KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: eakins on April 03, 2017, 08:03:56 PM
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Considering both of these for my wife's bigger scoot.
She has a Yager 200i now for around town, but need something that she can stay with my 650 Vstrom when we multi-day tour.
Also considering a BV350 for the upright motorcycle ergos, but like the wind protection on these bikes.
How do they compare for long tours reliability wise?
The Forza is made in Thailand and the DT Taiwan.
Worried the DT seat is too low/uncomfortable for all day touring.
What are the know DT issues that must be addressed?
The early Forzas had waterpump and fuel pump issues.
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Regarding the Honda FORZA, which seems to be out of USA distribution following the 2016 models:
Honda issued recalls on a couple of things on the Forza - but only a tiny % of us owners ever had these parts actually fail. Honda, like all manufacturers, issue recalls for that small number of models that will have a part-batch fail. I don't know the figures - but I can tell you that a lot of Forza owners have not returned their scoots to the dealer for the recall work.
Hondas are Hondas....and they have plants all over the world. (BMW offers one made in India - but is still a quality built BMW by some accounts)
Taiwanese scooters have a good reputation, as well, with some owners (but have heard a few SYM owners complain of quality issues)
I have a Japanese made maxi scooter - and it seems to be well made, with no recalls whatsoever - but if a Vietnamese made Forza was sitting next to it .....I know which one I'd be waxing and riding.
I also have a Chinese made Kymco that is smooth and a blast to ride and service for 4 yrs!
Stig
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To keep up with your Vstrome.... maybe the Honda X-ADV or Yamaha T-Max?
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As chance would have it, I was just looking at this today.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/midsize-motoscooter-melee-video (http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/midsize-motoscooter-melee-video)
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Regarding the Honda FORZA, which seems to be out of USA distribution following the 2016 models:
Honda issued recalls on a couple of things on the Forza - but only a tiny % of us owners ever had these parts actually fail. Honda, like all manufacturers, issue recalls for that small number of models that will have a part-batch fail. I don't know the figures - but I can tell you that a lot of Forza owners have not returned their scoots to the dealer for the recall work.
Hondas are Hondas....and they have plants all over the world. (BMW offers one made in India - but is still a quality built BMW by some accounts)
Taiwanese scooters have a good reputation, as well, with some owners (but have heard a few SYM owners complain of quality issues)
I have a Japanese made maxi scooter - and it seems to be well made, with no recalls whatsoever - but if a Vietnamese made Forza was sitting next to it .....I know which one I'd be waxing and riding.
I also have a Chinese made Kymco that is smooth and a blast to ride and service for 4 yrs!
Stig
Thanks.
I've been reading on the Forzas (14-16 for the US so far) and the 14s had an issue where the waterpump was slighly oversized and the Thai assemblers just hammered it in...with issues of course.
The 3rd fuel pump was finally a good version.
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To keep up with your Vstrome.... maybe the Honda X-ADV or Yamaha T-Max?
No X-adv in US & T-max is alot more heavy.
My daughter rides with me and we will only tour at 65-70 mph anyway so 300cc is ideal for my wife.
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As chance would have it, I was just looking at this today.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/midsize-motoscooter-melee-video (http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/midsize-motoscooter-melee-video)
Perfect thanks.
CityCom is kinda in the mix but i'm getting mixed messages to it's quality.
Engine is great but many other parts are sub par.
Bummer because it's the best touring package; upright tall wheel with wind protection and touring comfort.
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Is a DT tall seat option legit?
My wife has 30" inseam and I keep hearing the DT is tight and the forward cruiser touring foot placement is too high up, stirrups high. The Xciting is a better design here but heavier. The Forza is like the XC in this regard.
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Is a DT tall seat option legit?
My wife has 30" inseam and I keep hearing the DT is tight and the forward cruiser touring foot placement is too high up, stirrups high. The Xciting is a better design here but heavier. The Forza is like the XC in this regard.
I also have a 30' inseam and i use the foot forward.
Yes they are two high but i use them 1 leg at a time. Done 2500 miles that way and not as problem.
Both up and its exam time....
Here's what it comes down to.
The forza has less power more weight. To me the ride was about the same as the DT but the Honda motor is smoother. You also get ABS and i wont start that discussion.
The DT. No recall no issues.
The honda is a honda and you'll pay honda prices.
Or scroll to the bottom of link.
http://www.heinenmotorsports.com/kymco.html (http://www.heinenmotorsports.com/kymco.html)
Just sayn
Amac
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Perfect thanks.
CityCom is kinda in the mix but i'm getting mixed messages to it's quality.
Engine is great but many other parts are sub par.
Bummer because it's the best touring package; upright tall wheel with wind protection and touring comfort.
Do bear in mind that the 2016+ Citycom 300I is pretty much the same body but different engine that has much better power, & from what I can find similar or slightly better MPG.
It's a bike I'd like to see in the flesh, maybe test ride, but so far nogo on that around here. I'm debating downsizing my B650. A nice bike, but I've been enjoying lighter bikes more of late. Perhaps the summer riding season will convince me to keep it.
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Do bear in mind that the 2016+ Citycom 300I is pretty much the same body but different engine that has much better power, & from what I can find similar or slightly better MPG.
It's a bike I'd like to see in the flesh, maybe test ride, but so far nogo on that around here. I'm debating downsizing my B650. A nice bike, but I've been enjoying lighter bikes more of late. Perhaps the summer riding season will convince me to keep it.
It's a nice scooter but one SYM never seemed to push on the dealers. Few if any on the floor.
That's if you can find a dealer.
I've loved my SYMs but now three years after their effort to build dealer network I'm not so sure.
Great bikes crappy dealer network.
AMAC
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I also have a 30' inseam and i use the foot forward.
Yes they are two high but i use them 1 leg at a time. Done 2500 miles that way and not as problem.
Both up and its exam time....
Here's what it comes down to.
The forza has less power more weight. To me the ride was about the same as the DT but the Honda motor is smoother. You also get ABS and i wont start that discussion.
The DT. No recall no issues.
The honda is a honda and you'll pay honda prices.
Or scroll to the bottom of link.
http://www.heinenmotorsports.com/kymco.html (http://www.heinenmotorsports.com/kymco.html)
Just sayn
Amac
Great price on that DT for sure. Thanks.
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Do bear in mind that the 2016+ Citycom 300I is pretty much the same body but different engine that has much better power, & from what I can find similar or slightly better MPG.
It's a bike I'd like to see in the flesh, maybe test ride, but so far nogo on that around here. I'm debating downsizing my B650. A nice bike, but I've been enjoying lighter bikes more of late. Perhaps the summer riding season will convince me to keep it.
I've seen on the website they went with the larger motor that was found for years in other markets.
Not sure if it's a bore or stroke difference, but not really a new motor per say.
More power is always key in the mountains.
I sat on 1 last year and it was comfy for sure.
Many say the motor is solid but switches etc on SYM are junk.
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It's a nice scooter but one SYM never seemed to push on the dealers. Few if any on the floor.
That's if you can find a dealer.
I've loved my SYMs but now three years after their effort to build dealer network I'm not so sure.
Great bikes crappy dealer network.
AMAC
Yeah it's almost like they are non-existant.
I've heard parts are hard to come by and $$$.
True?
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Yeah it's almost like they are non-existant.
I've heard parts are hard to come by and $$$.
True?
The legend of SYM parts, lol.
I put 40,000 miles on two SYMs and a Lance. Never had a parts issue but I never needed anything other than consumables. I also had one of the few big, stocking SYM dealers nearby. They had parts on hand.
Great scoots tough as nails but I'm a little warrry about the overall picture.
As much as I don't like to pay a premium my next scoot would be the Honda adv if it ever gets here.
I'll pay for the novelty done with Honda quality.
AMAC
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The legend of SYM parts, lol.
I put 40,000 miles on two SYMs and a Lance. Never had a parts issue but I never needed anything other than consumables. I also had one of the few big, stocking SYM dealers nearby. They had parts on hand.
Great scoots tough as nails but I'm a little warrry about the overall picture.
As much as I don't like to pay a premium my next scoot would be the Honda adv if it ever gets here.
I'll pay for the novelty done with Honda quality.
AMAC
The day I drove 30 miles to look at the SYM line-up....I was already a fan after reading up on the line and getting good comments from a friend who refurbished & resold Reflexes - plus visiting the SYM forum.
That shed full of ea. model was really exciting to see. So many great looking scooters and a couple motorcycles in different colors.
But, I was standing in a garden shed (albeit, a new one) with the owner, who walked me over from his HVAC co. building....past his defunct shop. "Sales girl quit this summer. Mechanic quit last winter. I start each of them every week or two."
As impressed as I was with the product - I was a bit leery of starting my scootering career with pretty much no company back-up....although he assured me that they were "very reliable and pretty easy to home-service". Then I read about the U.S. distributor burning his bldg down...... and, sadly, I went off to see the hard-selling boys at my local mega-bike shop. Paying full-bull for my Kymco.
Fine scooters. But dang; living in the wrong country, I guess!
Stig
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Alliance has improved things more than a little, but SYM is still having to work at getting reestablished, & that in a country where bike sales have been declining.
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To the original OP post.
Seat - foot ergonomics would be the issue.
IMO, find a used Burgman 400 or work on the above issues.
My Downtown will cruise at 75 mph all day is that enough to keep
up with the DL650?
Had a Burg 400 and 650 a while back.
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Saw a super low mileage Forza going for $2500.
Considered buying it....but never will buy anything again on 2 wheels that doesn't have ABS.
Stig
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Saw a super low mileage Forza going for $2500.
Considered buying it....but never will buy anything again on 2 wheels that doesn't have ABS.
Stig
Good choice mate. May the ABS be with you.
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Saw a super low mileage Forza going for $2500.
Considered buying it....but never will buy anything again on 2 wheels that doesn't have ABS.
Stig
I'm with you on that these days.
I think the ABS option is going to steer my choice above all for my wife.
That leaves me with Forza and BV, plus the BV has traction control.
Is Kymco adding abs to any new scoots for 2018?
I've still got an eye open towards Yamaha and hopefully the X-max 300 comes to the US in 18.
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I rode the DT 300 and BV350 back to back and purchased the BV for two pretty clear reasons; ABS and the more solid feel. I'm a real fan of Kymco and found the decision came down to the above verses the known reliability of Kymco products. I had just sold a Vespa 250ie based on its lack of reliability and funky design elements (hard to work on and lack of quality OEM parts). In the end the ABS and solid feel carried the day. So far, I'm very happy with the BV's ABS and handling and less excited with some design details that would not have been found on the People (funky mirror mounting design and hard to get to, hose clamps and spark plug cap need to be replaced, out of the box).
If the BV turns out to be unreliable or to have high and difficult maintenance it will be gone. I would replace it with a Kymco (300-550 size) or Yamaha product (300-530 size).
Happy scooting!
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I rode the DT 300 and BV350 back to back and purchased the BV for two pretty clear reasons; ABS and the more solid feel. I'm a real fan of Kymco and found the decision came down to the above verses the known reliability of Kymco products. I had just sold a Vespa 250ie based on its lack of reliability and funky design elements (hard to work on and lack of quality OEM parts). In the end the ABS and solid feel carried the day. So far, I'm very happy with the BV's ABS and handling and less excited with some design details that would not have been found on the People (funky mirror mounting design and hard to get to, hose clamps and spark plug cap need to be replaced, out of the box).
If the BV turns out to be unreliable or to have high and difficult maintenance it will be gone. I would replace it with a Kymco (300-550 size) or Yamaha product (300-530 size).
Happy scooting!
Please keep posting your experiences with the BV....I came real close to buying that pretty scooter.
Went with the Forza. did not regret it...but that Italian is an awfully good looking scooter.
Probably should find a BV forum just to tag along.
Stig
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I'm riding it to Napa in a few minutes for lunch.
Looking forward to the handling as the road has ~200 turns and is great fun.
Comment: Locking the forks with the key is a PITA. There seems to be something stopping the key from rotating smoothly. No, it's not that the forks aren't in the right position, etc.
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I'm riding it to Napa in a few minutes for lunch.
Looking forward to the handling as the road has ~200 turns and is great fun.
Comment: Locking the forks with the key is a PITA. There seems to be something stopping the key from rotating smoothly. No, it's not that the forks aren't in the right position, etc.
Pull the fork with left hand, twist key gently with right hand, say P A S T A slowly. It wiill snap in place like a Swiss Guard!
Italians must be persuaded.
Slow in, fast out.....watching for Olives and/or sand in the apexes.
Stig
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A couple people wrote that "honda is a honda "
I did some research and interviewed a few scientists and came to the following conclusion:
You were right. A Honda is indeed, a Honda.
I sat on a Forza when they first came out at a local dealership and I got right back off of it. It looked and felt like a cheap piece of work to me.
It sat low, the seat was a low gloss flat black and looked very cheaply made. Knowing they are heavier with less hp and lower mpg than my high tech, modern looking DT300 (Orange Crusher ) I never gave Honda another thought.
On a side note I have an 02 Civic in my yard with a blown head gasket after never being treated badly, and a 2yr old Honda 2000 generator that needs starter fluid, Seafoam, and a prayer to start than dam thing if it sets longer than 3 days without being started.
I have a 99 Nissan Altima that has been abused and has 378, 000 miles on it.
I drive it every day. I have a PowerHouse 3100 portable generator (Taiwan) that is 6 yrs old, sets out in the rain and sometimes snow for months. Its in the barn right now and I can aim the remote towards the wall and start it from 80 feet away at any time.
I had a SYM HD200m that I put 16,000 miles on with no issues whatsoever and if I could, I`d order a MaxSym 400 sight unseen if they had good dealer network.
The only reason I got a DT300 right now is because of the loss of SYM dealers.
I found out, after having it for a while, that I absolutely love this Kymco though. Hands down, an awesome bike. I put 17,000 miles on mine thus far with zero issues worthy of note. I have 14g sliders in it and I`m shopping for 16g sliders at the moment.
I`d have one each Kymco Xciting400 and a MaxSym400 if it were possible.
A Forza? I`ll never ever bother to sit on another one. If I were going to try a "premium" brand I`d go Burgman, hands down, but in all honesty, we have "premium" right out in our driveways/garages right now!
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This is why we have horse races!
The crusher had bad experiences with his Hondas....while I've had nothing but good - 4 motorcycles, 1 mower and one Forza....over a period of 45+ yrs.
I like my new 400 Burgman - loved the Forza. Found no difference in the build quality. Both had teething troubles when first off the assembly line. Forza recalled 'em to fix 'em...early Burgs had to live with the 3 pad clutch,etc. Both are fixed now....but the Forza is still smoother around town., where the Burgman is a bit coarse.
I will admit - the extra $2,000 does get you a nicer looking seat cover on the Burgman....though my bum never had an issue with the nice low center of gravity on the seat of the Forza. My first ride home, across town in heavy city traffic was a breeze on the well balanced Honda scooter..
FORZA is a cooler name than the Burgman, no question! (like some KYMCO's - one has to wonder what the committee was drinking when they came up with the names for their scooters! "B U R G M A N" ?....Skywave is cooler.
As for the Kymco 300's - they are by reputation fine scooters, so say owners and reviewers. Color is different..... probably why that 300 has sat unsold so many yrs at my dealer - but then they released some goofy colored Forzas in Asia, too.
Go figure...
Stig
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I know Goofy !
(http://www.swfgamesource.biz/animal/GoofysHotDogDrop.jpg)
Not a selfie...
redk