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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: 08087 on October 15, 2012, 01:36:32 AM

Title: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 15, 2012, 01:36:32 AM
There is another button that needs to be in the down position before I can start my scoot, if my scoot is running and I flip this little button up it kills the eng.

I can kill the eng. by turning the key off, why do I need this extra button and what happens if I just turn off the key and leave the switch in the run position?

Does it help drain my batt?
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Vivo on October 15, 2012, 01:50:52 AM
That's for killing the engine without removing your hand from the handlebar, especially during emergencies. A very good safety feature.

But be sure to turn off the ignition switch because, yes, it will drain your battery.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: old geezer on October 15, 2012, 01:59:42 AM
Thats the kill switch. It is Federally mandated that it be there in case of emergencies. It kills the ignition and nothing else. It will not run the battery down no matter what position you leave it in. The ignition key turns on all power to the scooter and will run down the battery if left on.

I never use the kill switch as I may forget about it not being in the run position and  then wondering why the scooter won't start.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: bootscooterboogie on October 15, 2012, 02:55:10 AM
I never use the kill switch as I may forget about it not being in the run position and  then wondering why the scooter won't start.

BAHAHA - my older-than-dirt-Zuma *only* shuts off if I use the kill switch...  Do you know how many times I've been like, "WTF??  Why isn't it starting???"  Then I notice the kill switch is on...  ROFL
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 15, 2012, 12:03:27 PM
Glad to hear it's not only me. Thanks all!
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: baddi on October 15, 2012, 01:46:53 PM
Well, i don't really think it is needed, since the scooter will shut off if you go down anyway. :D
But yeah, as the others say, it is a kill switch for emergencies, even though i cant imagine a scenario, where it would be needed. :D
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 15, 2012, 02:16:18 PM
FYI it won't kill the eng if you hit it doing 30 MPH. I tried it just to see what would happen and the eng died only after slowing to a speed of about 10 MPH or so.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Mike Green on October 15, 2012, 03:54:37 PM
08,
the kill switch has nothing to do with what speed your going. Like Old Geezer said it is federally mandated on just about anything that has an engine, from Jet Skis, boats, lawm mowers, and yes motorcycles and scoots. My John Deere riding lawn mower has one under the seat that drives me crazy. If you get up from the seat it has a pressure sensor that will kill the engine. Evidently this was installed to prevent the mower from continuing to run if you fall out of the seat. But your scoot speed has nothing to do with when it kills the engine.
Mike
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: bleys on October 15, 2012, 05:53:16 PM
Well, i don't really think it is needed, since the scooter will shut off if you go down anyway. :D
But yeah, as the others say, it is a kill switch for emergencies, even though i cant imagine a scenario, where it would be needed. :D

Not necessarily true...I went down on my scooter once and the engine kept running.  As stated earlier, it is an emergency switch, and I know of a friend who's throttle stuck....he was able to hit the kill switch while keeping both hands on the handlebars.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: streido on October 15, 2012, 07:07:12 PM
Did it not kill the engine 08 but the noise you heard was just the engine being turned over as you freewheeled? Seems odd if it wasnt ???
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Mike Green on October 15, 2012, 08:40:32 PM
Right on Striedo!
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 16, 2012, 01:45:56 AM
Did it not kill the engine 08 but the noise you heard was just the engine being turned over as you freewheeled? Seems odd if it wasnt ???

Next time I ride and think of it I'll get above 30 MPH, hit the kill switch, and give it gas to see if the eng rev's and I gain speed.

It may just be as you described, will find out soon.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: blue on October 16, 2012, 01:49:14 AM
Next time you pull up along the side of another scoot hit his kill switch. And then you throtle up and get the hell out of there lol.................
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: old geezer on October 16, 2012, 01:52:54 AM
The kill switch cuts power to the ignition when ever it is turned to the no run position, period.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Vivo on October 16, 2012, 02:23:24 AM
A lot of these Federal Laws make me sick... good thing I'm not in the States. ...
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: whozleft on October 17, 2012, 12:05:54 AM
FYI

I also got hit by a deer when my 250 Xciting only had 30 miles on it. After the hit the scoot slid about 1/8 mile and was still running when I hobbled over to it lying in a ditch. The dealership that repaired it told me that the scoot did NOT have a tip over kill switch like all my big bikes did over the years.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: ScooterWolf on October 17, 2012, 03:22:28 AM
Use of he kill switch is highly pushed and taught in the BRC in the states. In situations where a rider may pop a clutch, or lose throttle control the instructors drill into the students' heads when trying to start, slow or stop their bikes. I always use my kill switch to shut off my engine before kicking out my side stand, or dismount to use the center. At night this is usefull because engine power is off, but my lights are still on. Since I have a detatched garage without any power or lights I use my headlight for seeing when opening the garage and pushing my bike inside.

Back in March when I was rear-ended at a toll booth I was pinned against the side of the booth. Untangling myself I moved to righten the bike and pulled on the throttle when I grabbed the right grip causing my bike to lurch forward slightly. Instantly I hit the kill switch and righted the scoot. In the event of a slide -- if possible -- hit the kill switch to prevent power to the rear wheel. Depending on the speed it may not prevent a high end slide, but anything to slow the wheel will help.

-Wolf



Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on October 17, 2012, 07:21:08 AM
Well, i don't really think it is needed, since the scooter will shut off if you go down anyway. :D
But yeah, as the others say, it is a kill switch for emergencies, even though i cant imagine a scenario, where it would be needed. :D

Throttle stuck wide open... Might be useful then

Could have been useful if Toyota thought of that before that whole fiasco
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: baddi on October 17, 2012, 11:46:22 AM
Throttle stuck wide open... Might be useful then

Could have been useful if Toyota thought of that before that whole fiasco

If the accelleration are so hard that you are not comfortable with removing your hand from the steering wheel, just press the rear brake a little to take some of the power away. :D
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on October 17, 2012, 06:12:49 PM
All powersports have them. It's a safety feature. Don't complain.

If you have a problem with the kill switch on the handlebars then bypass and remove it

I think I'll keep mine. It's nice to have when doing plug chops.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 17, 2012, 08:27:58 PM
All powersports have them. I swear, only scooter geeks would complain about it.

If you have such a problem with the kill switch on the handlebars then bypass and remove it

I think I'll keep mine. It's nice to have when doing plug chops.

To whom is this directed? Certainly hope you don't think I'm complaining.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on October 17, 2012, 08:36:50 PM
Modified...

Wasn't directed at anybody in paticular
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 17, 2012, 11:46:07 PM
FWIW, I plan on going down a hill on my way home tonight with the scoot off, once I reach 20 MPH or so I'm going to turn the ignition to the run position and kill switch into the on position and see if the engine kicks over when I squeeze the brake lever.

I'll report back on what happens.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Mike Green on October 18, 2012, 02:06:06 AM
08,
nothing intened here,
but are you out of your gourd?
Mike
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Vivo on October 18, 2012, 02:13:59 AM
08,
nothing intened here,
but are you out of your gourd?
Mike

Maybe he just have lots of free time Mike... let him be.... if he can't report back...I'll email NYPD and NJ Police to search for him... Lol!!  ;D ;D ;D...  and we'll start a new thread.... 



 
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on October 18, 2012, 02:22:00 AM
FWIW, I plan on going down a hill on my way home tonight with the scoot off, once I reach 20 MPH or so I'm going to turn the ignition to the run position and kill switch into the on position and see if the engine kicks over when I squeeze the brake lever.

I'll report back on what happens.

20 MPH, 100 MPH, doesn't matter the engine will never turn over. Go ahead and try if you want. Be careful though. No headlight, no tail light. Doesn't sound like a good thing to do at night. You could hold down the passing button to turn the headlight on, still no tail light though.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Vivo on October 18, 2012, 02:29:18 AM
20 MPH, 100 MPH, doesn't matter the engine will never turn over. Go ahead and try if you want. Be careful though. No headlight, no tail light. Doesn't sound like a good thing to do at night. You could hold down the passing button to turn the headlight on, still no tail light though.

I tried it once out of curiosity but not downhill.... but with 2 guys pushing.... nothing.. :D
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on October 18, 2012, 02:38:13 AM
If one is really desperate to start a scooter without the starter or kicker you can take the cvt cover off, put a 17mm socket on your cordless drill, and spin the engine over. Put the cover back on and you're ready to go.  ;D

I've done it on mini bikes and go karts... When the engine does fire it may jerk the drill out of your hand. Just be ready to yank it off as soon as the engine fires.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Mike Green on October 18, 2012, 02:53:12 AM
Gotcha Vivo,
I just don't understand 08's obscession with this kill switch. It has NO other function
but to KILL the engine in case of an emergency PERIOD. It has nothing to do with the clutch
or restarting your scoot as you coast down a hill. But if this is his idea of fun or something
who am I to question? Go for it.
Mike
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Vivo on October 18, 2012, 03:03:08 AM
Boys will be boys Mike... age doesnt matter....  ;)   On a long road stretch, I've even tried shutting off all my lights at one night just out of curiosity sh*t...  Oh...it's pitch black....Hehe!!! that was stupidly fun!!! 

By the way, we don't have deers...but saw a big snake crossing once...
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 18, 2012, 07:59:45 PM
Here's my logic or should I say non logic, If I can get the eng to turn over fast enough the centrifical force will engage the clutch and I'll be able to have the eng. start. Quite possibly wrong in my idea but it costs me nothing to carryu out my fancy and find out.

Last night I was on a rather long hill that I can coast down in my car and reach 35 MPH in nutral, however with the eng off on my scoot I only reached 12 MPH and the scoot did not start. (may not have even if I reached 35 MPH)

The hill is not travled well at night but is well lit with street lighting so the risk was minimal. I may try another hill that's a bit steeper at some piont. Like Vivo said, I'm just a boy in a big body. Once I pluged in a DC motor into an AC outlet just to see if the added power would make it spin faster, it did for about 1/10th of a second before it blew. I just like to see first hand is all.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on October 18, 2012, 08:57:01 PM
Here's my logic or should I say non logic, If I can get the eng to turn over fast enough the centrifical force will engage the clutch and I'll be able to have the eng. start. Quite possibly wrong in my idea but it costs me nothing to carryu out my fancy and find out.

The engine does not spin at all when rolling the scooter with the engine off. Doesn't spin the clutch, the belt, the variator, the crankshaft, and the piston does not cycle up and down either. Nothing happens. Spinning the rear wheel does nothing to the engine. It's just like putting a car in neutral and rolling it down a hill. The engine does not turn over. I don't know how I can be more clear about this.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: streido on October 18, 2012, 09:22:32 PM
The engine does not spin at all when rolling the scooter with the engine off. Doesn't spin the clutch, the belt, the variator, the crankshaft, and the piston does not cycle up and down either. Nothing happens. Spinning the rear wheel does nothing to the engine. It's just like putting a car in neutral and rolling it down a hill. The engine does not turn over. I don't know how I can be more clear about this.

Hence why you will never bump start a twist & go scoot ever, no matter how fast you get it free-wheeling, cant be done.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 18, 2012, 09:37:43 PM
The engine does not spin at all when rolling the scooter with the engine off. Doesn't spin the clutch, the belt, the variator, the crankshaft, and the piston does not cycle up and down either. Nothing happens. Spinning the rear wheel does nothing to the engine. It's just like putting a car in neutral and rolling it down a hill. The engine does not turn over. I don't know how I can be more clear about this.

I am sure you are 100% correct, but if centrifical force holds the clutch in place while I'm running at 30 MPH and hit the kill switch then flip the switch back to the run position it will restart without me having to hit the starter. What causes this vs. the "push start thoery"?
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: 08087 on October 18, 2012, 09:38:42 PM
PS Thanks for putting up with my stupidity on this.

08
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on October 18, 2012, 11:02:24 PM
It's already spinning. All the kill switch does is stop ignition, the engine is still turning over along with the clutch and rear wheel. Next time you do it, leave it off and let the scooter roll to a complete stop. You'll hear and feel when the clutch disengages. Usually around 5 mph. Once you loose that connection you will not get it back.
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: people on June 15, 2013, 07:08:55 AM
Sorry to reopen this case, but I have read that the Honda Cub (Honda 90 in the United States?) can be push started. I have not yet looked into how they do it, but it's intriguing. That is my one complaint about the Kymco. It would be nice to have that third method to get the engine turning (that didn't involve pulling the cover and using a cordless drill!).

I still do not understand the clutch. Even if you push start the bike at 160 km / h, it will not grip the belt and turn the engine?
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Vivo on June 15, 2013, 07:38:41 AM
Yes, I had a Honda cub and it has a four speed transmission and a chain drives the wheels.  Put the tranny on neutral... turn ignition to "on" position... push the bike... shift to second gear... engine will start... it's that easy....  In a scooter, it's totally different...(except for some with wet clutches)

Didnt you notice that when going down hill with the engine on, no matter how fast, the engine is still idling? This is because the wheels are turning and the clutch is not engaged.... give it some gas and the scoot will engine brake and lock the rear wheel,,, this means that when you gave gas the engine turned and engaged the clutch...

In your next question... at 160 kph, my theory is that it might turn the clutch, the engine might run, then the engine speed might not match the bike's speed, things may go out of control, you might crash and die... my two cents..  ;)
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Peters on June 28, 2013, 07:40:10 AM
Only 2 ways to start a scooter! What a crime!  ::)
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Stig / Major Tom on June 28, 2013, 12:19:59 PM
when going down hill with the engine on, no matter how fast, the engine is still idling? This is because the wheels are turning and the clutch is not engaged.... give it some gas and the scoot will engine brake and lock the rear wheel,,, this means that when you gave gas the engine turned and engaged the clutch...


Hello Vivo, Back from 10 days in ScooterlandUSA (St Pete Beach, FLA) - so, THAT is what is happening when I ease off the throttle on a long down-hill -- then add power at the bottom? Big jerk of the scoot! Trying to stay within the 25 MPH in the State Park....but learned after 1st episode not to do that again. Now just give it a little power all the way down the hill, to keep things turning in sync down there between me feets! Glad I never tried this in the rain at night on a steep, busy, hill~!
Title: Re: By my start button....
Post by: Vivo on June 29, 2013, 02:22:33 AM
Yes Stig, the clutch bell and the clutch do not have a matching speed, so since the clutch bell is faster than the clutch, the latter will force the former to abruptly low down...