KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Agility 125 => Topic started by: csor.zola on May 16, 2014, 08:03:53 AM
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Hi everyone,
I have got a kymco 125 agility. I took off the carburetor to clean it and to inspect it more closely because at the moment it won't start. It fires up for a second couple of times but then nothing. I bought it like this yesterday. I checked the fuel system and the carburetor has plenty petrol. I took out the spark plug and it works perfectly and was fully wet with petrol. (Maybe too much) So, I took off the whole carb give a good clean. But surprisingly it was not bad at all. (The scooter has only 5000 km and 1 year old). I set the pilot screw, 2 and half turn. I don't know the position of idle screw. I gonna play with it. Or anyone knows?
Now I took off the auto bystarter and gonna check its resistance. The manual says it should be under 10ohm.
I checked the air filter. Nothing special. It is a bit wet of petrol. But I think it's normal.
BUT....
I found something on the carb. It is a some sort of electric part close to the engine site connected to the butterfly valves next to the bystarter and in front of the pilot screw. I have tried to attach a picture of it but Itoo large. Does anyone know what is this and how to test it if it works? Could it be my problem?
If the bystarter will be fine I going to check the valve clearance.
Or Any advice what I can check?
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I found something on the carb. It is a some sort of electric part close to the engine site connected to the butterfly valves next to the bystarter and in front of the pilot screw.
TPS (http://www.enmoto.com/enmotoonline/downloads/Specifications/Kymco/Reparaturanleitung%20Kymco/Agility_City_125/AGILITY125-05.pdf) (Throttle Position Sensor) . . similar wiring diagram (http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/bashan_2010/DIAGRAMS/a159b591-1.png)
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Thanks.
Been looking around I have seen that the most gy6 carb does not have that tps installed. Interesting....
Anyway
I measured the resistance of the by starter 13-14 ohm. According to the manual it should be changed. But the funny thing is that easier to buy a whole carburetor than the bystarter only.
But luckily I managed to start the engine after all. The main problem was the spark plug. It did not give a strong spark and when I checked it properly I saw that spark is reddish and is not between that two thing. So, I changed it and woala...starts. But not easily. I have to pull the throttle to get the engine started. But at least it starts.
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Definitely check valve clearance and cylinder compression! If no joy, there may be an intermittent spark issue. Check stator, pulser, and ignition coil Ohms. If still no joy, the DC-CDI may be the gremlin.
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I am still looking for a carb with tps but I have not seen any. Or am I blind?
They have only a brass cap inplace of the sensor. Is my one special or just that sensor needs to be transferred? Or any gy6 carb will do for me?
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Why would there be a TPS on a carb? TPS is for fuel injected systems.
Karl
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Well...ask who made my bike. Or someone told me incorrectly. But if you read my first post I ask a question about some electric part on my carb. I did not know what is that and I was told that is the tps.
But I am quite sure that is a tps. And since then I am looking for a same carb like mine unsuccessfully.
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I have a question. Most of the gy6 carb has a brass cap next to the auto choke where my tps or I do not know how to call it is. Is that cap removable?? Can I put my tps in place of it?
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No, czor, it was tortise that suggested it was a TPS. Carbs seem to have the auto bystarter and fuel injection seem to have the TPS and ISC(idle speed control). There is no reason to mix them. I do NOT know what the electrical thingy is on your carb near the bystarter. A picture run thru Photobucket would help. A service manual would help also: MAYBE ONE OF THE FORUM GANG HAS A COPY ON HIS COMPUTER HE COULD SHARE WITH YOU. HINT HINT!
Karl
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Re-size the picture with Paint. Right click the image, and you will see Edit. Click that, and paint will open with an option to Re-size on the top left.
Since you have to crack the throttle that tells me you are indeed rich. You can remove the Bystart, and see if it moves the pin when you turn on the key. It tales about 90 seconds for the pin to extend about 4mm. If it does not extend that is the entire issue.
Automatic Enricher Operation (10x Speed) : Choke Bypass Bystarter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qRVOkfdaY#ws)
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Here we come....so, I have already taken off the auto choke. But next to it between my two fingers there is an electric device. I plaged the cable out. Once I took it off from the carb to see what it is and it connected to the butterfly shaft. Inside it has a spring. You can't see it but you can feel it as you turn it. Only one screw hold it. It can't be seen from this angle but the screw has some kind of groove to move in. So you can turn the whole device until a curtain point.
I was thinking maybe I put it back incorrectly that is why hard to start .
So...what do you think? What is this. I think is the tps
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That is a throttle position sensor, and it does require an EXACT setting. You need to locate the service manual to find the procedure. There is also a procedure that calibrates the sensor/computer once it is adjusted correctly.
kymco downtown 300i reset (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZOEvssXkOU#)
You need to find the voltage setting first. It is usually 0.5 volts out on most engines but I am not sure for the 125 Kymco
KTM Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Adjustment Made Easy - Special Tool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-EDdAL4Cag#ws)
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Bloody hell...It does not sound good. So, if I turn this thing it will change the voltage?
And why I can't find same carb at all? What if I just replace it with a normal gy6 carb?
And anyway....why you two are not sleeping yet?
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I have checked the manual that I got. Its headlight says agility 125 but picture of the carb in it not the same with mine. It does not have the tps and the whole book does not mention it at all. I am having a bit difficulty. If you find something about the exact voltage please let me know.
Thanks in advance
Zol
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And one more question. What is the purpose of this tps? Why mine has it and others does not
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Throttle position sensor. It tells the computer exactly where the throttle is, and how much fuel to supply and or what the Ignition timing is supposed to be. I would suggest you use a DVM, and set the initial voltage to .5 volts. See how that goes.
Just buy the nw choke if the carb is good.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xgy6+auto+choke&_nkw=gy6+auto+choke&_sacat=0&_from=R40 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xgy6+auto+choke&_nkw=gy6+auto+choke&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
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OK. Thanks. I will do it by middle of the week.
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Zomb, Czor, That picture shows it IS a TPS. Czor's description of an unseen spring inside is just like the TPS found on my old Yager and on the DT300i. I am confused as to WHY there would be such on a CARBURETTOR! Why would there even be a computer on a carb machine? I guess I gotta a lot to learn. Setting this thing seems to be hit and miss since most of the service manual settings seem to be in error like on the DT300i. I had to find the "happy medium" on low and high resistance or voltage in the DT since setting to "spec" rendered the engine inoperable.
Karl
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OK, I found the answer: Thanks to zgr7 try this for the Dink 125 which looks very similar to the Agility 125. http://www.enmoto.com/enmotoonline/downloads/Specifications/Kymco/Reparituranleitung%20Kymco/ (http://www.enmoto.com/enmotoonline/downloads/Specifications/Kymco/Reparituranleitung%20Kymco/)
This is a pdf which downloads/populates quite slowly
Karl
That did not work: Do a search for "links to service manuals" author "zgr7" and find the link above; THAT works.
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Dear Karl,
Somehow that link does not work. It says not found. If it is not too big burden for you could you send it to my email, please. csor.zola@gmail.com
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The link I posted does NOT work. However, if you do the search like I said go to page 7 and the last post by zgr7 and hit his link which reads the same it will work. Since both are the same it makes no sense. But then a TPS on a carb made no sense, either. The TPS is connected to the CDI according to the wiring diagram for the Dink 125 so it has some function, what I have no idea.
Karl
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I am sorry Karl. I can't find it the way you said. Give me please the link of the page where the link is for the manual.
Anyway. I have posted a question here about the tps. Maybe someone knows how to adjust
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From what I gather the TPS only affects the Ign. Timing. Yet they call it a Fuel Injected bike?
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I just now followed my own advice and it did not work! I did find what did work and for the Agility 125. Go to the "search" feature on this forum. Type in "sevice manuals" for subject. Put in "zgr7" for author. When the page shows click on the highlighted subject line which should be something about service manuals. zgr7 has a link that shows http://www.enmoto.com (http://www.enmoto.com) or something like that. This puts you on a page for just about anything that Kymco ever made. Go to Agility 125 which will show one line for each chapter of the 125 service manual. Click on the one ending in "5" and that is the fuel system. That looks like it tells you almost everything about your fuel system. I would post you directly if I were smarter!
Zombie: it ain't touted as a fuel injected engine but the carb does have a TPS that is hooked to the CDI. Go figure.
Karl
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Thanks Karl,
I have found it but total different way. I got the agility city 125 manual which contains the setting of the tps but....only how to check. Messaure its resistance. I went on dink125 but it does not mention the tps settings
I will check around more a bit. But if you know something let me know please
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Every injected engine I have worked on uses 0.50 VDC as a base setting. That's a good place to start.
You could try increasing in 0.05 steps to find the "sweet spot".
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Reading the A125 service manual it does say the TPS should read 5k ohms at full throttle opening. Maybe that is the setting.
By the way, your Kymco dealer won't know, either!
Karl
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I sent an email to kymco USA about this and got this asnwer back:
"The TPS on non fuel injected units is not a critical device. However it does help feed information to the CDI a more detailed adjustment of the timing curve. It is not recommended that these be removed. If it must be removed it should be marked and placed back as close to possible as the original position. If this is not done, we have no way to calibrate this outside of the factory."
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That is good info! I am surprised that Kymco answered you in this lifetime! Pretty much it is set and as long as you get it back close to what it was you should be good. Now, does your scoot still not start?
Karl
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Well Karl...this scooter drive me nuts. It sometimes starts with one kick. But after it seems that it changes its mind and does not want to start. For example: today morning one kick. Sorry two...and started. Turned it off and try it again, one kick and the engine was runing. On the very same afternoon i have been tarying hard I just could not start it again not even to fire it up. A bit later i went back and couple of attempt after i managed to start it with full throttle. I took it for a test drive....beautiful. Smooth and fast. I just don't understand.
I gonna swap the whole carb from my mate scooter to see if this is the problem. Today I will do the valve clearance but I got a problem with that. I opened a different topic. Because I can't see the index mark on the crankcase. Somebody adviced me to set up cam sproket lining up its holes but I am not sure if it's going to be spot on. But I need some advice what else can i check? Everything seems to be correct. I got spark so it is not the ignition. And when my sccooter starts it runs like a dream. I checked everything from the airfilter to the carb. But today I will go a bit further. And see
Do you have any idea
Just to let you know. This scooter was accident damage. I bought as a project. It had an impact on the right side. I think a car hit it.
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One more thing. I was trying to adjust the tps but on my scooter it is impossible to get that 5V as you said. I can move it between 4.40 to 4.00V if I pull the throttle this number getting less. So, I could not do much. I left it in the middle position.
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4.4 - 4.0 sounds odd. In the middle sounds like a good choice given the odds.
Perhaps its a resistance reading that is needed because that would be much more accurate.
My bets on the valves.
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I have done the valve clearence. It was a bit extended. One was 0.20 mm the other 0.23 mm. I set it up 0.12 after that I gave a try. First attempt...started..try again...started. I was quite happy with lots of hope. Went down later to try again....I was nearly crying. Nothing!!!!! Does not even fired up. Bloody hell. What is wrong this scooter? Why does not want to start constantly?? I noticed it starts in the morning until 12. After maybe too tired or too busy to start. Any idea???
I will check the tps resistance but I am pretty sure that is not the source of my problem.
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When it doesn't start check it for spark. The electrical systems on these bikes are marginal at best, and intermittent firing issues are very common.
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Zombie you were right. I should've found it eralier. I am too embarrassed to tell you what was the problem......the spark plug. But this was the second one. I got it from my friend and when I tried with that was good. And when I was checking the spark plug I did not check it close enough. The spark was strong, blue and making a clicking noise but....not exactly between that two "thing". And yeah....sorted. One week headache has gone. Thank you guys
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Hopefully that got it. If you have further issues w/ spark post up. CDI's, and Stators go bad fairly often.