KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: windwheeler on November 22, 2012, 06:18:34 PM
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I have a 2005 G/V 250 and I was eying with a newer 2012 Downtown 300i, test drove it and saw the good and the ugly. I am not really tall, 5'10", 32" inseam. My biggest complaint is the seating position on the 300i. The G/V is not too great either, but without the backrest at least "better" and more leg stretch possible. The 300i seat does not even allow to take anything off and I felt cramped with the legs in right angle position. On top of that I slid always forward on the seat while riding it on the interstate. Otherwise, the 300i is the much more modern scoot and has a great engine, but if it is uncomfortable it spoils the whole thing.
Any reasonable fix to the seat? All comments in comparison and as alternatives would be appreciated.
Eric
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The GV and Downtown scooters were designed for short riders (5'7" max),
so if you are taller, then look at the other models of Kymco scooters.
Happy Thanksgiving,
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Which models from Kymco do you think are better suited for taller than 5'7" riders?
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Which models from Kymco do you think are better suited for taller than 5'7" riders?
The Xciting is higher than the DT....
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I`m 6ft 2" with a 34 inch inside leg and manage ok.
Ok its not the roomiest scooter and it would be nice if Kymco moved that backrest back an inch,but it certainly isnt as bad as i thought it would be.
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Hello Jimmtuk, I assume you refer to the Downtown (SuperDink). How long time wise are you sitting on this thing with 34" legs??! I ride the GrandVista often between 1-2 hrs in one stretch, and 2 hrs is about the max limit without brakes. If I hadn't so much fun taking it through mountain twisting roads I would get off much quicker. So I am concerned about "seat time" (not miles) on that Downtown.
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I only use it as a commuter,longest stint has been about 2 hours when i first got it,but usually a 20 minute journey.
Compared to my usual ride (a ZX12) it is super comfortable except for the jarring from the rear suspension,but most scoots are like this.
The biggest gripe for me was the buffeting at speed caused by the standard screen,for my height a higher screen is definately needed.
Next to a Burgman or similar monsters i can see it coming a distinct second best.
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While the DT300 could be roomier for it's size, it's fine for me, and I'm 5'11".
People and Xciting have more room though.
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Seat height is important and so is seat 'width'. The xciting series have the widest driver seats I have ever tried, it makes your legs seem a lot shorter.
IMO, buttstops are idiotic, especially for scooters. I have removed the buttstop (cut foam) on the DT. Unfortunately there is still quite a forward slope to the seat but it is much improved. I can slide all around forward to back and even use the upper footsteps and the passenger footsteps.
IMO, Burgman 400 has the best ergonomics of this 'style' of scooters.
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I'm 5'11 and the leg room/seat bugs me. What's odd though is I've riden for 3 hour stretches and been just fine, but twisty mountain roads helps take your mind off it. Despite it, I think I'd rather have this than a Silver Wing, Burgman or Majesty, nothing against them, they are more roomy. The fuel economy, maneuvering, and corning is fantastic on the Downtown. I was going to opt for the BMW C600 this coming spring. However, with the uncertain economy here, I think I'll save a bunch and just get a custom seat, or at least I'm 75% sure that's what I'll do.
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Seat height is important and so is seat 'width'. The xciting series have the widest driver seats I have ever tried, it makes your legs seem a lot shorter.
IMO, buttstops are idiotic, especially for scooters. I have removed the buttstop (cut foam) on the DT. Unfortunately there is still quite a forward slope to the seat but it is much improved. I can slide all around forward to back and even use the upper footsteps and the passenger footsteps.
IMO, Burgman 400 has the best ergonomics of this 'style' of scooters.
Can you please explain how you cut the foam in the seat and made it still "tight? Or is the seat skin floppy now?
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I'm 5'11 and the leg room/seat bugs me. What's odd though is I've riden for 3 hour stretches and been just fine, but twisty mountain roads helps take your mind off it. Despite it, I think I'd rather have this than a Silver Wing, Burgman or Majesty, nothing against them, they are more roomy. The fuel economy, maneuvering, and corning is fantastic on the Downtown. I was going to opt for the BMW C600 this coming spring. However, with the uncertain economy here, I think I'll save a bunch and just get a custom seat, or at least I'm 75% sure that's what I'll do.
I agree with you, the Burgman 400 seems to give zero problems in ergonomics. It is heavy though. Gas mileage falls behind all the 300's. If Burgman is in consideration the other favorite (also of magazines) is the Yamaha TMax 500; the price is way up there, even used.
I was truly impressed with the handling and performance of the D/T300i on my test ride in comparison to all the others that I rode a while back, and my ONLY complaint is the seating position and the sliding forward on the seat. I can't really imaging doing over 1 hr on it without needing to get off...
BTW: "rider height" is not the issue, it is "leg inseam" or leg length. Seems 30" is still OK, 32" and up creates discomfort.
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I agree with you, the Burgman 400 seems to give zero problems in ergonomics. It is heavy though. Gas mileage falls behind all the 300's. If Burgman is in consideration the other favorite (also of magazines) is the Yamaha TMax 500; the price is way up there, even used.
I was truly impressed with the handling and performance of the D/T300i on my test ride in comparison to all the others that I rode a while back, and my ONLY complaint is the seating position and the sliding forward on the seat. I can't really imaging doing over 1 hr on it without needing to get off...
BTW: "rider height" is not the issue, it is "leg inseam" or leg length. Seems 30" is still OK, 32" and up creates discomfort.
How heavy are you and how what setting is your rear preload at?
I'm not sliding forward one bit, I was even sliding back with the preload at 2/5 (and I have a big topcase at the back).
The butt rest works fine for me.
Oh yeah, the Burgman 400 and Majesty 400 are about the same as DT300 regarding fuel consumption when all are stock.
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How heavy are you and how what setting is your rear preload at?
I'm not sliding forward one bit, I was even sliding back with the preload at 2/5 (and I have a big topcase at the back).
The butt rest works fine for me.
Oh yeah, the Burgman 400 and Majesty 400 are about the same as DT300 regarding fuel consumption when all are stock.
Since it was a "test drive" I did not check the preload. I assume it was on low or middle firm setting from the factory. For my butt the pseudo back rest is not good. The Grandvista had a similar BS and at least I could take it off, fixed the seat and now it is "aceptabe", not great.
The Bugman 400 and Majesty 400 do not get the same good gas milegae when compared 1:1 on the same road stretches and speeds as the D/T300i. The D/T300i should beat them by in average 10 mpg averasge, or about 15% as a rule of thumb when compared apples to apples. That makes perfectely sense based on a lighter scooter, less cc, and a more hp/cc engine = fuel efficiency right on paper.
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I'm asking because I've read so many DT reviews my head is spinning, and NONE, EVER.. mentioned the seat sloping
forward. The preload was probably jacked up all the way..
With my 90+kg (200lbs) and a topcase, at 2 out of 5 the seat slopes back, at 3/5 it's perfectly level.
But then again, most motorcycle seats slope forward to push your hands down on the bars, and I'm rather used to
that and don't even notice it much.
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I have a Yager and the seat is fine for a little while then you notice it feels hard
and it pushes you forward. I'm doing some radical surgery on it to make it more
comfortable. Check it out over in the Yager section.
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One other thing.
I've owned 3 new bikes, their seat gets softer as the miles pile on (and your
a$$ probably adjusts).
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Can you please explain how you cut the foam in the seat and made it still "tight? Or is the seat skin floppy now?
I trim the foam from underneath (side that hits the plastic pan) because it is really difficult to smooth out the foam on top. I replace the top vinyl, marine grade and look for something that is not 'slick'. There are sites that explain replacing/cutting motorcycle seats.
Its about a six inch drop from the passenger to the driver seat. This increases the forward slope and your inner thighs give no support while seated. I compensate (which is what I wanted) by moving around on the seat. I can ride it like a cruiser or sportbike, to me, the worst position (in town) is the prairie dog sit-up front position. I feel like I am jammed (arms) to far forward. I am 5'7" in shoes with a 30" inseam.
IMO, safest and maximum driver control, your arms should NOT be holding your weight. You have to unload the weight on your arms (time) to make quick control adjustments. At times I do place weight on my arms just to change position and feel (not in town).
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IMO, safest and maximum driver control, your arms should NOT be holding your weight. You have to unload the weight on your arms (time) to make quick control adjustments.
I wonder how guy in MotoGP manage to take corners then.
They seem rather quick at their control adjustments.
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I have a Grand Dink 125. I got out the ass-stop. Like this I have enough space for me. I am 181cm and 100kg. If the Downtown has a same space, it is okay...
I rode an Aprillia Sport Cube 300 last month. It was a nightmare. I sat on it like a little child-chair, and my arms hold my weight. I couldn't stretch my legs at all...
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No, the D/T300i doesn't have the same space. But only YOU can make the final decision.
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No, the D/T300i doesn't have the same space. But only YOU can make the final decision.
Less space then the Grand Dink??? But the DT is longer (2200 vs. 2055mm).
Anyway, worth to try... :D I dont't want an Xciting, that is way big to me... To commuting (for 30-40km daily) DT is the best IMHO.
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Less space then the Grand Dink??? But the DT is longer (2200 vs. 2055mm).
Anyway, worth to try... :D I dont't want an Xciting, that is way big to me... To commuting (for 30-40km daily) DT is the best IMHO.
The difference in size when parked next to each other, or when riding one after the other is virtually unnoticeable.
The difference in seating position and handlebars is the biggest one.
Did you know that DT has the pillion seat 2 inches longer then XC?
If the commuting is outside of town, the XC is more comfortable, better planted on the road, but
DT owns it when it comes to ease of use and flickability.
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Less space then the Grand Dink??? But the DT is longer (2200 vs. 2055mm).
Anyway, worth to try... :D I dont't want an Xciting, that is way big to me... To commuting (for 30-40km daily) DT is the best IMHO.
You asked "without butt stop". You can remove the butt stop on the G/V but not on the D/T, so there is the true difference.
Also, just how you can move the feet around on the G/V make is more comfortable on longer rides than on the D/T (my 32" inseam), and the G/V does not get the greatest rating there to start with! So it's very mixed feelings on the D/T. Short hauls OK, long hauls (1.5 hrs +) I don't know if one can stand it.
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What would be your offer?
The DT has the strongest engine in the category. Its size is good for the commuting. I won't touring a lot, i'm sure. The fuel consumption is fair. I don't want a bike with a car's apetite... :(
I don't know better option... I think there is no "perfect choice"..
In Budapest there is a motor-seat builer and designer, so maybe we can shape that seat if won't be okay.
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Agree, commuting no problem.
Very good engine and handling, and fuel consumption should be good too.
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In Budapest there is a motor-seat builer and designer, so maybe we can shape that seat if won't be okay.
That might be the best option. When the weather turns bad, and I can't ride, I think I'll do the same.
As for touring, it's fine for occasional stuff. I've done 5 three hour plus trips. The first one was grueling. Adding padding to the seat made a big difference for me. Leg room still isn't great, but not to where I wouldn't take it. I'm 5'11, 200lbs, with 32 inch inseam.
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I wonder how guy in MotoGP manage to take corners then.
They seem rather quick at their control adjustments.
/quote]
I am not a racer. They use the tank, buttstop, torso, brains involving a keen sense of balance when countersteering. They are also on a known race track.
Countersteering is quicker than waiting for the 'lean' to take effect.
Prove it to yourself. Empty road and make quick moves to right and left with and without weight holding your weight with your arms.
The big problem for normal people is that 'lean' is used and you have to 'think' to use countersteering.
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I had a SYM RV-250 and made the switch to a DT-300. Like others have stated, the DT seating is not the best for taller riders. I'm 6' 1" and I liked the RV-250 ride much better. I like the acceleration and overall handling of the DT a little better but would like to stretch out my legs. I've been on some longer rides (over 2 hrs) and it's not that bad. I do tend to slide forward during in town trips and especially so on bumpy roads. But for the price, gas mileage and performance, I really like the DT.
In an effort to improve my seating, I had the seat "adjusted" to give a little more room in the back. Despite gaining another inch, I'm still a little cramped...although I like how it looks. Here is the new seat with a comparison to the original one.
(http://clickherehosting.com/images/downtown1_thumb_new-seat.jpg) (http://clickherehosting.com/images/downtown1_new-seat.jpg)
(New seat)
(http://clickherehosting.com/images/downtown1_thumb.jpg) (http://clickherehosting.com/images/downtown1.jpg)
(Original seat)
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Thank you very much for your feedback and posting the pictures. Great job!
Eric
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Sweet! Thanks for sharing. I'm planning on the same thing before spring. Did they cutaway anything inside? I don't mind giving up inside storage for leg room. I'm hoping they can give me at least 2 inches. Where do you live? If you don't mind answering, how much did it cost?
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Sweet! Thanks for sharing. I'm planning on the same thing before spring. Did they cutaway anything inside? I don't mind giving up inside storage for leg room. I'm hoping they can give me at least 2 inches. Where do you live? If you don't mind answering, how much did it cost?
Yes yes give us some details PLS!!!
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I have a 300i DT. I was 6 ft. 2, 20 years ago, 220 lb.s I had to add 2 inches to seat for comfort and I cut the dome out of rear seat plastic, and I cut the top of seat back rest off,. then had 2 inches of new foam over it all,. to get 2 inches, added 4 inches of foam, now I can slid my butt all the way back, to where it is comfortable,. the foam is hard enough to not sag in the hole,. and you can still store a full face helmet in there, now I have full view over givi wind screen,. I will have to wait for spring to try out long hr.s of riding for comfort level,.
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Hi there,
I have a 2011 Downtown 300i & i'm 6'1", the only issue i've got is my pants r to short & my ankles get cold in the mornings (530am),but when your doing 110kph,it is quite cold.I'm from West Auckland,New Zealand.
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Get a pair of good motorcycle boots and have a pair of shoes ether at work to exchange, or with you....
If it's cold I always additionally tuck my pants into the boots, that keeps all the wind out and my ankles and legs warm.
Eric
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Those TUCANO URBANO LEG COVER's keep your legs toasty warm;
http://motocard.com/en/leg_covers/leg_cover-tucano_urbano-r065.aspx (http://motocard.com/en/leg_covers/leg_cover-tucano_urbano-r065.aspx)
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I was told this morning to put cycle pant clips on to stop the wind from going up my pant leg.it was 10 below 0 C. I was trying out the upper foot rests, and sliding my butt way back,. that did not last long , keeping gas tank full with 94 octane in case I cant ride for awhile, no ethenal, summer time I use 91 Octane, it is a good excuse to go for a ride into town,
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De Dee. where are you located? In -10C you are riding??? No fear of (black) ice? I hit that once and flew off the road, and never ride again under 2C/36F, because of that. Unless the road is 105% dry.
In those low temperatures you need a "windproof suit", even a cheap rain suit works very good. And you need boots and warm socks, toe and finger warmer patches (from ski store) work very well if you really want to stay comfortable. All other is not really working for a longer distance. How many km/miles do you ride one way in that cold weather?
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Im 79 years old , worked over 40 years outside bare hands on metal siding, all year , for riding I use leather work gloves insulated, from Princess auto. in ottawa on. canada my ride was 20 km. in to ottawa and about 30 km. , took long way, back roads home, just the tips of fingers were cold when I got home, my gean,s are insulated from Marks wearhouse next door to canadian tire, longer rides I would put on my leather pants over the gean s, the road was dry except for side streets they were icy,
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Compared to my usual ride (a ZX12) it is super comfortable except for the jarring from the rear suspension
I'm wondering how many folks in this thread realize that the ZX12 isn't a 12cc but rather a 1200cc super bike capable of 200 mph? lol.
What a contrast in rides! I spoke with a guy that had a buddy 125cc and I said it is nice to be able to get on the highway and that is why I like 250cc. He said he wouldn't know what to do with all the power of my scooter. I wonder what he would with the power of a ZX12? But I digress...
I have a Kymco 2005 GV 250cc and I wonder about the 300i It is dissapointing to learn that the seating is geared towards 5'7" because i'm 5'-10" and find my GV a little crowed but managable. It would be nice to have a little more power. I don't like the weight of the burgman 400 / and 600 scooters. Sometimes I think about the tmax.
PaulC
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that is what I like about the 300i DT. light Wt. 366 lb. T max about 500 lb. I would like to try the 300i gt for the 16 in. wheels and more foot room for my size 12.s so I am waiting for them to get to canada., would it have a lower center of gravity then the DT. easier to pick up if ever it laid down, ???
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I test drove the Yamaha TMax and the Kymco DT; they are two very different animals. Also they have different (used) prices, not speaking about new ones. It needs to be decided on true purpose IMO. Yes, the TMax is the much more sophisticated bike, but gets poor fuel mileage compared to the DT. All you want to do with the TMax you can do the DT, and also drive the same speed (even exceeding speed limits). The DT has its shortcoming with the seating position, that is a big plus for the TMax. Less weight and fantastic handling in city traffic speaks for the DT.