KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: skippy on October 09, 2012, 12:21:43 PM
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just an update....
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k503/skippy198001629/?action=view¤t=2012-09-16125401.jpgate. (http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k503/skippy198001629/?action=view¤t=2012-09-16125401.jpgate.)
had phone call from shop the engine cant be welded, because of the chain tensioner. so i can either find a whole casting block for the cvt side, or a second hand engine...
at this point i dont know what to do... should i buy a new casting £109 or keep looking for a second hand one very rair. then strip engine my self( dont know if in up to that) but may have to... ( is this hard to do? any special tools i need etc)
or keep looking for another engine? just replace......
big problen the wife hates the scooter now...she wants to burn it :o. so any penies spent im in trouble....
im in the uk east midlands
any thorghts werlcome i want her alive again .......
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I managed to snap the entire case in half found another from a brokers £60 delivered, only down side is you will need to rebuild the entire engine as kymcos amazing design means the 2 pins that hold the case on run to the top of the engine where the valves are! I didn't need and specialist tools just a new gasket set and a lot of spare time :) the chain runs from the top to the bottom of engine just make sure you get it back on the teeth properly :)
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Personally i would bin the engine just cos i couldnt be arsed with the hassle and keep trying breakers for another complete engine. Doubt i would spend out for the case cos i know i would give up half way thro building it prob once i got stuck. Surely there must be a breakers with a complete engine going reasonably cheap? For a couple of hundred quid you could prob pick up another complete scoot
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Last resort is try drill and tap 4-6 holes and screw a plate on with that liquid metal stuff below the plate? It may work, may not?
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rang all brokers... no engines. they said they go out as soon as they get them.... i hear the agility is an 139qmb extended drive case...
what other engines/ manufactures should i look for (for direct swop)?
spoke to misses looks like £ 100 is top limet on engine, lol well thats something.
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rang all brokers... no engines. they said they go out as soon as they get them.... i hear the agility is an 139qmb extended drive case...
what other engines/ manufactures should i look for (for direct swop)?
spoke to misses looks like £ 100 is top limet on engine, lol well thats something.
I really dont know ??? Think the People engine may be very similair but no idea if it'll just slip in or not ???
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so far i have found.....
Baotian Taishan Xinling Yamati
HAOTIAN HT50QT-9 ENGINE
Znen 50 Scooter Engine 9012
Shenke 50 Engine Baotian
2011 Direct Bike 50cc Four
these all look the same but are they the long caseb ones?
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I have seen a few gy6 engine put on the agilty 50 fram befor but you have to make sure they work befor trying. some well some wont. My buddy as one with 12 inch tires on the back because of that.
and the wireing is a little dif.
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thanks blue... just checked with some brakers and most 139qmb are short case at 400mm across kick start cover ours are 435mm. so i would have thought these are for the 10" wheel not 12"
will have to just wate for an engine to come along on ebay....
looks like im off the road a fue months more...
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Do the math... Maybe its better to sale for parts and put that money in to a new scoot.Or just get a used scoot same model and use the other for parts.
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if i wate they will be an engine that comes along. there is 1 now but be damed if i pay £220 +£20 post. and thats for an engine that has done 30000. in the uk they just dont seem to be any.... i have seen a new engine in the usa for £226 great but post is £350. its all ducked up lol. pity there is no shops like that in the uk... sure one will pop up.
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Last resort is try drill and tap 4-6 holes and screw a plate on with that liquid metal stuff below the plate? It may work, may not?
+1 Good idea from streido...
I think it would really work when done properly, I would even try a liquid sealant like Curil instead of epoxy - it's guaranteed to be oil-proof and heat resistant enough for this application, and also cheaper and easier to work with...
Take care not to leave some large aluminium chips from drilling in the crankcase. Use a sharp drill bit and drill very slowly so the bit produces one continuous chip of aluminium instead of loose crumbs. Also try to stop at the exact moment the drill is coming through at the other side of the material... With a bit of luck (no pun intended ;D) you can get away with this without disassembling the cylinder etc. Drain and filter the oil afterwards, and repeat this after letting the engine idle for a short wile, just to make sure there's nothing left in there...
Update : It might even work when you use liquid sealant or epoxy to just glue an aluminium plate over the hole, without drilling and tapping for screws, it depends on the surface area that's available though... Also make sure that your crankcase ventilation isn't blocked, so there's no pressure buildup..
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Its gotta be worth a try? The case is f***ed anyway and youre already lookin for a new engine so whats the worst that can happen ::) ::)
I would def tap the plate on if i could, you would need to check the bolt heads wont hit or interfere with anything in the cvt tho, variator, belt etc if you do bolt it on. I cant see it coming off if its bolts in place and the plate with the sealant should be solid if done right. What you got to lose apart from time and a tenner for the sealant? If you need taps and drills i can prob get you some from work and post them down if you want, long as its only a quid or so for postage, i "borrow" them for free.
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it may work. there is next to no room for a bolt head but screw head maybe. will give it another go on tuesday. thanks for the offer of taps streido. i have a set at work some where.so will find them out. i also have plenty of sealent and metal putty. thanks everone.
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I would locktite in the screw/bolts too.
Maybe use like 4x or 6x small panhead screws at 4mm-6mm's. If you cut a small patch of thin steel and shape it into the contour of the case by lightly hammer it over where you need it before you gunk it up with the sealer it should work i reckon, at least for a while.
Just need to sort out the bolts/screws.....
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sounds good. dont know where to find a small sheat of metal though. will have to have a look around.
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I wouldn't use larger diameter screws than 3..4mm, there's almost no force to withstand, and the less material you have to remove the better...
I would also consider the use of self-tapping screws. They seem to produce less debris than tapping a thread in a hole - which is an advantage if you're working on a closed crankcase that you don't want chips of aluminium to fall into..
Also, I would use aluminium sheet instead of steel since it will have the same expansion coefficient as the crankcase, minimizing the chance that it will work itself loose or break the sealant after a number of heat cycles...
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Most motor factor shops will have a sheet of mild steel for car body/floor repairs, wont be dear. Or look for a local sheet metal shop and ask in there, theyd maybe have an off cut for free.
Dont know if this would fit but......
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KYMCO-VITALITY-50-ENGINE-/130750305852?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e7153563c (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KYMCO-VITALITY-50-ENGINE-/130750305852?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e7153563c)
Or any of these?......
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JM-Star-Madness-50-JSD50QT-13-Jonway-Complete-Engine-50cc-/130774231396?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e72c06964 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JM-Star-Madness-50-JSD50QT-13-Jonway-Complete-Engine-50cc-/130774231396?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e72c06964)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Direct-Bikes-50cc-Engine-Stand-11967-/130692973300?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e6de882f4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Direct-Bikes-50cc-Engine-Stand-11967-/130692973300?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e6de882f4)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/direct-bikes-50-cc-engine-/110963935671?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item19d5f749b7 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/direct-bikes-50-cc-engine-/110963935671?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item19d5f749b7)
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I wouldn't use larger diameter screws than 3..4mm, there's almost no force to withstand, and the less material you have to remove the better...
I would also consider the use of self-tapping screws. They seem to produce less debris than tapping a thread in a hole - which is an advantage if you're working on a closed crankcase that you don't want chips of aluminium to fall into..
Also, I would use aluminium sheet instead of steel since it will have the same expansion coefficient as the crankcase, minimizing the chance that it will work itself loose or break the sealant after a number of heat cycles...
+1 Everything he just said ;D
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Most motor factor shops will have a sheet of mild steel for car body/floor repairs, wont be dear. Or look for a local sheet metal shop and ask in there, theyd maybe have an off cut for free.
Dont know if this would fit but......
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KYMCO-VITALITY-50-ENGINE-/130750305852?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e7153563c (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KYMCO-VITALITY-50-ENGINE-/130750305852?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e7153563c)
Or any of these?......
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JM-Star-Madness-50-JSD50QT-13-Jonway-Complete-Engine-50cc-/130774231396?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e72c06964 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JM-Star-Madness-50-JSD50QT-13-Jonway-Complete-Engine-50cc-/130774231396?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e72c06964)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Direct-Bikes-50cc-Engine-Stand-11967-/130692973300?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e6de882f4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Direct-Bikes-50cc-Engine-Stand-11967-/130692973300?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e6de882f4)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/direct-bikes-50-cc-engine-/110963935671?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item19d5f749b7 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/direct-bikes-50-cc-engine-/110963935671?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item19d5f749b7)
yer ive seen all those and messaged the sellers they either engine mounts in wrong place or short case. so would have to put a 10" wheel on to make it work. there is a fue about but all short case. the cvt cover is 1.5" shorter than our engines.
i was going to buy one to use the crank case thing to use on my engine but would be to small.
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right ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
just got back home with a 55 plate agility 50. was sold as spair or repair. owner could not get it started. for £190. a quick look shows there is no spark. so will take the engine out tomorrow and put it into my 2010 plate agility. prity sure it will start up with my electrics. cant wate. then ill keep looking for a cheep engine for this 55 plate and do that one up.with any luck ill be back on the road tomorrow. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Nice. Got my fingers crossed for you that it works :D
What mileage was on the 54 plate? Was it derestricted or still restricted?
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Nice. Got my fingers crossed for you that it works :D
What mileage was on the 54 plate? Was it derestricted or still restricted?
55 plate. 11000.... restricted...red...
ok put engine in my scoot... no compresion... dammmm. realy hard to turn over.. took head off and piston sezed. scored burnt, and would not rotate on gudion pin.so couldnt get piston off the crank shaft.( there was no oil at all)...so i have spent the day stripping both engines down. top and bottom, god i hope i can put it back together again. just finished on second engine strip.was so suprised. only took 1 hour to strip all top end down. going to use the piston and head of my old agility. in fact i will be using every thing from my old except from the cvt engine casing as that is the damaged part from my old scoot.
will have to look for a gasket set tomorrow so i can finish it.
one question though all bottom end gaskets are what looks like paper. if i cant find a gasket set tomorrow would instant gasket stuff hold?
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Yeah a lot of scoot gaskets are made of gasket paper. If you cant get a gasket set you can usually buy a sheet of the gaakwt paper and cut out your own using the old gaskets as templates. You really better fit a gasket in there and not just use sealant, use sealant too, butdef use a gasket. You dont want to rebuild it then have to strip it back down if it leaks bad.
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Some small auto stores keep the gasket paper in stock, i know cos i got some a few weeks ago to make a carb gasket for the Vespa.
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Or fleabay, heres one i saw but there may be cheaper, 1st one i saw.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GASKET-PAPER-MATERIAL-OIL-AND-WATER-RESISTANT-5X-A4-SHEETS-/120943973015?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c28d29297 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GASKET-PAPER-MATERIAL-OIL-AND-WATER-RESISTANT-5X-A4-SHEETS-/120943973015?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c28d29297)
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yer i know the paper stuff well. i used it a fue times in the past. put it on the block and use a hammer to tap round to cut it out. never lasted long though.
how is the vespa? she running again?
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there is a shop in a place calles dj s shirebrook about 5 mile away. he is the one that has lots of vespas. but has most things in stock for the chinese bikes. so he should have one in. will see tomorrow. just want job done tomorrow while fresh in my mind where things go etc. if i order on and wate it will be next week befor i can get it done. fingers crossed..... although all the bad luck i have realy enjoyed today playing. just hope it breaths again.
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You better just MAKE it breathe again or the wife will kill you :D
Vespas running like a swiss watch now. Had an air leak on the carb gasket and a leak on the fuel line gasket so now thats fixed its going the best it ever has. Its a pleasure to ride it every day and i can even overtake going up hills ;D
If i had my time again i def wouldve got a 2stroke 50cc, i need it for the hills round here.
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she already hates me for it. i started out to buy a cheep scoot. £250 for scoot 1 ran what 6 month spent £200 or over derestricting and exhaust etc. now £190 for another scoot that was fecked. thats an exspencive cheep scoot. but still ill still look far a cheep engine to put in this 55 plate then my son can use that and we could cause havak on the streets together. ;D
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If it was me rather than keep throwing money and not being sure if it's definitly going to solve your problems, I would put both bikes on eBay and put the money towards a brand new machine I think at £1070 on the road with a 2 year warranty you can't go wrong, they save you that in public transport in the first year alone, let's say you can raise £250 for both scoots selling them for spares you would need £820 towards the new scoot even if you finance that over the 2 years you would be talking less than £5 a week that's one days bus/train fair these days. plus no more worries about repair bills as you will have your warranty no mot for 3 years and will not need tyres or other wear and tear items as everything is shiney and new. compared to running a car for the last 18 years scootering feels so cheap I will probably just buy a new kymco every 3 years simply because if you start taking into account mots, tyres, drive belts etc that will start needing replacing as the scoot gets older you would not be far off the cost of a new machine, I think after 3 years and 30,000km you would have had your money's worth anything longer is a bonus. I would not go with any other manufacturer now as in the last 18 months of owning both scoots I have never had a days trouble out of mine or my wife's kymco's. previously we had new peugeot and scoots and both had there faults and could not rely on them seems since they went to china for production, i have owned quite a few scoots over the years and none worse than the new peugeots even my boatian was far more reliable. I know some kymco's are now made in china but at least the quality is still there were as Peugeot seems like its all about cost cutting and max profit....
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shes alive.....
thats it had to make the botom end gaskets out of gasket paper and sealent. worked a treat...
but the top end used the old gaskets. (not a good fix) got her running smoth but a little oil leaking from under the piston block into the crank case. so i have ordered a top end gasket set and will strip top end down in the weak. still victory dance time....
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If it was me rather than keep throwing money and not being sure if it's definitly going to solve your problems, I would put both bikes on eBay and put the money towards a brand new machine I think at £1070 on the road with a 2 year warranty you can't go wrong, they save you that in public transport in the first year alone, let's say you can raise £250 for both scoots selling them for spares you would need £820 towards the new scoot even if you finance that over the 2 years you would be talking less than £5 a week that's one days bus/train fair these days. plus no more worries about repair bills as you will have your warranty no mot for 3 years and will not need tyres or other wear and tear items as everything is shiney and new. compared to running a car for the last 18 years scootering feels so cheap I will probably just buy a new kymco every 3 years simply because if you start taking into account mots, tyres, drive belts etc that will start needing replacing as the scoot gets older you would not be far off the cost of a new machine, I think after 3 years and 30,000km you would have had your money's worth anything longer is a bonus. I would not go with any other manufacturer now as in the last 18 months of owning both scoots I have never had a days trouble out of mine or my wife's kymco's. previously we had new peugeot and scoots and both had there faults and could not rely on them seems since they went to china for production, i have owned quite a few scoots over the years and none worse than the new peugeots even my boatian was far more reliable. I know some kymco's are now made in china but at least the quality is still there were as Peugeot seems like its all about cost cutting and max profit....
TRUE but its a sentametal thing. love my kymco. but now its working i will need to strip the top end down again but that will only take an hour or so. but for £650 i have a 2010 agility thats hevely derestricted. to find one it would prob cost £600 so only £50 down but have a nere perfect engine and my time but i now have the knolage of the whole engine. every nut and bolt. that to me is worth more than money. and on the pluss side all i need is an engine for the other scoot. then my son can have one as well. ill keep looking out for one. so for another £200 i can have 2 agilitys for £850. ;D
ok im starting to think i have an agility problem. is there an aa for that?
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TRUE but its a sentametal thing.
+1 ;D
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ok im starting to think i have an agility problem. is there an aa for that?
Agilitycollectors Anonymous.... Count me in .. ;D
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The problem I have is I need reliability to get me to work on time and my only transport is my scoot or a bicycle for my 18 mile round commute, if I thought my scoot was a bit tempremental I would end up allowing for this and leaving for work a good hour before I needed to just incase, saying my scoot had broken down again just would not cut it in my place of work, the only way I could manage with a older less reliable machine is by having a seconed road worthy scoot as a back up so if I thought one was starting to play or failed to start that day I could jump on the other. This is the only reason I prefer a newer machine but if times carry on getting harder I may well have to start getting my hands dirty maintaining an ageing scoot. Gone are the days when I could afford a new car every 3 years and it looks like the days when I can afford a new scoot every 3 years are also coming to an end.....
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Old school is much better imo, less plastic, more metal, give me steel control cables over electronics and hydraulics any day. These days its all sensors and chips, we wont have classic cars and classic scoots made after the 80's-90's in the future.
I also prefer vinyl to cd/mp3, FM radio beats digital, manual beats automatic and old Black and White movies are good too.
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Old school is much better imo, less plastic, more metal, give me steel control cables over electronics and hydraulics any day. These days its all sensors and chips, we wont have classic cars and classic scoots made after the 80's-90's in the future.
I also prefer vinyl to cd/mp3, FM radio beats digital, manual beats automatic and old Black and White movies are good too.
+1.to many electrics ie ecu chips etc make things harder for dionostics. mechanical is much better not as economical ( injection etc can be tuned better but give me old mecanics any day.
not with you on the vinyl though. but cds are pants as easy scratched. but finding a track on a mps or something is hell. you cant lose your vinyl lol
im at the point with the agility where i cant see how it will ever realy die. there is nothing that cant be fixed with a little time. even something like a piston change only takes an hour or so. and costs around $20 for piston and gaskets. there is only electrics i have not got a clue with. but sure when i have an electrical problem there will be help on hear as there has been with everything els. all my knolage of my agility 50 has come from here. never thought id have the guts to do a total engine strip and rebulid(tob and bottom engine) but thanks to everyone on here and all you suport i could do it with ease. and its one thing i would recomend for everyone to do befor they die. one for the bucket list ;D. thanks again everyone.
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Yeah, pat yourself on the back bro ;)
I havent done a full engine rebuild yet but when the time comes i will. Even tho i had riden scoots in my teens i never ever knew hkw to fix anything much till i got my Kymco. After i had that and joined here i went from a total noob who knew nothing to where i am now, a total noob who knows somethings ;D
I dont have any fear of trying to fix anything now, and i got 2 scoots now too so in theory i should always have at least one to ride to work unless i get real bad luck one time.
You may get a few niggles for a couple of weeks till you iron out any small gremlins but sounds like you did good. 8)
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another update... well gasket came fitted it. started up first time no leak.... but the fat lady not sang...went for a run about 2 mile then it stalled would not start again... walked it home... thought its got to be either carb or something in the cvt. well checked the cvt first nothing wrong so carb... took idle jet out and blew through it and it was blocked so blew harder and freed the crap out. put back together and all good... went for another run and all seems good. will try again for a run tomorrow befor the victory dance. ;D fingers crossed
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You may find it will bung up again in a few days or weeks, i had to blow my idle jet out on the vespa a good few times over a couple of weeks till i got all the crap out the system. Should be fine tho.
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well ran it to work ang back today. all seems good. seems to be missing a little power though. may need to bed in a bit. also front brake keeps sticking abit for a fue min. so hope the caliper piston comes free abit. a bit of back fire( poping when i take off full throttle.
at least its running again can tune up in my own time now.... gone back to standered air filter for the moment while i get it sorted also 82 jet .
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The front brake will just need greased, mine was the same till i copper greased all pins, the sliding bit and back of the pads. Dont pump the brake lever when its apart too much cos it will push the pistons out and they can be a hassle to refit. And use copper grease cos when i tried other greases they only lasted a week or so then they stuck again, copper grease fixed it and been fine for months now.
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did all that not so long ago. one pistin is slightly coraded thats why it sticks. after being stood a month or so i think its just stuck again but come monday in changing lots of bits from one bike to the other. all plasticks better on this 55 plate bike so will change them.will go from silver to red. but will rub down the silver panels and prep them for when i fancy painting them. so much to play with and not enough time...
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Copper grease on the brake pistons will swell the seals and can make them stick even more after some time.
Since brake fluid is glycol based, the brake piston seals are made of a different kind of rubber, resistant to glycol/alcohol like substances - but because of that, it swells from mineral oils, the same way that normal oil seals swell from brake fluid....
Copper grease is fine for the back of the brake pads and the guide pins though, but you should only use silicone grease or special brake grease for the brake pistons...
Take care, your brakes are your best friends ;D
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thanks mono. to be honest i never grese up the piston. i figur that the brake fluid does that job. but when i pumped the brake and pushed piston back a fue times to free and losen up i noticed a little corotion on the piston its self. like it was sticking. it does not pump out same as the other. so may be time to change. will strip it down again and grese up with silicon around piston see it its better first. thanks for agvice.
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I've had the same problem of light corrosion on one of the brake pistons with my 2006...
I didn't feel like taking it apart completely at the time, so I only took the caliper off the front fork with the hose still attached, took the brake pads out, and pumped the pistons out just as far as I thought to be possible without the bottom of the pistons passing the seals (and causing the system to empty itself all over the place ;D)...
With the pistons extended as far as I dared to go, I polished the pistons by wrapping a shoestring around them and pulling it back and forth...(= the only way to get around the pistons without disassembling them completely)
This really did the trick, the pistons were smooth again, apart from a slight discolouration where the rust had been, did the same trick again with a clean shoestring soaked in silicone grease - and this caliper has been fine for two years since...
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Oh, and by the way : replace the brake fluid every year or so...
It attracts water, which causes most of this kind of corrosion...
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that prob why. its prob never been changed. will have to look at that too.