KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: The Rookie on July 28, 2012, 06:39:52 AM
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Looking at rebuilding the engine in my daughters bike, for those who missed the other thread it was burning so much oil it went from full to empty in about 130miles and the piston and bore are lunched, I need to check the big end and main bearings as well before deciding whether to repair or not, so any how to guide links, workshop manual links etc much appreciated...
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Or buy a new engine. Everything brand new including CVT. costs around 400 USdollars..
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Bike not worth it.....besides what's the point, may as well rebuild it.
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OK, conrod all seems good so it's just a barrel and piston job, also found it's lost a lot of oil as the breather valve has broken (the one in front of the engine to the right).
Both circlips out the piston, gudgeon pin not moving, does it need some force?
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You could push or pull but damage the conrod and bearing if you don't have a support. Also, whacking it out might also swell it and likewise damage the conrod. You can take it to a shop with a press.
Whack it out and just buy the assembly if you happen to damage the conrod.... ;D ;D ;D
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Use a "C" clamp to drive a same size socket thru. A larger socket will act as a cup/sleeve on the opposite side. No worries about the piston. Before you install the new piston you can drill a 3/32" hole in each pin boss so that will not happen again
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Cool, sockets and G clamp I have!
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OK the pin is still stuck in the conrod, the holes in the piston wouldn't help as the piston is free on the Pin, is the pin an interference fit in the rod - if so why the circlips....
Can't get much leverage with a clamp, may try a hub puller next!
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Hub puller worked, small piece of circlip had snapped off and were stuck in the groove, so pin now out, conrod OK, so rebuild time, anyone got some info on torques or cam timing, most the rest I think I can figure out.
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Got these from the AG50 service manual.
Valve clearance 0.04mm
Oil needed for a rebuild 0.85 litre
Idle speed 1900 rpm +/- 100rpm
Cylinder head bolt 0.7-1.1 kg-m
Cam change tensioner slipper bolt 0.4-0.7 kg-m
Cylinder head flange nut 1.2-1.6 kg-m
Valve adjusting locknut 0.07-0.09 kg-m
Oil bolt 1.1-1.5 kg-m
Oil filter screen cap 1-2 kg-m
Hope that helps a little :)
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That's great thanks Jezy, now just need to know how to set the cam timing!
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Turn the flywheel so that the “T†mark on the flywheel aligns with the index mark on the crankcase. Keep the round hole on the camshaft gear facing up and align the punch marks on the camshaft gear with the cylinder head surface (Position the intake and exhaust cam lobes down.) and install the camshaft onto the cylinder head. Install the cam chain over the camshaft gear.
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Thanks for that, most that I can figure, but where do I see the T on the f/wheel, is that through the hole in the front of the clutch housing?
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Thanks for that, most that I can figure, but where do I see the T on the f/wheel, is that through the hole in the front of the clutch housing?
I think it is through the hole in front of the clutch should index mark on the crankcase and just align the two up.
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The timing marks are on the flywheel. The right side of the engine.
This is my favorite explanation... http://ebay.globaldc.com/scooterparts/borekits/100ccGY6/install/bbk.html (http://ebay.globaldc.com/scooterparts/borekits/100ccGY6/install/bbk.html)
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Thanks Zombie, very useful and just what I needed.
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;) 8)
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Just to close this out, engine all rebuilt (some time lost as I was out the country for 2 weeks and came back sick) and now running sweater than ever!
New parts much better than original, Piston was lighter with oilways for pin bore and addituional skirt oil holes as well as being Molybedum coated.
Thanks all for your help, although the quote in your sig sucks Zombie...I'm sure you wouldn't want me to start quotting Timothy McVeigh...
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Good to hear. Glad it all sweet now :)
although the quote in your sig sucks Zombie
No it doesnt, youre just an Englishman and not a Celt so dont get it :P
Mr Sands M.P was a true hero and i applaud everything he stood for, McVeigh was a lone nut who was not fighting for any cause but that in his little warped mind, but then i come from THAT side of Glasgow ;D
Tiocfaidh ár lá my English neighbour :D
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Since the Rookie's scoot's well and running, I guess we can make this a quote thread.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
"I don't care if I fall as long as someone else picks up my gun and keeps on shooting" -
Che Guevara
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A true hero with illegal guns and a member of an organisation who had no qualms about terrorising their own community for their own ends......
Reasonable quote Vivo!
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Weeeeellll Rooks, i know for a fact the catholic community were 99% behind the Provos ( obviously tbe Loyalists where 100% against tho), in the same way the Cuban community were 99% behind Che and Fidel.
If the community were NOT behind the movement then the Provos or the 26th of July Movement in Cuba then there is no way these movements could ever have survived or operated as they did. I have personal experience of it, growing up in a city divided by the Irish situation and religion, they called the area i lived in "Little Ireland". I also have many, many friends and family from the Irish Republic and used to go there at least every few years on holiday as a kid and teenager so saw some and heard of some crazy sh** 1st hand.
I can understand how people say they were terrorists but looking at it as a whole i cant say tbe Provos did anything which was worse than that which was done to them or the catholic community by the British over the years. Not making excuses but just saying what i saw and know happened. I used to be amazed and facinated by the whole "war" and once i got older i did a lot of research into the whole situation. After studying it all i have to say i may not have always agreed with ALL tactics and operations but overall i have nothing but admiration for their commitment and sacrifice to end the occupation of their country and gain equal civil & human rights for the catholic community after centuries of being dominated and abused by the Brits.
Btw, i am Atheist not catholic so tbe religion aspect has no bearing on my stance, i just hate seeing any community or nation being bullied, used & abused and denied equality by ANY government or country.
Che was one of my greatest heroes, thats why i got him tattooed on my shoulder :). Mandella is also a huge personal inspiration for me too, a living saint. (if i believed in all that saintly crap :P )
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I got a pull start for ya. lol
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I got a pull start for ya. lol
:D lol :D
Im sayin nothin ::)
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Weeeeellll Rooks, i know for a fact the catholic community were 99% behind the Provos ( obviously tbe Loyalists where 100% against tho), in the same way the Cuban community were 99% behind Che and Fidel.
Of course all those who recieved punishment beatings and kneecappings were behind them........far from 99% supported the provo's even if they were nationalists, I've worked with enough NI catholics to know 99% is hopelessly optimistic!
The Provo's killed more catholics than they did loyalists or those they considered 'British', not that the loyalist paramilitaries were any better.
Although the segregation of Ireland was in my opinion a mistake, after that self determination as stated by league of nations and then UN was being adhered to, remember the army was first in NI to protect the catholics from the protestants.
Frankly all paramilitaries in NI were as bad as each other, I don't hold any truck with any of them, most of the more intelligent were in it for what they could get for themselves, the rest they treated as 'cannon fodder' (more metaphorical than literal).
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I love you. You love me. Were a happy family. (Barney the Dinosaur)
"I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here." --at the President's Economic Forum in Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002 ( our lovely ex world leader. G Bush)
"Do you have blacks, too?" --to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001 (same guy)
Castro was never loved by the Cuban people. He was bought, and paid for by Meyer Lansky / Sam Giancana. The same people that told Joseph Kennedy to keep his ass in Canada making booze. (Seagram's) Cuba is still suffering because of American gangsters. (Kennedy specifically)
back to what started this... IF Bobby Sands directly hurt another person thru his actions I do not know of it. Willfully starving a man to death is barbaric in any definition. There must be some (unknown to me) joy in bullying.
There are two lessons I learned the day Bobby died.
NEVER GIVE IN! And: The people that have NOTHING are the people that have souls.
I stand by the quote, and MR. SANDS. "Our revenge will be the laughter of our children."
Bobby Sands
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One more... I have a 26 year old daughter, and two grandkids. We have been talking at length about re-claiming our heritage in Ireland. I'm very upset to have to call myself an American when in FACT I am not. Born here, yes. Would I die for this country? I'd rather not! There is no moral code here. The dollar is God in America. I don't want to get old, and die in a place I have no love for, and I want MY babies to have the PRIDE that has been missing thru my entire life.
At 53 years old I think it's time to get it together, and be where my family is/was/always shall be.
"The McLaughlins and O'Neills were descended from a long line of Irish High Kings who trace their ancestry to the fabled Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', who died in 505 A.D. Nial's son Owen established the kingdom of Tirowen in present day county Tryone and for centuries this dynastic line ruled the North of Ireland from its royal seat at the Grianan of Aileach near Derry in Donegal. Their kings were styled Kings of Aileach and later Lords of the Cinel Eoghain by the Irish annalists, many of whom were High Kings of Ireland. In the 10th century the Kings of Aileach moved their royal seat to Tullahoge in Tyrone, the later coronation site of the O'Neill kings of Tryone. The McLaughlins and O'Neills were the royal dynasty of the tribe known as the northern Ui Neill, or descendants of Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', whose progeny also included the O'Donnell Kings of Tirconnell, the O Melaghlin Kings of Westmeath (the southern Ui Neill), and the O'Connor Kings of Connacht in western Ireland."
You picked the wrong fight Rookie!
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99% was just a figure i plucked out my head Rook, i was too lazy to look up exact figures but then nobody would know anyway really would they? The point is the majority, by a long way, did support the provos and the IRA before them. Had it not been for these brave fighters then i doubt the situation in Ireland would be as settled and good as it is today and the Catholics would still have little or no rights and would still be run by the rich and wealthy protestant land owners and their lackies.
The original IRA and the original Provo organisation where true freedom fighters who fought for the rights of their people because they drew their strength and recruits from the republican areas. Yes the army was sent in initially to protect the catholics from protestant attacks, and they were welcomed by the catholics, but this very swiftly changed and lasted only weeks. Families saw sons interned in Long kesh for simply being catholic or living in the wrong area and the whole situation was fu©ked up. I blame Thatcher, but then i blame her for a whole load of sh** and fkr being the cause of many of the problems in our country today, she was a mental bitch.
Today many of these groups, on both sides, are mainly involved in drugs, crime and protection rackets to make money and most of the members are basically gangster or thugs. Back in the day this was not the case tho.
Im just glad it has died down and both sides now mostly want peace and are willing to give up violence. I can see things flaring back up tho in the future if the underlying problem is ignored, ie British rule over Northern Ireland.
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"I blame Thatcher, but then i blame her for a whole load of sh** and fkr being the cause of many of the problems in our country today, she was a mental bitch."
After I hit "post" before... That was the exact thought I realized I had forgotten to post. Mental Bitch...
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Cuimnig do geallamnaca....
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Somethings are forever. Can't change the blood
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Willfully starving a man to death is barbaric in any definition.
He starved himself to death, in fact there was a big furore over him being force fed to keep him alive!
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lol what is going on here. my head is about to explode
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lol....... my head is about to explode
You get used to that and it just become the norm :D
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Margret Thatcher starved him to death. All she had to do was admit He was in fact a political prisoner, and reinstate IRA prisoners POW status under the Geneva Convention. It was a no brainer. Actually it did work out for the better. Modern Irish kids had a new Martor to look up to, and really everything has changed since (except for one small patch of cancer that is dying off as we speak)
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Margret Thatcher starved him to death. All she had to do was admit He was in fact a political prisoner, and reinstate IRA prisoners POW status under the Geneva Convention. It was a no brainer. Actually it did work out for the better. Modern Irish kids had a new Martor to look up to, and really everything has changed since (except for one small patch of cancer that is dying off as we speak)
:) The number of Scots who are upset when the wicked old witch kicks it could be counted on one hand. She and her party are still hated here and i suspect always will be. Good ridance, just wish she would hurry up and get on with it so we can all celebrate. My beers are on ice ;D
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burn the witch.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*
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Margret Thatcher starved him to death. All she had to do was admit He was in fact a political prisoner, and reinstate IRA prisoners POW status under the Geneva Convention. It was a no brainer. Actually it did work out for the better. Modern Irish kids had a new Martor to look up to, and really everything has changed since (except for one small patch of cancer that is dying off as we speak)
Kind of shows what a pathetic inept grasp of what happened you have and along with most americans kind of explains your fairly inept foreign policy over the years (Iraq...no strategy for after winning the war to win the peace).
Under the Geneva convention if the IRA were POW's theycould all have been shot for being out of uniform, something I'm sure they didn't want, but could ask for knowing it would never happen.
America was long a supporter of overseas terrorism but the attitude changed somewhat when you were on the recieving end, as soon as American support dried up the IRA came to the negotiating table and we now have relative peace in Northern Ireland.
He wasn't a political prisoner and therefor shouldn't have been called one, he was tried and convicted of criminal offences.
P.S. It's Martyr, not 'Irish kids' but the Catholic Minority in NI I presume you meant, the Irish mericans forget that the Majority of the Irish in NI want to be British, it's called self determination, something you Americans are usually keen on supporting.
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One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.........guy was a hero and will be remembered by many for his sacrifice and bravery, or by others on the other side as some guy who starved himself. Thatcher on the other hand........well we all know about her and her legacy :D
Love them or loathe them, the PIRA DID help bring about the change to Ireland we see today, there is no denying this, it is fact. That rag-tag group of farmers, council estate dwellers and brave men & women managed to give as good as they got , they actually gave better than they got, and kept the might of the British Army at bay for 30 years and ultimately thro Sinn Fein, their political wing, they forced the change in civil rights and equality for all Catholic citizens that they now enjoy. The PIRA was formed in '69 to protect Catholic and Irish families who were burned out their homes in the north ny unionist/orange groups after the unionist Stormont Gov did nothing to protect them, and neither did the British btw until they sent in the British Army. It was the bias shown by the Brits toward the Unionists, the lack of civil rights for Irish and Catholics in the North, the propping up of the Unionist Stormont gov by the Brits, and the detention of hundreds of innocent young men who were interned in Long Kesh which drove most toward the Provos. Not many other movements, armies or militias can claim to have fought the British Army to a stale-mate. I would have signed up in a minute too if i had been Irish/Catholic and living under those conditions.
Ireland will be re-united, no doubt about it, its only a matter of time.
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Where's 080?..... ;D ;D ;D
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Where's 080?..... ;D ;D ;D
He's living under an assumed name, and dressed as a woman somewhere in bolivia. :D
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Your right Streido, the British Army was hamstrung by dealing with PIRA (or the more numerous loyalists paramilitary's) in a way that they didn't want to, as terrorists, had they truly operated a shoot on site war like campaign (one can think back to the Boer wars in South Africa) and been given a free reign it would have ended much sooner but would have been wrong in many ways (thinking of the Boer war again) The trouble is if you treat it as a war you do wrong (Boer concentration camps), treat it as terrorism and it makes putting and end to any 'violence' much harder.
The majority of Catholics in NI wanted a peaceful resolution, which is why only a minority of them voted Sinn Fein during the troubles, the Majority did not, once the terrorism stopped the lot of the many people in NI on both sides has been vastly improved, so the terrorists held up that advancement for 30 years, well done them, I bet 2 whole generations are pleased with that......
Before you get the wrong idea though, I have no more time for the 'Loyalist' (Oxymoron) thugs either.
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had they truly operated a shoot on site war like campaign
Like the SAS did in Gibraltar in Operation Flavius?
All 3 sides did wrong but the wrong of the Brits is only recently being revealed and most of it wont come out ever. It wasnt called the Dirty War for nothing. Im just glad its all pretty much over now apart from a few hardcore loons still trying to fan the flame again. Life is without a doubt much better for all now. I just get pissed when its made out the Brits where all saintly and the IRA were the demons cos both sides murdered innocents and both sides commited terrible acts for their own "cause". I would stand with anyone tho who is defending their own country from occupation. Things are no different now in other foreign lands where theBrits and Americans are made out to be the good guys and everyone who opposes them are "terrorists". Maybe is the US and UK stopped pushing and bullying everyone while they try to keep power and build their empires there wouldnt be so much bad feelings towards them. Least thats my take on the whole sh**ty mess..... :-\
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Just to correct one error (most the rest I agree with), Northern Island, under UN rules on self determination is British as the majority of the populace want it British (Rights and wrongs of segregation in the first place aside), as such there was no 'occupation'.
Mistakes happen when dealing with bomb plots (JC De Menezes) that doesn't mean it's a shoot to kill policy, and in fact the similarities are very obvious (except they really were bombers).
No doubt, Afghanistan is a classic really, we (US and Britain) take one side in a civil war and expect everyone to be grateful, as often happens the rights or wrongs get lost on the one side (who will now unite though they were infighting before) against the common 'enemy', no different to the many Germans who fought in WW2 who hated Hitler but fought for Germany.
Iraq could have worked, but it was blundered, demobbing the army and shutting down the Police was just stupid.
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Well it's all been said. The bottom line is NO country belongs on another' soil unless they are invited. The US is just as culpable as GB in meddling. This is not an exercise in global affairs... Bottom line is mind your business, and let others mind theres. The time of empires is over. The Dollar rules now, that makes China the new world leader. Lucky China. Lucky all of us. I'll never understand the language but as long as I get scooter parts... Who cares.
Ps... The IRA does have Geneva rights today. Calling a cat a dog does not make it a dog.
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Hey guys, sorry to get off topic, but does anyone know the length of the valves on the stock head. Are they 69 or 64mm long? Thanks in advance.
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Hey guys, sorry to get off topic, but does anyone know the length of the valves on the stock head. Are they 69 or 64mm long? Thanks in advance.
WTF do you think this is Jaws, a scooter forum or something? Jeez :P
:) But seriously, no idea buddy. If nobody answers here soon i would post under a new topic in this section and someone will give you the info you need . :D
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Sums it up for me really.....
Paul McCartney - Give Ireland back to the Irish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaO4XeHhwo8#)
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WTF do you think this is Jaws, a scooter forum or something? Jeez :P
:) But seriously, no idea buddy. If nobody answers here soon i would post under a new topic in this section and someone will give you the info you need . :D
Lol sorry about that, what was I thinking!
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Hey guys, sorry to get off topic, but does anyone know the length of the valves on the stock head. Are they 69 or 64mm long? Thanks in advance.
Stock head of what?
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Well it's all been said. The bottom line is NO country belongs on another' soil unless they are invited.
You miss the point as do most in the US, and Streido will agree, the Majority of the population in Northern Ireland wished to be British, so the British army (and mostly Irish manned police) were NOT on anothers soil at all, as they were on British soil as would be defined under the UN section on self determination.
The IRA have no 'Geneva rights' as such as they do not confer rights on anyone except by definition, not sure what your babbling on about, however at the time of the 'troubles' the IRA were neither fighting as an army (in uniform) so if they claimed to be fighting a war all could be shot as spies under the Geneva Convention, nor were they political prisoners as all had commited (and most were proud to state they had) criminal offences that would be criminal offences in most countries.
Remember that during the troubles most victims were Irish, it was Irish killing Irish most the time, very analogous to Iraq in that respect with the 'security' forces being a secondary target, something again most the US 'supporters' fail to realise.
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Hey guys, sorry to get off topic, but does anyone know the length of the valves on the stock head. Are they 69 or 64mm long? Thanks in advance.
They are 64mm in the GY6 50cc's. Just one or two brands use 69mm
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Ok... "Well it's all been said. The bottom line is NO country belongs on another' soil unless they are invited.
You miss the point as do most in the US, and Streido will agree, the Majority of the population in Northern Ireland wished to be British, so the British army (and mostly Irish manned police) were NOT on anothers soil at all, as they were on British soil as would be defined under the UN section on self determination."
Most of the people in NI were/are Protestant pigs. They did never nor will ever speak for Ireland. It's like saying the Italians in the bronx decieded that Italy will now control the Bronx. It's f***ing ridiculous. f*** the UN if they see it otherwise. f*** anybody that sees it otherwise.
What's with you friggin Brits going on about what clothes a person wears when they murder. A proper outfit for that is there? Geniva rights maintained the HUMAN (not humane) conditions necessary for life. Not much else. The Irish prisoners were held under the prisons. They were left to rot by inbred pigs with the moral code of face f***ing baboons. If you don't know ,you don't know. If you are one of those douches that tries to make words change facts then there is really nothing further to discuss. As for stupid sh** like Irish on Irish crime... Who were they supposed to kill Iraqi's? Every war has defectors, and traitors. Other people have heritage, and loyalty.
I imagine Hell as an endless prison. All sorts of maleficence happening. Over in one dark, sewage smelling, lice infested section of the prison yard is a gang. Rumors have it there is an evil entity controlling their actions. It's the most despised group of beings in hell. I have seen this gang... It's the Brit's. There's alot of them too. They were easy targets on Earth because they all wore Pea Cock fathers in their silly "war hats". You all really do look alike.
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The bottom line is NO country belongs on another' soil unless they are invited.
That's why Magellan was killed the moment he landed on our shores on March 16, 1521. But we "welcomed" the Americans when they came because they had chocolate bars, butter and Marlboros... and they were kinda cute...
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They are 64mm in the GY6 50cc's. Just one or two brands use 69mm
Awesome! Thanks zombie
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Most of the people in NI were/are Protestant pigs.
Sorry didn't realise I was dealing with a someone so ignorant, my mistake for trying to use logic, the Protestants in Ireland are just as Irish as the Catholics, wake up and smell the coffee like they have in NI!
You are a dinosaur, which I guess is as dead as a Zombie.
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You miss the point as do most in the US, and Streido will agree, the Majority of the population in Northern Ireland wished to be British, so the British army (and mostly Irish manned police) were NOT on anothers soil at all, as they were on British soil as would be defined under the UN section on self determination.
Well technically yes they did want to be brits, but then these folk in the northern 6 ( i think) provinces of Ireland were all protestant and Anglican decendants of Lowland Scots and English settlers who "invaded" in the 1600's after Englands king decided he wanted to rule Irleand as well as england wales and scotland, good old Henry 8th again, the fat bastard. Most irish catholics were forced into the southern half of Ireland but continued to resist their new rulers from england. After many wars and battles eventually the south was given up and declared the irish republic but the north, still populated by the decendants of those protestant invaders wanted to remain brits so given the north was mostly all consisted of these folk it was declared british since their heritage was british, historically it was not british tho.
Imo the whole of Ireland ought to have been given a vote on the north, not just the north. In fact Oreland ahould never have been oartitioned at all in the 1st place, the brits shouldve apologised and gave back ALL of Ireland instead of just the south. If those of brit decent wanted to remain brits then england should have offered them refuge in england where they couldve lived on as brits and irelamd couldve got back to being ireland and irish.
The situation is now that experts predict the protestant majority in the north will be overtaken by the irish catholic minority very soon due to birth rates over the years so sooner or later tje people will decide to re-unite ireland, probably peacefully thro a vote on their nationallity, unless London blocks it, then the war will start all over again.
As for IRA not wearing uniform....they were a resistance army. The French resistance in WW2 wore no uniform yet we dont condemn them, we applaud them for resisting the invading forces and trying to win back their nation. The SAS and undercover army and police wore no uniform either. You cant have a resistance army if you broadcast that you are resistance, cant work if your up against a superpower type nation with better means, money, power, wealth and numbers than you have, you could never win.
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Fingers too big for this phone, cant be arsed fixing my typo's in last post so just live with it. Sure you can work out what i meant.
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"You are a dinosaur, which I guess is as dead as a Zombie."
Tee Hee! Giggle, giggle, giggle... How do you kill a zombie? Pick his brain.
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There is enough hatred around this subject already. I simply don't understand how there can be an opposing point of view on this. Maybe Italy will do better ruling the Bronx.
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Propaganda works wonders and the UK and US gov's are masters at it, they always have been, bit like the Third Reich were, but without the moustache.........
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In fact Oreland ahould never have been oartitioned at all in the 1st place,
As for IRA not wearing uniform....they were a resistance army. The French resistance in WW2 wore no uniform yet we dont condemn them, we applaud them for resisting the invading forces and trying to win back their nation. The SAS and undercover army and police wore no uniform either. You cant have a resistance army if you broadcast that you are resistance, cant work if your up against a superpower type nation with better means, money, power, wealth and numbers than you have, you could never win.
First point I've already agreed with, but what was done was done, then giving the whole of Ireland the vote would go against UN guidelines on self determination, also the carnage that was likley to be foisted on the Protestants is easily imaginable (for understandable reasons in some cases), remember the British Army was there originally to protect the Catholics from the Protestant majority in the North.
And the French resistance were shot......if you claim to be fighting a war and want to be POW's under the Geneva convention, you have to take the rough with the smooth, likewise you can't be two faced like Zombie and want protection under the Geneva convention (though he's not defined what part as the part he's suggesting doesn't exist) yet ignore other international law as being inconveniant.
Zombie you are clearly very ignorant of a lot of the facts and suggest you actually start finding out the truth before mouthing off about stuff you clearly have no idea about at all, if your view stays the same then fine, but at least it will be based on fact not some myth passed on and enhanced to the point that what you've been stating as fact bears less resemblance to the truth than many of the produce of the brothers Grimm!
Perhaps Zombie will tell us when he's going to leave his home to the native Americans and get the hell out?
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There is enough hatred around this subject already. I simply don't understand how there can be an opposing point of view on this.
Wasnt me..... ::) ::) ::)
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Today would suit me fine. Perhaps 3 days after the third Friday in November. I'll let you know if I need anything for the trip. Thanx...
While I couldn't name a place or fit a time to an event I clearly don't give a rats ass about the details. This is a moral issue. Not knowing what the part number is on an air filter has nothing to do with what it does or how it works. I know a wrong has been done, and mis guided people (like you) have no concern for the people involved in these actions. My guess would be you were/are involved in some sort of police/military/had you dog killed by the IRA. I can tell you are one of those type aA people that just need to be humbled enough to see when a true crime is committed. The Limey's can have NI... Just not while it's attached to Ireland. Are you related to 008?
Now if that's not an educated response to some Blah Blah stuff...
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A more reasoned responce.
I try and see both sides of an argument, yes horrendous crimes have been commited against the Irish, but in an era and at a time when such things were considered normal and acceptable practice (like the taking of native American lands by the white settlers, very analagous), but it's impossible to re-write history, at any given point you have to start with what you have at that here and now.
Seperating Ireland in the first place was wrong, but it happened, so 40 odd years later there was no point trying to say it shouldn't have happened, besides had it been reunited then it would now be totally bankrupt as the republic owes a LOT of money (much to the British government who baled them out).
The British army did first move back (in force) into NI to protect the catholics, that is fact, Bloody Sunday was a stupid F'up and dreadful, it was the wrong people (the para's) with the wrong mindset and tranining (for war) in the wrong place doing the wrong job, but it happened, the many years of violence from BOTH SIDES was wrong, the moderates on both sides of the divide during this time outnumbered the pro violence (look at voting history), I strongly dislike the Protestant marches as they are a real 'ram it down the throat' provocation and childish in the extreme, however the fact is that once the violence ended (on both sides) the lot of everyone has improved immensely, NI is now run as a pseudo autonomous state which while making neither side 100% happy, at least makes both sides happier.
Also remember that during the troubles the majority of organised crime in the area was controlled by the paramilitary's on both sides, prostitution, drugs, smuggling (tobacco and alcohol), protection, hardly (either side) great freedom fighters for their people!
That the IRA were in league with that bastion of world peace Gadhafi who the US also loved to hate seems strange.
I would remind you who's government brokered the Good Friday agreement that started the 'outbreak of peace'.
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That the IRA were in league with that bastion of world peace Gadhafi who the US also loved to hate seems strange.
Gaddafi and friends !? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxzDme7tq20#)
JUst sayin......
Tony B.Liar was a great guy,for a couple of years,then he seemed to have some kinda brain disorder and went insane destroying both the Labour party and the UK's standing around the world. He dragged this countrydown to the same level of hatred around the world as the US had. His dad was a Tory so i even suspect he was a plant, or at the very least an ego-maniac.Maybe it was just his Mid-Life crisis,same as when he converted to Catholism. I want to vomit everytime i see him now,just glad i never ever voted for him so my concience is clear on that one, i was out of the country when he got elected that 1st time.
True he had the balls to at least talk to the IRA in public,but these talks had gone on since almost the start of the troubles behind closed doors between the IRA/Sinn Fein and the British Gov, even under Thatcher. Theay are all just in it for themselves these days to get whatever they can from all us assholes on the ground.
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Hey no love for Bliar either! Especially the manipulation for the release of Al Magrahi via the Scottish parliament....
Brown was an idiot, still not sure about Cameron!
I dislike and distrust proffesional politicians, let them do 'something' first.
Of course gov'ts were talking to IRA/SF, would have been stupid not to, no-one was winning anything during the troubles, not everything was resolved by the GFA, a lot was improving from a long way before that (circa 1986 under Thatcher, I remember the anti-campaigns against any talks) in terms of moving towards a settlement, yes it took a long time, but that was when it started.
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A more reasoned responce.
I try and see both sides of an argument, yes horrendous crimes have been commited against the Irish, but in an era and at a time when such things were considered normal and acceptable practice (like the taking of native American lands by the white settlers, very analagous), but it's impossible to re-write history, at any given point you have to start with what you have at that here and now.
Seperating Ireland in the first place was wrong, but it happened, so 40 odd years later there was no point trying to say it shouldn't have happened, besides had it been reunited then it would now be totally bankrupt as the republic owes a LOT of money (much to the British government who baled them out).
The British army did first move back (in force) into NI to protect the catholics, that is fact, Bloody Sunday was a stupid F'up and dreadful, it was the wrong people (the para's) with the wrong mindset and tranining (for war) in the wrong place doing the wrong job, but it happened, the many years of violence from BOTH SIDES was wrong, the moderates on both sides of the divide during this time outnumbered the pro violence (look at voting history), I strongly dislike the Protestant marches as they are a real 'ram it down the throat' provocation and childish in the extreme, however the fact is that once the violence ended (on both sides) the lot of everyone has improved immensely, NI is now run as a pseudo autonomous state which while making neither side 100% happy, at least makes both sides happier.
Also remember that during the troubles the majority of organised crime in the area was controlled by the paramilitary's on both sides, prostitution, drugs, smuggling (tobacco and alcohol), protection, hardly (either side) great freedom fighters for their people!
That the IRA were in league with that bastion of world peace Gadhafi who the US also loved to hate seems strange.
I would remind you who's government brokered the Good Friday agreement that started the 'outbreak of peace'.
Finally a post I 100% agree with. It seems everything in there is the only way to look at it. Of course bad tactical decisions were made on both sides, and moneys to make actions did come from "less than perfect" sources. My entire reason for getting involved in this conversation was only to point out the Brtis do not/Did not belong there any more than they belonged on American soil (native). I've said it before... It's an antiquated regime that believes occupation entitles ownership. I'll see if I can find you an "IRA sponsor" book bag or bumper sticker.
If you need any help w/ the scoot just ask. That's why I'm here.
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So is it time for a big group hug now ???
Or is that just gay :-\
:P
I love this place. One minute we all want to murder one another and the next were all fine again :)
So......scooters eh? Anyone like em? :D
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I'm burning my scoot as I post. I just found out British people have scooters. It's like my Timberland boots, and HillFiger clothes. Had to burn them too. Why does everyone take from the white man?
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I think we're getting there, but Zombie can I SUGGEST you check
1/ Why the British army (strictly UK army actually as NI is not part of Britain but is part of the UK) went into NI in the first place, it was to protect the Catholics from the Protestants (you so dislike so should appreciate that)
2/ UN rules for self determination, once Ireland was divided it would be agaisnt international law to force the majority (protestants mostly, but does include some catholics) to leave the UK and become part of a foreign country (Eire), dividing Ireland was probably a bad idea in the first place, but I'd refer you to what happened in India after independance (with the 2 sides (Muslims and Hindus in that case) promptly slaughtering each other to the point the British army was asked to intervene and take control back by the new Indian president), so no guarentees that would have achieved anything either.
At least that way you have the facts when it comes to making up your mind, Streido and I have agreed to disagree based on at least the facts, but some of what you have said is so far from factually accurate as to be disturbing, I doubt it will fundamentaly change your mind but at least you'll be able to seperate some truth from myth.
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I understand your points. That does not change the injustice. I've compared the Bronx a few times so this time lets try Miami. 30 or so years ago there was a black professor that was beaten by cops. They were found not guilty of Police Brutality. Liberty City riots began. Now this is a predominately black area. Idi Amin's army did not step forward to protect the people of Miami from the rioting blacks because that would just be INSANE. Same w/ NI.
I understand it is not as simple as that. The principle is the same however. Idi had no business here any more than Margret had any business there.
Lets suppose the whole of Ireland was killing Protestants for whatever reason... that is a National affair. Turn it around for a moment... The Protestants are killing Catholics so the Brits decide to help the poor Catholics by occupying the country? Lets just say that was a GREAT favor, and the BEST thing that could ever happen. Why are they still there?
I really dont care about dates/times/names/events... When the party is over you don't go to sleep in the hosts bed. You go home.
This party has been over for what 45 years?
No ill will Rookie. It's not your fault you were born a Brit. If I were born in the UK I would most likely be spitting on those damn lazy Irish mutts myself. Drunken, tobacco smoking, singing, and dancing bastards. Who ever heard of living a simple life, and enjoying your family before going to work 60 hours a week at the Nuke Plant. You're right Rookie! Fu(k those lazy Irish bastards. Can I come live at your house till I get on my feet, and find a anti Irish group to join. It's about time someone rid the world of them.
Thanks for walking me thru my miss guided ways. Now if you would PLEASE go break anything on your scoot so I can stop worrying about what Irish bastard is going to sneak up, and put a bomb up my bum. I feel smarter already.
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OK, just to try and address a few points....
When Eire was given independance (long overdue) from Britain, Northern Ireland existed in a mostly peaceful state as part of the UK for a number of years with a relatively small army contingent (much as you'd find as an average in any part of the rest of the UK - my Uncle served there in 1951 as part of a small garrison at a time when they could walk the streets normally), then Eire having settled and matured the nationalists decided (as is their right) that they wanted a Unified Ireland (I have no argument in them trying to achieve that by peaceful, democratic and legal means), trouble started to brew with the Protestants who did not, and who being in the Majority had the balance of power, the British Army did not occupy anywhere, they were sent to part of the soveriegn state as recognised by the UN to protect a minority from a majority in order to keep peace. No one has ever suggested that a referendum under UN guidelines on self determination would have had any other result than staying 'British' (strictly part of the UK which is "Great Britain and Northen Ireland").
After a while resentment grew in the catholic community and the more violent troubles started, but as the majority of the populace of NI wanted to be British (UN rules on self determination, you were keen on international law when you thought it helped you) so in no way could it be called an army of occupation like it HAD been when it was trying to force the whole of Ireland to stay part of the Empire at the turn on the Century. The trouble is the emigrees at no point recognise that important distinction.
By the time Thatcher came to power the troubles were a full blown open conflict, she did try and open negotiations with both Eire and Sinn Fein (there was much debate whether she should or not in the UK at the time as both supported an armed struggle) so to blame everything on one PM who was in power for 12 years is rather selective.
There are also some anomolies, for example the Irish rugby team is drawn from both the republic and NI and hhas both catholic and Protestant players and always has had, while gaelic footbal has long been Catholic only and in some areas hostile to protestants who wanted to take part, meanwhile soccer is split between the Republic and NI, the NI team has both Catholic and Protestant players although for a while few Catholic, for info NI inhabitants can compete at the Olymipics for the GB or the republic.......funny how success in sport managed to bridge the problems for so long!
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"my Uncle served there in 1951 as part of a small garrison at a time when they could walk the streets normally"
I think I knew that. Did those Irish bastards kill his dog too?
"There are also some anomolies, for example the Irish rugby team is drawn from both the republic and NI and hhas both catholic and Protestant players and always has had, while gaelic footbal has long been Catholic only and in some areas hostile to protestants who wanted to take part, meanwhile soccer is split between the Republic and NI, the NI team has both Catholic and Protestant players although for a while few Catholic, for info NI inhabitants can compete at the Olymipics for the GB or the republic.......funny how success in sport managed to bridge the problems for so long!
Because no matter what these are GAMES, and the players are IRISH! Religion is not a nationality. The rest of the post bewilders me... The UN has NO dictate on national policy in ANY country. If they agree with me on making New Jersey a Hippie Farm then that makes it a hippie farm I guess. I'll have to see what connects I can make at the UN. They seem to agree with alot of dumb ass ideas. Maybe I can start a movement to occupy the UN building in N.Y. claiming it was Native soil, and they are an illegal occupant of foreign soil. I hope I sound as stupid as the rest of the argument for the U.K's "help".
I'm not calling you a dumb ass. You obviously can spell better than me. It's just a dumb ass fight you picked.
I used to date a girl "nanny" from the Mid-lands. This topic came up, and the attraction was ended right then, and there. I was 20 then. I'm 52 now. Think you're gonna change my mind?
Just to show I will never have hard feelings over this I got you an Ipad case. I figure a smart guy like you has to own an Ipad...
http://www.cafepress.com/+free_ireland_by_any_means_ipad_case,491933944 (http://www.cafepress.com/+free_ireland_by_any_means_ipad_case,491933944)
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Thought this was over now...?
Anyway it gives me a chance to post this about Irish Voting & civil rights etc. The link below gives a good account of what exactly went dkwn and who did what. Looking at it impartially i cant see how anyone can blame the Irish catholic minority from accepting the PIRA with open arms, they really had no choice other than to lay down and get trampled over. I know an old Irish guy who used to live 2 doors along from me who told me about the voting when he lived there, protestant land owners got 5/6 votes sometimes when catholics often got none! Wards where decided to aways guarentee a protestant majority vote won even in catholic areas! In truth they were worse than a Mafia, it was f***ed up.
You will also see that the Loyalist UVF came 1st and the PIRA was born after this.
This is a good impartial piece on the history......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/recent/troubles/the_troubles_article_01.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/recent/troubles/the_troubles_article_01.shtml)
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The UN does have guidelines on self determination.....and they prevent small areas going their own way.
My Uncle served there doing national service, at that time they could walk the streets in uniform and no-one took any issue.
I doubt your going to change your mind, but you could at least get your facts right.
A lot of people in the UK remember indescriminate bombing of civilians going about their daily lives, young kids out shopping being murdered.
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"A lot of people in the UK remember indescriminate bombing of civilians going about their daily lives, young kids out shopping being murdered."
Agreed. There is a lot of pain on both sides. That's why it should never have happened. England should declare a "sick day" and go home. As for my "facts"... I like them.
It's just like in the US when African Americans complain about the "whites". The professor "Gates" has set an offer in place. If anyone hates it here soo much they want to leave he has a standing offer. A one way ticket to Africa. See this is not sarcasm... Gates started studying black history to the point of DNA sampling people right down to the tribe they were "taken" from. He found Oprah's people. The guy is no joke. At all the lectures he gives, people begin the same old complaining... Whitey did this, and that. In fact it was predominantly other African tribes that kidnapped, and murdered selling off slaves to the white boys. Gates has shown this time, and time again. At his lectures there is a log book for anyone wanting to return to their "mother land". The book is empty. In 10 years of reporting on African studies not one complainer has taken the offer of a one way ticket "home"
I think it is the same in N.I. They want to be Brits but don't want to live in England! Go figure. I can't move to Spain, and call it New York, any more than those confused protestants can call N.I. England. If you want to be a Brit. Live there. If you claim Ireland... Live there. Can't be both.
Like Timmy... The albino lifeguard. It won't work.
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Oh Baloney, the Northern Irish are free to claim to be Northern Irish and part of Britain, just like any other region on these islands are.....Scotland wants some independance and will have a referendum for full independance which if it succeeds they will get, Wales doesn't want full independance, other areas have strong local cultures like Cornwall yet stay part of the UK.
Heck if you don't like living with African Americans your free to come back and live in Ireland as I assume that is where your family originate from, in fact if you look at your History most African Americans ancestry arrived before most the Irish ancestry did.......
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What do black people have to do with it? Are they involved too? Did they somehow make the Brits go into Ireland? If they did I'll add them to my Sh*t list along with the rest.
So when does the mighty UK have time to entertain an Irish "referendum" for douche bags to get out our their bed, and go home? If I thought it were that easy I would have saved my dollars, and bought hippie stuff instead. A simple "referendum". They should have asked for that awhile ago huh?
I'm thinking you meant Black Irish. They are really part Spanish. They're from a country nowhere near Niger. (white people can be sooo ignorant).
Oh sorry... I forgot what got me pissed... The ONLY reason so many Irish left is what?????
I know of another country that took food out of Ireland during a certain bleak period of time. It's been said another country is directly responsible for the starvation of tens of thousands of Irishmen... Something about "taxation without representation" rings a bell a few times thru history. My emotion comes from the "fool me once" train of thought. It wouldn't be the first time the great empire starved out a population.
I'm still pretty young... I can do this for years.
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You brought up African Americans, not me...
No-one has asked for a referendum in Northern Ireland, everyone knows what the answer would be, the republicans know as well, so aren't asking for one......get it, the majority of the population of Northern Ireland wish to be British....get over it!
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so there. :P
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Man most of my post didn't post... Most of the guys in the Bronx want to be Italian. It's not Italy. It's the Bronx. They are Americans. Just as I am. Whatever they want to call themselves there they are either IRISH or an RESIDENT alien in a foreign country. You don't move in to the guest house because you threw a surprise party. That's just bad manors. That's why I don't like Hoidy Toidy types. It's all fake. They have no manners. Dirty little people. Now I just don't care. Now my previous post applies... :-*