KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: Adept on January 17, 2013, 07:26:25 PM
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Hi
Have anybody heard about assembling ABS subsequently to a bike? Is it possible?
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You mean adding it on after the fact? There's a bit involved. You need the sensor ring and sensor on each wheel.
Then you need a fluid release plumbed into the brake line. Then you need a CPU to monitor the wheels and release
the pressure at the right times. You might as well buy a crashed scoot with it on it and transfer all the parts...
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You might as well buy a crashed scoot with it on it and transfer all the parts...
Just make sure the crash was not due to a faulty ABS.... ;D
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You mean adding it on after the fact? There's a bit involved. You need the sensor ring and sensor on each wheel.
Then you need a fluid release plumbed into the brake line. Then you need a CPU to monitor the wheels and release
the pressure at the right times. You might as well buy a crashed scoot with it on it and transfer all the parts...
Thank you... Theoretically the Downtown has this sensor ring by default.
So I have to get a crashed Downtown with ABS... Can I buy genuine ABS parts from Kymco? Maybe i t is a faster way...
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If you could find a parts list for an ABS scooter and a non-abs you would just buy all of the coresponding parts and swap them out. Anything with a different part number for the whole braking system, any additional parts that don't come with the non-abs, and maybe even the ecu. I have done stuff like that with a car to add a feature that was added to the model line a couple years later. It is not a cheap way to do things however.
I don't know about Kymco parts but if it is anything like OEM car parts, they kill you on replacement parts cost.
I'd love to add it if I could because there was no ABS option in the US, but I bet you could spend over $500 pretty quick. It would be nice if Kymco thought there was enough interest in the US or other markets to offer an ABS conversion kit with all the parts and instructions in one package.
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It would probably be cheeper to buy a scooter from another country that has it , and import it,.
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not counting shipping exchange rate , british $ 3999 Lb.s =canadian 6,500 $ I dont know if the price listed includes value added tax which is 20%, would have to call them and do some horse trading , I think it will be better to wait till kymco sends ABS brakes here, the premium for ABS is 500$,. when it is available,.
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It would probably be cheeper to buy a scooter from another country that has it , and import it,.
Unfortunately here in Hungary, we have a "registration tax". It is 135000 HUF (450euros). It is the same if I would buy a new toyota Corolla. So when I find a good used bike (with ABS) on the mobile.de for example for 3000euros, and I bring it home, I have to pay 3700euros for it (regtax, transportation, papers, etc). So it is not a good business in HUngary. That is why everybody bringing in crashed bikes... :((
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I'd love to add it if I could because there was no ABS option in the US, but I bet you could spend over $500 pretty quick. It would be nice if Kymco thought there was enough interest in the US or other markets to offer an ABS conversion kit with all the parts and instructions in one package.
Yes that is would be nice :D :D
Now I surfing the net, to find some description or solution about this issue...
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I have found a bike builder shop in Hungary. They've said it is way too expensive to make this modification. They can only use factory items so it isn't worth... But this is only their opinion :D
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???How does the ABS work, I heard that it does not pulse the brake, it lowers the brake preasure How does it compare with honda brakes on there scooters,. other than combined braking that they have,.
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???How does the ABS work, I heard that it does not pulse the brake, it lowers the brake preasure How does it compare with honda brakes on there scooters,. other than combined braking that they have,.
I think, that is the way it works... You grab the brake with full power, the wheel stops, and the abs release a little power (override your grab), so the wheel can roll over. The result, you won't fall down...
It is not an error. The pulsing is because this stop-release cycle goes very fast over and over again. You feel this as a pulse...
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???How does the ABS work, I heard that it does not pulse the brake, it lowers the brake preasure How does it compare with honda brakes on there scooters,. other than combined braking that they have,.
There are two kinds...the aftermarket China ABS that works by easing pressure on the discs... these are the dangerous types because these are not real ABS. Don't buy these....
The other type are the real ABS... The "pulse" or stop-release-stop-release like Adept described is the real ABS... These are electronically controlled and the pulse is around 20 per second.
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I presume kymco has the pulse ABS system,. for the 300i DT. and the GT 300i it sure will be nice when these scooters get to canada and the usa. with ABS,. I would like to try a gt. 300i and see if there is much difference in handleing,. and ease in getting crappy leg onto scooter,. I have to do my 80 year old test next month ,. I hope I can do it with my scooter,.
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There are two kinds...the aftermarket China ABS that works by easing pressure on the discs... these are the dangerous types because these are not real ABS. Don't buy these....
The other type are the real ABS... The "pulse" or stop-release-stop-release like Adept described is the real ABS... These are electronically controlled and the pulse is around 20 per second.
I don't really understand what is the difference? The chinese abs you talk about is a mechanical abs, what is a pressure valve, I think, isn't it..? Why is it so bad?
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The chinese ABS just makes it so you cannot lock up the wheel. It's a one wheel system.
The "real" ABS allows for maximum braking without the bike falling over (as it measures
the front wheelspeed vs rear) and so is a 2 wheel system.
On the 2 wheel system the brake feels firm like normal and just pulses when ABS is engaged.
The one wheel system feels mushy and weak...
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Meanwhile, I got an offer from kymcosparepart.com.
The abs modulator alone (without the all other parts) is 900euro... :) Very expensive indeed... I was surprised.
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I don't really understand what is the difference? The chinese abs you talk about is a mechanical abs, what is a pressure valve, I think, isn't it..? Why is it so bad?
One reason it is so bad is it is almost always bleeding brake pressure. You virtually never get the braking force you are applying to the brakes in full because in any hard stop it is bleeding pressure. The valve has no idea what the wheel is doing, once the pressure in the system gets to a certain point the valve opens and there goes a percentage of your braking force. REAL ABS has a sensor that can tell when the wheel is spinning and when it locks and adjusts the pressure accordingly. You only will lose the absolute minimum distance to keep the wheel from locking.
The "mechanical" as you call it, just bleeds pressure through a "dumb" valve. In many situations it will increase your stopping distance and get into accidents where you should have been able to stop in time but can't due to the pressure that has been bled off.
The bleed valve just makes the system not strong enough to lock up the wheel anymore and calls it ABS. It should be called "weaker brakes".
Simply put: In panic or emergency situations the mechanical valve does nothing but keep the wheel from locking by reducing the braking force and adding to the stopping distance. The computer controlled system produces the shortest stopping distance possible in all situations without locking the wheel.
So in theory, a proper computer controlled system will be able to out brake an experienced rider when traction is poor/lost. But an experienced (or perhaps even a novice) rider might be able to out brake the valve system just modulating by feel as long as they don't lock and go down. But humans will often be able to outbrake the valve system as long as they modulate to keep from lock. In that case, the valve system will always produce the worst outcome: longest distance to stop IF the rider good enopugh to avoid lock by modulating the brakes. The fixed object or car you are trying to avoid, you may smack into because the valve has increased the distance to stop. A valve might be superior to a person when say a wet road is the only concern, but if it is a panic stop due to a left turner or something coming into your path, the valve can prove more hazardous than a bike without one. If I had to venture a guess, these "ABS" valves are standard on chinese bikes because they are used in many parts of Asia with poor quality/dusty dirt roads and little training and hard grabs on the front lead to locked wheels and rider going over the bars. IMHO they are far less needed/effective in countries with decent pavement. If I am riding in rural Thailand or China on dirt roads daily, I probably want one, otherwise I don't.
I am kind of a technical guy and a mechanically inclined, but an inexperienced rider. It freaks me out to know that lots of inexperienced riders buy cheap Chinese scooters that say ABS on them and gives them a false sense of security to ride faster or less conscious of conditions and increases the distance they need to stop when they think it will be the opposite. Accidents on motorbikes are not very forgiving.
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Reminds me of the lady that bought a used car. She crashed it and the airbags didn't go off as
there weren't any. She sued the dealer because she crashed on purpose and expected the airbag
to save her!
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Reminds me of the lady that bought a used car. She crashed it and the airbags didn't go off as
there weren't any. She sued the dealer because she crashed on purpose and expected the airbag
to save her!
Off topic: We must also remember that air bags (front, side) are SRS or supplemental restraint systems and are not the primary safety gadgets in the car... the seat belts are the primary restraints and the air bags are supplementary... You cannot rely soley on the airbags to save you...
Also, you cannot sue the company if you bought a pre-owned car... The law does not require air bag checks for used cars...