KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: DMblues01 on August 08, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
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So, awhile back, my light control module messed up and had to be replaced. Covered under warranty, NO cost to me.
Lights have worked fine since, until a couple days ago.
While pulling up to a stop light, I noticed my reflection in the truck ahead of me and guess what? NO HEADLIGHTS AGAIN!!
When I stopped, the dim lights came on, but went out when I started moving again.
I rode to the dealership, and was surprised when they took it in to look at it immediately.
15 minutes later, they had it out, and everything was working again.
When I asked what the problem was, their "helpful" answer was, "NO CLUE". :o WTF?!?!
The LCM was fine, and they checked all the wire connections. When they put it back together, it all worked!
Lights were fine again for the last couple days, until this morning when I got off work. On the way home, NO HEADLIGHTS AGAIN!!! >:(
Got home and parked with the engine idling, and I cycled the high beam switch a few times. I noticed a small flicker after a few switches back and forth, and when I spun the front wheel, the lights worked again. ???
And they worked fine the rest of the morning while I ran some errands.
So I'm wondering, could my issue simply be a bit of corrosion in the high beam switch tripping the lights out? I do ride every day, even when it's raining, so the scoot does get wet on a regular basis. If anyone has any insight on this, I would appreciate any input. Because, frankly, my local dealer is proving to be no help!
I just want to be able to fully trust that my lights are going to work, and not fail when I need them!
Duke- 8)
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Pimpy did a direct wiring mod thats held up well for him using the European parking light slots I believe for running lights. I'd like to know a bit more about how to do that mod myself as it sounds pretty good.
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I have had this same problem three times and it has only happened if it has been raining.....not sure if the humidity or anything has something to do with it
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Yeah, mine have been fine since the last time, but it hasn't been raining this week.
I guess I'll know when it rains this weekend and I have to go to work.
I'm thinking that the switch for the high beams just isn't sealed from the elements well enough.
If it messes up again during the next batch of bad weather, I may just take it apart and see if I can waterproof the switch better and see what happens.
The scoot is my only vehicle now, so it needs to function in all conditions.
If the lights act up when I get off work, it's morning so the sun is up and I can at least make the 5 minute ride home. But when I leave for work at 9 pm, I kinda need to know my headlights are going to work!!
Duke- 8)
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Well, the headlights worked fine all weekend while it was raining, and now today when it's dry they crapped out again!! >:(
Dealer is closed on Mondays, so I'm headed up there tomorrow morning when they first open up! I'm really sick of this crap!!!
I called Kymco USA customer support and left a message with them about the problem. Hopefully there's a simple cause to the issue, because I'm Pissed at this point!!!
This will be the third time it's gone to the dealer for the same problem, so if it's not corrected permanently this time, they are not going to like me because I'll have to call and talk to the State's Attorney's office, and the BBB, and report the problem to them!
Duke- >:(
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These headlights have a mind of their own. When it happens to me, I simply pull over, turn the scoot off, turn it back on, and then they work. That has worked for me 5/5 times. They have cracked out more than once during the same ride but turning it off and on seems to do the trick for me.
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So what is the proper procedure to directly wire these lights ?
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So what is the proper procedure to directly wire these lights ?
I'm not 100% sure.
Someone posted about it on here somewhere, but I can't remember where.
That may be my last ditch course of action if they can't fix it right. :-\
I still think that auto-dim set up is stupid to begin with. I think everything would work 100 times better with normal headlight wiring, and no light control module.
I love the way my Super 8 runs and I love riding it, but this repeating issues with the lights are really souring my opinion of Kymco in general. I may end up following Stig's lead, and jumping brands before long!
Duke- 8)
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When you go to the dealer tell them to have kymco overnight the necessary parts to the dealer to fix this serious safety issue. You are right about planning on going to the bbb and ag offices. My threat to go to the ag office on my front cover issue was the only thing that got the ball rolling in my case. Sucks that this can't be fixed right, esp. since its your only transportation.
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I got a call back from KymcoUSA already!
The technical rep said that since it seems to be happening at random points, that it's probably a wonky relay or switch, or possibly a short that only hits from time to time.
So the dealer will have to test all the wires and find the point of fault.
However, now the lights are working perfect again!! WTF?!?! :o
So, if they are working in the morning, the shop won't be able to track the problem anyway!
So I guess I will stop by there tomorrow and just make an appointment for next week, when I'm on vacation from work, so they can keep it for a couple days to get it to act up.
These headlights have a mind of their own.
Truer words have never been said!
Duke- 8)
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lol DMblues. It really is the truth
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How to direct wire and bypass the light control box. If the key is on the lights are on. Stays bright no matter what RPMs you are turning. No dim lights when coasting down a big hill.
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So the green and red also hang loose along with that brown pin connector ?
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How to direct wire and bypass the light control box. If the key is on the lights are on. Stays bright no matter what RPMs you are turning. No dim lights when coasting down a big hill.
I don't know if that will work on my 2012. My LCM has a different looking plug ( all one piece). Plus, my lights don't switch up to full power with the engine rpms, they switch up when the front wheel starts spinning. I guess they're connected to the speedo somehow.
If someone knows if this will work on mine, let me know.
Duke- 8)
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So, after speaking with the Kymcousa rep, and being told that it's probably a bad connection somewhere, I spent a couple hours pulling off plastic and checking and cleaning ALL the wire hookups.
To my surprise, I found moisture in some of them, which appeared to be bridging between some of the wires.
So I blew them all out with a can of compressed air to dry them out. Then I used a little Electronic cleaner to clean any dirt, and blew them all out again. I also check the connections of the fuses, and found one that seemed a little looser than the others, so I squeezed the clip a bit so the fuse fit more solid.
I put it all together, and haven't had an issue with the headlights for the last 3 days, including riding to work in rain last night.
Maybe that's just something I need to add to the normal maintenance along with the oil change and checking the air filter. I'll just start blowing the wire connections out with air for time to time, just to keep the connections clean, and see if the hiccup comes back or not.
Duke- 8)
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Well, it's been about a week and a half since cleaning all the wire connections, and blowing moisture out of a couple of them.
So far, I haven't had a single repeat of the headlight issue. And I've had to ride in rain several days since. I guess from now on, I'll just check the wires whenever I do my oil changes, just to keep them clean and dried out.
So if any other Super 8 owners are having intermittent issues with the headlight, make sure there's no moisture in the connectors.
Duke- 8)
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Well, it's been about a week and a half since cleaning all the wire connections, and blowing moisture out of a couple of them.
So far, I haven't had a single repeat of the headlight issue. And I've had to ride in rain several days since. I guess from now on, I'll just check the wires whenever I do my oil changes, just to keep them clean and dried out.
So if any other Super 8 owners are having intermittent issues with the headlight, make sure there's no moisture in the connectors.
Duke- 8)
Over 2 weeks since cleaning all the connectors, and the lights still work perfect!
Amazing that something so simple can be the root of such a potentially dangerous headache.
I'm actually sort of shocked that a vehicle designed for road use would use electrical connectors that don't do a better job of sealing out moisture and dirt.
I'm just glad to have seemingly solved the issue.
A mechanic friend of mine suggested using a little dielectric grease on the contacts in the connectors to help keep dirt and moisture from fowling them again. Anyone know if that might be a good idea, or would some simple electrical tape around the connectors be enough to keep them dry?
Duke- 8)
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Well, after three weeks, we got a good rain storm and the headlights fritzed again.
Had to pull over several times, while returning home, to shut the scoot off and restart to reset the lights. Turned a normally 15-20 minute ride into a 35 minute ride.
At home, I decided to test Pimpy's LCM bypass suggestion. I used a couple of light gauge jumper wires, that I use when wiring on of my guitars, just to see if it worked. And it does!! No auto dim, and the scoot starts and run perfect!
So in the morning, I'm running to the store to get some proper size wires and small plug ends, and run the bypass properly.
Thank you Pimpy1 for posting the photo of how to do the bypass. I should have done that the first day I bought the scooter! I might have avoided a lot of frustration and cursing!
How to direct wire and bypass the light control box. If the key is on the lights are on. Stays bright no matter what RPMs you are turning. No dim lights when coasting down a big hill.
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So the green, red and brown are just left hanging.
My light are dim but I dont see any fluctuation with my scooter at high or low idle but haven't driven at night yet only at dusk.
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This LCM <correction> is it's sole purpose is to drop voltage to the lighting, or is there more too it? Could it's only purpose is to add longevity to the bulbs? Anyone have an answer or clue? Otherwise, the LCM seems pointless.
OTOH, only advantage I can see with the lights dimming at idle / low rpm, is when riding during the day with the brights on, then pull up behind a car at a light or stop, the brights are less blinding <shrug>
In any regard, thanks for posting the bypass tip. It sure will come in handy if I end up with the same issue, or get fed-up of the lights dimming.
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The real thing the control does is protect the stator/rectifier. When sitting at a stop light, and running a blinker w/ the headlight on most bikes will have a hard time keeping up w/ the demand, and heat will develop in the stator/rectifier. (idling bike).
This is never really an issue if you keep the rpms up, and the stator charging.
Jumping out the control box is a non issue. That box was/is just an under educated engineers vision of a solution to a problem all bikes have The best solution is to bypass it, and install LED blinkers w/ an electronic flasher relay.
That will fix everything for 15-20 bucks. You can convert the entire bike to LED's for under 30 bucks.
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The real thing the control does is protect the stator/rectifier. When sitting at a stop light, and running a blinker w/ the headlight on most bikes will have a hard time keeping up w/ the demand, and heat will develop in the stator/rectifier. (idling bike).
This is never really an issue if you keep the rpms up, and the stator charging.
Jumping out the control box is a non issue. That box was/is just an under educated engineers vision of a solution to a problem all bikes have The best solution is to bypass it, and install LED blinkers w/ an electronic flasher relay.
That will fix everything for 15-20 bucks. You can convert the entire bike to LED's for under 30 bucks.
Thanks for the insight!
Forgive me for my laziness, is there a DIY on converting to LED lighting?
This maybe something I may eventually do. Additionally, I have thoughts of removing the exterior turn signal lighting and integrating them within the front cowl and rear tail lamp assembly.
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I have relocated the lights on several scooters. It's all the same deal.
Pull one of each bulb, and order the direct replacements or find them at any local auto parts place.
The blinkers work on a capacitor/relay on the current set up. You have to swap the flasher relay for an electronic flasher made for led's
It's a simple swap behind the cowl. Find your flasher by turning on the blinkers, and see if it is a 2 or 3 wire unit. Then just buy the new one, and swap it out.
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The real thing the control does is protect the stator/rectifier. When sitting at a stop light, and running a blinker w/ the headlight on most bikes will have a hard time keeping up w/ the demand, and heat will develop in the stator/rectifier. (idling bike).
This is never really an issue if you keep the rpms up, and the stator charging.
Jumping out the control box is a non issue. That box was/is just an under educated engineers vision of a solution to a problem all bikes have The best solution is to bypass it, and install LED blinkers w/ an electronic flasher relay.
That will fix everything for 15-20 bucks. You can convert the entire bike to LED's for under 30 bucks.
Zombie's Back! All is right with the world!!! :D
I think after bypassing the stupid LCM, I'm gonna look at replacing the headlight bulbs with LEDs to reduce the power draw on the stator.
Is there a direct replacement LED headlight bulb to do this, or is it more complicated than that? I know the blinkers need an upgrade to the flasher relay.
Duke- 8)
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What's happening DM!
There is NO direct replacement LED for the headlight. I've had to buy a socket to match the LED bulb.
These are what I've been using... Under 15 bucks
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Cool. Thanx!
That will be the next project, now that the bipolar headlight situation is getting nipped in the bud!
Duke- 8)
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LED's ae one of the best things you can do.
You may never need to replace them for the life of the bike.
Speaking of Bi-polar... My wife called the other day. She just got out of jail (again), and needs a place to stay. Any suggestions???
I told her to go to hell.
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So the green, red and brown are just left hanging.
My light are dim but I dont see any fluctuation with my scooter at high or low idle but haven't driven at night yet only at dusk.
The other wires to the LCM are just sensor wires that tell it when to switch from half power to full power for the headlights. Once you jump the power wires, and bypass the LCM, the other wires serve no purpose.
I put in the jumper wires, like in Pimpy1's photo, and then I mummified the whole plug harness with electrical tape just to keep water out of it. Then I used a simple zip tie to hold it to the frame, so it doesn't flop around when riding.
I rode around for about 30 minutes today, after doing the bypass, and didn't have a single problem.
I'll let everyone know how it goes after riding to work tonight in the predicted rain storm.
Duke- 8)
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My wife called the other day. She just got out of jail (again), and needs a place to stay. Any suggestions???
Maybe Axy has a spare room! ;D
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The other wires to the LCM are just sensor wires that tell it when to switch from half power to full power for the headlights. Once you jump the power wires, and bypass the LCM, the other wires serve no purpose.
I put in the jumper wires, like in Pimpy1's photo, and then I mummified the whole plug harness with electrical tape just to keep water out of it. Then I used a simple zip tie to hold it to the frame, so it doesn't flop around when riding.
I rode around for about 30 minutes today, after doing the bypass, and didn't have a single problem.
I'll let everyone know how it goes after riding to work tonight in the predicted rain storm.
Duke- 8)
Do you have a multimeter ? Check charging voltage at idle to make sure it's over 13v or at VERY minimum no lower than static battery voltage. I'm not a fan of how kymco solved that issue, that cheaped out and made the lights dim instead of giving the bike a better stator.
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Where do I connect the multimeter to check voltage?
Let me know for sure so I can check it on my day off Monday.
So far, I haven't had a problem, but it's only been one day. I'll see how it goes after riding to work and back for the next few nights.
Duke- 8)
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DM, if its like a car, shouldn't you be able to check the voltage straight across the battery while the bike is running to determine if the voltage regulator/altenator is putting out the proper voltage ?
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Maybe Axy has a spare room! ;D
He's the one that called the cops on her the last time. I think he's done too.
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DM, if its like a car, shouldn't you be able to check the voltage straight across the battery while the bike is running to determine if the voltage regulator/altenator is putting out the proper voltage ?
It's better to check anywhere else but the battery. I usually check on one of the running lights. Reason is you don't want a false high reading from the batteries power.
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I see whats going on as is voltage to the lights and system as whole thats more of a concern than charging the battery.
Just some FYI on LED conversions, not sure its been posted but Im copying this from Ebay. And according to the Super 8 service manual schematic, a 3 wire LED flasher relay. Just looking for a source now preferably Ebay.
LED Turn Signal Bulbs - Flashing Problems?
memotronics_llc
Published by
memotronics_llc
January 28, 2013 . 19K Views . 2 Votes
When converting a vehicle for use with LED Turn Signal bulbs, it is often not enough to simply replace the regular incandescent bulbs with LED bulbs. In many cases, you will have to either replace the car's flasher module, or trick the flasher module into thinking that there are "regular" bulbs in your car...
...and here is why:
An LED bulb only consumes a very small amount of electrical current. The turn signal flasher (if it's a regular "thermal" flasher) was designed for bulbs that consume a lot of power: The power consumed by the bulb runs through the flasher and heats up a bimetal switch. When the bimetal deforms from the heat, it breaks the circuit (causing your lamp to go off), this causes the switch to cool down and go back to it's original shape (it will close the circuit again, the lights come on, the switch heats up, and the cycle begins again).
If the amount of power going though the switch is very little, not enough heat is generated in the flasher to cause the bimetal to bend. The most common symptom is that your turn signal lights simply stay on. If you run a MIX of regular and LED bulbs (say regular in the front, LED in the back), you may not notice it but if your incandescent bulb breaks, you're back to nothing-flashing.
Other symptoms are fast flasher, slow flashing or not coming on at all.
There are usually two solutions:
Install Load Resistors: these resistors basically a resistor that consumes enough power to cause the stock flasher module to kick in. Your flasher basically doesn't know that you're running LED bulbs. This is usually the more expensive solution, creates a lot more work and just generally undesirable. However, this may be what you have to do if you cannot find an LED-compatible flasher.
LED-Compatible Flasher: This will work on most cars (and the older the car, the more likely), and usually means ripping out the stock flasher and putting in an LED-compatible replacement. Sometimes you may have to flip some wires (and you can find harnesses to make that really easy). There are various different models of LED compatible flashers, and there are also different types.
Getting the right MODEL: Simple enough, the LED-compatible flasher should have the same number of prongs, pin-out and size/shape (square vs round) as your existing flasher. Sometimes, LED compatible flashers have an additional wire coming out of the top of the flasher, that just needs to be attached to the car's ground.
Getting the right TYPE: Some LED flashers will work ONLY WITH LEDs and will go up in smoke when you put incandescent bulbs (or a mix of LED and incandescent) into your lights. Those flashers should be stayed-away from. There are also SOLID STATE flashers, those don't use a relay, have an extremely long life (because they don't have any mechanical parts), are more expensive and usually do NOT make a clicking noise.
Hazard Flasher: Some cars have two flashers, one for hazard lights, another for turn signals. They may or may not be different models, but you will have to replace both.
Flasher Lookup: CEC Industries has a flasher replacement guide (Google: CEC Flasher Guide), you enter the year, make and model of your car, and it will tell you which flasher fits. The flashers it shows may NOT be LED compatible, but you can enter the model numbers of the recommended flasher in their search, and it will tell you if it's LED compatible. If the recommended flasher is NOT LED-compatible, try the search again, adding the letter L or the letters RL. If that still doesn't bring up a result, and if your existing flasher is two-prong, you could try the generic round 2-prong LED compatible flasher, which is the EF32RL. If your flasher is 3-prong (and one of the prongs is the pilot light in your dash), then you could try the generic 3-prong variant, aka EF33RL
A number of other LED flashers is available from Memotronics here on ebay, click here for a list
We also carry mounting brackets for the flashers we sell, and a 2 prong and 3 prong harness for remote-mounting (or for swapping leads if the prongs aren't in the correct position).
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The ELFR-1 is a highly recommended flasher relay but is 2 pin, what can someone recommend that is 3 pin. I see many 3 pin out there but they dont come with the wiring harness. If I can get the harness then I can go to any parts store to get the flasher relay as its quite standard.
I think a EFL-3 http://www.vleds.com/3-pin-electronic-led-flasher-blinker-fix-1157-3157-7443.html (http://www.vleds.com/3-pin-electronic-led-flasher-blinker-fix-1157-3157-7443.html) I'm looking for a variation of ot now but can also pull the spade connectors out of the plug if needed.
1- pin to battery
1 - pin to ground
1-pin to lights
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I bought a Molex kit a few years ago for making all my own connectors.
The kit is expensive but you can also buy individual parts to make what you need
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sumitomo-HM-090-Waterproof-Connector-Kit-High-Quality-with-Removal-Tool-/221387469325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338bb8b20d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sumitomo-HM-090-Waterproof-Connector-Kit-High-Quality-with-Removal-Tool-/221387469325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338bb8b20d)
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Do you have a multimeter ? Check charging voltage at idle to make sure it's over 13v or at VERY minimum no lower than static battery voltage. I'm not a fan of how kymco solved that issue, that cheaped out and made the lights dim instead of giving the bike a better stator.
I got out the old multimeter this morning, to check the charging with the LCM bypassed.
Checked the battery first, with the scoot off. It read 12.68 volts. (after sitting for about 24 hours in 50 degree temps)
With the scoot warmed up and idling, the system reads 14.48 volts.
I don't have much experience with the electrical systems on vehicles, so I'm just guessing that since it's higher than the minimum you stated, I am in OK shape so far?
Duke- 8)
EDIT: After running some errands this morning, I re-tested the battery just after parking it. This time it read 12.98 volts, which is closer to the 13.1 that the service manual on cyclepedia states as fully charged. so even on short 5-10 minute hops, it IS still producing enough to charge the battery without the auto-dim set up. ;D
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Bully for you. Glad to hear it.
Those numbers sound exactly right.
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Bully for you. Glad to hear it.
Those numbers sound exactly right.
Cool! Thanks to all who have been helping me out with the shared info on this.
Now I'll get started with the things I need to order for starting the LED swap to save some extra draw on the system.
Duke- 8)