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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mike Green on October 20, 2012, 10:27:57 PM
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After the near death experience with the deer my wife has given me an ultimatum; either convert the XC500 to a trike or trade it in on a CanAm
Spyder. My feelings on this are ambivalent. I don't think an extra set of wheels would have made any difference, but she says that she would worry
less knowing I had the extra security. I want to continue to enjoy riding and if that will lessen her anxiety I'm willing to do it.
Any thoughts on this? Has anyone owned a trike or a Spyder? If so I would really appreciate your experience and/or imput.
Mike
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Two wheels in front feel so much safer. I have ridden many trikes, mostly VW conversions and they always scare me. Always feel like they will role over in a turn.
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I'm also looking at the Piaggio MP3 500. Any thoughts on tis one.
Mike
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"No vehicle is immune from deer, m'dear."
--my suggested response to the missus
.
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Two wheels in front feel so much safer. I have ridden many trikes,
X's 2!
Have a co-worker with a can am and she loves it, feels very secure but you don't get in the same small spaces as with a scoot. we work in a city and small spots are easy to get between cars on the street, with the can am she can't always get one if that matters to you. (just remembered, you may not have a choice so the 3 wheels with 2 in front is the way to go.)
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Have never ridden a CanAm spyder and probably never will. As already said deer will run in front of any thing. You can't stop living for something that may or may not happen again. You pays your money and takes your chances.
I rode this for several years. I was crazy for selling it.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/dlstewart01/scan0003.jpg)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/dlstewart01/scan0004-1.jpg)
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In a country with wide roads...maybe can be... but personally, I'd stick to 2 wheels. 2 wheels is fun!!!
You can explain to they wife that a three wheeled vehicle has it's share of "dangers" as well.
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After the near death experience with the deer my wife has given me an ultimatum; either convert the XC500 to a trike or trade it in on a CanAm
Spyder.
Did you ever ask her: Who are you to dictate what am I going to do with my life?
Especially if the given advice (in fact, demand!) is stupid. Trike XC500 would be far more dangerous than XC500. OK, CanAm has a lot of electronics inside to prevent sliding, but she is talking about things she has obviously no idea but has very strong unfounded opinions.
If she really wants to increase your personal safety and wellbeing, instead of ultimatums, she could buy you as a present new tires, performance brakes, airbag jacket, kevlar boots and life/injury insurance policy.
Here is a picture from presentation of CanAm in my county a few years ago. Electronics did not help, as you can see. http://dalje.com/hr-hrvatska/neslavno-predstavljanje-can-am-spyder-motora/253845 (http://dalje.com/hr-hrvatska/neslavno-predstavljanje-can-am-spyder-motora/253845)
As you can see I have zero tolerance for "my darling wifey told me I should be a good doggie and I am not allowed to <INSERT WHATEVER>". On this forum you can see this very often, even with a bit of pride on the dominated side?!?
Live and let live.
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.......and another thing Mr Green, if you fcuk up a perfectly good VW Beetle to make a poxy trike them me and you are finished. For good!
:P
Why not trade in the wife and keep the scoot? For the same expense the current Mrs Green costs to run i bet you could get a nice shiny new model which will out- perform the present Mrs Green in most, if not all, depts.
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Did you ever ask her: Who are you to dictate what am I going to do with my life?
Especially if the given advice (in fact, demand!) is stupid. Trike XC500 would be far more dangerous than XC500. OK, CanAm has a lot of electronics inside to prevent sliding, but she is talking about things she has obviously no idea but has very strong unfounded opinions.
If she really wants to increase your personal safety and wellbeing, instead of ultimatums, she could buy you as a present new tires, performance brakes, airbag jacket, kevlar boots and life/injury insurance policy.
Here is a picture from presentation of CanAm in my county a few years ago. Electronics did not help, as you can see. http://dalje.com/hr-hrvatska/neslavno-predstavljanje-can-am-spyder-motora/253845 (http://dalje.com/hr-hrvatska/neslavno-predstavljanje-can-am-spyder-motora/253845)
As you can see I have zero tolerance for "my darling wifey told me I should be a good doggie and I am not allowed to <INSERT WHATEVER>". On this forum you can see this very often, even with a bit of pride on the dominated side?!?
Live and let live.
Take it easy axy....
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Did you ever ask her: Who are you to dictate what am I going to do with my life?
Especially if the given advice (in fact, demand!) is stupid. Trike XC500 would be far more dangerous than XC500. OK, CanAm has a lot of electronics inside to prevent sliding, but she is talking about things she has obviously no idea but has very strong unfounded opinions.
If she really wants to increase your personal safety and wellbeing, instead of ultimatums, she could buy you as a present new tires, performance brakes, airbag jacket, kevlar boots and life/injury insurance policy.
Here is a picture from presentation of CanAm in my county a few years ago. Electronics did not help, as you can see. http://dalje.com/hr-hrvatska/neslavno-predstavljanje-can-am-spyder-motora/253845 (http://dalje.com/hr-hrvatska/neslavno-predstavljanje-can-am-spyder-motora/253845)
As you can see I have zero tolerance for "my darling wifey told me I should be a good doggie and I am not allowed to <INSERT WHATEVER>". On this forum you can see this very often, even with a bit of pride on the dominated side?!?
Live and let live.
Whle I get your humorous point I'd bet his wife is speaking from an emotional view point. 3 whells (2 in frontt) are better (IMO) then just 2 but are still risky. You do raise great points though about protective gear, I'd use her concern to pick up a few items you mentioned for sure.
A wife in my life is a "partner" and has a right to point out obvious weak points in things I do and vise versa. We have to bear in mind that our actions effect not only ourselves but those that are tied to us, including our spouses and children with a ripple effect going to our spouses family's when it come to possible support issues.
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Just sayin................ ::)
Three wheelers with one wheel in front are prone to an under-steer condition, where inertia overcomes the traction of the front wheel during a turn, causing the vehicle to continue tracking in a straight line instead of in the desired direction. Conversely, three wheelers with a single rear wheel tend to experience over steer, where the vehicle tends to lose traction in the rear during a turn, causing the rear of the vehicle to slide towards the outside of a turn, sometimes resulting in a spin.
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I hear ya about the partner and all, but in the end you will just buy another scoot after youre severely disappointed with the reverse trike or trike. Save money and buy the extra stuff like axy suggested rather than just have to get use to a new ride and possibly end up worse.
Deers arent going to look out because of an extra wheel also, its just common sense over no sense on that one. If you cant talk sense into her you may as well give up and roll over I guess. Im not married for more than one reason.
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Take it easy axy....
I'm easy like Sunday morning...
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I'm easy like Sunday morning...
... and cool as the other side of the pillow.
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A friend shot himself in the head, bullet penetrated the skin, did not enter the skull, detoured, exited at the other side...he's still alive... my point? If it's your time to go, it's your time... If it's not, no matter what you do to end your life, you will not succeed.... You can trade your scoot for a three or four or even a sixteen wheeler, it doesnt matter, If it's your time to go it's your time.... Mike, the deer was there, and your angels were there, those things happened for a reason...a reason only you can comprehend....
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Thanks for everyone's comments. 08, you really struck a chord with me. "Partnership" is a central component in a good marriage IMO. My wife and I also consider ourselves to be best friends. We have been for over thirty years. My wife is an athlete. She plays on the community women's tennis team and is going to Gulf Shores to the finals. She usually wins. A few years ago she ran a marathon in Bermuda for Leukemia benefit and finished with the middle group. She runs a 5k or 7k every weekend and wins in her age group. My point is my wife is no sissy. She was really traumatized by this wreck. The day after, she broke down with severe shingles; a direct stress response. Now we both know that an extra wheel is not going to stop collisions with critters. The deer ran out in front of me and was frozen by my lights. I locked up my brakes and then you know the rest. IMO I believe the money would be better spent on a scoot with ABS. So if a three wheeled vehicle will allow me to continue to do what I love to do and lessen my wife's anxiety, I'll do it. ATGATT is my mantra and if i had not been wearing good quality PPE I would not have survived. The only thing I can think of adding to my ensemble would be chest armour. Broken ribs hurt. Once again thanks 08 for your words. You are obviously a good husband and father. I want to truly apologize to you if I offended you the other day. Sometimes you have this exagerated naive cuirosity that's fun to mess with but no harm intended. Thanks, your Kymco brother Mike.
P.S. Axy, try "date night", we do dinner, movie, play, every Friday night schedules permitted. If this does not work I'm sure you know a good divorce lawyer.
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Mike thank you for your kind words, I was going to PM you half way thorugh reading your above post, then I got to your heart felt apology. You are absolutly correct about my naive way and the dumb questions I can ask, now that I know you never intended to be hurtful Ifeel that much better about moving forward.
I never let one thread carry over into other threads hence my reply about "partnership". I'll go back now and remove my dumbassed comments towards you, sorry I over reacted.
Also glad your OK, take care of the Mrs. My Mom has shingles and they are painfull to say the least, get treatment ASAP and you'll have far better results.
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My reactions and/or over reactions primarily depend on whether or not i've taken my hypertension meds... ;D ;D ;D Things that were not present during my younger days....
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Thanks for everyone's comments. 08, you really struck a chord with me. "Partnership" is a central component in a good marriage IMO. My wife and I also consider ourselves to be best friends. We have been for over thirty years. My wife is an athlete. She plays on the community women's tennis team and is going to Gulf Shores to the finals. She usually wins. A few years ago she ran a marathon in Bermuda for Leukemia benefit and finished with the middle group. She runs a 5k or 7k every weekend and wins in her age group. My point is my wife is no sissy. She was really traumatized by this wreck. The day after, she broke down with severe shingles; a direct stress response.
I am not joking, all you said clearly shows her underlying inability to cope with even slightest hint of stress. She would be better off with a few shrink sessions and it would certainly spare you from wasting your money and buying even more unsafe vehicle. Once again, I would be very worried if I was told what to do in form of ultimatum by someone I live with. Marathon runner/tennis player or not, I would show the good lady where the exit door is. Less pain in the long run.
However, YMMV.
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I am not joking, all you said clearly shows her underlying inability to cope with even slightest hint of stress. She would be better off with a few shrink sessions and it would certainly spare you from wasting your money and buying even more unsafe vehicle. Once again, I would be very worried if I was told what to do in form of ultimatum by someone I live with. Marathon runner/tennis player or not, I would show the good lady where the exit door is. Less pain in the long run.
However, YMMV.
I won't attempt to answer for Mike and I don't know what YMMV means but my guess is that you are not old enough or are single. I don't think Mike's wife would have left him in an attempt to win her way just that she was showing Mike how important he is to her. The fact that Mike's wife cannot take stress is no reason to add more stress to her life. Mike's wife in this case my not be thinking completely logicly but that is how she is wired and that is part of what Mike loves about her.
Mike is not a kid and I suspect neither is his wife, who wants to see a person you've spent most of your life with laying in a hospital bed or even worse, dead over somethung she preceives as preventable.
My wife has expressed to me her concerns about my riding, not as drasticly as in Mike's case but I'm sue that would all change if I had to lay down my bike for any reason. I'd be hard pressed to go against her reasoning too, life is too short to be sending it in a hospital bed. I currently have little protective gear, a full face helmet and good gloves along with reflective vest. I should wear some other things to protect me in case of a fall. If all I drove was 25 mph or so I wouldn't have many worries but much of the time I'm at 45 mph and even higher, a fall could spell the end.
In short our actions have far reaching effects. If I were killed there goes my daughters college funding, our summer home, the boat, maybe even one of our investment properties or in other words part of our retierment income. My wife would make it through but things would change, and my daughter would suffer greatly having to be raised in a single parent family, partners have a say.Sorry for being so long winded.
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I won't attempt to answer for Mike and I don't know what YMMV means but my guess is that you are not old enough or are single.
"Your Mileage May Vary".
I am 38 and not single. The person I live with also drives Kymco, as I have stated many times on this forum I do not know when is one "old enough".
As for riding a motorcycle or scooter, "Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car."
Undertaking risk is a matter of personal choice, of course.
Btw. we all die, sooner or later, so it is better for our significant others, families, friends etc. to get a grasp on that unpleasant concept. Nobody has ever survived life.
If someone is bothered by all this, forget the wifey - p. whipped story and just concentrate on the fact that moving to trike from scooter in order to increase survival rate on the road would be similar to receiving 7.62 bullet in your head instead of high velocity 5.56 hoping for less damage.
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Well, the mileage on Green's Kymco is less than 200, and he's already dropped it on either side, and then dumped it with an improper reaction to a traffic hazard, resulting in serious injury.
Since he lives in a forest full of deer and rabbits and foxes, he should get a 4 wheeled all terrain vehicle and stay off paved roads and below speeds of 25 miles per hour.
Kymco makes nice ATVs.
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Just keep the scoot, double up the life insurance policy value on yourself and keep on riding.
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"Your Mileage May Vary".
I am 38 and not single. The person I live with also drives Kymco, as I have stated many times on this forum I do not know when is one "old enough".
As for riding a motorcycle or scooter, "Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car."
Undertaking risk is a matter of personal choice, of course.
Btw. we all die, sooner or later, so it is better for our significant others, families, friends etc. to get a grasp on that unpleasant concept. Nobody has ever survived life.
If someone is bothered by all this, forget the wifey - p. whipped story and just concentrate on the fact that moving to trike from scooter in order to increase survival rate on the road would be similar to receiving 7.62 bullet in your head instead of high velocity 5.56 hoping for less damage.
Your disposition to life is not one that is shared by all, maybe half but certainly not all. I'd like to know what the numbers are for 3 wheeled veh. vs 2 and then 2 fronts vs 2 rear. (thanks for posting the numbers you have)
While it's true we don't survive life we can prepare ourselves to survive it longer or in better tact with a few modifications, if you can buy a better car for added protection in an accident (more air bags, antilock brakes etc) why not get a bike that offers greater stability?
If Mike in fact has 200 iles on his scoot and has put it down twice or more maybe a scoot is not for him, Mike can you confirm this?
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You gotta learn sometime, first scooter I had was a battle scooter that probably spent more time on the ground or falling over than upright. Ghost riding that bitch wasnt a negative thing it was a fun past time.
Either way its not being P whipped to listen to the advice of your spouse. I think marriage is different from dating in about.. oh say a billion ways. I can never understand why someone would want to do it but hey to each their own.
But honestly in the end 2 or 3 wheels seriously wont help you if you dont maneuver correctly. What is the extra security in someones mind if it still results the same way.
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You gotta learn sometime, first scooter I had was a battle scooter that probably spent more time on the ground or falling over than upright. Ghost riding that bitch wasnt a negative thing it was a fun past time.
Either way its not being P whipped to listen to the advice of your spouse. I think marriage is different from dating in about.. oh say a billion ways. I can never understand why someone would want to do it but hey to each their own.
But honestly in the end 2 or 3 wheels seriously wont help you if you dont maneuver correctly. What is the extra security in someones mind if it still results the same way.
+1 from me. I came off 4x in my 1st year of riding scoots, learned something every time from it.
On the stability 08, 3 wheelers tend to have a less stability due to most having a higher centre of gravity. I know a guy locally (i say hello to him) who bought one of the Piaggio 3 wheelers after a dealer advised him that would be great for his needs as he is a little older. After 3-4 months of riding it he had enough and sold it for a huge loss but was happy to see tne back of it he said. "Performance"(or lack of it) was the major issue for him, he said it seriously lacked power.
Personally i like the VW trikes but have also seen 2 of these "flip" over from a standing start by the front coming right off the ground and over the top :o
If you def had to give up 2 wheels for some reason i would consider an ATV/Quad but i think i would prob end up buying an open top small sports car instead tbh :-\
As for wives/death............ Like Axy says we all die at some point, its not something that ever really crosses my mind tho. If i considered the risk involved in my everyday activities i would end up staying in bed all day. Am accident is just an unexpected occurance, unexpected being the key word, and since you cant really prepare for the unexpected you just have to deal with it at the time. sh** happens no matter how safe or protected you are or feel. The stress and worry will likely kill you sooner than the actual incident if you spend time worrying about it all every day, so i dont.
And the wife gave up giving me advice years ago, now she just lets me do as i want and shakes her head or laughs at me if it all goes wrong, fair trade off in my book and hers ;D
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In Germany, riders of motorbikes experience 0.055 - 0.075 letal accidents per million kilometres travelled or 0.017 - 0.023 per 100 bikes owned (years >=2005, statistical bureau).
Even if you are an excessive rider or collector, you will probably die another death.
(Numbers for 50cc are ~1/3 of motorbikes, even bicycles are not without any danger).
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Well, the mileage on Green's Kymco is less than 200, and he's already dropped it on either side, and then dumped it with an improper reaction to a traffic hazard, resulting in serious injury.
Since he lives in a forest full of deer and rabbits and foxes, he should get a 4 wheeled all terrain vehicle and stay off paved roads and below speeds of 25 miles per hour.
Kymco makes nice ATVs.
I did not know that he dropped it twice and had serious injury, all in few 00 kms.
Could be EXTREMELY bad luck, if not, maybe it would be better to skip anything else than a car.
I have two ATVs. I would NEVER recommend them as a road transport vehicle, EVER.
I think that ATVs are the most dangerous vehicles on the road. Absolultely most dangerous.
Whoever tried to drive them, knows why I am saying this. Driving ATV that has 20-40 hp on balloon offroad tires inflated at 0.8-0.9 bar is close to having an accident in virtually EVERY corner. There are infinitely more ways to go off the road in every corner than go through them.
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Your disposition to life is not one that is shared by all, maybe half but certainly not all. I'd like to know what the numbers are for 3 wheeled veh. vs 2 and then 2 fronts vs 2 rear. (thanks for posting the numbers you have)
I hope that you know at least something about transmission and traction. "Three wheels" does not mean much. For example, one wheel can be in the front and two in the back or vice versa. Three wheeled ATVs were banned in USA in 1988 and the ban is still on, guess why?
Conversion of the bike or addition of the passenger side-car can be done in a way that the traction is only on the rear wheel of the bike, or on the entire rear axle. With or without differential. If the traction is only on the bike side wheel, when you add throttle, the bike will turn into the curve on the opposite side of the steering and vice versa. It requires great skill to drive a side-car motorcycle with single wheel traction. Three wheeled vehicles have different handling depending on the rear suspension, solid axle or independent. Also, if there is no differential on the driven axle, both wheels will turn at the same speed, and the vehicle tends to turn over easily in the curve, especially on vehicles with under inflated tires. Ask me how I know.
If a guy drops the scoot twice and overreacts once in few 00 kms, I would recommend wholeheartedly a monthly bus ticket and good insurance policy, not even more dangerous vehicle.
Under all circumstances and for all purposes, give me two wheeled vehicle over 3 wheeled vehicle in any configuration, and in any hazardous situation I might encounter on the road.
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Thanks for all the wisdom out there. Mrs. Green received 3 different medals/commendations from ,(I'm sorry Streido), HRM The Queen for valor as she served in the Australian Army as a field Nurse in Viet Nam so she has dealt with major stressors during her life. I'm very serious when I report that I came very close to being killed in this damn wreck and it scared the sh**e out of both of us. Now I'm 64 and made a decision to hang up my spurs this year due to back surgeries. I still own two horses but no longer ride. Except for bicycles as a kid I've never ridden a two wheel device in my life but I was determined to master this scooter and found that I really love riding. From day one I taught myself and did drop it twice along the way. Vivo and Zombie taught me to trust my left side and I became proficient with right turns. Unfortunately not so with emergency stops at high speed. MSF certification pending. The XC500Ri has 980 miles on it spread out over the year from when I bought it new last January. Thanks again for your comments, suggestions.
Mike
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Mike I've no idea what you've been taught by the other members and I'm no riding expert but I'll share what I do when learning and maybe you can take something from it and go forward from there (maybe not).
Try running in a safe place, maybe a mall parking lot late at night or early in the AM, start out at 5 MPH and do an emergency stop, once you feel comfortable with how you do, move up to 10 MPH and repeat, repeat, repeat until your again comfortable. Your old enough not to worry about what the onlookers may think or say, you may even draw the attention of an expreianced rider and get a few lessons.
Once your up to running at 40 MPH and higgher and doing emergency stops ruteenly (spelling) practice them once in awhile for the hell of it. This is how I taught myself to drive in the snow and ice and I've yet to have 1 accident, owned an outdoor parking lot for 16 years driving all type of cars/trucks front wheel drive rear wheel drive 4 wheel anit slip no anti slip.
I hope your near death exp. didn't injure you to badly and in no time you'll be back on the horse scooting away. Sounds to me you've got a great deal to live for and to go home to so do ride safe.
Dave (08)
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Thanks Dave, some good advice. I had planned to take the MSF beginner's in Sept. but these injuries got in the way. Will do that ASAP. I do live in a rural area with limited traffic and a state park backed up to my back property. I was able to start riding down to the parking lots and boat ramps in the park and practice practice practice. After I had some confidence I would drive down to Lowe's and WalMart and ride in their traffick and parking lots. After about six months of this I started riding in the Jasmine Hills and Harogate Springs area which was primarily rural hills and twisties and I was having a ball. Just stayed out too late on the Friday night of Sept 07 and it was pitch dark and that's when I ran into Bambi and I admit it, I panicked and braked with all my strength and locked up and flipped the scoot.
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There is one another problem with scooters, not discussed on forums. They are not the best vehicles for emergency stops.
Anything above 25-30 mph and they tend not to stop or slide in a straight line, but the front wheel tends to slide sideways and you're on the ground.
This effect is even worse in wet.
It is quite terrible on my P250S. When I mentioned that, I got some advices like this was my first scooter: check the tires, check the rims, check the wheel alignment... all this is in perfect condition. I think the problem is in combination of poor suspension and brake components used on ALL scooters compared to motorcycles, weight composition between axles and the fact that engine/transmission do not weigh equally on the sides of horizontal axis, so in case of wheels locking, it tends to pull more on one side. This phenomenon was very noticeable with standard Vespas.
Anyway, I was quite disappointed with this fact and my (then) new P250S, so I have adopted different driving style, keeping more distance and lowering speed. I do not joke when I say that I drive P250S in wet like I drove Piaggio Beverly IN SNOW. It has so poor suspension and braking characteristics.
Even the cheapest motorcycles are better in that regard than the best scooters. I would prefer emergency stop with motorcycle any day compared to a scooter, not to mention the ability to change direction better than scooters etc.
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Even the cheapest motorcycles are better in that regard than the best scooters.
Sorry, but you probably haven't tried a Royal Enfield (*) vs. BMW C600/Honda Integra/Yamaha Tmax 530/...
(*) A German friend has 2 (practically unusable) RE Taurus. Now discountinued, but RE Bullet & Co are still in production.
Honda India motorcycles have >50% market share! For sure not because Royal Enfield, Bajaj & Co are reliable and safe.
I would always prefer a modern japanese scooter to the motorcycles I drove in India.
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The best thing you can do Mike is to book a few hours lessons with a qualified instructor. He will help find any flaws you have in your riding and point them out to you, showing you how to fix it and ride safer. I thought i was a pretty good rider till i took my day traing ciurse a few months ago, some of it was boring stuff i knew already but other things i learned could well save my life in the future, best £100 i ever spent on a scoot related item.
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Sorry, but you probably haven't tried a Royal Enfield (*) vs. BMW C600/Honda Integra/Yamaha Tmax 530/...
(*) A German friend has 2 (practically unusable) RE Taurus. Now discountinued, but RE Bullet & Co are still in production.
Honda India motorcycles have >50% market share! For sure not because Royal Enfield, Bajaj & Co are reliable and safe.
I would always prefer a modern japanese scooter to the motorcycles I drove in India.
Sorry, but I was not even considering in my post what is driven east of Turkey. ;D
Royal Enfield or Bajaj are not exactly common in Europe or USA, so we can skip that part of the story. I am referring to brand name Western scoots compared to brand name Western motorcycles (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawa), even in lower displacements like 500 or 600.
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Sorry, but I was not even considering in my post what is driven east of Turkey. ;D
Royal Enfield or Bajaj are not exactly common in Europe or USA, so we can skip that part of the story. I am referring to brand name Western scoots compared to brand name Western motorcycles (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawa), even in lower displacements like 500 or 600.
Larger Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha scoots are poor compared to cycles?
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Main difference between a CVT using ANYTHING and ANYTHING with a manual gear box is the fact you can down shift to slow down with a geared drive, you hit the brakes on your CVT transmission anything it goes to a "neutral" like state of where the onset and offset of the front drive gear is lower which cause the belt to do a "rubber band" like effect. Therefore there isnt really any extra engine braking that will help, or far inferior engine torquing than needed for quick stops.
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Also for the record Bajaj are by far the biggest hunks of poo Ive ever had an unfortunate fate to come across. I had a Bajaj Legend 4 speed that was like shifting a mack truck, crunch crunch crunch slam finally I have 1st gear. 20 slams on the floor board for 2nd, 3 and 4th like butter?!? Mine had 136 kms when I got it, had 1100 when I gave it to a kid I wished ill.
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I can stick up for the Axy post about the People 250. It's like trying to stop a charging elephant by pulling back on the ears. It is all over the place. My Super 8 on the other hand, even with rear drum brakes, is much better in a fast stop. I can do a controlled high speed skid to stop on a gravel road. If I tried that with my People 250 I would be picking up plastic scooter body parts scattered down the street. Some scoots are so top heavy and have a poor suspension set up it is almost to hard for anyone to control.
It is not my poor riding skills either. I used to race x-country enduro on my KTM and did a bit of trials with an old Bultaco 350.
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Larger Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha scoots are poor compared to cycles?
Take any 600 cc bike and try emergency stop or "deer avoiding" maneouvre versus any 500-600 scoot, at 50 mph, and let me know what happens...
YES. They are CRAP compared to motorcycles.
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I can stick up for the Axy post about the People 250. It's like trying to stop a charging elephant by pulling back on the ears. It is all over the place. My Super 8 on the other hand, even with rear drum brakes, is much better in a fast stop. I can do a controlled high speed skid to stop on a gravel road. If I tried that with my People 250 I would be picking up plastic scooter body parts scattered down the street. Some scoots are so top heavy and have a poor suspension set up it is almost to hard for anyone to control.
It is not my poor riding skills either. I used to race x-country enduro on my KTM and did a bit of trials with an old Bultaco 350.
Finally somebody who understands what I am talking about.
I would take handling, suspension and stopping ability of Piaggio NRG 50 over P250S ANY TIME!
I wonder what is the purpose of the second disc in front, to pay double for the pads probably... it locks after applying 25 % of braking force anway.
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Balance and weight distribution....
The GSX-Rs, Rs, CBRs are backed up with pure racing technology/engineering. Everything is considered in designing these machines for public consumption. There are reasons why the fairings are shaped as such, why they placed the pipes at such places, engine placement, brakes, stands, etc. That is the main reason why these nice motorcycles handle very good.
As to scooters... ??? What? gy6 technology? 10-inch wheels? What...? My Super 8 looks good ,yes, but the wind drag is awful... All scooters have most of the weight at the rear...hmmm what else...
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The NC700D "must" behave worse than the NC700S, because the "D" is called a scooter. (Although everything from tire over frame to 6-speed double clutch transmission is exactly the same, only fairings and wind shield differ.) Just the name makes the physical driving characteristics.
Professional riders who tested the C600 (*) and Tmax 530 "must" be wrong, because the didn't realize they speak about "only scooters".
And I was wrong with the HD Sporty - what a superb bike that was and just I couldn't realize its potential. ;)
(*) Stop from 100kph in 39m - many ABS motorcycles need >40m.
Yes, they are better race bikes which can stop even faster. But to say every scooter is worse than every motorcycle is imho just: bullsh**.
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Except for bicycles as a kid I've never ridden a two wheel device in my life but I was determined to master this scooter and found that I really love riding.
It's harder to learn when you're older and its harder still to learn on a larger machine like a 500 maxi-scooter.
As for all the BS in this tread about scooter-v-motorcycle braking characteristics I had quite a chuckle about that.
I'll take a modern scooter with ABS over a bike without ABS any day of the week.
(not all scooters and not all bikes are created equal)
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You can chuckle, call bullsh** as much as you want, both of you.
Also you can mention Third World Bajajs, hybrid scoot-motorcycle models or compare scooters with ABS versus motorcycles without ABS. (there are motorcycles with ABS too, you know), also as much as you want.
Unlike most people here who can barely keep their scooter upright, I have been driving daily through rain, snow and wind all my scooters and motorcycles, and scooters and motorcycles of my friends, so I guess I have a say here.
While you are there, study a bit angles of the steering and front wheel of an average naked or sports tourer and weight distribution in comparison to any scooter, wheelbase, tire quality, tire profile. While you are there, take a look at usual three way adjustable front and rear suspension of average sports or naked tourer and compare it to average scooter's "it is good that there is ANY suspension at all" suspension, brakes and tires. Take a look at material used for brake discs, heat dissipation pattern, brake pads and number of pistons.
Maybe, JUST MAYBE, you will understand why with sports bike or naked tourer you will be able to stop or swerve and with scooter you will end up with parts down the road, as one member just said.
Also, account for the fact that 250 cc scoot weighs as much as 600 cc sports bike while all 500 cc scoots exceed the weight of all big bore 1300 cc naked tourers!
Mega scoots 700+ cc are usualy 60+ kg heavier than the heaviest big borers, further diminishing their performance in curves and braking distances.
Now I am expecting manic searching for scooter that has 2-way adjustable rear suspension or something like that, to prove that I am wrong. Or comparing 50 cc Chinese motorcycle with 800 cc top end scooter. Go ahead.
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Maybe, JUST MAYBE, you will understand why with sports bike or naked tourer you will be able to stop or swerve and with scooter you will end up with parts down the road, as one member just said.
So motorbikes never crash through over enthusiastic braking.
Glad we've cleared that one up.
Funny Motorcycle Stoppie Accident (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5qnfCO8ra4#ws)
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So motorbikes never crash through over enthusiastic braking.
Glad we've cleared that one up.
Funny Motorcycle Stoppie Accident (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5qnfCO8ra4#ws)
Not being able to understand written text or to view at things using an appropriate context is your personal problem, not mine.
Also, childish oversimplification and inherent inability to reach valid conclusions using available information or logic.
I think I've said enough and gave enough information for further reading.
Smear some sea foam on the tires, they will stick better...
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Take any 600 cc bike and try emergency stop or "deer avoiding" maneouvre versus any 500-600 scoot, at 50 mph, and let me know what happens...
YES. They are CRAP compared to motorcycles.
Thanks, something I was very unaware of, I figured quality came with higher end products from better companies. Not to say that the scoots I mention aren't better then say a smaller model but not when compared with a "real/true" motorcycle.
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Not being able to understand written text or to view at things using an appropriate context is your personal problem, not mine.
Also, childish oversimplification and inherent inability to reach valid conclusions using available information or logic.
I think I've said enough and gave enough information for further reading.
Smear some sea foam on the tires, they will stick better...
To make such sweeping generalisations as you have is simply laughable.
You should really learn to take yourself less seriously.
Maybe then you would see when a joke is being shared with you.
Maybe you just don't like having your leg pulled?
Braking performance varies from one machine to the next and whether the thing stays upright or not is more to do with rider skill than anything, well apart from whether or not it is fitted with ABS.
NO rider can outperform ABS.
During a panic braking situation as described in this thread, any current modern scooter with ABS is far more likely to stay upright in the hands of an inexperienced rider than a super-duper spurtbike with the best non-ABS brakes money can buy.
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Don't pay axy any attention. He thinks hes superior to every one else.
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Smear some sea foam on the tires, they will stick better...
:D :D :D LMAO, Axy's got his mojo back i see.......... ;)
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Don't pay axy any attention. He thinks hes superior to every one else.
Read this thread once again, "old geezer", count all facts I have outlined and count all bullsh** that cannot be proven from the other side.
Scooters have crappy suspension, crappy brakes, crappy touring tires, crappy steering geometry and consequentially, crappy handling and braking, compared to similar displacement bikes.
Period.
PERIOD.
And yes, very often, I am superior to most people, it depends on the situation, and here it seems it is not a difficult task.
Thanks for your patience.
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:D :D :D LMAO, Axy's got his mojo back i see.......... ;)
Seems that it should go everywhere around here as an universal cure, why not on tires or bread instead of butter... :)
Might scare deers away too. ;)
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Don't break your arm patting your self on the back bucko. You are just another so called internet expert. ::)
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Don't break your arm patting your self on the back bucko. You are just another so called internet expert. ::)
Unlike me, be a practical expert for us, slam the brakes on your scooter with excellent suspension and brakes at, let's say, measly 40 mph and let us know what happened.
I see that with all that experience, and excellent P250S, this will be no problem for you at all.
Of course, under dry conditions.
When they scrape you off the tarmac and you get back from the hospital with your shiny new cast and fixators, share your experience with us and tell us why did that happen.
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When they scrape you off the tarmac and you get back from the hospital with your shiny new cast and fixators, share your experience with us and tell us why did that happen.
Was it the Seafoam? ;D
Everyones always fcuking getting into petty, stupid arguements here lately over naff all, beginning to piss me off. Lighten up folks, please. Or stop taking the drugs, theyre not helping you. If you have stopped taking the drugs then get back on them quick!
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I have an S 250 and have never had a problem with panic braking. Could be my 54 years of riding experience. Sorry your results may be different.
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I have an S 250 and have never had a problem with panic braking. Could be my 54 years of riding experience. Sorry your results may be different.
I hope for you that you will never realize what I am talking about because you might not be around to share your experience.
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I ride much more conservative than I did in my younger days. And I am way past the age to die young so I'm not worried. Thanks anyway.
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AXY,
I take much of the info you offered as good solid advice that won't hurt me to follow, however I think you have to come up with number of wrecks per 100,000 motorcycles owned vs. 100,000 scooters owned to see which realy is the worse one to operate and also do so in a first world country as we know many parts of Asia is just teaming with scoots in disrepair.
Also other members have as much exp. on a bike as yourself and may have other findings. (I'm not one of them) You have to step back and look in that mirror once in awhile.
Just sayin' (08)
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AXY,
I take much of the info you offered as good solid advice that won't hurt me to follow, however I think you have to come up with number of wrecks per 100,000 motorcycles owned vs. 100,000 scooters owned to see which realy is the worse one to operate
First, I am not a bureau of statistics. Second, this kind of statistics might not be publicly available. Third, they do not follow "wrecks", but usually they are divided as accidents with more or less serious consequences, or with fatalities. Fourth, number of "wrecks" per 100.000 motorcycles owned does not say anything. 100.000 motorcycles are comprised of sports bikes used on tracks or weekend-fun at high speed, nakeds or tourers used for driving or Asia/Africa daily commuters. 100.000 scooters might be comprised of people who drive them instead of cafe racers or as a first/last two wheeler in their lives. Everybody who knows anything about statistical analysis knows how meaningless would such a comparison be.
Finally, fatalities per miles covered would be slightly better indicator, but not much better.
Average speed for motorcycles is much higher than for scooters, even in the same displacement class.
Do you understand how pointless and scientifically unfounded your idea is?
According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) riders of high-performance racing motorcycles, called “supersports†have driver death rates per 10,000 registered vehicles nearly four times higher than for drivers of other types of motorcycles. Supersports have more horsepower than conventional motorcycles and can reach speeds of up to 190 mph. They are built on racing platforms and are modified for street use. The bikes are popular with riders under the age of 30.
In 2005, these bikes registered 22.5 driver deaths per 10,000 registered vehicles, compared with 10.7 deaths for other sport models. Standards, cruisers and touring bikes, with upright handlebars, had rates of 5.7 and 6.5 per 10,000 vehicles. In 2005, supersports accounted for 9 percent of registrations, and standards and cruisers made up 51 percent of registrations.
Speeding and driver error were bigger factors in supersport and sport fatal crashes. Speed was cited in 57 percent of supersport riders’ fatal crashes in 2005 and in 46 percent for sport model riders. Speed was a factor in 27 of fatal crashes of riders of cruisers and standards, and for 22 percent of riders of touring models.
Number of Deaths for Every 10,000 Registered Motorcycles in 2005, by Type of MotorcycleType of Motorcycle Deaths per 10,000 Registered Motorcycles
Cruise 5.7
Touring 6.5
Sport 10.7
Supersport 22.5
This information means NOTHING, as 10.000 registered motorcycles can cover 10.000 miles per year of 10 billion miles per year.
Also, statistics usually do not distinguish between motorcycles and scooter, and especially not for vehicles with displacement > 50 cc.
I will stop here.
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First, I am not a bureau of statistics. Second, this kind of statistics might not be publicly available. Third, they do not follow "wrecks", but usually they are divided as accidents with more or less serious consequences, or with fatalities. Fourth, number of "wrecks" per 100.000 motorcycles owned does not say anything. 100.000 motorcycles are comprised of sports bikes used on tracks or weekend-fun at high speed, nakeds or tourers used for driving or Asia/Africa daily commuters. 100.000 scooters might be comprised of people who drive them instead of cafe racers or as a first/last two wheeler in their lives. Everybody who knows anything about statistical analysis knows how meaningless would such a comparison be.
Finally, fatalities per miles covered would be slightly better indicator, but not much better.
Average speed for motorcycles is much higher than for scooters, even in the same displacement class.
Do you understand how pointless and scientifically unfounded your idea is?
According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) riders of high-performance racing motorcycles, called “supersports†have driver death rates per 10,000 registered vehicles nearly four times higher than for drivers of other types of motorcycles. Supersports have more horsepower than conventional motorcycles and can reach speeds of up to 190 mph. They are built on racing platforms and are modified for street use. The bikes are popular with riders under the age of 30.
In 2005, these bikes registered 22.5 driver deaths per 10,000 registered vehicles, compared with 10.7 deaths for other sport models. Standards, cruisers and touring bikes, with upright handlebars, had rates of 5.7 and 6.5 per 10,000 vehicles. In 2005, supersports accounted for 9 percent of registrations, and standards and cruisers made up 51 percent of registrations.
Speeding and driver error were bigger factors in supersport and sport fatal crashes. Speed was cited in 57 percent of supersport riders’ fatal crashes in 2005 and in 46 percent for sport model riders. Speed was a factor in 27 of fatal crashes of riders of cruisers and standards, and for 22 percent of riders of touring models.
Number of Deaths for Every 10,000 Registered Motorcycles in 2005, by Type of MotorcycleType of Motorcycle Deaths per 10,000 Registered Motorcycles
Cruise 5.7
Touring 6.5
Sport 10.7
Supersport 22.5
This information means NOTHING, as 10.000 registered motorcycles can cover 10.000 miles per year of 10 billion miles per year.
Also, statistics usually do not distinguish between motorcycles and scooter, and especially not for vehicles with displacement > 50 cc.
I will stop here.
You say it all means nothing yet you post tons of it? In posts past you have handed out numbers to support your stance, why if they mean nothing?
I/we have you on one hand saying how bad scoots are as compared with regular/real motor cycles and we have "OLD" with ;oads of time at the handle bars saying pretty much the opposite yet you want everyone to take your side and not that of "OLD".
As mentioned I'll use your advise personally because I am not very exp at riding and it cost me nothing to be more cautious but you need to understand others may feel they have as much expertise as you and still disagree.
It is possible that you are wrong is it not? It is just as possible that they are wrong, why are we being so hard headed? Ease up fellers!
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I shouldn't reply here but i will anyway. I told you before that he believes that he is intellectually superior to the other posters on this form. And if he can't dazzle you with brilliance, he will baffle you with bull sh**.
(Note to self...stop replying in these posts as i have a confrontational personality and don't deal with bullsh** well.)
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It is possible that you are wrong is it not?
Only a complete fool is never wrong.
However, forum discussions are notorious for going astray, so this might be a good time to check what exactly I might be wrong about?!?
For sure I am not wrong about the fact that, generally speaking, scooters have the cheapest possible components when it comes to suspension and brakes while motorcycles comparatively excel in that area.
This excellent text on wikipedia might be too much to digest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_and_motorcycle_dynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_and_motorcycle_dynamics)
However, please, would all proponents of "excellent" scooter brakes and suspensions read the section under "braking" that says:
Braking
A motorcyclist performing a stoppie.
"Most of the braking force of standard upright bikes comes from the front wheel. As the analysis above shows, if the brakes themselves are strong enough, the rear wheel is easy to skid, while the front wheel often can generate enough stopping force to flip the rider and bike over the front wheel. This is called a stoppie if the rear wheel is lifted but the bike does not flip, or an endo (abbreviated form of end-over-end) if the bike flips. On long or low bikes, however, such as cruiser motorcycles and recumbent bicycles, the front tire will skid instead, possibly causing a loss of balance."
Scooters are worst of all. They are low, recumbent, and long, resembling seating position of a cruiser. They have cheapest possible components made for city driving, lines, pads, discs, and usually non-adjustable suspension, front one for sure, with only preload, if at all, on the rear side.
Only a complete fool can or somebody who did not do the homework can put side by side a scooter and a naked and compare handling and brakes.
Whoever sat on 600 cc naked like Fazer 600 or Bandit 600 and then on 500-600 scooter knows all this.
After everything said, is there something else that is not crystal clear?
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I shouldn't reply here but i will anyway. I told you before that he believes that he is intellectually superior to the other posters on this form. And if he can't dazzle you with brilliance, he will baffle you with bull sh**.
(Note to self...stop replying in these posts as i have a confrontational personality and don't deal with bullsh** well.)
Too bad you have zero arguments except one-liners.
If you feel intellectually inferior to me, work on that issue.
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Too bad you have zero arguments except one-liners.
If you feel intellectually inferior to me, work on that issue.
I don't feel inferior to any one especially a condescending arrogant person on an Internet board who thinks that if he blows some ones candle out it will make his brighter.
I have probably forgotten more than you think you know.
Now back to scooters and motorcycles.
Its all in the rider..
Motorcycle VS Scooter - On the Race Track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXgPq0Hg55M#ws)
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I don't feel inferior to any one especially a condescending arrogant person on an Internet board who thinks that if he blows some ones candle out it will make his brighter.
I have probably forgotten more than you think you know.
Now back to scooters and motorcycles.
Its all in the rider..
Motorcycle VS Scooter - On the Race Track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXgPq0Hg55M#ws)
On YouTube you can find video of Yamaha R1 (1000 cc, 150 hp) being beaten in a drag race by Piaggio ZIP (nominally 50 cc, 3 hp).
You would probably be one of the armchair experts claiming hurr-durr, Piaggio Zip can beat R1!
And, of course, that it's all in the rider.
Must have been great being you and forgetting all those things you once knew. Interestingly, I do not forget things I learn. How come you forgot so many?
Maybe you are st... not that intelligent? Stop. Think about it for a second. Facts, analysis, conclusion. Time - now!
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(http://i.imgur.com/iQhK4.gif)
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Just maybe if you make it to my age you will find out you were not as smart as you once thought you were.
Now go hump some one else's leg.
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Just maybe if you make it to my age you will find out you were not as smart as you once thought you were.
Now go hump some one else's leg.
Can't pull seniority on me. I have never been impressed by old people just because they are old. I believe firmly in meritocracy, not gerontocracy.
Old fools are even more sad than young fools because life has passed and they have learned nothing.
Your contribution to this discussion has been zero. Zilch. Nada.
As probably your contribution to pretty much everything else, one can tell...
p.s. Are you done with being humped?
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No you can suck my balls you arrogant bastard. Now I'm done with your dumb ass.
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No you can suck my balls you arrogant bastard. Now I'm done with your dumb ass.
Are you sure? You seem to be of a nervous or excitable disposition.
This is very stressful and unhealthy, especially at your age. ;D ;) 8)
I recommend a nice calming cup of tea, maybe some valerian root.
A knitting club, perhaps? :-*
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::) :-X
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No you can suck my balls you arrogant bastard. Now I'm done with your dumb ass.
(http://ka.rg.free.fr/Sherdog/YESITIS2.gif)
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I think you both need to stop posting in this thread! WTF, time to look at what your saying to one another and remember we have a comon interest here and that is the Kymco product.
I've not met anyone here that is not trying to help others, but we have to allow others their opinions and those considering those opinions the right to figure out who is more correct on their own.
You've both gone too far in my humble opinion and need to take this to a PM or simply stop. If you were face to face I'd doubt either of you would be saying some of what has come up in this thread.
I have an opinion as to who is wrong in this thread when it comes to being the bigger ass but I'll keep that to myself.
Enough allready STOP!
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Yep, what 08' said!
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For German insurances, scooters are usually considered safer than motorcycles.
For an insurance there is no "should be" or "just sucks", only (historic) facts.
And they don't need to explain their data base (from statistical bureau) or draw conclusions for traffic safety (*), only the calculations made.
(*) Thats a matter i.e. for the "Institut für Zweiradsicherheit". Many publications online available. But I doubt, everyone would like to read their expertises.
<=125cc <=11kW <=80kph Kymco scooter for my (16 yr) daughter: 289.33€/year liability insurance.
<=125cc <=11kW <=80kph Kymco motorcycle for my (16 yr) daughter: 518.59€/year liability insurance.
You can calculate it yourself at huk24.de or any other online portal.
(And no, 80kph on a motorcycle is not faster than 80kph on a scooter.)
Perhaps we could agree on the possibility that motorcycles may be theoretically technical superior, but just their technical superiority overkill does the damage. ;)
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For German insurances, scooters are usually considered safer than motorcycles.
For an insurance there is no "should be" or "just sucks", only (historic) facts.
And they don't need to explain their data base (from statistical bureau) or draw conclusions for traffic safety (*), only the calculations made.
(*) Thats a matter i.e. for the "Institut für Zweiradsicherheit". Many publications online available. But I doubt, everyone would like to read their expertises.
<=125cc <=11kW <=80kph Kymco scooter for my (16 yr) daughter: 289.33€/year liability insurance.
<=125cc <=11kW <=80kph Kymco motorcycle for my (16 yr) daughter: 518.59€/year liability insurance.
You can calculate it yourself at huk24.de or any other online portal.
(And no, 80kph on a motorcycle is not faster than 80kph on a scooter.)
Perhaps we could agree on the possibility that motorcycles may be theoretically technical superior, but just their technical superiority overkill does the damage. ;)
Well, in my country and many others, insurance does not depend on "subclass" of vehicle. 500 cc scoot is in the same insurance class as 500 cc motorcycle. (and, interestingly, 500 cc quad!!!)
I believe that it requires a deep knowledge of insurance and actuary mathematics to understand the way insurance amount is formed. It is not easy or straightforward.
It depends on statistics and probability of an accident and average damage paid out by the company, in a way that the company in the end does not lose money.
Most important factor is number of covered miles. Scooters are generally commuters and cover several times less miles than motorcycles, and at, generally, lower speed.
For sure, motorcycles generally are much more hazardous than scooters. However, statistics is not available that would compare equal displacement and power.
If one would analyze for example super scoots like 800-850 cc vs. 800-850 cc motorcycle, most likely some interesting results could be found. Or 500 vs 500.
Of course it is more difficult to get killed by own fault on 50 cc 4 stroke scoot that barely does 25 km/h uphill than on 1000 cc 200 hp sportsbike.
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Well, in my country and many others, insurance does not depend on "subclass" of vehicle.
Perhaps they just don't care - or don't share your credo of scooters beeing more dangerous.
But our locals care - i.e. ~22000 different cars are divided into 16 liability type classes - for (partial) own damage insurance even more complicated.
And you won't be surprised to know that our quad drivers usually pay higher premiums than a similar motorized bike. ;)
Of course it is more difficult to get killed by own fault on 50 cc 4 stroke scoot that barely does 25 km/h uphill than on 1000 cc 200 hp sportsbike.
Ack. But beeing killed by own fault doesn't bother the liablility insurance.
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;)Ack. But beeing killed by own fault doesn't bother the liablility insurance.
Not exactly true. On the insurance policy for the obligatory yearly insurance, there is a portion of value dedicated to injury/death of the driver and/or passenger.
If you kill yourself, your heirs will get the money even if it is your own fault.
As you can see, insurance systems around the world differ.
Btw. I also said that quads are among the most dangerous vehicles on the road as far as I am concerned.
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Axy,
Maybe part of the problem is, Everything doesn't happen in your country. I think I'll hit up a motorcycle forum and ask if they think high end twist and goes are made with the same quality parts as a motorcycle.
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I will stop here.
I saw this while catching up with the discussion and I thought to myself "I bet he can't".
Looks like I was right.
Axy, you're a total clown.
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Axy,
Maybe part of the problem is, Everything doesn't happen in your country.
Person A says, "You are wrong!"
I say, "No, I am not, it is not the same in every country." (followed by many arguments, AND statement "As you can see, insurance systems around the world differ.")
Then finally arrives in rescue Mr. Obvious and tells ME that everything does not happen in MY country.
Wow.
What a revelation.
What an IMMENSE contribution, repeating what I already said, falsely claiming I did not.
Very wise.
gn2,
Are you perhaps afraid of clowns? Would you like to discuss your phobia? Knitting club for you too?
Are you easily agitated by Internet avatars?
Can we work on that?
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Good times on the forum today I see.
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Good times on the forum today I see.
Business as usual. ;)
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Axy,
Is the man in your Avitar "INSANE"? Just wondering.
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Axy,
Is the man in your Avitar "INSANE"? Just wondering.
Why are you asking? Do imaginary friends in your head feel lonely and need company?
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Why are you asking? Do imaginary friends in your head feel lonely and need company?
I ask cause I wonder if the avitar is a reflection of how you see yourself. My signiture is a joke which I try my best to keep in mind when I post, "keep things like hearted and don't take yourself (me) too seriously" Perhaps others including yourself can learn something from it.
Doubt it in some cases.
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Hey Mike! This is the safest you can get!!! Armor!!! ;D ;D ;D
(http://www.luxurylaunches.com/entry_image/0509/06/Dartz_Combat_T98.jpg)
All deers and even cows will be road kill!!!
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Thanks Vivo,
I already have one. It's called a 2004 Ford Excursion with Turbo Diesel and
4 wheel drive. But your's is cool.
Thanks,
Mike