing. And they should be able to give you semi-accurate estimates because of that.
Also, two months to do 6 hours of work?
You mentioned you might have instead done it yourself with help. I would strongly recommend doing it that way in the future, since you don't have an abundance of money and you can probably count on this happening again with the shop.
One of the nice things about motorcycles is that repairs and maintenance are pretty easy to do yourself. You could put some money in your friend's pocket instead, and have an incredibly useful skill to show for it in the end.
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What a mucking fess! This is why I have always owned several older, inexpensive cars or motorcycles: when one breaks I have others to carry me, and others to tinker with in the meantime. I never understood why most folks put all their money---and faith---in one vehicle.
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Welp the end of this story is I had the rental scooter for several weeks while they looked at my bike. The owner called the night they let me use the rental to apologize for them not calling me when the bill was changing so drastically. He said they should have called me. He offered to refund me $150 dollars. Which I thought was pretty fair.
So the scooter place had my bikes a couple more weeks. During this time they called me pretty much using jargon that they couldn't find anything wrong with it and that it was user error and that I could come up there and they would "teach" me how to use. I figured, who knows, I'm new to scooters so maybe it is me. I'll try to do w/e they say diligently and bring the bike back to them if it continues. So the guy pulled it around the store and got off and was like "let me show you how to start it." So he got back on the bike and it wouldn't start. Which I thought was amazing. Cause if it had done that on the way home for me I imagine I would have been blamed. So the end of the story is that they couldn't figure out whats wrong but guess that it was probably the wiring harness and that it would be thousands of dollars to fix (probably to get me to take my bike back I would guess). They did drop it off at my house for me and pick up there bike.
So they where the only place in town that would look at it. So now I either have to sell it or fix it with some friends. I posted on here for help on troubleshooting. So maybe something will come out of that.
Sorry it took so long to finish the story. Thank ya'll for your advice and thoughts!
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Not surprised that they cannot fix it. Not surprised they have no clue. They have pretty well filled my expectations. Now, how involved are you willing to work on this? I have no idea the transport problem you have while trying to fix this but with the knowledge on here the solution may be at hand. All you have to do is decide. We will be ready.
Karl
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Not surprised that they cannot fix it. Not surprised they have no clue. They have pretty well filled my expectations. Now, how involved are you willing to work on this? I have no idea the transport problem you have while trying to fix this but with the knowledge on here the solution may be at hand. All you have to do is decide. We will be ready.
Karl
Pretty much I take the bus to and from work. It's not fun but means I don't have to walk the whole way there. I want to fix it. I'm working overtime this week so I'm hoping to be able to buy the parts in the next week or two for it. I'm thankful for the help. I'll borrow a (multimeter?) On Sunday to start testing things.
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Check your other post for info. We will get it! Hypophthalmus gave you the first steps. Read the 500i posts and decide what aftermarket battery you want.
Karl