KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: dont_tread_on_me on July 15, 2012, 04:07:33 AM
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As some of you know from other thread,I was thinking of getting a clutch,and some of you recommended I change spings first.So since I got a spare clutch with the new/used pulley set I bought,I decided to try wordslinger's method using a small flat tip screwdriver.It worked great for taking them off but the shaft wasn't skinny enough to put them back so I used a spanner type screwdriver to push the spring hook over the hole it goes in....worked pretty slick too.So after a quick few shorts runs,I'm now launching in the powerband,somewhere between 8500 to 9000 rpm and staying there until it starts to top out then it keeps climbing until I hit top speed.So now the question is,how much would a new aftermarket clutch improve takeoff beyong this? I'm just debating whether it would be worth the coin on stock horsepower? Any ideas guys?
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If you are going to keep upgrading get one... If you are done... No need the OEM slips a bit but not at all on OEM hp
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..yeah, how happy are you bro??
..sounds like a good setup, but give it some miles before you decide for sure...
..sh** has to seat....
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Yea,I'm gonna run it while and see what's up.so far so good though.A litle better take off would be nice,but without doing any jetting or airbox stuff,I don't think I can ask for much more.
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Swap out the big Contra spring, and that will change everything for the better. 1500 series usually works best.
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Already done that,and yes it did most definately help keep my rpms where they need to be.Thanks for the suggestion though! ;D ;D
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I have to replace belt soon.... 10,000km on original form 11 years ago, lol. Would that 1500 contra help a stock Super 9 lc?
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Have you changed rollers yet? If not,you definitely need too after that many miles.Do that first before doing anything else.One thing I have certainly learned is to do one thing at a time,so you know exactly which change had which effect.Hell I'm still running the original belt and have close to 17,000 miles on mine....lol.
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A new contra helps every cvt bike out there. The main objective is to change the rpms that the pulleys open, and hold lower gearing longer for better take off, and much better out of corner throttle.
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how much would a new aftermarket clutch improve takeoff beyong this?
Springs make the difference in clutch operation. If you plan to really abuse the clutch (think wheelies), the aftermarket clutches are a bit stronger - but no quicker. If you abuse the stock clutch, it will crack near the pivot pins. For most owners, the stock clutch with higher RPM springs will work just fine.
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Springs make the difference in clutch operation. If you plan to really abuse the clutch (think wheelies), the aftermarket clutches are a bit stronger - but no quicker. If you abuse the stock clutch, it will crack near the pivot pins. For most owners, the stock clutch with higher RPM springs will work just fine.
I saved an OEM clutch that was just about to break at the pinns. They are all bent about 3-4* at the bases. Any hi HP bike NEEDS a retainer on the opposite side to prevent this.
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..nina's naraku driven pulley set cant take the torque...
..gets hot and doesnt twist as it should...
..z, need a pulley set...you ever find the good one??
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So far the closest one I can find is made for a HYoSuNG SF 50. It's a 110mm but the shaft size is exactly the same. I still have to measure to see what has to be cut from the cases. http://www.drowsports.com/product/181/Transmission/Other_Parts/Polini_Evolution_Torque_Driver_-_Yamaha_Zuma_Horizontal__long (http://www.drowsports.com/product/181/Transmission/Other_Parts/Polini_Evolution_Torque_Driver_-_Yamaha_Zuma_Horizontal__long))/specifications
I just can't find anyone that has it. It fits the Zuma as well.
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..link said sold out anyway...
..imma buy me an oem a50 pulley set...
..they unrestricted and built to last...
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Would an unrestricted pulley get you a few mphs up top on a stock unrestricted S9?
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..yes it will!!
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Can you recommend one for me? I wanted to run the stock belt too..... heard its the most durable. I plan on swapping out my rollers to something a bit lighter. I hear 6.5 or 7 are good in a stock scoot. Would the unrestricted pulley affect which rollers I choose? Sorry, complete noob with the cvt's.
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..i've had no luck with aftermarket pulleys as of yet..
..i'm going to order a agility 50 set, as i've gotten over 55,000 miles of good service out of mine..
..as far as roller weight, you'll just have to see what works best with your scoot...
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Has anyone used this and what are your opinions...
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/twist-control-naraku-racing-torque-spring-peugeot-piaggio-kymco-china-4stroke-p-4214-1.html?cPath=2_24_158&sessID=fd46176ca053d2c101adbbaaeab63cd8&shop_ID=1&sessID=fd46176ca053d2c101adbbaaeab63cd8 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/twist-control-naraku-racing-torque-spring-peugeot-piaggio-kymco-china-4stroke-p-4214-1.html?cPath=2_24_158&sessID=fd46176ca053d2c101adbbaaeab63cd8&shop_ID=1&sessID=fd46176ca053d2c101adbbaaeab63cd8)
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After having the clutch springs in for a few days it seems they have lost some strength.Now I'm back to a lag/buildup before it hits the butter rpm zone (8500) then launches.On the plus side my top end is through the roof (needle way past the 50 MPH mark and it's way into the MPH/KMPH marking all the way to the right) and midrange couldn't be better for a stock engine.Now this was a cheap set of spring from racing planet,I'm wondering if a better set may last longer or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop the coin on a clutch? I'm just wondering why I can't seem to debug this problem....it seemed so good a few days ago.I don't think the flys are that worn and the bell doesn't look to be either but is it possible/likely they have anything to do with it? I can't quite get over the top end though...the feel is significantly faster (did I mention it hauls ass!) ,glad I keep a descent set of tires on it.I've been playing with a new OEM belt,and it is a factor in the higher top end,but the lag still occurs with either belt.
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What have you done to your scoot tread? Just curious
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.get yu some stiffer clutch fly springs, and that may take care of the lag...
..might have to re-tune your roller weight after that..
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What have you done to your scoot tread? Just curious
Tecnigas next R pipe
Jasil variator
1500 rpm torque spring
2000 rpm clutch springs
new OEM belt
recently repacked the exaust
currently using 6.25 rollers which I dropped back to after initilally using the 6.75's right after the torque spring change
On another note some surfaces inside the variator don't look as smooth as the should be (in the roller channels) so I'm thinking of taking a dremal and some polishing paste and try to clean it up a bit....thoughts?
Also can you get clutch springs stronger than 2000 rpm?
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Thanks for the info. Is it necessary to change the variator.... or does the stock work well enough?
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Honestly I think it was worn out,but I have around 17,000 miles on mine,also I went a long time and never changed the rollers because I didn't know that I should.I started attemping to fix a dead spot I had at around 30-40 mph,before I did any mods and that progression lead me to here.As far as whether a new variator is necessary,well it probably depends on what your looking for,different people will give you different answers.
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..a new variator will require further tuning, but as a rule, it will increase performance of your scoot...
..usually better acceleration and, as with my multivar, a slightly higher top speed...
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Jasil or multivar? Is one better than the other? Sorry again, looking to buy a few things at once. Does an exhaust pipe do much for a stock scoot? If so, can I drill the baffle/remove packing to see similar gains? Thanks again(sorry to threadjack, lol)
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..multivar...for sure...
..for the money, the best vari you can upgrade to...
..yes i have a technigas next on nina...requires a increase in jet size, and variator tuning after install...
..but it IS worth it!!!
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..i would not recommend drilling the exhaust...
..performance increase would be minimal compared to an expansion chamber upgrade...
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I never changed the jet on mine after the Next-R pipe change,but it does not seem to be running lean either.There are two jets with the Super 9 when new if I'm not mistaken,and the dealer I bought it from had already changed the boss to the one without the shoulder and unplugged the rev limiter so I'm guessing that maybe they also installed the bigger jet,but it is pure speculation.You definately need to change rollers with the pipe change.The Next-r comes with 6.5 gram rollers which are basically junk,I'd chuck em' immediatly and grab a set of stage six or other descent roller to compliment the pipe.I wonder if a bigger jet and airbox would really wake mine up,but damn it's really good now....I also wish now I would have bought the Malossi variator...
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The Next-r comes with 6.5 gram rollers which are basically junk,
..i tried them..the inner weights pushed out the side of the roller, and created a tight fit in the roller ramps of my variator...after one short run...
..actually left marks on both sides of the ramps....
:-\
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I never changed the jet on mine after the Next-R pipe change,but it does not seem to be running lean either
..WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "DOES NOT SEEM TO BE"?
???
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The plugs come out looking a normal tan/gray color and I don't get any backfire.
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...cool..thats good..
..next best thing is a free-flow air intake filter...
..and jetting...
;D
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I'm afraid if I add an airbox I'll possibly have to rejet then....I just really hate to get into carb stuff.I don't know enough about it,and it seems like a huge pain in the ass.
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..it is a huge pain in the ass, especially with the oem carb...
..gotta physically mod the carb's needle and retaining clip to keep the mid-range fuel mix rich enough...
..in my experience.....
...but it was worth the trials..at least to me it was worth it......
...just the increase in throttle response...oem will never be there...
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Wordslinger, I'm in a dilemma. Keep stock setup, keep 65-70mpg's @45mph. In south Florida, I need to do 50-55(all main roads are 50 and I don't want to die). I wanted to do gears, but was told I shouldn't without the BBK(which I have). I just dont have time to mess with everything to tune it. If I threw the BBK on, jetted properly, then threw in gears and proper rollers, would you chance a guess at mpg? I won't run her WOT.... just need to do at least 50(gps verified), so I can hang with traffic.
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I would guess in the 40mpg range. Adding the kit will take alot of trial error jetting. If you are not comfortable with carbs stay away. If you have a buddy or a local shop you may be better off. There is alot of time/money in getting it sorted out, and blowing it up sucks. You should be at better speeds with that bike... Try heavier rollers to bring down your rpm's,
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..i'm getting @ 40 mpg on my stock engine with the malossi filter and tech pipe...
..mpgs are not my concern so much
;D
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Mpg's are my main concern. So for what I am looking for..... an unrestricted drive face and some heavier rollers? That would get me a few mphs and slow the rpms.....right?
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I'm also interested in that twist control unit you guys were talking about. Is it an easy install?
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And lastly, Wordslinger, where did you get your unrestricted pulley? Thanks again
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http://www.kymcoparts123.com/pages/OemParts#/Kymco_USA/KG10SA_AGILITY_50/E06_-_Driven_Pulley/04%7c%7e40%7c%7e0005/04%7c%7e40%7c%7e0013 (http://www.kymcoparts123.com/pages/OemParts#/Kymco_USA/KG10SA_AGILITY_50/E06_-_Driven_Pulley/04%7c%7e40%7c%7e0005/04%7c%7e40%7c%7e0013)
..this is where i just ordered my pulley bits from...delivery charge sux ass, and not scheduled to deliver until 8/6-8/9....
..but these guys have never failed me...
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Ok so what would that pulley do that the stock Super 9 does not...I"m guessing highrr topend due to different pulley angles? Would you need a different belt to work with it? How will this affect roller weight setup?
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..this pulley works well with the oem bando...
..i could only speculate on the rollers..
..the unrestricted pulley set gave my oem s9 5mph top speed....
..but that was back in th' day...
..many mods have happened since...
..they worth the money...
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What pieces do I need to order from that diagram? ???
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...well, definately 23210 and 23220...
..i ordered the whole clutch....just to be sure i got all new bearings, seals etc....
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..mind this!!...
..i've not tried these NEW pulleys in my s9, as of yet...
..just an educated guess, am i going on...
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..i do know that my old oem a50 pulleys performed well, with higher top speeds than the oem restricted s9 pulleys....
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..i gotta throw this out as well...
;)
..when you start taking these s9s up to 10,000 rpms, and make them run harder, you gotta perform routine maintenance on the cvt...
..especially the torque driver and driven pulley..
..they get hott, and re-greasing / cleaning is a ONCE A MONTH routine...
..in my experience...
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..i feel like i'm flooding this thread, but itsa true story....
..higher performance requires more frequent maintenance...
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Just to be clear... What do you need to do? ;) Just playin' brother man!
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Thanks guys. Wouldnt running these pulleys bring rpms down at higher speeds? The only time my scoot ever hit 10,000rpm was drafting a tractor trailer. And these pulleys definitely work with an S9? The description said Agility 50
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They Definitely work. And yes it will bring down your rpm's because the belt can now bottom out. It's maybe just 10-20 rpm but some.
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I really don't need the top end so I may not do the agility pulley.I've already been pulled over several times,and have been very lucky,but next time I may not be.However I'm still getting the lag at takeoff,so the question is does anyone make clutch springs rated higher than 2000 rpm or should I just invest in a clutch and be done with it? Maybe higher quality clutch springs? Oh and has anyone tried that Naraku twist control I linked in an ealier post? It looks like at the very least it would keep the torque spring from binding and make "shifting" easier...?
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Thats messed up.... on Kymcoparts123.com, they dont even have my scoot listed to order parts from :( Need a new belt..... I have a 2001 Super 9 LC..... solid blue.
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Hey Wordslinger, in your sister-sister thread, you posted a pic of the unrestricted pulleys..... were those the ones you got from kymcoparts123? Thanks.....
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The agility 50 pulleys are unrestricted, and work on any other kymco 50cc scooter..
..i'm not sure that if you order say, ppl pulley, or super9 pulleys that they will be unrestricted..that's why i ordered the a50 pulleys..
..I think in sis-sis, that was pics of the naraku pulleys...could have been the a50 pulleys, because i've run both in my s9...
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On kymcoparts123 it doesnt mention the manufacturer of the belt...... $44.37 tho :o This should be the bando one....right?
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It most likely is the bando... No way of knowing what they stock. Maybe give a call to verify what you will be getting.
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..its gotta bando-looking part #...
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Thanks again guys. I'm buyin up a bunch of stuff today. Will be doing 1500 contra, new tires, air filter, plug, nice shiny helmet, unrestricted pulleys(from agility 50...thanks for the info on that, new belt. What rollers should I go with, stock, heavier? You know by now I want top end......lol.
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Try the set you have now. If they rev too high go heavier. No point in buying any until you know what rpms you have.
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Thanks zombie, still trying to understand how what parts affect others in the cvt. So a stronger contra with stock rollers will rev higher.....check. It's starting to come together, lol
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Thanks again Zombie, what are your feelings on doing this http://www.racingplanetusa.com/twist-control-naraku-racing-torque-spring-peugeot-piaggio-kymco-china-4stroke-p-4214-1.html?sessID=8d90ac5e78109a38fbe362c6f610f02d (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/twist-control-naraku-racing-torque-spring-peugeot-piaggio-kymco-china-4stroke-p-4214-1.html?sessID=8d90ac5e78109a38fbe362c6f610f02d) with the 1500 spring on a stock displacement scoot?
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What i found, but it was the HOCA , not the naraku, was that it will not work with everything "as is"...
..it caused the top torque springs guide sleeve to hit the bearing base when the pulleys were almost fully opened...
..lost 10mph top speed, and caused excessive high revs due to belt slippage, approaching top end...
..i will have to shorten the top spring guide sleeve by 1/4" or so to be able to use it..
..felt awesome up to that point though!!
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HOCA?
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So Word, you would recommend just the spring and leave that twit control alone?
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..hoca is just another brand...
..bearing is identical..
..i am going to modify mines, because i really liked the difference it made in torque delivery...
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Always appreciate the advice..... maybe this would have similar effect without interfering? http://www.racingplanetusa.com/torsion-control-malossi-plastic-torque-spring-seat-p-2792-1.html?cPath=2_24_158&sessID=95e5bbb6a7ac7fbf764f3787245bf438 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/torsion-control-malossi-plastic-torque-spring-seat-p-2792-1.html?cPath=2_24_158&sessID=95e5bbb6a7ac7fbf764f3787245bf438)
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..i think zombie has praised that one, and per z, it goes on the top of the spring, so it might work without any mods..
..be the guinnea pig rage!!
;D
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Will do..... Going to order from racing planet.com. Do me a favor, I ordered all my oem stuff from a site called 2wheelpros.com. Cheaper than kymcoparts123 and yamaha site. Cheap shipping too. I saved quite a bit on the pulleys, not to mention got my plugs and belt there cheaper too. Hope this info helps.....will let you know when I get the stuff if it works out. They said it would all ship in 6-8 business days.
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...awesome...i gotta order me some more bits...brake pads, think imma need a starter motor before too long and i do need a new pulley set for kymmi, my a50...
..used hers all up!...lol....
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...dont anybody want to talk about driven pulleys??
???
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You can tell me how to replace mine once I get them....lol
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...cool...it's easy breezy....
8)