KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: CROSSBOLT on May 10, 2013, 04:20:22 PM
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I know I will start a hailstorm with this but here goes anyway: I have tried several "Anti-Ethanol" products in a small car with no apparent effect. How 'bout adding up to 10% diesel to the unleaded fuel that has up to 10% Ethanol in it? I have read on the general internet responses ALL over the place. What do youse guys think? Anybody tried it?
Karl
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What kind of anti-ethanol effects are you looking for in a small car? Does it not run well on E10? What does a successful anti-ethanol product do for you?
I know my idea of anti-ethanol treatment stops ethanol from coming out of solution so my carb bikes don't get gummed up in the Spring. But I don't know from your request if that's the kind of effect you may be looking for. :)
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Diesel has virtually no octane value. You could ruin your engine extremely fast. But then don't blame Ethanol!
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Diesel is basically kerosene, a good solvent but won't do much to ethanol.
Most products are very vague about excatly what they do other than drain
your wallet. The best solution so far is to mix water into it and drain off the
resulting water/alcohol mix. I wish the Feds had given us an option to buy
ethanol free fuel!
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What problems are you having with e 10?
I boat and in a water environment it can be a major problem, if you’re in a humid climate and leave the car sitting for some time try a product like Sta-Bil or add an fuel water separator to your fuel line.
As for the damage that E-10 can do to some components, fiberglass or plastic tanks fuel lines etc, I have no good answer for you other than to change out the parts affected.
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Live with it... yes 08, ethanol is a problem in boats/water crafts.... ethanol affects those weak plastic rubber parts especially old model vehicles... I bought a brand new car last 2006 ... used fuel with 10% ethanol ever since with no problems...
Diesel in gasoline? not a good idea.... diesel doesn't ignite with a spark... heat and very, very, very high compression detonates diesel fuel...
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Looking to reverse the poor mileage resulting from 10% Ethanol. That stuff raises the effective octane rating but more importantly, I think, dilutes the BTU content.
Karl
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Diesel not only lowers octane rating, but destroys it.
And you would need fuel ignition, diesel can't be gasificated.
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I also think the only way to evaluate this "bright idea" is to test it. The API way would be a test engine like they use in the petroleum labs. The other way would be to try it in a road machine like a car or scooter. I am reluctant to do this in the scoot since they seem to be stressed pretty high and I do not want to venture somewhere I would not like to be like a broken engine or crapped out on a trip. However, adding ethanol seems to have a downside and the government had no second thoughts to forcing me to do it. I in the past added "alcohol" to fuel to absorb water. Many old timers added diesel and Marvel Mystery Oil to gas for various reasons, most unprovable. I have done some calculations thanks to Wikipedia. Diesel has an octane rating (RON) of 15-25. Gas is 91-92 RON and 82-83 MON for a combined 86.5-87.5 R+M/2. Ethanol is 108.6 RON and 89.7 MON for a 99.15 R+M/2. High heat value for Gasoline, Diesel and Ethanol is 20000, 19300 and 12000 BTU/lb respectively. Computations, unverified, show that 90% 87 gas and 10% Ethanol equals 88.2 R+M/2 octane with an equivalent high heat value of 19.2k BTU/lb. Adding 10% Diesel to 10% Ethanol diluted gas would give 81.5 equivalent octane and only 19.13k BTU/lb heat. Octane too low and heat not quite back to straight gas nor 10% ethanol. For this logic I see no reason to try it.
Karl
PS: My head hurts......
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http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html (http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html)
Shows stations in your area that sell ethenol free gas.
So far I have found three in my area.
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http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html (http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html)
Shows stations in your area that sell ethenol free gas.
So far I have found three in my area.
That site looks like a useful resource, but for whatever reason, it contains no information about stations in Toronto (the largest city in Canada).
For those Canadians that don't know, Shell carries 3 grades of gas: 87-, 89- and 91-octane, which they advertize as containing 10%, 5% and zero % ethanol, respectively. I understand that Shell supplies gas to several "non oil company" outlets, such as Canadian Tire; so, it's at least possible to avoid ethanol in Canada.
If you're an anal-retentive type like me, this only leaves you with the problem of whatever's left in the hose from the last guy that used the pump, and it's probably 10%; don't laugh, in terms of the typically-small volume of scooter gas tanks, it could be a significant proportion. I deal with this by taking a small 5-liter can (that fits under the seat) with me when I buy gas, and pump a few liters into the can before I fill the bike; when I get home, I dump the can into my car.
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Here most pumps are a single hose and they want to go to 15% so they mandated you buy 4 gallons
to dilute the 15%. Problem is the scoot only takes 2 gallons at a typical fill up. They say just go to a
place with multiple hoses but that would be a few states away!
There is a marina 100 miles from me with the pure gas and it's only $1.50 per gallon more than the
normal stuff...
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For those Canadians that don't know, Shell carries 3 grades of gas: 87-, 89- and 91-octane, which they advertize as containing 10%, 5% and zero % ethanol, respectively. I understand that Shell supplies gas to several "non oil company" outlets, such as Canadian Tire; so, it's at least possible to avoid ethanol in Canada.
I know Chevron here in Vancouver has 94 AKI 0% ethanol delivered from its own separate pump. The Shell nearby has a separate pump too, but not all Shells here pump ethanol-free separately.
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I know Chevron here in Vancouver has 94 AKI 0% ethanol delivered from its own separate pump. The Shell nearby has a separate pump too, but not all Shells here pump ethanol-free separately.
Perhaps I should have qualified my statement to Ontario, or possibly eastern Canada.
Separate highest-grade pumps were quite common around here until about a year ago; then, the stations all seemed to undertake pump upgrades to a single hose. That's when I started using the little gas can to drain the hose. Canadian Tire sells a small 5-liter can that I've managed to fit under the seats of two different scooters.
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Better of just adding a ounce or so of jet fuel to your tank but dont make it a every day think when you fill up. Addatives are good for just cleaning out your jets.
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Lower BTUs in the mix to be sure, but bear in mind that (taking into account the densities, as energy content is per weight and the mixing is by volume) in a gallon of 5% ethanol you lose BTUs equivalent to having 2.7 ounces less of gas. Up that to 10% and the addition of the ethanol is costing you 9.3 ounces worth of "pure gas BTUs" for each gallon in your tank.
I'm honestly not sure that minor diff is worth getting into snake oil territory to try and undo.
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I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of things... I might hurt my head like Crossbolt.... ;D
Three things are important to me...
1. I can get from point A to point B with no problems...
2. I can get there fast enough... car or scoot...
3. I can afford present fuel prices...
High or low octane, high or low BTUs, I don't care... I'm happy... ;)
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I use Sta-Bil Ethanol Treatment in both my bikes. It makes a definite difference, and the gas I buy is almost always major brands unless I have no other choice.
My bikes are a 2012 Kymco Like 200i and a 2012 Can Am Spyder RT-S SE5.
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I use Sta-Bil Ethanol Treatment in both my bikes. It makes a definite difference, and the gas I buy is almost always major brands unless I have no other choice.
My bikes are a 2012 Kymco Like 200i and a 2012 Can Am Spyder RT-S SE5.
How does it make a difference? Do your bikes sit for periods of time without use? If so how long and what problems have you had with "E" fuel?
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I had first hand experience/problems with E-fuel when our small province was used as a guinea pig by our country in experimenting with Gasohol or Alcogas as we called them in the mid 1970's... I was in high school then and my car was a 1973 Dodge Colt and used daily...
Problems encountered...
1. Vapor lock when car sits under the hot sun for several hours. Hard starting.
2. Fuel ate the check valves of the fuel pump. I had to replace the valves every other week. Good thing these old school fuel pumps are repairable. (Yes, I was already tinkering with engines in my early teens)
3. Fuel in the fuel filter became "milky" which indicated water presence. I replaced the fuel filter also almost every month.
4. Fuel destroyed the small metal screen inside the carburetor fuel inlet. I just removed it and left it as is.
After about a year, the Gasohol project was stopped... everybody happy... :)
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How does it make a difference? Do your bikes sit for periods of time without use? If so how long and what problems have you had with "E" fuel?
The only time the bikes sit for long periods is in the winter, and the stabilizer is absolutely necessary. However, even when I ride often, the ethanol treatment is necessary. For example, I usually ride my scooter when the wife is not with me, so the Spyder sat unridden for several days (I was out of the ethanol treatment for that last 2 fill ups on it). It was very hard to start after sitting for less than a week. Once I got it started, I immediately went to Walmart and bought a bottle so I could add some to the gas.
Again this week, I have ridden the scooter only. When I went out yesterday morning to start the Spyder to go on a Patriot Guard ride, it fired right up because I had the ethanol treatment in it.
The ethanol in the gas is crap, just government mandated garbage to help special interest groups. My bikes run significantly better when I add the ethanol treatment. You may not have any troubles with the 10% ethanol fuels, but I do so I do what I can to counter it. Thankfully, the scooter only requires half an ounce each fill up, the Spyder needs 2 ounces per fill up. Both bikes require 93 octane and the only ethanol free gas near me is 87 octane.