KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vivo on February 02, 2013, 03:34:36 AM
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What is happening to you people??? Why?
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/ATF-seizes-30-toy-guns-infuriating-local-business/vUVs2QUCAUuZWeRrqgIQaA.cspx (http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/ATF-seizes-30-toy-guns-infuriating-local-business/vUVs2QUCAUuZWeRrqgIQaA.cspx)
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..vivo, there has been a "rash" of public shootings over here in the past several months...
..more than one have killed many innocent children...
..it has created a new push for weapons regulation...
..right now, one guy shot and killed an elementary school bus driver, took a 5 year old boy hostage, and has been holding him for 4 days in an underground bunker.....
..wtf is that...
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http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/alabama-hostage-standoff-jimmy-lee-dykes-18381574 (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/alabama-hostage-standoff-jimmy-lee-dykes-18381574)
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so... why the toy guns? why not confiscate kitchen knives instead? they are more dangerous...
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..its a trickle-down effect...
..i cant explain it further...
..welcome to th whole new world, ya'll!!...
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"With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said.
You gotta be f'in kidding me
..vivo, there has been a "rash" of public shootings over here in the past several months...
Media is the problem. People get famous, or infamous, for this sh**. I'm sorry but guns are not the problem. 99.99% of gun owners are good, law abiding citizens. If a person wants to hurt or threaten people they'll find a way to do it. There are plenty of things you can use to kill people. Especially in an environment where weapons are not allowed/illegal. The only way to combat terrorism is with a opposing force... i.e. good, law abiding, gun carrying, citizens.
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...cant you see it coming pete...
..2nd ammendment rights are going to be history...
..i heard a topic on the morning news, that some ppl believe the whole constitution should be re-written...
..wtf is that??
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I don't believe it will come to that
There are a lot of patriotic citizens, whether they're ex-military/war veterans or just a guy that owns a 12GA shotgun and hasn't shot it in 10 years, that will become ex-patriots if they do that. Talk about anarchy. Trying to take away a war veteran's guns? Forget about it. Not gonna happen.
Not saying that gun owners don't need to fight this. Now more than ever. I just think that gun control advocates don't understand how many gun owners there really are and just how passionate we really are. And that we're not the devil. We're not hurting people. And if you're like me, the last thing you ever want to do is have to use your gun on a person. If you threaten me or my family though, all bets are off. And every American citizen should have that right. The bill of rights is the first 10 amendments, and they were designed to never be changed or modified. If that falls apart we really are f'ed. I mean f'ed.
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Yes, yes, and yes..... but I still don't get the logic behind toy guns.... maybe the ATF could just have said that "these guns, although they are toys, are being used to harass, scare, or being used to hold-up citizens" and not say that these can be converted into full machine guns... That ATF guy knows nothing about firearms... What are the qualifications of an ATF person by the way.... What law was violated by the toy gun importer? So now they can confiscate anything they want because of what they think might be done with it? Regardless of any law? This is not about guns anymore I think, I think this is really getting out of hand....
If they ban guns,, only criminals will have guns... Are they going to arrest us scooterists because we might have the tendency to become mean and later become terrorists?
Hey Word, did you know that the cop in the SUV will arrest you because you MIGHT twist the throttle, go wot and exceed the speed limit! dang!
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...Virtually never are murderers the ordinary, law-abiding people against whom gun bans are aimed. Almost without exception, murderers are extreme aberrants with lifelong histories of crime, substance abuse, psychopathology, mental retardation and/or irrational violence against those around them, as well as other hazardous behavior, e.g., automobile and gun accidents."
-- Don B. Kates, writing on statistical patterns in gun crime
I'm with you 100% It's a crazy world
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...Virtually never are murderers the ordinary, law-abiding people against whom gun bans are aimed. Almost without exception, murderers are extreme aberrants with lifelong histories of crime, substance abuse, psychopathology, mental retardation and/or irrational violence against those around them, as well as other hazardous behavior, e.g., automobile and gun accidents."
-- Don B. Kates, writing on statistical patterns in gun crime
I'm with you 100% It's a crazy world
I think it's a beautiful world... but with crazy people...
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Thanks Vivo ...... I stand corrected
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Sorry I'm late to the dance, but this is all about taking away out rights to own guns of any kind. Cars, knives etc kill far more people then guns do, they the gov are affraid of us and they don't like it. If they could take them all away they would, however they would die trying.
I can go into great detail but will come off my soap box for now, there is a war going on in the US, undeclaired but a war none the less. They can have my gun over my cold dead body.
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Your right. I will keep this short and simple. I am for the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms. What has happened is we see all these politicians who get all this power. They refuse to listen to the people. Senator Diane Feinstein is now on record as not just wanting a ban on assault weapons, but also on shot guns and pistols. They want the people to be powerless while at the same time having armed guards for themselves. People it is about control. They really do hate the people with a passion. This is my take on this issue. :)
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Let me put in the words of a song:
"Poor man wants to be rich, rich man wants to be King, King ain't satisfied until he rules everything!"
My rights and our constitution are non negotiable.
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We had one school massacre where some wanker went and killed a load of junior school kids and a teacher with legally held handguns in Dunblane, Scotland. After it WE demanded action, the gov proposed all sorts of crap but WE said it was b.s and wanted ALL handguns banned here. Eventually in 1997 we got it. Now NO handguns are allowed, NO assault rifles or semi/full auto guns, and no wepons whos only purpose is for warfare are allowed. Only some hunting rifles and some shotguns are legal here, and even then to hold one you need to pass a rigourous background check and profile check, inc home visits by the police before and during the time you own a gun. We have never had another school massacre since.
This debate always causes arguements in the USA for some weird reason. Some folk seem think they have more rights to own a high powered military spec weapon than everyone else has to feel safe. They also quote the right to bear arms, well yeah, but that was not the right to bear a machine gun or high powered auto pistol, it was a musket or similair weapon. I believe the reason was to be able to form a militia of the people to bring down any future corrupt government, love to see ya'll take on the US armed forces and win with your personal weapons, wouldnt happen nowadays.
To us outside the US it seems a bit sad that this killing of innocents just carries on and on, year after year, and nohing ever is done to stop it. You have the highest number of guns in private ownership in the world, you also have the highest number of deaths from guns in the world. Since the mid-80's youve averaged around 2 massacres per year. Doesnt take a genius to work out how to cut gun deaths does it? EVERY time this happens folk get upset and say this cant ever happen again, well if nothing is done it WILL happen again. And again. And again............
I know about half the Americans on here will disagree with what i said and still insist they have a right to own a gun and no-one is going to change that, thats fine, thats your view, no probs, but how will they stop this happening again? More guns? Better guns? Diesnt work, all you get is an arms race with ghe bad guys, which is exactly why our cops are unarmed here.
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I believe the reason was to be able to form a militia of the people to bring down any future corrupt government, love to see ya'll take on the US armed forces and win with your personal weapons, wouldnt happen nowadays.
The US armed forces are people just like you and me. Extremely patriotic people at that. Good luck convincing them to turn their weapons on American citizens. Some might follow the chain of command. I'm betting most would form a militia of their own.
You have the highest number of guns in private ownership in the world, you also have the highest number of deaths from guns in the world.
Of course!... Oh yeah, I forgot people are never killed with other methods. If you make guns illegal in a country, of course deaths from guns is going to go down. Violence is going to happen guns or not. I'm looking at the whole picture. This is why I hate most statistics. They're just numbers. They don't tell you anything.
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Thought I should add something
Lets consider this a friendly debate. I'm not attacking you streido. I like you. We all have the right to voice our opinion. I don't want other members to start attacking you. Debates like this can get very passionate. Lets keep things civilized. :)
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..yeah, everybody leave streido alone, no matter how much what he said might have hurt your feelings...
;)
..truth is, no matter what legislation is passed, americans will not give up their firearms...
..hell, the right to own them is instilled in us all....
..personally, i dont own a gun......
..got a cpl of sling-shots, a bb rifle and a crossbow...
8)
...i could kill you with either one, if I wanted to...
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BACK TO THE TOPIC...
Why are they confiscating TOY guns????
Matches can cause fires and kill more.... confiscate those....
How about a water gun loaded with toxic chemicals.??
I think it's all about timing, political issues I mean, popular issues are being talked about before elections... un-popular or sensitive issues, after elections... ponder on that....
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...they will pry my slingshot from cold dead hand...
..no, really...
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What about tanks? will they ban them too? :( :( :(
What if I have tanks like collector Jacques Littlefield had?
(http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/10/64/42/2312322/5/628x471.jpg)
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...no, those are weapons of mass destruction...
..homeland will take care of those for you...
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After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only guns are in the hands of the police and military.
William S Burroughs
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BACK TO THE TOPIC...
Why are they confiscating TOY guns????
Matches can cause fires and kill more.... confiscate those....
How about a water gun loaded with toxic chemicals.??
I think it's all about timing, political issues I mean, popular issues are being talked about before elections... un-popular or sensitive issues, after elections... ponder on that....
Toy companies are easy targets
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Which would you rather have, a toy converted into a questionable firearm or a fully functional "home-made" gun.... We have some backyard industries here manufacturing illegal firearms. Some of these guns are good...
(http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/paltik-11.jpg)
(http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/paltik-2.jpg)
(http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/paltik-6.jpg)
(http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/paltik-7.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0p7vkkSxHDU/T8EF3y61kNI/AAAAAAAABQs/B3gvAiwN5jU/s1600/guns300.jpg)
Our .25 caliber mini-ingram.... cute little feller....
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6gSga--jKNgSKSzVDRPodjBrlZ1C8O-b-rerdygwRQnhOlzRSow)
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I would prefer a real weapon to protect and defend just in case I had to use it. It is like martial arts. Why do we learn martial arts if we feel we will never use this? The point here is that it is about learning how to protect and defend ourselves against those who would do harm to us. Now in the states, we all know the government wants to control people. Those who say the 2nd Amendment is about hunting only miss the point. In the early days of the USA, everyone owned a firearm. In fact it was common for everyone to go out and hunt for food. If they did not, they would go hungry. Our founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing. The 2nd Amendment really is about the right of the people to defend themselves from those who would do harm to them.
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(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu103/ocimadciv/gunfreezone_zpsd7b36f31.jpg)
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the answer of toy guns is because they look so real, if a cop says put your weapon down, kids think this is just a toy there not talking to me , and they have been shot ,. how would you like to be the cop that shot a kid,
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The US armed forces are people just like you and me. Extremely patriotic people at that. Good luck convincing them to turn their weapons on American citizens. Some might follow the chain of command. I'm betting most would form a militia of their own.
So why do the private citizens even need the guns then to form a militia ??? They dont.
Of course!... Oh yeah, I forgot people are never killed with other methods. If you make guns illegal in a country, of course deaths from guns is going to go down. Violence is going to happen guns or not. I'm looking at the whole picture.
Well there must be something way wrong in your society then if you all are intent on killing each other with whatever weapon you can get your hands on? Even so, its harder to massacre with a sword or knife than it is with a gun.
Lets consider this a friendly debate. I'm not attacking you streido. I like you. We all have the right to voice our opinion. I don't want other members to start attacking you. Debates like this can get very passionate. Lets keep things civilized.
100% agree Pete. I wasnt even going to get involved in this debate purely because i know its such a touchy subject over there. I fully expect many people wont agree with me. No probs. Like you say, we all have our opinions. Surely everyone must see tho that SOM :)ETHING has to be done SOMEWHERE to try prevent these assholes before they act. I just shake my head now when i read or hear of another tragedy on the news over there, NOTHING ever get done to stop or minimise it happening again which makes little sense? If you keep doing the same thing then you can expect to keep getting the same outcomes?
I like you
:-* I like you too Pete :)
..yeah, everybody leave streido alone, no matter how much what he said might have hurt your feelings
Wasnt my intention to hurt anyones feelings, if i did then i apologise. All i meant to do was give it perspective from an unarmed country. Im a big boy, i can take a beating down if it comes
Why are they confiscating TOY guns?
All toy guns here must have a red plastic tip to show they are toys. Maybe sokething to do with this Vivo? Saves innocent kids being surrounded or shot with by armed swat teams after someone mistakingly reports some kids running about with a gun? Lots of these toys look VERY realistic, especially from a distance.
In the early days of the USA, everyone owned a firearm
Yup, but as i read only last week, gun control was actually better back then in many places than it is now. Even in the days of Tombstone all guns had to be handed into the sheriff upon entering town to stop shootings.
Like i said, most of us Europeans just dont get it, must be a culture thing. I cant see any reasonable excuse for anyone not serving in a warzone to ever own an auto or semi-auto firearm, or a high capacity magazine, or some gun which would bring down an elephant, i dont understand it? Im sure theyre fun to shoot legally at targets etc but the risk isnt worth it, as has been shown time and time again. A small calibre handgun is more than enough for personal protection if you insist on it.
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This debate always causes arguements in the USA for some weird reason. Some folk seem think they have more rights to own a high powered military spec weapon than everyone else has to feel safe. They also quote the right to bear arms, well yeah, but that was not the right to bear a machine gun or high powered auto pistol, it was a musket or similair weapon. I believe the reason was to be able to form a militia of the people to bring down any future corrupt government, love to see ya'll take on the US armed forces and win with your personal weapons, wouldnt happen nowadays.
To us outside the US it seems a bit sad that this killing of innocents just carries on and on, year after year, and nohing ever is done to stop it. You have the highest number of guns in private ownership in the world, you also have the highest number of deaths from guns in the world. Since the mid-80's youve averaged around 2 massacres per year. Doesnt take a genius to work out how to cut gun deaths does it? EVERY time this happens folk get upset and say this cant ever happen again, well if nothing is done it WILL happen again. And again. And again............
First you'd need to be an American to uderstand this whole "my rights thing", people that have no clue should keep their uneducated comments to themselves. No disrespect but your not American so you don't get it.
My "RIGHTS" shall not be infringed, what about that don't you get, your argument is an emotional one not a constructive one. Fact it is our right to own a weapon, that cannot be taken away. The reason for this right is to ward off any tyrant that wants to rule the people with an iron fist, not for hunting.
As for the class of guns every gun could be an assult weapon that's just a wonderful word they made up to scare nice people. The guns (Muskets) that were used back in the 1700's were the state of the art military weapons of the day, why can't we advance with the times? Do you really expect us to use black powder and ball to defend ourselves from a military establishment? Please, you are so uninformed.
We are a nation of guns, take away my gun and only bad guys will have them, they won't be turning theirs in you can count on it.
FYI the district of Washington (Washington DC) and the city of Chicago have the toughest gun laws in the nation, no guns allowed, yet they have the highest crime rates. You know why don't you, because they (the bad guys) know you can't fight back.
In case you are unaware we the American people own some 300 million legal guns I can't even think of the number of illegal guns out there. Do you think we could not over run our invading troops? You need to remember that our troops have an obligation to uphold the constitution first and foremost, they have no obligation to follow a tyrant of a leader.
Stick to political banter in your part of the world where perhaps you know something about it, you wan't see me commenting on your country not having guns, it's your country, who the hell am I to say what you should be doing.
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Americans are armed for protection against savages, as this has always been a wild place, and 21st Century savages still roam the land.
One would think that civilized Europe would be more safe, but that is where millions upon millions died, first the Lost Generation in World War One, then again in World War Two with even more horrific violence.
There has never been anything like it in America, and our losses in foreign wars were our contribution to civilty. If someone invades your country, and tries to make you a slave, we'll come kick their ass.
You're welcome.
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Americans are armed for protection against savages, as this has always been a wild place, and 21st Century savages still roam the land.
One would think that civilized Europe would be more safe, but that is where millions upon millions died, first the Lost Generation in World War One, then again in World War Two with even more horrific violence.
There has never been anything like it in America, and our losses in foreign wars were our contribution to civilty. If someone invades your country, and tries to make you a slave, we'll come kick their ass.
You're welcome.
Thank you, well said. I wonder how many people in the United States have been killed by guns in the last 100 years, maybe a couple of million and all innocent (maybe, maybe not). But here is how many innocents were killed by gov. around the world in that time, 170,000,000. Innocents Betrayed - Genocide By Gun Control - True History of Gun Confiscation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgJg3L7VLxU#) The clip is long but you'll get the messege in the first 5 minutes. A gov is far more likely to kill you then a nut in America with a gun.
As the saying goes, read it and weep, weep for one of those 170 million innocents that were killed at the hands of their modern day gov.
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All one has to look at are those countries with full dictatorships such as North Korea and Cuba. Look at Paul Pot in Cambodia. Here was a guy who was educated in the west and then came back to kill his own people. God forbid we should bring this fact up. When the people are allow to protect and defend themselves crime goes down. Then again guns don't kill people it is people who kill people with whatever weapons they chose to do this.
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Thought I'd add that more people are killed with kitchen knives and hammers then guns in the US, maybe time to eat with chop sticks and only use nail guns to build houses.
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guns, of any sort are but tools. depending on the hands they are in tools can build and tools can destroy.
Take away our guns and you leave us without the tools to rebuild what tools in the hands of fools have destroyed.
to be unarmed is to be at the mercy of any and every governmental renegade group that wants controlling power.
I'll hang on to mine thanks legally or otherwise.
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All toy guns here must have a red plastic tip to show they are toys. Maybe sokething to do with this Vivo? Saves innocent kids being surrounded or shot with by armed swat teams after someone mistakingly reports some kids running about with a gun? Lots of these toys look VERY realistic, especially from a distance.
Yes, toy guns must have the orange or red tip. As per report, there was a previous shipment of toy guns without the red tips... the customs held it, informed the importer, then the importer had the toys tipped with red... then the customs approved them... NO CONFISCATION WAS DONE. This time, the customs saw the guns and didnt recognize them as toys...informed the ATF... the ATF saw them and confiscated them... the ATF later realized they were toys but instead of admitting they made a mistake and look like fools, the ATF stood to their decision and tried to justify their actions.
080, yes man knives! they are silent...no need for bullets... and they don't jam... ;D ;D ;D
Guns are part of American culture...although I am not an American I can perfectly understand this. Guns won the West... the Colt Frontier single action revolver and the Winchester rifle! These are were the two that are and will remain part of American history and culture. The 1911 / 1911A1.. the most copied .45 pistol is pure American culture and part of our history as well. This is the only handgun that can stop a Muslim Juramentado during the peak of muslim campaigns in our country before. If it wasnt for this handgun... many innocent would have died...
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. The reason for this right is to ward off any tyrant that wants to rule the people with an iron fist, not for hunting.
Good luck with that, i did touch on that 08, but times have changed since that particular right was written. Like i said, good luck shooting down drones, the Taliban have tried for years without much success. Still, even if you think you wpuld ever be "ruled by a tyrant" you dont need guns to defeat them, as has be proven recently around the globe with the so called "Arab Springs". People overthrew their tyrants thro civil disobedience, protest and other non-violent means, and won.
Do you really expect us to use black powder and ball to defend ourselves from a military establishment? Please, you are so uninformed
See above.
Stick to political banter in your part of the world where perhaps you know something about it, you wan't see me commenting on your country not having guns, it's your country, who the hell am I to say what you should be doing.
So now no-one can comment on things unless they directly affect them or they have a direct interest in the topic/thread? I own an Agililty, so can i not now comment on any other scooter? Can i now not comment or have a view on say American bike laws? American spec scooters? American anything? Get a grip. Its an open forum, anyone can say whatever they like as ling as its not racist, sexist, homophobic or attacking, you say plenty of stuff i dont agree with but i dont tell you to butt out and not have an opinion? (tho a few others have?). You really are quite hard headed and stubborn, or at least thats how you come across? Whenever YOU have any opinion on anything you seem to always think youre correct and everyone else is just wrong, or stupid. Prob why youre the only member i know on here who has upset, annoyed and argued with so many other members because they happened to have a different view to yours?
Personally i dont care what you do about your gun problem, like you said, i dont live there, but i do care and do feel sorry when i see innocent folks, especially children, shot and killed by a maniac or unstable person with a gun. If you all are happy to live the way you do then by all means carry on as you are.
As always 08, been an absolute pleasure :-*
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Just to add 08........
No. I do not have experience of living in a country with a gun problem, neither do i have experience of gun crime. My comments are based on my experience growing up in Glasgow in the 70's & 80's when we had a big knife and knife crime problem. It got to the stage where even normal, innocent folks began carrying knives just to protect themselves in case they were robbed or atracked by thugs/crims. See the similarities? How did they stop it? By hammering down on it. Anyone caught with a knife gets an automatic semtence, unless its a chef or worker with his trade tools going or coming from work. Any one involved in knife crime alao got higher semtences. Sure, things didnt change overnight, it took years, but now we have no knife problem. Yeah, some idiots do still carry a knife but it is rare for them to use it on anyone other than another gang member or crim. From speaking to other American friends, mamy say that police forces in many states are pretty bad, and so is their response times and follow up, mayhe you need to look at that and its funding if they dont have the resources to work as they should? I know if i called the cops now for an intruder in my home then a cop would be at my door in 2-3 mins max, from what i hear that is not the case in many parts of the US?
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You miss the point as usual. We have it built into our constitution, they cannot take it away. I'd much rather live here then where I'm not on equal terms with the bad guys and police.
You missed that our military has an obligation to defend the constitution and I have faith they will not attack the citizens. The Police (state) on the other hand I have little faith in and I know we the people will run all over them with our pea shooters.
The reason Japan didn't invade mainland US back in WWII was because there was a gun behind every blade of grass. The reason we are fee today is because we have a gun in evey house. Nice how you don't care to address the meat of any pro gun argument on this forum. how about the 170,000,000 killed by tyrants. try and discuss 1 topic.
And what I'm saying about sticking to politics in yourpart of the world is that you obviously know nothing about them in my part of the world. Like I said nothing from me on your countries policies as I'm ignorant of them just as it's so obvious your ignorant of ours.
On a side note: Where the hell is Mad Dog?
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If you agree with the this statement, we in America know exactly where your coming from and which side of your face your speaking though.
We're not to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few "crazies," but the acts of a few American crazies is enough to judge all Americans who own guns.
Left logic and 2 faced!
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Argue with this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=39e_1360125919 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=39e_1360125919)
If the American Indians had guns and ammo maybe I'd be speaking the native language of my mothers blood line instead of the English we all do today.
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Now back to our program...... ;D
ATF still cannot answer questions why they confiscated the toys.... they are trying hard to justify their actions and stick to it.... tsk, tsk... This really is not a gun issue anymore and is hitting below the belt.... what about the thousands of toys already in the hands of citizens and the thousands already in stores? Hey ATF Agents!!!! confiscate them all!!! Stupid !!! What's next? Arrest inflatable dolls for prostitution???
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Now back to our program...... ;D
ATF still cannot answer questions why they confiscated the toys.... they are trying hard to justify their actions and stick to it.... tsk, tsk... This really is not a gun issue anymore and is hitting below the belt.... what about the thousands of toys already in the hands of citizens and the thousands already in stores? Hey ATF Agents!!!! confiscate them all!!! Stupid !!! What's next? Arrest inflatable dolls for prostitution???
Going by the letter of the law the ATF or whoever confiscated them were correct in doing so. Going back in time a cop on more then one occasion shot and killed someone with a "toy" gun that looked real and that is the reason for the pink or red tip. There is no personal responsibility in the US these days. The whole outlook is punish everyone for the mistakes or actions of the few.
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It is for this reason, I will not engage in politics, or religion of some sort. It can get real nasty with these topics. The United States has become a sue happy nation with everyone suing anyone for anything. We have become a nation where the citizens refuse to take responsibility for their actions. It is never anyone's fault. No, it is someone's else fault. We have become a nation of victims which is sad. All one has to do is look at the President of the United States. It is his behavior which encourages everyone to be the victim instead of owning up to their own actions for what they have done in their own lives. I refuse to give into this behavior.
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Oh well, I guess that's that... we all have our share of problems... we have juvenile crimes in our country that cannot be stopped... and is rising... aside from deadly weapons, juveniles carry birth certificates to prove their ages... when they are caught by cops, they just show their birth certificates proving that they are below 18 to prevent jail. They end up in social services for counseling. After a day or two, they're back on the streets.... What people do is just shoot and kill child criminals instead of calling the cops... :o
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You miss the point as usual. We have it built into our constitution, they cannot take it away. I'd much rather live here then where I'm not on equal terms with the bad guys and police
I missed the point? As far as im aware the constitution says you have the right to bear arms, i dont think that by restricting certain firearms you are going against the constitution? You would still have the right to bear arms, just not hi-tech military grade arms. Apart from the fact they may well be good fun to shoot (at targets) i cant see any justification for owning many of these more powerful guns with high capacity magazines and fast fire-rates?
You missed that our military has an obligation to defend the constitution and I have faith they will not attack the citizens
So in effect there is no real need for an armed militia then anyway?
Nice how you don't care to address the meat of any pro gun argument on this forum. how about the 170,000,000 killed by tyrants. try and discuss 1 topic
Wtf are you talking about? Did i not mention the Arab springs? These folks unseated tyrants who ruled over them by protest and civil disobedience, and won. The meat of any Pro-gun arguement? Why would i be pro-gun? Guns have no place in a modern civilised society? If i lived in a country where i felt so scared of coming under attack in the street or in my home that i felt i had to arm myself then i would be asking serious questions of my country, my government, my police forces and my sanity. Is that how you see it, its so dangerous you must have access to a gun? If so, thats a sad situation to live in. If on the other hand you just happen to enjoy guns and shooting then fine, but dont use b.s excuses to try make it out to be somekind of security against a possible future tyranical government.
And what I'm saying about sticking to politics in yourpart of the world is that you obviously know nothing about them in my part of the world. Like I said nothing from me on your countries policies as I'm ignorant of them just as it's so obvious your ignorant of ours.
Despite what you think i am in fact not ignorant of US gov and politics. In fact i am probably better informed than the majority of American citizens who get their daily political fix from Fox or the liberal equivalent. Politics is actually interesting to me, for both good and bad reasons. I dont get you 08, i really dont....... I would have no problem hearing what other foreign people think of my country or its policies and politics, its good to find out how other percieve you around the world (maybe not so good tho if youre American?). I value others input and comments, it often give me something to think about or gives another angle i hadnt always seen.
On a side note: Where the hell is Mad Dog?
Dont know what you mean? Only "Mad Dog" i know of is Gadaffi, and hes dead.
We're not to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few "crazies," but the acts of a few American crazies is enough to judge all Americans who own guns.
Very true, yes, i totally agree. I dont. I have many American friends, most online but a couple of "real life" ones too. Being such a huge country with such a large population im sure you have all kinds there, as we have here. The thing that gets me, and most other non-Americans, is tho WHY is NOTHING done to stop or at least minimise tbe risk of these incidents happening again? As a responsible gun owner i would be demanding action to stop my name being blackened futher by the next loon who goes on a rampage with a weapon? I would be happy to see certain controls or measures put in place to help protect innocents being murdered, and to prevent my hobby/sport/interest being dragged down (as it is now) even if that meant i may have to give up that one particular type of gun or ammo or have access to them heavily restricted. I also agree you need better access to mental health care, whether you have ins or not. Guns are not the whole problem here, but they are part of the problem.
So do you think no gun control at all is needed? Or some kind of control or new improved check/monitoring is needed? I have friends here who shoot clay's and one hunts dear and birds, both have gun licenses but had to jump thro hoops to get them, agreeing to random home checks by the police, proper background checks and both know if they get into any trouble with the pokice or courts they have a real good chance of losing their gun license. Neither of them has ANY real problem complying, they can see it stops anyone just owning a gun, it helps weed out the nuts and unstable folk and keeps their sport/hobby from being dragged down by a few psychos.
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Just popping in to make a few points, I always enjoy a good, civil debate.
Military grade weapons aren't available to the general public in the US. Soldiers have weapons the are switchable from semiauto to fully automatic. Even the big, bad "assault weapons" that people want to ban are just semiautomatic, like most other firearms and can't shoot any faster. Their cosmetic features make them look like military weapons.
Except in the most urban areas, police response time is many times greater than 2-3 minutes. Sometimes it can be an hour or more in very rural areas. We have states bigger than many European countries. You'd better be ready to protect yourself and your family and not depend on law enforcement.
Weapon technology has advanced just like communications technology. Should the 1st amendment apply only to the town crier and printing press? That was state of the art back in the 1700's.
Gun culture differs in various countries just like scooter culture. Areas of Europe and Asia have many more scooter riders than most of the US. What if politicians there decided that scooters below 100cc were too dangerous to ride and outlawed them? I have a feeling there'd be a huge outcry of "your taking away our freedoms."
There are about 20,000 guns laws now in the US. Maybe if the courts did a better job of enforcing existing laws it would help reduce gun crime.
And by the way, none of my guns went out and shot anyone today.
Ride safe.
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Thank you AVguy!
Well said and good analogies. I happen to live in one of those rural areas and our police/sheriff response time takes forever and the best I know how to describe these village idiots is a cross between Larry the Cable Guy and Barney Fife. With home invasions on the rise I practice diligently to withstand having my door kicked in. I also keep a loaded 9mm tucked away in my recliner. I have attended firearms safety courses and am the only defense I need to save my family from thugs and gangs.
Mike
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You are right AVGuy... In our country, 2-stroke scooters/motorbikes are being phased out...that's the law... and no 2-stroker fan can do anything about it.
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Just popping in to make a few points, I always enjoy a good, civil debate.
Military grade weapons aren't available to the general public in the US. Soldiers have weapons the are switchable from semiauto to fully automatic. Even the big, bad "assault weapons" that people want to ban are just semiautomatic, like most other firearms and can't shoot any faster. Their cosmetic features make them look like military weapons.
Except in the most urban areas, police response time is many times greater than 2-3 minutes. Sometimes it can be an hour or more in very rural areas. We have states bigger than many European countries. You'd better be ready to protect yourself and your family and not depend on law enforcement.
Weapon technology has advanced just like communications technology. Should the 1st amendment apply only to the town crier and printing press? That was state of the art back in the 1700's.
Gun culture differs in various countries just like scooter culture. Areas of Europe and Asia have many more scooter riders than most of the US. What if politicians there decided that scooters below 100cc were too dangerous to ride and outlawed them? I have a feeling there'd be a huge outcry of "your taking away our freedoms."
There are about 20,000 guns laws now in the US. Maybe if the courts did a better job of enforcing existing laws it would help reduce gun crime.
And by the way, none of my guns went out and shot anyone today.
Ride safe.
Well said
You are right AVGuy... In our country, 2-stroke scooters/motorbikes are being phased out...that's the law... and no 2-stroker fan can do anything about it.
Here too Vivo. A matter of fact, it's one of the major reasons I was interested in Kymco in the first place. Real hard to find 2-strokes anymore. Quality 2t engines anyway. No Japanese or American made 2-Stroke bikes are available in the US anymore as far as I know. I happen to own two Yamaha Blaster 2-Stroke quads. I have a feeling value will only increase as time goes on. Of course I own two Kymco 2-strokes as well. I love 2-stroke engines. My PS3 username is twostroksmoke :D
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There you have it ladies and gents... two-stoke smokes and gun smokes.... ;D
The difference between our country and other countries is that we have several armed groups here... there is the Abu Sayyaf, the New Peoples' Army, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, other private armies, and even mountain bandits.... Citizens need to arm themselves not only with handguns but also with higher caliber weapons for security purposes. We even had the CHDF - Civilian Home Defense Force...as per a Presidential Decree.... arming civilians to fight insurgency...
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There you have it ladies and gents... two-stoke smokes and gun smokes.... ;D
The difference between our country and other countries is that we have several armed groups here... there is the Abu Sayyaf, the New Peoples' Army, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, other private armies, and even mountain bandits.... Citizens need to arm themselves not only with handguns but also with higher caliber weapons for security purposes. We even had the CHDF - Civilian Home Defense Force...as per a Presidential Decree.... arming civilians to fight insurgency...
We had something like that too up until 20 years ago. Not anymore. Now we are a part of NATO bandit gang so we are "protected" by NATO and go in missions to "fight terrorism" in Afghanistan etc., serving the big dogs of the game.
If I lived in USA and with Predators and Reapers getting green light to be deployed domestically, I would probably have to invest in anti-aircraft artillery too, not only to defend my home from intruders. I wonder how people in USA will defend their "rights" from drones, for example.
Streido: I am afraid nothing much happened after West-orchestrated "Arab spring" for the people of those countries. Libya was turned into a Mad Max-state with radical islamists running the show, of which ex. American ambassador could speak if he was not dispatched to another world by them. Egypt is still in turmoil with people sitting in Tahrir square and protesting, after almost 3 years. Again Sunni wahabbis in charge, they replaced Mubarak with another dictator. West, Saudi and Qatar sponsored terrorists killed dozens of people in Syria and it has been going on for almost two years. I will not even discuss Palestine, Israel and what USA is constantly trying to do messing with Iran. It's a shame what so called "West", run by USA is doing in Africa and Middle East, and how sheep like my country were dragged into the whole story.
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What if politicians there decided that scooters below 100cc were too dangerous to ride and outlawed them?
I wouldnt be happy i guess but if the reason why they were being banned made sense and banning them saved lives then i would have to accept it. Same with if they banned petrol/diesel to save the enviroment, as long as i had an alternative and my life wasnt going to change drastically i would have no problems, even tho im into classic cars and scooters that run on petrol. Or if i insisted on using my vlassics i would modify them to suit the new regulations/laws, in the same way i would if they introduced new car license requirements/tests. Same surely could apply to guns?
Maybe if the courts did a better job of enforcing existing laws it would help reduce gun crime
Maybe. Seems to be a massive problem with stolen/unregistered guns getting into criminals hands very easily?
Im not trying to start a huge arguement here, was only giving my opinion. I didnt expect an easy ride. I still cannot see any reasonable justification for owning many of the guns available other than just for fun. Anyway, we'll see what, if anything, changes. I just hope they can find some way to stop or at least minimise many more innocents being shot.