KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Super 8 150 => Topic started by: skishades on August 30, 2012, 09:39:48 AM
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Ok, I recently got my alarm installed and working. Finally put the bike back together and installed a brake transmitter (my wife's helmet has the receiver) and making sure everything was ok.. I had to reinstall a top case which had built in brake lights. Everything was working electrically speaking... Then I tried to start it and the head lights just went out. The bike also isn't starting... just turns over (and yes, the alarm is off). It was starting before I put the plastic back on when I first checked all the electrical for the brakes and the alarm.
I am thinking its the CDI this time since it happened when I was trying to start the bike AND the bike won't start now. Could it be the relay that dims the bulbs when trying to start? Would the relay affect starting if it went bad?
I blew a fuse when I put the top case on... it started just fine after putting the rack on (before I put the top case on) but when I put the top case on, the electrical button on the bottom were slightly rotated which blew a fuse. I fixed the fuse, all the others were fine, and corrected the button and rechecked the electrical... Everything was fine. I got the plastic back on and situated the battery back in (I did have the floor pan out originally). Checked the electrical again and everything worked... then I tried to start it... the headlights turned off, the engine only turned over and the headlights never came on again. The fuses are good and all the other electrical is working. Just at a loss as to where to poke around next...
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The light control box has two powered wires going to it... one switches when I activate the high beams to another wire but there is always two powered wires going to it... I have no powered lines coming from the light control box. I am thinking the light control box is damaged. I have ordered the part... is there anything else to test while I wait for the part?
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You can by-pass the light control box to get rid of the dimming at low rpm...
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While I was looking at the lights I was going to replace some with LED's... the manual says the brake light and positions lights in the rear are LED yet I recall pulling out bulbs when I had it all apart. The part number however says its a bulb... doesn't say LED. Pretty certain the manual is wrong as noted below, look at the differences... 60/55W headlight? really? LED in the dash? do they think T10 bulbs are the same as LED?
From Manual:
Headlight………………………...12v 60/55W x 2
Tail/Brake Light ……………….12v 0.47W LED & (12v 4.4W LED)
Turn Signal light………………...12v 10W x 4
+ 4 more encased light
Position Light…………………….12v 5W (front) & 12v 0.47W LED (rear)
X2 for front
Part numbers for Super8 150 from KymcoUSA parts online website
2 x Headlight - bulb 12v/35w - 34901-KEB7-E00
2 x Position light (front) - 34903-LDC8-E10
1 x Taillight - bulb tail light - 34906-LBA8-E80
4 x Turn Signals - BULB WINKER - 34905-LBA8-E80
2 x Dashboard lights - BULB,WEDGE BASE T10 - 34908-GGAG-70A
3 x Dashboard lights - BULB WEDGE BASE - 34908-MKB9-C00
If anyone knows the bulb base for any of these, it would really help with some of the replacements. Is the headlight an H4, an H7 or BA20D base? Is the instrument panel BA9S? Is the Turn signal bulb BA15S? Slowly making sense of these... onwards and forwards....
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Ok... figured out the bulbs.
The headlight is an HS1 35/35W. HS1 bulbs have a slight thicker middle tab than an H4 bulb but you can use an H4 bulb in the socket. I have ordered a 15/21W H4 LED bulb from China (I hope its real at least) that puts out 2100 lumens. About $60 a set and I have no idea if it will hold up or work... I will let you know and post the pictures when they arrive.
There are 5 wedge bulbs in the instrument panel (all 12v, 3 1.7w and 2 3.4w)... the measurements match T10 bases and I have ordered LED replacements for 5w bulbs... should brighten up the dash considerably. There are 3 other wedge bulbs with the same base with no markings... 2 are in front of the headlights, and the third is the license plate light... I have ordered LED bulbs for those as well... should be brighter when I am done.
I used the same bulbs as others for the turn signals and the brake lights. The turn signals have an 1156 base (aka BA15s) and the brake light has a 1157 base (aka BAY15d). I will also be adding LED's to the original location in the housing the turn signals were designed to be in... T10 bases will fit into those spots after drilling out the hole. A resistor for EACH turn signal is required but a larger resistor may suffice for each side... currently testing... or the turn signal will flash too rapidly to be considered blinking.
Summary of bulbs: LED Equivalent: ****Special Notes**** (wattages listed are what I used, not recommendations)
Headlight: HS1 35w/35w H4 21w 2200 lumen LED
Turn Signals: 1156 base 1156 base 7.5w amber **you need a resistor for EACH turn signal sometimes called an equalizer
Brake Light: 1157 base 1157 base LED (white if you have a red lens or red regardless)
Position bulbs: T10 base T10 LED (white for the position lights in the headlights, any color you want for the dashboard)
Has anyone drilled out those original spots yet? Did the base fitting clip in? Does anyone know how to add a delay so the lights look to be moving out to the edge of the bike when the blinker is going? (ie, the inside lights up first then a quarter second later the outside blinker turn on)
Note: The base fitting of an 1156 or 1157 bulb is too large to be functional in the original front housing. T10 bases fit perfectly with the LED bulb mounted inside the lens.
The reason I am doing so much at once... the plastic is a bit of a pain to remove (not really difficult but awkward enough you don't want to do it again). I have it apart now... so I might as well get these projects done. If anyone is going to do this themselves... I hope the parts I have listed help you order the parts before you take it apart so you don't have the same downtime I have had so far.
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Well some parts are in... for the dash. (http://)
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Played around with a a few of the bulbs. The original bulbs made the dash look like the picture in the post above. I found the Red T10 has diodes on 4 sides and on top... it cast light in all directions. The blue and white T10's had one diode which only cast forward. I put white LED bulbs in the turn signal indicators and a blue in the High beam socket (tried that with white as well, looked the same). The second picture put a red LED (with the 5 directional diodes) in the speedometer socket and it lit up much better while the white LED clearly has a single focus in the picture. I really liked the blue results in the speedo but didn't like the directional light so I have a new blue 5 LED (like the red one) on order. For now, I have the red and white installed. The dash is definitely brighter. The turn signal and the high beam are clearly much brighter in the LED pictures. These T10 LED bulbs must be installed correctly or they do not work at all... no way to tell which way is correct but you just pull the bulb out and turn 180Ëš and reinsert if the bulb doesn't work... Check each and every bulb before putting everything back together.
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Where did you get those bulbs from? looking to take down my Super 8 this winter and doing some upgrades, one being the changing lights to LED.
Thanks.
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I have ordered most of the bulbs through websites from China, much cheaper but they can take a month to ship to you. You also have to read the minimum quantity to order. US websites do carry the T10 wedge bulbs but they cost about 5 dollars each, but through China, they have been about 2 dollars each. I ordered some amber bulbs for turn signals, 10 bulbs were 10 dollars, the US sites wanted 7 dollars a bulb and I needed 4 of them so I ordered the bulk of 10 since I couldn't order just 4.
I did a google search for the bulbs I was looking for. DHgate.com, allibaba.com, miniinthebox.com are some of the chinese websites that connect with wholesale suppliers in china... some of the wholesalers will sell them individually, most are selling them in quantities of 50 or 100, just read carefully. Some of the bulbs are sold in Units, a unit is going to vary from one suppliers to another. For example, one sold a unit as 50 pieces, another, same bulb sold it as 2 pieces... so you might be ordering just 1, but you could be paying for 50. The downside is it can take a month to ship unless you pay the 30 dollars for expedited shipping. The final bit of warning is be careful. Use a credit card that has consumer protection or a paypal account so you have a way to cancel an order if they fail to deliver. One company shipped my order to Georgia (GA) instead of California (CA)... clearly having trouble in the translation into a different alphabet.
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I have replaced the light control box and still no power to the headlights and it won't start. I am now thinking it is the CDI since it controls he ignition coil and controls power from the light control box. Anyway to test the CDI for proper functioning? How to I make sure the capacitor isn't damaged?
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headlight problem is very common in super 8 ..
http://www.motorcyclephilippines.com/forums/showthread.php?178768-s8-headlight-irecta-na (http://www.motorcyclephilippines.com/forums/showthread.php?178768-s8-headlight-irecta-na)!-sirain-kasi-yun-headlight-controller-eh
i am having the same problem , but i didnt apply this method yet .
do this on your own risk because i read a lot comments they get fuse blown when used headlight + brake
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I have not had this problem at all. However, I have put a HID kit in which runs straight off the battery itself. All the headlight switch does now is switch 2 relays, 1 for each HID kit. I also changed over my rear light to a high powered LED along with the parker lights in the front headlights and all the dash lights. I just have to find LED bulbs now for the front and rear indicators. Most of them are too long and wont fit, real pain in the arse when you have to pull the whole bike apart to get to the rear taillight!!! >:( I also replaced the flasher relay to an LED version so I didn't have to install resistors (pointless of doing the conversion if you install resistors as the object is to lessen the load on the battery).
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I originally planned resistors but as I got into the project, the cost of 4 resistors was more than a new LED blinker (a blinker designed for LED's). The new blinker doesn't give the sound the original Kymco blinker gives, in fact, it's completely quiet, but I don't feel I need the audio reminder as my dash lights up like a christmas tree when its blinking with those 5w equivalent LED's in them. I spent about $21 on the new blinker and it was just plug and play.
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I figured out why it wouldn't start. When I blew a fuse, my alarm system shorted out. A wire from my alarm to the key switch, used to tell the alarm when the bike is started or not, was grounding the CDI. It was not repairable so it was either replace to remove... I opted to remove it as I don't need to reinstall an expensive weak link.
With the bike now starting normally, the headlights now turn off after the motor is running. The lights used to turn on when the key was turned. The lights apparently only stay on during idle though... hi/low works great on the LED headlights, but the lights shut off when gas is applied. For some reason the Light Control Assay is getting a signal from the CDI to turn off when it revs. There is nothing to indicate that the LCA needs a load to function correctly like the turn signal blinker. Still need to figure out what is causing the change.
Does anyone know how to test the RPM sensor from the CDI? I have seen YouTube video's but I don't know what a "correct" signal should look like. Basically, I am wondering what would happen if I tied it into a powered line or a grounded line (and left the LCA disconnected from the CDI). I would prefer not to blow another fuse.
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Ok... figured out the next step. The power from the new LED bulbs back flow down each other because there is so little resistance. If you bypass the ECM, you only have high beams on. If you have the original bulbs in, it blows a fuse. To prevent the back flow and to bypass the ECM, you need a diode. I have been trying to find out what would be the best diode that would tolerate the original lights if I have to reinstall them but would also let me run the LED's. I found this formula to calculate the needed amperage for a diode on a forum from 2004. http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?TID=73254&TPN=1&PN=1 (http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?TID=73254&TPN=1&PN=1)
"Diodes have a current rating and a peak inverse voltage rating(piv). The piv will be 12 volts, and your current will be calculated from the PIE formula:
P - Power, watts ---- I - Current, amps --- E - Volts
P=I x E
I= P / E
I= 20w / 12v
I~ 1.7 amps
I generally double this as a safety measure, and for you I would recommed a 5 amp diode.
Connect cathode to low beam, anode to high beam."
Basically, if I want to run motorcycle bulbs which are 60w, I need to divide by the voltage of the system (12v)... this gives me 5 amps. My LED bulbs are 21w (so divide by 12) and I get an amperage of 1.75. Double for safety (so about 3.5 or higher is recommended). I could probably get away with a 5amp for the LED's might want larger if I want to run the original bulbs (10 amp maybe?). Either way, I am going to try a 5amp, 50w diode from Radio Shack. If it works, great, if it fails either a fuse blows or I have high beams only again. On to testing...
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Vivo or Nori, is there an English link on how to bypass the light controller? Why cant you just tap one of the suppy power wires directly to one of the headlights? Which headlight is the high beam?
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Google Translate can mostly work on this link (make sure safe mode on the Google Translate website is *disabled*):
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fscootergrisen.dk%2Fscooterhjemmeside%2Fspecielt_kymcosuper8.php (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fscootergrisen.dk%2Fscooterhjemmeside%2Fspecielt_kymcosuper8.php)
On the US version of the Super8, the power source is a little different for the Hi/Lo switch vs. what is supplied to the headlights. The Hi/Lo switch only needs to provide a very low current from the scooters "accessory" circuit. That goes into the LCB, and triggers a relay switch (or similar), which in turn passes current through from the "headlight" circuit into the headlights.
See also this post: http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=8587.msg93955#msg93955 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=8587.msg93955#msg93955) (note that this assumes you have a US spec. bike)
Blue = high beam circuit, White = Low beam circuit
I've got mine wired up with a relay to bypass the LCB low-beam only, and kept high-beam in the LCB. The reason for doing so is that when starting I can switch to Hi, and the LCB will keep the headlights off until the engine is running - that way the battery still provides as much electricity as possible during starting. Doing that has it's own drawbacks as high beam won't function properly when transitioning between hi/low beam while driving (if you leave it at high beam, it continues to work fine). Someday, I'll finish the job by putting in the relay on the high-beam circuit and adding a separate light switch (or even relay) that allows the lights to be kept off during starting.
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When you hard wire the lines, the fuse blows on an American Kymco bike. The ECM is the actual switch for the lines, not the hi/low button on your handlebars. When you flip to HI beam, the low beam becomes grounded. When you switch back to low, the hi beam becomes grounded. The hi and low beams have an additional ground at the bulb so power usually flows through the element and into that ground if you are using the ECM. If you remove the ECM, there is no longer a switch so, assuming you turn on the hi beam, the line from the low beam is powered by the ground it shares at the bulb and pulls additional power (same happens when you turn on the low beam, the hi beam because powered by the ground at the bulb)... increasing the amperage and blowing a fuse. Only when it goes through the ECM does the line actually get "switched" so power cannot travel down it. In theory, a diode would solve the problem and prevent the line from becoming a ground aka another route for the power to flow. I currently only have the low beam hardwired up so I can ride to work without blinding anyone.
BTW. When I installed LED headlights, they did not pull enough amperage to blow the fuse. Combined, it pulls about 2 amps now. The problem is, the hi beam and low beam are both powered regardless of which line/beam I try to use leaving me with only hi beams if both are hardwired.
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This is nuts!!
I'm not an electrical engineer but is there a reason why the lighting system has to be complicated?
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Hmm - the grounds on my bike were all connected together, and were connected to the frame. Aside from not having an actual light switch, generally followed these schematics: http://www.motorcycleshdwallpaper.com/kymco-motorcycles/kymco-super-8-125-wiring-kymco-super-8-wiring-diagram-motorcycle/ (http://www.motorcycleshdwallpaper.com/kymco-motorcycles/kymco-super-8-125-wiring-kymco-super-8-wiring-diagram-motorcycle/)
Mine is a 2012 US model - not sure if there would be any differences dependent on year as well.
Anyway, as an update to the wiring colors - this is what it should be at the wiring harness connection at the LCB:
Blue = High Beam (from switch)
White = Low Beam (from switch)
Blue/Black = High Beam (to headlight)
White/Black = Low Beam (to headlight)
Red = +12V from battery
Green = Ground (frame ground, including all bulb grounds)
Black/Red = Input from CDI (not needed if bypassing with relays)
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I am no electrical engineer but I had EVERY wire exposed at some point looking for a short last winter. The blue wire and the white are correct, they basically have a stripe after the ECM. All grounds eventually lead to the frame but there is only one green wire from the headlights so both hi and low beams are using that wire. The ECM cuts power from the headlights to help start the scooter more easily, which is why it is the actual relay switch for the headlights. I don't know how necessary it is but they apparently felt it was. With LED's, I have had no problems starting it and I now have a $100 replaced with $1.50 in diodes and $60 bulbs. I still plan to hook up the position lights too... just going to pull the wire going into the clip and splice directly into one of the wires.
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All I want is the high beam, could I run a separate ground wire directly to the frame and tap a Hot wire that does not run through the ecm and connect it to the head light. This woud mean the light would be on when ever the key is switch on. My scoot charges the battery OK right now. It is the law here headlight must be on all the time.
My lights both of them are on at idle and both go off when the bike revs....Kinda reverse of what should happen.
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ShuttleBug - Unfortuneately, you won't be able to connect the headlights directly to the power from the ignition switch - the headlights drawing 5.8A would likely overload the fuse for it (it's only a 7A fuse, and also has to support the rest of the system, including ignition module, aux. lights, brakelight, etc.).
skishades - I'd been thinking about changing the headlight bulbs to an LED type my People 250 - have you had a chance to go out for a test ride with it yet? If so, what's your take so far on it's performance in comparison to the stock bulb?
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skishades - I'd been thinking about changing the headlight bulbs to an LED type my People 250 - have you had a chance to go out for a test ride with it yet? If so, what's your take so far on it's performance in comparison to the stock bulb?
A HID light will work on the People 250. Much better light than all but the very expensive Cree bulbs. Try looking at one of theses. I put a HID on my People and it was 3 times as bright as the stock 35watt light. Look here and search "Motorcycle Hid" http://dx.com/?Utm_rid=65704208&Utm_source=affiliate65704208 (http://dx.com/?Utm_rid=65704208&Utm_source=affiliate65704208)
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I have the lights installed... just not the diodes. I did test both and they are definitely brighter than the stock 35w lights were. The light is very white and crisp, making the old lights look very yellow in comparison. I can see better but I haven't seen the hi at night yet... which will be tested when I have the diodes installed... but they did seem brighter when I checked them in the garage before pulling their wire.
Shuttlebug... the lights are supposed to be on all the time anyways. If they aren't on, the ECM isn't working properly. You can hardwire it, it will likely pull more amps than the fuse will tolerate at some point when the battery is a little weaker (ie older or colder) when trying to start and then you won't have headlights at all. You really should fix the ECM or reduce the amperage of the lights (ie LED headlights).
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Skishades, that is my problem now I have no headlights...except at idle on the highbeam, nothing anytime when on low beam position or high beam once I start moving. So you think this is an ecm problem and not the controller?
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Hello...I too have this same issue with my 2009 Super 8 150. My lights only work when the scooter is idling and go off as soon as I rev it up to take off.
I've had my own thread on here about the issue, and read some of the others. I still have not seen a concensus as to what the real problem/solution is. I know a lot of you are more technically/electrically inclined than I am, but there must be a fairly simple solution to this issue....I hope anyway.
I just replaced my CDI...and unfortunately that was not the issue. $79 wasted.
To avoid wasting another $70 on a light control box, I'm hoping somebody has a solution that doesn't involve rewiring the scooter or bypassing the normal set-up. (which I understand doesn't work well on the US bikes).
Any easy solutions to this light problem?
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Monty, well im not going to buy the cdi being how it did nothing for your scoot. Someone else bought a controller and it did nothing either.........why doesent someone from KYMCO answer the question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yeah....I'd really like to know how to fix this headlight problem since I can't ride at night (not that I did too much anyway) and I'm riding with an expired inspection sticker.
I don't have a dealer anywhere near me, so I'm on my own as far as fixing this issue. I'm handy enough to replace parts, but no so much if it comes to rewiring the scooter to fix the problem.
Somebody please help.....
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Everyone should e-mail the USA Kymco office in Spartanburg SC and make a complaint. I called my local rep and she said she has only heard of one other Super 8 with the light problem. The dealers are fixing them but not complaining to Kymco to get a recall. The issue is wide spread and a huge safety concern.
It will take someone getting killed for them to take note if no one complains to them. Start making threats of a group class action lawsuit and they might give us a hand.
consumer.service@kymcousa.com
Also start making comments about it on their Facebook page about the light problem. https://www.facebook.com/KYMCO.Scooters?ref=share (https://www.facebook.com/KYMCO.Scooters?ref=share)
Twitter https://twitter.com/kymco_usa (https://twitter.com/kymco_usa)
Insagram http://instagram.com/kymco_usa (http://instagram.com/kymco_usa)
Youtube page http://www.youtube.com/kymcousa (http://www.youtube.com/kymcousa)
KYMCO USA
5 Stan Perkins Road
Spartanburg, SC 29307
864-327-4744
There is a recall on the 2011 Super 8 2t exhaust. http://kymcousa.com/recall/KYMCO-Recall-Document_May2013.pdf (http://kymcousa.com/recall/KYMCO-Recall-Document_May2013.pdf)
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I started a thread on the general section, maybe someone from Kymco will read it and address the problem. Pimpy add your info there, more people that complain the better!