KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 8 => Topic started by: dwbaily on March 17, 2017, 12:05:52 PM
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So I just got this scooter from someone with no history. Just over 3500 miles on it. Found an online manual to try and learn what I can. See that it requires 92+ octane gas and not sure if previous rider used that so drained tank and put 93 in and some Chemtool in case of gum. When I ride it going up a semi steephill, it slows down to like 5 mph. No experience with a scooter so not sure if a 50cc scooter does that with a 190 pound person on it or if there is something I need to troubleshoot. No Kymco dealer in Asheville, NC. Any comments/suggestions? Thanks guys!
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How hard is it to start? How well does it idle? How is the acceleration and cruising on level ground? Whats the approximate top speed ? That will help folks get a good picture of what ya got going on.
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Thanks for reply and questions! It starts immediately. The idle is sorta smooth although it's sorta on the high side when I start it. Not sure if that's the choke, if it has one. On flat ground it actually accelerates pretty responsively and cruises smooth even though I've not taken it out on open road yet. Just rode in neighborhood. Not sure about top speed because the Speedo doesn't work. Ordered a sensor for down by the wheel. It's the electronic Speedo they switched to on the 2015 models. The 0 shows up and odometer but neither works when riding it. This thing HATES cold weather too! Was fairly cold this morning and I rode it after changing the spark plug and had to push it up short hill. Wouldn't pull me up it even after trying to get a running start at it a couple of times in my cul-de-sac. Hope that's enough extra info for some ideas. Thanks again.
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Hey Dw. I highly recommend you post this on the general discussion forum. You will get a lot more responses there from some really experienced folk. From what I hear I would recommend you clean the carburetor jets. Most likely the previous owner let it set up too long with ethanol in it and your jets are gunked up some. That is the most common problem. The only way to fix this is to mechanically clear the jets. If you dont know how, look up GY6 carb cleaning on Youtube. Its not hard. As far as preventative maintenance fuel treatments, Seafoam is best. But do post on the other forum if you would. Hope that helps.
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Hey thanks a million for the recommendation! You may very well be right on the ethanol. I put some Berrymans Chemtool in it but only maybe an ounce or two. Will check out your YouTube reference. Gonna take it to the local Kymco shop that is the only one I can find and hope they can check it over. Talked to the Kymco rep in Spartanburg, SC this afternoon and he said they come out of the crate restricted and that derestricting it would help. Whatever that means. Thanks again for the recommendation and reference Mr Paul!
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Tore carb apart and sprayed everything down real good. Seems to have smoothed out the idle but it still won't pull me up a not so steep hill. Its like its either flooding out or the transmission is not fully engaging or something. Bogs down. Just on a hill. So issues on flat ground. Hmmm.......
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Did you unscrew the jets and clean them outside of the carb? I have not had much luck spraying things down. I had to take a small wire and mechanically clean the holes. Some are teeny tiny! The old ethanol takes on the consistency of old sticky varnish.
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Yea I took both jets out and sprayed them really good with carb cleaner but that was it. Couldn't get the pin out that holds the floats in. It was knurled on one end and I didn't have anything to tap it out. No vise to hold it. Not sure if that woulda had anything to do with it though. Watched the YouTube videos as suggested and I'm pretty sure I cleaned it like several did with the exception of taking the floats out. There's a little piece that is down inside the diaphragm that fell out where the long spring goes and I'm hoping that for it to run, there's only one way that it goes in correctly because I didn't see which way it was in there. I put it back in with the spring that fits into one end pointing down. Sound right? Anything else I should check before taking it to the shop? Maybe the belt is worn out or would that present a bogging down under a big load like going up a hill? Scooter has like 3500 miles on it and its probably never been serviced is my guess. Not sure on that. Thanks for feedback! ;)
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If the carb is clean, I am at a loss. Try going up a steep hill, and when it bogs, completely stop and accelerate uphill. If it does not bog, the transmission is not "downshifting" Also take a look at the air filter just in case. But at this point it may save you some heartache to take it to someone who works on scooters to diagnose it. I am sorry I cant be of more help.
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Pretty sure carb is clean. When it bogs and stops on hill then try and go, it won't go. I have to do the Flintstones approach and assist it to go. Airfilter is dirty and I'm waiting on a new one. Cleaned it as much as I could. Thanks again for ideas. Will see what shop thinks I guess.
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You'll probably have to put lighter weights in the variator for better performance on the hills.
Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk
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Thanks for the suggestion!
I read over on the General Discussion forum that somebody that had a hill issue fixed it by changing to a smooth variator boss (whatever that is), changed to Dr Pulley 6.5g variator springs (again whatever that is), and put in a 1500 rpm yellow torque spring (wherever that is). Said the torque spring required him to get like a 39mm driver to install. Said it totally fixed his hill issue. How's that sound? A reply to that suggested going with 5 or 5.5g springs I think is what he was referring to. Not sure why if the guy said the 6.5g ones fixed his problem.
Another guy said to remove some sort of resonator washer (?) from inside the intake boot that connects the carb to the engine that helps derestrict it.
Comments? Thanks all for your input in helping me make this scooter more safe to run on the road. ;)
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whatever that is
NOT seeing much initiative on your part!
Variator removal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZUneVrcgtM) . . 5 gram sliders (http://www.gy6store.com/Dr-Pulley-5gm-16x13-Sliding-Weights-for-50cc-QMB139-MOTORS-DR-PULLEY-5gm-SLIDERS-50cc.htm?categoryId=-1) . . installation orientation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBEwNTXL08c).
http://youtu.be/f_ZZ4AuHaVE (http://youtu.be/f_ZZ4AuHaVE)
http://youtu.be/AATbMHQsau4 (http://youtu.be/AATbMHQsau4)
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Valid point Tortoise. :-\ I have searched YouTube ALOT and none of those came up. Thanks a ton! Will watch them all. Just got back from taking it out again and it actually did run a tiny bit better but still falls on its face on the hill in neighborhood. On flat ground it seems to run fine.
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Watched videos. Excellent info! Thanks Tortoise. ;D Don't know how I missed them in my searches. Must have been the search criteria I used. Am a total rookie so innocent ignorance I'm hoping. Will include Ability 50 in search criteria and see what else I can find. Probably still take it to shop tomorrow to let them replace the parts. Don't own an impact gun/sockets and my son needs to get going on it ASAP. Assume shop will know what size jet to increase to after removing that resonator restrictor washer. Video didn't say and neither did the guy where I first saw it. Thanks again for the videos! ;)
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I think the shop is the best option for you, particularly because you do not know the history of the scooter. It is probably better to have them diagnose and repair the problem rather than throwing parts at it. (I have LOTS of experience doing that!) I am sorry I could not be of more help. The internet has its limits. Please let us know if you find out what the problem was so we can all learn from you. :)
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Agree. Will post fix as soon as I get it back. Thanks again. :)
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dwbailey what speed are you presently getting on flat surface? can you mount a GPS and get a speed reading I see your speedometer is not working.
Smooth boss if yours is presently shouldered is essential.
I'd recommend the Malossi Purple contra spring to increase hill climbing speed.
7 gm Dr Pully Sliders would be a good start.
Make sure air in tires is to specs. I put mine a little bit over.
Don't want to sound judgmental but are you a big person (weight on these 49cc matters a lot)? My tool kit alone loses me 1-2 MPH.
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Thanks for reply Chris! Didn't try gps. Fairly primitive on how to do that. Will Google it. Dropped it off at the shop yesterday so will have to wait til I get it back later in the week.
I weigh 190 so am sure that has a lot to do with it. My son who will be riding it is probably 170ish.
So the 1500 rpm yellow spring would not be the one? The guy at the shop said his mechanic would install what I suggested and see what that did but to not expect much increase in speed. Told him not looking so much for speed but pull up hills. 5mph in a 35/45 speed limit on a hill would get him run over I'm guessing. :-\
Will call shop this morning and bounce your suggestions off the mechanic and see how he reacts. Thanks again for some more direction. :D
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Don't throw parts at it DW. Once the mechanic diagnoses the problem, replace what is needed to fix the issue. I know others may disagree, but I highly recommend replacing with only genuine Kymco OEM parts. The published load limit for that scooter is 330 lbs. per the owners manual, so it should have no problem pulling 200 lbs. I have included a link below in case you dont have one;
http://www.kymcousa.com/owners/onroad/Super8.pdf (http://www.kymcousa.com/owners/onroad/Super8.pdf)
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Thank you sir for the link and recommendation to not just throw parts at it. Can totally appreciate that. I actually had found that manual but it must be for a 2014 model and mine is a 15. I have the little electronic speedo. Can't find one for a 2015 model. Thanks again for the feedback! ;)
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Don't throw parts at it DW. Once the mechanic diagnoses the problem, replace what is needed to fix the issue. I know others may disagree, but I highly recommend replacing with only genuine Kymco OEM parts. The published load limit for that scooter is 330 lbs. per the owners manual, so it should have no problem pulling 200 lbs. I have included a link below in case you dont have one;
http://www.kymcousa.com/owners/onroad/Super8.pdf (http://www.kymcousa.com/owners/onroad/Super8.pdf)
If we dont know what speed you are getting on the flats, we dont know if you bike is de-restricted so we dont know where to start with suggestions.
Are you getting good de-restricted speed on the flats and just real lousy hill performance ?
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Didn't think about using a GPS to determine speed. It seems to run fine on flat ground. Just bogs down on uphill and creeps. As soon as it crests hill it accelerates and runs fine.
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If it was my scooter I'd want a compression test.
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So got it back from the shop. Good news and not sure news.
So he replaced the big spring with a 1500rpm one and said that didn't do anything positive and felt all along it should have been a 1000 rpm one so he changed it to that. Changed rollers to 3.5g rollers. Changed the variator boss to a smooth one. Adjusted the valves. Removed the restriction washer from the intake tube. Said compression is fine. That's all he did.
Results: A fair amount faster on flat ground. ;D Took it out on open road with my GPS and it got up to 40 best I could tell so that'll help when traveling in a 45 mph zone as long as a cop doesn't catch it in a radar. 32 mph is NC limit without a license. I can tell it maintains its speed better uphill but still seems to slow to 15-20 mph which obviously beats 5-10 mph before I took it in. Maybe that's to be expected being that I weigh 190 lbs. Son weighs 165-170 so that ought to help some. It for sure is better though climbing a hill than before.
The not so sure news is that the throttle is not smoothly responsive. If I open it fully it doesn't bog down but doesn't max out like I expected it would. ??? Sorta gotta close the throttle a bit to get it to keep accelerating and then not see much difference in wide open throttle if that makes sense. Was expecting the throttle to gradually increase the speed as I gradually open it on flat ground but that doesn't seem to be the case. Mechanic advised to not mess with the jets or that I'd be back in there. I recall reading somewhere where the main jet doesn't actually kick in until the last 1/4 or so of the throttle and that's where I feel like its limited. Not sure what to do about that unless that's just a characteristic of a 49cc unrestricted scooter. I assume I've unrestricted it to the extent it can be. He said a big bore kit would be next if what he did didn't provide the result I was expecting.
Like I say, it does way better on flat ground and a fair amount better on a hill. Just wondering about the lack of smooth throttle response as I slowly open it up. Comments/suggestion? Thanks guys for your advice/direction so far as I try and figure this out. ;) Will post on general discussion side too and see if any ideas from over there.
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Well I updated my profile and you can see what I did trying to derestrict it. Still runs like crap up hill. Better but chugs bigtime until it gets back to flat ground then takes off. Any suggestions? :-\
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So got it back from the shop. Good news and not sure news.
So he replaced the big spring with a 1500rpm one and said that didn't do anything positive and felt all along it should have been a 1000 rpm one so he changed it to that. Changed rollers to 3.5g rollers. Changed the variator boss to a smooth one. Adjusted the valves. Removed the restriction washer from the intake tube. Said compression is fine. That's all he did.
Results: A fair amount faster on flat ground. ;D Took it out on open road with my GPS and it got up to 40 best I could tell so that'll help when traveling in a 45 mph zone as long as a cop doesn't catch it in a radar. 32 mph is NC limit without a license. I can tell it maintains its speed better uphill but still seems to slow to 15-20 mph which obviously beats 5-10 mph before I took it in. Maybe that's to be expected being that I weigh 190 lbs. Son weighs 165-170 so that ought to help some. It for sure is better though climbing a hill than before.
The not so sure news is that the throttle is not smoothly responsive. If I open it fully it doesn't bog down but doesn't max out like I expected it would. ??? Sorta gotta close the throttle a bit to get it to keep accelerating and then not see much difference in wide open throttle if that makes sense. Was expecting the throttle to gradually increase the speed as I gradually open it on flat ground but that doesn't seem to be the case. Mechanic advised to not mess with the jets or that I'd be back in there. I recall reading somewhere where the main jet doesn't actually kick in until the last 1/4 or so of the throttle and that's where I feel like its limited. Not sure what to do about that unless that's just a characteristic of a 49cc unrestricted scooter. I assume I've unrestricted it to the extent it can be. He said a big bore kit would be next if what he did didn't provide the result I was expecting.
Like I say, it does way better on flat ground and a fair amount better on a hill. Just wondering about the lack of smooth throttle response as I slowly open it up. Comments/suggestion? Thanks guys for your advice/direction so far as I try and figure this out. ;) Will post on general discussion side too and see if any ideas from over there.
Because he removed the restriction on the intake, you must increase the jet size at least a little. More air needs more fuel. That's probably why it's not acting up on full throttle.
Regarding the hills, that's probably all the better it's going to go uphill with 190 pounds on it. It will be a little better with a lighter rider on it. My wife has a 50cc Honda and it moves right up the hills with her 135 pounds but slows down quite a bit with my 180.
Even my People 50 with a race pipe slows down quite a bit on hills and it has a lot more power. These little engines just don't make much torque.
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Thanks for the insight. I messed up on my original comments when I said I had 3.5g rollers installed. Actually had 6.5g ones installed.j
I mentioned the going a bit larger on the jet after removing that restrictor washer and his immediate response was no need. Will bring it up again tomorrow when I take it back. He also said no need to change clutch springs. Have read some threads that some have suggested changing those, too. Hoping he can get it figured out. Son is really struggling on hills with it but will tell him there is only so much you can get out of it. Think he would gladly sacrifice some top end speed for more climbing speed. It'll hit around 40 now on flat ground. Thanks again.
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Got it back from shop. Pilot jet was clogged and air/fuel mixture needed tweaking. Runs a lot better. Guess am gonna have to accept its just not gonna climb a hill very good unless I tweak the rollers from 6.5g to maybe 6.0?
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dwbailey did you replace the CDI or remove the Purple wire to remove the rev limiter?
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dwbailey did you replace the CDI or remove the Purple wire to remove the rev limiter?
I actually JUST posted a thread asking about a red wire that was clipped in the battery box coming out of a brick (probably the CDI I'm thinking). The wire has a light purple line on it. Would that be the purple wire you meant? Sorry for late reply. Just now getting back into the forum and didn't get a notice that a reply was posted. Don't know if the CDI has been replaced or not. Thanks for the reply.
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It just seems to me you are expecting too much from a 50cc scooter.
There really is no substitute for displacement.
redk
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It just seems to me you are expecting too much from a 50cc scooter.
There really is no substitute for displacement.
redk
Yea, I've about resigned myself to all its gonna give. Just received the digital speedo that I'm having to replace and when I took the battery out of the scooter to charge it since its been sitting for a few months, I noticed that red wire with electrical tape on the end of the 2 coming out and wondered what or why whoever cut it cut it. Don't have a wiring diagram so can't trace it.