KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 700i => Topic started by: MJR on June 27, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
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So I've got a stalling problem with the MyRoad 700i. Last week (5,322 miles) I was riding and when I came up to a stop light the engine died (electrical all still on). The bike restarted and I got home.
Today I was ready to ride up to LA but needed to hit the bank and gas station first. Before I made it to either as I was riding I lost all throttle response, the bike started loosing speed, I looked down to see the engine at 1,000 rpm, coasted into a parking lot (5,326 miles) and the engine died (still had electrical on). The bike restarted so I figured it I make it to the bank and gas station I'll see it I can make it to LA. I made it to the bank and gas station so I jumped on the freeway headed north but while riding at about 75 mph in the carpool lane the engine died again (5,335 miles) so I put my turn signal on and drifted all the way to the right side of the road. Once stopped I tried to restart it but it just cranked without trying to start. I did this a few times while playing with the switches, no change. Next I cranked it over while opening the throttle a little, it started once and died again. A few more tries lightly feathering the throttle and she started again. I got off the freeway and returned home on surface streets without further issue.
One other odd thing I noticed this morning (bike off) was the trunk LED light was randomly flickering. Tapping on the light or playing with the seat latch which has the switch in it made no difference. I just figured the LED was going south in it with the on/off and dim/bright thing going on.
Ok so there is another MyRoad 700i owner in Escondido I know and several weeks ago his engine kept dying on him also though his would die after 6 minutes of starting it and would not restart for nearly an hour then die after a few minutes again. His bike is still at the dealer where they ordered a stator for it (I'm assuming the crank sensor is part of it like my B650). They have not torn down the bike yet so my guess is maybe they have a scan tool and might see the stator or crank sensor dropping out? Another odd thing when I was talking to him I mentioned seeing my trunk light flickering and he said his was doing the same thing, weird.
In all the world has anyone had the same problem and what fixed it?
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Could this be another vent valve problem? You know me, MJ, I get one solution and that's it! At least I'm not hollering "INITIALIZE!"
Karl
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Not sure how that would be an issue, fuel injected and in California the fuel tank vents to a carbon cannister to store the fuel vapors then vents to the air. When the bike first stalled on me I was already thinking about Bud's bike in Escondido and the problem he is having with his. I was thinking they started making the MyRoad in 2008, you'd think they would have the bugs worked out. Seems likely a common problem except finding other forums in countries take have had them longer seems to be an issue. Are there any forums for scooters in Taiwan I could run through a translator?
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Oh, believe me, it is a BIG deal! It was the cause of wife's Genuine Buddy 150 "Stall of Shame" and my DT300i "wonky idle" that drove me nuts! Venting the gas cap solved both and that was on the forums. Now, there have been voltage issues that have caused poor/low idle and engine failure that were regulator/rectifier and stator issues. Just that the vent is easier to find/eliminate first.
Karl
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I have seen a loose grounding connection and a loose battery post terminal cause some pretty weird stuff.
A failing battery also comes to mind - with these EFI/ECU scoots.
Are you still under the 2 yr warranty?
One of the issues was aggravated by the vibrations of an engine, or over the road vibes - the other was acting weird with the engine off, but key on AND sometimes with key off!
Hope you get it sorted MJR without a lot of hassle.
Stig
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Checked the charging system, 14 volts at 5,000 rpm, battery connections are good. I'm gonna send an email off to the rep on Monday and see what he has to say.
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A week in and still no reply from Chip at Kymco USA. Took the scoot out today and the engine stalled once again on the way home. Forwarded my e-mail to Steven at Kymco USA now to see whats up. Called the dealer in San Diego to ask about what was causing the other guys problem. They said the pickup in the stator was causing his to not have spark. While mine takes a little bit of playing with it will restart at this point where his was just dead for an hour. Hmm I may have some other issue.
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Shortly after emailing Steven I got a reply from both of them. Asked me to check the spark plug wires. I was out riding it today and the first trip out was good so I decided to head up the freeway and the engine stalled out on me in the carpool lane. I coasted to the left side emergency lane. The bike wouldn't restart just cranked over. The check engine light flashed out 2-4-2-4. I pulled the maintenance cover and tried to pull a plug wire off but it was too hot and on tight. After sitting a bit I tried again and the bike started so I promptly got off the freeway. Shortly afterward on surface streets the engine stalled again and wouldn't start for a while. Got it started again and headed toward home. It stalled again and the check engine light flashed out 2-2-2-2. I pulled a plug wire and everything looked fine. No change in starting after popping the gas cap open. After sitting a bit I managed to get it started again and made it home. I looked through the service manual to find the code it was flashing over the check engine light is likely 02 or P0335 for the crank position sensor which is pretty much what I suspected. I guess I should pull the body work off again and double check the wires just to eliminate them as a possible cause.
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ummmm MJ,
Crossbolts Karl and the other members of your therapy team would suggest that you quit coasting around on SoCal freeways with a scoot that is repeatedly stalling on you! I haven't been on a SoCal freeway in a long time - but I do not remember them as being places where it's good sport to reach down and turn the key off - repeatedly!
Test ride the thing in your church lot....for Pete's sake :)!
Just sayin'
Stig
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ummmm MJ,
Crossbolts Karl and the other members of your therapy team would suggest that you quit coasting around on SoCal freeways with a scoot that is repeatedly stalling on you! Test ride the thing in your church lot....for Pete's sake :)!
Figured I'd take it out and see if the problem got worse and least then it would be easier to track down. I'm pretty certain it's the crank sensor (tripping a code for it) or wiring and I am certain that's the same problem on the other one down south of me too. I'm gonna pull the body work off and visually check over the wiring to/from the crank sensor (called a cam sensor in the parts catalog since they use two of the same part number 37292-LBF2-900, one for the cam in the cylinder head, and the other in the right engine cover for the crank). Besides I need to track down where my rear foot peg release cable is binding since I last had some of the bodywork off.
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I have much faith in your diagnostic skills MJ, but you're really stressing your Angels running these tests out there on the super-slab!
:-)
Stig
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For certain it was interesting stopped in the left hand emergency lane on the freeway with cars whizzing by.
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The problem with the truck light LED flickering is of course the LED itself. I connected a voltmeter across the connector and voltage stays the same. I also connected another 12 volt LED panel I had across it and no flickering. Two MyRoad bikes (mine and the guy in Escondido) and two trunk light LED failures, quality!
I pulled the bike out of the garage and let it run on the centerstand. Yes after warm and a while running the engine stalls. It won't restart for a little while and verified I have no spark when it won't start. Wiring has a few minor issues but not related to my issue just future potential problems maybe. Well I tried several things and nothing seemed to make a difference until I decided to try an old Jeep trick. I pulled the crank sensor out to have a look, appeared ok but while had it out I put it in a cup of cold water for seconds, wiped it dry, and put it back in. The bike would restart immediately after doing this. If I left it in it took much longer before the bike would start again. I guess my suspicion of the crank sensor was right on and agrees with a crank sensor code.
Now I just have to get Kymco USA to replace the parts.
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Good work, MJ.
Was wondering - where are you in the warranty period for electrical parts on your 700? (which for my LIKE200I was 540 days *)
Or, is it a part of emission control system warranty? - which for 280cc and larger is 5 yrs, or 30,000 kilometers, 18,641 miles?
Stig
*everything - 365 days
Engine & electrical - 540 days
Engine - 730 days
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Good work, MJ.
Was wondering - where are you in the warranty period for electrical parts on your 700? (which for my LIKE200I was 540 days *)
Or, is it a part of emission control system warranty? - which for 280cc and larger is 5 yrs, or 30,000 kilometers, 18,641 miles?
Stig
*everything - 365 days
Engine & electrical - 540 days
Engine - 730 days
Yes it turns out I am covered 100% but likely to be without the bike for 2-3 weeks again while they repair it.
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Dropped the scoot off at the dealer in Riverside, should have their take on it by Wednesday.
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Here's a bit more detailed information.
I was emailing back and forth with the reps, I told them it needs a trunk light and likely a crank sensor, he asked for VIN and said it was still under warranty (thought it was parts only at this point but thanks to Stig posting Kymco warranty information I dug out my owners pack). The rep suggested working on it myself might void my warranty. I replied back that my 30 years of experience included making wiring harnesses for concept cars such as the Plymouth Prowler concept among many others not only that but 2/3 of that time as a Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep mechanic specializing in A/C, electrical, and driveability.
So i decided to at least have a look myself so I removed the rear body panels (left them off when I took ithe to the dealer so they wouldn't have to mess with them as I did when it needed a shock). Tested power to the trunk light with a voltmeter, test light, and another 12 volt LED panel I had. All agree the voltage to the light is fine and the problem is with a failing LED in the light itself.
If I start the bike on the center stand cold it will run for 8 minutes, the engine will stall, and it does not want to start for several minutes. When it won't start I confirmed that I have no spark (used a spare plug against the cylinder head cover). Once the bike cools a bit I get spark back and the bike will run. The check engine light will flash out 2-2-2-2. Based on my years of experience working on Jeeps I suspect the crank sensor. Looking through the factory service manual a code 02 is loss of crank signal. So one of the tricks I learned many years ago with the Jeeps was when a crank sensor was a problem and the engine died when hot pouring some cold water on it allowed the engine to restart right away. I tried this on the outside of the MyRoad but the sensor is in the side case almost all the way. I removed the crank sensor bolt and ran the bike until it died. I immediately pulled the crank sensor out, dunked it into a glass of cold water for 5 seconds, wiped it dry, and put it back in. Result the bike would restart immediately rather than having to wait several minutes suggesting to me that is the issue. Crank sensors can fail two ways on the Jeeps. The early ones were a two wire small AC voltage generating signal. These would heat cycle over years eventually leading to the wire inside breaking. So they would get hot and go open circuit until it cooled down again. The later type (like the one on the MyRoad) used a 3 wire powered sensor. When these type failed you could either loose the signal from it or it could short out the power feed from the engine controller (5 volt in Jeeps but it appears Kymco uses 12 volts) which would pull down power to all the other shared power sensors which could also result in being unable to communicate with the engine controller via a scan tool (often those who didn't know that would like the engine controller was bad but all you needed to do was unplug the bad crank sensor and then you can communicate via the scan tool). Since I earlier got a code 02 (no crank signal) and 04 (no power to sensors) I suspect the crank sensor is shorting out the sensor voltage from the ECU affects the others.
The thing that really sucks here is this other guy in Escondido has the same two part failures as my bike and both have around 5,000 miles on them. His bike has been at a dealer in San Diego for two months now! I stated to the rep that this was very disconcerting and maybe they should offer some kind of extended warranty if these were going to have to be replaced every 5,000 miles.
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Received a email this morning asking for the mileage on the scoot and that the rep would call Malcolm Smith Motorsports and check on it. Second email later that the bike is scheduled to be looked at tomorrow.
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Went out to Malcom Smith today to talk to the tech and advisor. The tech pulled the same code 02 I did, the only issue seems to be his information says it's the cam sensor (same part as the crank just used in the rocker cover). I showed him my Kymco manual it's a crank sensor but it will work in either place if he finds out its the crank one. I guess he pulled the rocker cover to check the tone wheel also which was fine. I guess the rep is out of the office this week so I said go ahead and order the parts and if there is a problem with Kymco I'll cover it. That way I don't have to wait a week if the reps out.
On a side note it sounds as though Malcolm Smith might drop Kymco. It sounds like they might nit be taking care of the dealers.
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Went out to Malcom Smith today to talk to the tech and advisor. The tech pulled the same code 02 I did, the only issue seems to be his information says it's the cam sensor (same part as the crank just used in the rocker cover). I showed him my Kymco manual it's a crank sensor but it will work in either place if he finds out its the crank one. I guess he pulled the rocker cover to check the tone wheel also which was fine. I guess the rep is out of the office this week so I said go ahead and order the parts and if there is a problem with Kymco I'll cover it. That way I don't have to wait a week if the reps out.
On a side note it sounds as though Malcolm Smith might drop Kymco. It sounds like they might nit be taking care of the dealers.
Dang MJ, hope you get this sorted.
Too nice a bike to be having issues again.
On a side note..
Malcome Smith rings some kinda bell with me. Wasn't he the guy who did the Steve McQueen jump in the Great Escape?
He had some sort of connection with McQueen I'm pretty sure.
Anyway, that must be a big shop - and sad to hear they might be dropping Kymco. Scooter sales are not brisk anywhere I think - Kymco needs M.S. - more than M.S. needs to sell Kymcos.
Took the Burgman for coffee this morning just to keep things wetted down, still hoping to trade it for an ABS Forza w/low miles. Hope not to have too much competition with this....can't be that many folks looking to trade in that direction!? "I want smaller !"
Stig
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Got a call from the dealer, parts came in, warranty repairs authorized, and should be done late Friday for pickup Saturday I hope. I'll be curious to see if the mechanic has to actually put the sensor in the crank location to fix it.
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I went and picked up the scoot today as they called and said it was ready. They replaced the trunk light LED and according the the paperwork the cam sensor and valve cover gasket. When I was there last time I told the guy if it was the crank sensor at least he could swap in the old cam sensor since they are the same part. So when I got it home I decided to have a look for myself. All the rear bodywork I had already removed before I took it in to them so I decided to pull the seat and center tunnel to check the work for myself. They did the repairs as stated on the paperwork but in looking at the crank sensor and connector I noticed it wasn't the same one that was in there when I brought them the scoot. I know this because the sensor that was in there had a problem with one of the tabs that holds the terminal in the connector (wasn't the problem), whether I had caused it or it was already a problem I don't know but I tried unsuccessfully to fix it before I took it in to the dealer. What would happen was if you unplugged the sensor and plugged it back in one of the terminals would back out of the connector. Then I just pushed it back in and it was ok. I unplugged that connector and all the tabs were intact I knew they had taken the old cam sensor they thought was bad and put it in the crank sensors place. So I am confident that my original diagnosis was correct and the crank sensor was the problem. Below is a photo of that now intact connector and 4 good terminal tabs.
I would like to say I am very impressed with Malcolm Smith's service department in the couple of times I've been in. Before I brought it home I looked it over and let it run for 15-20 minutes to make sure it was ok. I found one panel with a broken tab but it had already cracked on me a previous time I had it off so that not their fault. Also found one missing screw so I took the other side one in to show him what it looked like and Mike went back and found it. Very professional I think these guys are especially considering that the other owners MyRoad is still in the service department at a San Diego dealer and his was in a month before mine with the same problems.
I got the scoot home and went through putting all the bodywork back on then went out for a 45 mile ride down the coast and back up the freeway, all back to normal. After riding the Aprilia Atlantic 500 around this MyRoad seems blazingly fast, I LIKE IT!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4313/35448254763_b6cde9b885_b.jpg)
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Yeay! I am REALLY am glad to hear your positive comments on a dealer and his shop techs. He and his boys need to be shown as a good example. You actually diagnosed this afliction and they acted on it! Really happy your ride is back.
Karl