KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: streido on August 10, 2012, 09:17:34 PM
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Just wondered how long you guys run rollers before they begin to get flat spots on them?
Seems mine only last about 8-10 weeks then i begin getting flat spots on them. I tried various makes and weights and most last around the same time before i need to replace them. I normally ride 18-20 miles per day, 5 days per week to work and back and if its dry i will usually nip about locally at weekends too so i reckon i get around 900-1100 miles from a set, does this tally up with what other are getting?
I am running a modded Agility 50cc so i run at high rpms almost always which will wear them down quicker i know, just wondered how others do on their rollers.
What brand do you find last longest if any? I found when i 1st opened up the variator the stock rollers in there seemed to be of a harder tyle of plastic than i have seen since and where more of an off-white/yellow colour but i have no idea what brand they are, they do look as tho they would last longer tho than any i have used since, just a pity theyre too heavy for my set-up now :(
Im running 1.4g lighter rollers than my stock right now but may go back up to 1g lighter, regardless tho they still last around the same time/distance.
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I have changed OEMs on A125 and P250 after 15.000 kms and they were still good, probably for 5-10.000 more kms.
Now I use Chinese cheap crap rollers (tm) from ebay, 7.000 kms on People and probably something like that on Agility, everything fine.
Dr. Pulley sliders got stuck after 900 kms in Agility's vario so I have removed them.
My 2 stroke scooters used to eat rollers much more. For example, Piaggio NRG 50, probably something like 5-6.000 kms.
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I have changed OEMs on A125 and P250 after 15.000 kms and they were still good, probably for 5-10.000 more kms.
Now I use Chinese cheap crap rollers (tm) from ebay, 7.000 kms on People and probably something like that on Agility, everything fine.
Dr. Pulley sliders got stuck after 900 kms in Agility's vario so I have removed them.
My 2 stroke scooters used to eat rollers much more. For example, Piaggio NRG 50, probably something like 5-6.000 kms.
Hmmm, interesting Axy. Take it your scoots were pretty much stock? I can only dream of getting that type of milage/kilometerage (is that even a word?).
I never buy cheapo rollers, only use brand name ones but i have still to find a make which will last more than a few months at most ???
Think as im running at higher rpms it acts more like a 2t on them and is wearing them a lot quicker. Was tempted to try sliders but i grudge paying so much for them and since i know now which roller weights work well in my set-up i really dont want to go thro a lkt kf trial, error and expense buying sliders that may or may not be the correct weight to achieve similair performance. Many folk say go a gramme lighter if going to sliders from rollers but i dont know, i never tried them.
I saw today my variator had a little (minimal) wear on the roller guides, where the side of the roller rubs due to the centrifugal force as it the variator spins. I smoothed it back down with a dremmel today to see if that helps any so time will tell.
Just feels most "performance" brandname rollers have softer plastic that wear quicker. May be worth trying some no name ones to see if they have harder plastic.
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If you change your mind on the Dr. Pulley sliders, I replaced the 15 g OEM rollers on my People 150 with 13 g sliders and they performed very similar.
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..malossi rollers are hard to beat for longevity..
..i do prefer sliders to rollers...they conform better to the ramp profile, and tend to last longer...
..they also offer a different acceleration profile...quicker, on most scoots, if dialed in right...
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Here I come again putting my mechanical knowledge on display. I have about 2500 miles on my Yager. By your conversation, I should have replaced mine a while ago. What are we talking about here? What are rollers. Should I be concerned? :-[
Richard L.
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..the yager, and most all larger cc engines don't wear rollers like the "tuned" 50cc scoots...
..we burn them up!!!
;D
..if you start to notice a top speed decrease after 10,000-15,000 kms, rollers would be a good place to start looking..
..but do keep in mind that these cvt parts do wear out and must be replaced!
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I have over 15,000 miles on my People s200... still running the original rollers and belt. I orderd these parts a long time ago but never found the time.
Scoot-on!
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If you change your mind on the Dr. Pulley sliders, I replaced the 15 g OEM rollers on my People 150 with 13 g sliders and they performed very similar.
By those figures i reckon using % i can use 4.5g sliders then? I may end up ordering a set of 5g 1st to try out when i got spare cash next.
Fshfndr, i would expect you are fine, my scoot is tuned and modded so runs a lot higher rpm than stock so will wear down parts much quicker than if it was stock, as i guess your is.
When the rollers go flat you will gradually notice a slowing of acceleration, responsiveness and even top speed too over weeks or months. When i got my scoot it was 3yrs old and 100% stock and still restricted, the previous owner was a woman who had it serviced once a yr at a dealers. It was due a service when i got it but when i did it the rollers where still fine even tho it had been a full year since a service.
If it runs good as it ways has then dont worry, you prob got plenty of life in them yet.
...........and Word posts as im typing all of the above and beats me to it. Lol :D
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..on my 08 agility, that i rode out from the dealer..my belt broke at 32,000kms...
..my rollers were so much dust and chunks...
..it's after that i found this forum...
;)
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..btw, kymco oem rollers are next to indestructible...
..they last longer than any aftermarket i've found...
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...here's a pic...
..fffuuglyyyy!!...
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...here's a pic...
..fffuuglyyyy!!...
Those look exactly like the kind were in the variator when i bought the scoot. Had about 7000km on it then so i bet they were the OEM factory fitted stock ones from new that had never been changed. I still have them in my garage and they have zero flat spots.
If i could get some of them at 5.5g then i would be well happy, no idea what make/brand they are tho? Kymco i guess? Or do you reckon Kymco buy them in off an outside manufacurer for their new scoots? Wish i could find a set of them new at the 5.5g's. :-\
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BTW Streido, I think you did the Roller --> Slider conversion wrong...you generally want Sliders that are about 1 gram Heavier than your Current rollers. So if you use 5g rollers you would buy 6g sliders. Quality sliders usually last Much longer then rollers so may be worth a shot and I too like the Acceleration curve on Sliders better. Goodluck to ya
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In OEM type machines I have always said to change rollers/ belt at one year intervalls. Malossi is the BEST roller I have used. They barely wear even after a full year of every day riding. CHEAP ROLLERS SUCK MONKEY WIND! They will flatten in a few weeks. I currently have Jasil (top racing) rollers, and after a few hundred miles they have no sign of wear.
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I use sliders in my daily kick. They've been in there for some 9000 kms, no function harming wear is present. I drive a People 50 during the day, and a evil addicting Super 9 on occasion. I must have tried 50 different combinations of setups (torque driver, springs, clutches, belts, rollers, and even variators) trying to get the best setup. In the end, the Dr. Pulley sliders rock for me.
On my race bike, I use regular rollers. If there are Dr. Pulley sliders below 3.5 grams, please tell me. My current suppliers don't have them. I guess I could send a note to unionmaterial, but you know... that takes less time than it took to compose this message, so it officially makes too much damned sense to correspond directly with the manufacturer.
~Josh
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Im going to order some sliders this week then i think and give them a go will prob order 6g sliders cos i know i can run on both 5.1g and 5.5g rollers with similair performance if i do a tweaks.
Will prob order a set of 5.3g Rollers too, sure the 5.1's i put in about May were Malossi's, i ordered them from SIP so i knkw they were'nt fake ass ones but yesterday i saw they were going flat :-\
I also think i'll drill out the OEM ones i have to around a gramme lighter on the drill press or try swap out the centres for 5.5g ones off an old set of flat rollers, that idea came to me in a vision last night :D Dont know why i never thought of it before :-\ Like Word says those OEM ones seem indestructable.
Thanks for the input ;)
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In OEM type machines I have always said to change rollers/ belt at one year intervalls. Malossi is the BEST roller I have used. They barely wear even after a full year of every day riding. CHEAP ROLLERS SUCK MONKEY WIND! They will flatten in a few weeks. I currently have Jasil (top racing) rollers, and after a few hundred miles they have no sign of wear.
Why annual change instead of according to mileage?
As I said, no problem with dirt cheap rollers here in any of my scoots that are otherwise OEM.
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Annual change is from marine habits. If you set a date for maintenance it is easier than tracking miles on all the different parts. I have lots of usable spares this way too. If the parts are still serviceable all the better. At least you will KNOW what is in there.
This part is all guess work for me put I THINK Malossi rollers are a Urethane compound. Most of the cheap ones are Nylon/graphite compounds. I've read that the Yamaha's use hardened steel.?.?.?
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..i ride 12,000 miles a year.. ;D
...i couldnt got that long....
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Annual change is from marine habits. I
Well, I ride my scooter now that I have a car for 5000 kms annually. Belt is after 15000 kms almost as good as new, so are roller weights.
The same for Agility, my gf does 8000 kms/year.
Doing yearly changes would be overkill. For my People, belt/rollers are changed every 3 years (and they are still good), every two for Agility.
I hope Kymco drivers are not retarded, so that they cannot keep a track of changed spare parts. I have a simple Excel sheet with mileage and changed parts.
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..yeah, a lot depends on riding styles as well..
..for instance, my s9 turns regularly, 8-10,000 rpms...
..that tends to wear out cvt bits much more often than say, an agility 125 turning 8000 max...
..plus, i punish my cvt bits...and that's why cheapo parts would likely leave me setting by the roadside...
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..for instance, i found this during one of my frequent..umm..inspections...
..cracked drive face...
clik pic
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Your belt may look fine Axy but have you ever measured it with a micrometer? Maybe it IS fine but like Word says, a lot has to do with riding style, terrain and rpm's generated thro the CVT. When i got my A50 it was still restricted and came from a lady owner who used it for a short town commute to work and back, so it had never been raced or driven hard or over 30mph. Belt and rollers were original, i stl have both items in my garage as emergency spares. The belt looked fine but a few months after i derestricted it and began tuning it i wanted to fit all new parts in there so went to my dealer to ask about ordering in a belt, his reply was "You dont need a belt, unless its snapped it will last forever. They rarely or never need changed". I knew very little then about cvt's or scoots in general so believed him at the time, then i joined this forum.
I eventually bought a micrometer just to check the belt was still good and found it was down to 16.5mm wide so i DID replace it. Rollers were still good but i wanted lighter ones, thats the only reason i swapped them out, otherwise i may still be using the originals even now.
Had i left it restricted and stock then i guess the belt may have still been good too. Stiffer torque springs, lighter rollers, higher rpm cdi's & race variators all help to raise rpm's and stress etc so in turn will wear down components a lot quicker.
Im sure you know all this anyway, only pointing it out for others who may not.
On the service intervals i always change my engine oil every 2000km +/- 100km or so, and do my gear oil every 2nd oil change. Whenever im doing my oils i always check the cvt too and give it all a clean out if nothing else needs doing in there, just gives me peace of mind if nothing else. Just did my oils today at 22,000 km's, easy to remember if you do it at 2000 km intervals. If i left it as yeay it wouldve packed in thousands of km's ago but i know the previous owner DID only have it done yearly, she told me and also it was in the Kymco service book, stamped by the dealer who did it, but then she did only 6500km or so in 3 yrs, i did about 10,00-12,000 in my 1st year of owning it.
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..you got your sh** together steroido!!!
S.T.E.R.O.I.D.O.
;D
..doing ALL the right things!!!..
8)
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..doing ALL the right things!!!..
Well if were talking scooters yes. Otherwise................probably not :D
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I've been doing fluids about every six weeks to stay on top of any new issues. Like Axy said yearly is overkill for alot of parts but you do get spares that way. Fluids should be done BEFORE storing for the "off season" If an engine sits w/ used fluids bad things happen to everything they touch. But the point is like Steroido said is to get a routine, and stick to it. Ignoring maintenance makes those scoots that you find grown over beside the tool shed..
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Your belt may look fine Axy but have you ever measured it with a micrometer?
...
Im sure you know all this anyway, only pointing it out for others who may not.
;)
Yes, I do, they are always within specs but I replace them anyway (because the variator casing is open, so to use the opportunity).
After 15.000 kms rollers have small flat spots that are not noticeable while driving.
However, as I said, my experience with 50 cc 2 stroke scooters is different and rollers need to be replaced roughly twice more often than with 4stroke scooters.
I hope you read that Kymco owners with 500 cc scoots report that belt has to be replaced after 25-30.000 kms. They are very durable.
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BEFORE storing for the "off season
Whats the "off season"? :D
Must be the couple of weeks in the year when i cant ride for snow. Not because it dangerous, just because i cant get the garage door open ;D
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Well you are hard core. Most of us 50cc guys ride year round. That's funny to think of. Tiny scoots all over the world riding in snow, sleet, ice, rain, mud, while the Tooidies put their precious machines inside under a comforter. I'd LOVE to tear into a 500 with a grinder, and some fiberglass. Maybe make a bar stool racer out of one.
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Its either the scoot or the bus so scoot wins always. I'd sooner try ride to work at 5-10mph than get the bus. I'd prob still beat the bus there too, public transport sucks and the salt they throw down for the ice was no good for the chrome on the beetle.
Got a Mazda too but the wife uses that Wed-Fri.
My A50 is my work-horse and my friend, he gets upset if i leave him home alone. Think i only missed about 2 weeks all in last yr and one of those was because i was off sick for a week (Snowboarding :D ).
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I just read a article on another forum (Can't remember which one) that said rollers go in a certain way. One side has more material on the side and this side doesen't wear as fast. Anyone else hear about this?
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..if you're looking at your variator...in the direction that you're installing the rollers, if a roller has more material on one "side", then the heavy material side should be to the left side of the roller, if the roller is being placed in the "top" roller ramp......
..get it?..
;D
..some rollers, and sliders do not have that extra material, and are equal, like the Malossi rollers...in this case i always put the printed side of the roller to the right, so that the writing remains on the roller longer...
;)
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I just read a article on another forum (Can't remember which one) that said rollers go in a certain way. One side has more material on the side and this side doesen't wear as fast. Anyone else hear about this?
Yeah, like Word said, some do some dont. If both ends look the same then they can go in either way.
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By those figures i reckon using % i can use 4.5g sliders then? I may end up ordering a set of 5g 1st to try out when i got spare cash next.
Fshfndr, i would expect you are fine, my scoot is tuned and modded so runs a lot higher rpm than stock so will wear down parts much quicker than if it was stock, as i guess your is.
When the rollers go flat you will gradually notice a slowing of acceleration, responsiveness and even top speed too over weeks or months. When i got my scoot it was 3yrs old and 100% stock and still restricted, the previous owner was a woman who had it serviced once a yr at a dealers. It was due a service when i got it but when i did it the rollers where still fine even tho it had been a full year since a service.
If it runs good as it ways has then dont worry, you prob got plenty of life in them yet.
...........and Word posts as im typing all of the above and beats me to it. Lol :D
Word & Striedo, thanks for the info.
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...streido gettin sssllowww...lol..
:-*
..welcome fish!!!..
When the rollers go flat you will gradually notice a slowing of acceleration, responsiveness and even top speed too over weeks or months. When i got my scoot it was 3yrs old and 100% stock and still restricted, the previous owner was a woman who had it serviced once a yr at a dealers. It was due a service when i got it but when i did it the rollers where still fine even tho it had been a full year since a service.
..them oem rollers are some long lasting rollers!!..even punished they last a long time...
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..if you're looking at your variator...in the direction that you're installing the rollers, if a roller has more material on one "side", then the heavy material side should be to the left side of the roller, if the roller is being placed in the "top" roller ramp......
..get it?..
I do! Just patted myself on the back ;D
;)
I really didn't know that. Ya learn somethin new everyday. Especially on KF ;D
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..YES!!...
..another satisfied customer!!!
;D
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..them oem rollers are some long lasting rollers!!..even punished they last a long time...
Yup, im sure the ones in mine when i bought it were the original factory rollers and the scoot was exactly 3 yr old with 6500km on it. They were still good.
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changed mine when i got the bike 11000km and still factory ones. they had nice flat sides