KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => People 50 => Topic started by: vdubn on June 26, 2012, 02:39:12 PM
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So, I started out my People 50 restore, with my 2001 that I just picked up a couple months ago. It needed some body panels, and had about 13000 kMs on the odometer, and was smoking like crazy with no power up top. After finding out that it had a tad over 120psi of compression (just barely minimum), and that the automatic choke was stuck on (hence the smoke and no power at top end), I decided to go ahead and install a 70cc Malossi BBK, a Malossi performance carburetor, etc. As part of this, I decided to just pre-mix my fuel, so part of this thread will be to document the removal/disabling of the oil injection system.
To start us off, here are some pictures of the work I have been doing... I haven't seen this documented on here, at least with pics, so I thought it might help someone. The BBK was about $200, and the carb kit was $170. I got both through scooterworks.com, they seem to have good availability and prices are amongst the lowest. Finally, they were willing to answer questions.
After pulling the cylinder and piston, soaking the needle bearing and all new parts, I prepped the new cylinder with some new exhaust studs that I got to avoid having to pull and use the old ones:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_exh_studs.jpg)
Then I set out to disable the oil injection pump. First I disconnected the oil line to the tank and drained the oil:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_tank.jpg)
I may just remove the whole tank and connect the terminals of the oil light (thanks for the advice Peters), not sure yet.
Once the oil was removed, then I pulled the oil pump out of the block. I then noticed that the gear assembly just came right out of the pump body, and on the end it looks like it threads into the pump. I think that the threads are the actual pump that pushes oil into the motor. You guys all probably new this, but, it was new info to me. I pulled the clip and the seal out as well... here are the pics of it disassembled, and with the caps on the ports:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_pump1.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_pump2.jpg)
Then I reinstalled the pump, and plugged off the intake manifold as well and made sure that the O-ring was in good shape and sealed nicely when installed:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_pump_installed.jpg)
Finally, I cleaned up the cylinder mounting surface of the block, with my brillo pad attachment... it came out nice.
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_block_cleanup.jpg)
The carb kit should be in today, and if I get some time to look it over, I'll document the installation of it as well.
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Awesome!
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Ok, so I got the BBK installed along with the new Malossi 19mm carb. I documented the process with pics, but will need to post those later.
For now, I wanted to ask a couple questions about tuning the setup. I bought the 90 to 108 sized Dellorto jets, and the carb came with an 80. I figured I would start at 100, and see how things go. It started right up and ran terrible just like before the BBK install. So, I figured way too rich (the stock carb had a failed autochoke). So, I drilled three more holes in the air box lid, and dropped the main jet to the lowest I had, size 90.
It ran a lot better, but still bogs on the top end. It comes up to speed better, but I can tell its just not revving like it should. I think the 80 jet that came with the carb is probably too lean, but curious what others with the same setup might be running. I'll try the 80, but figure I'll probably need to grab the 80 to 90 jet kit as well, since I'll probably end up around 86 or so.
Any thoughts?
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No no no. Do not put the 80 in. You should be somewhere in between 90 and 100. Start high and work your way down. Work your way down from 100 til you get the results you want. You have two different circuits and the slide needle. The main jet mostly controls 3/4 throttle to WOT mix(high speed jet). The slide needle is adjustable also(can be raised up or down to control mid range mix). It mostly controls 1/4 to 3/4 throttle mix. The idle circuit(low speed or idle jet) mostly controls closed to 1/4 throttle.
It has been said it's best to start with the idle and work your way up from there. Do this because the idle circuit is still active at WOT. It's completely independent at closed throttle though(needle or main jet do not affect the mix at completely closed throttle). Changing the idle jet can throw the main jet off.
Actually, the best thing to do would be to get the idle right then the main and then change the needle setting if you're unhappy with the mid-range. If you get the main jet perfect and then change the needle setting, likely you'll have to change the main again. Works the same other way around. Say you're good on the mid range and too rich on the main. You would decrease the size of the main. In turn, this would make the mid range lean. It's a very delicate balance.
Read up on plug chops. It's the best way to tune a carb. A simple google search on "plug chop" or "how to do a plug chop" will yield better resources than searching this forum. It's basically all the same whether it's a scooter, airplane, or jet boat. Biggest thing is to make sure you continue to hold the throttle in the same position until the engine completely stops.
Hope this helps :)
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With an airbox 86ish sounds reasonable. Open filter may need upwards of 150ish
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Hold on, 150 MJ?
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I had a drilled out 147 in the ruima 50mm jug using a delorto 19mm from a scrap bike. It went down to a 100 with a 28mm delorto. ran best with an oko 24mm, and 127 main
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Gotcha
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Ok, so I ran the thing around the block today, and it feels ok, just really sluggish once you hit midrange, and almost no top end. I did a plug check, and its like chocolate in color, but its smoking quite a bit. I know I put a bit more oil in the mix than normal, so that might be contributing to the smoke, but this has me baffled as the color looks good on the plug. I expected it to be black or wet.
Its acting almost exactly the same as it did before I swapped out the stock cylinder for the 70cc, and the bigger carb (stock carb had a stuck choke, or so I thought). If I put it on the center stand, and rev it, I almost immediately get studdering like something is cutting off spark, hitting rev limiter, etc... I can't get it to rev out.
Since I have a 90 main jet, and the plug is looking dry and chocolate, I think the jetting is actually close.
I am now wondering if the issue might not be spark related, like the coil, or the CDI. I pulled the air cleaner off, with the 100 mainjet, to see if that would help it run better, but still ran into the studdering problem when trying to rev it. No matter what jet I run, it still studders and will not rev out.
I checked spark and its not bright blue, but a bit yellow-ish blue. The bike starts immediately though, so not sure. I had a coil issue on another bike, and it showed itself by taking forever to start. New coil, and it fired immediately.
Some have said that if there are any issues with the CDI, that the bike won't even start, so I am stumped. I don't think its stator or pickup related, as the battery charges well, and the lights are nice and bright.
Any other ideas, is there a pickup on the flywheel for spark timing, or is that just part of the stator?
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Sounds like it's a fuel issue. Likely rich. Just checking the plug isn't enough. You have to do plug chops. Make sure you get the idle mix right. Start with 1 and 1/2 turns out, then turn 1/4 turn at a time, either direction, until you get the highest possible idle. Then adjust the speed screw to the desired idle speed.
Did you check the reeds?
I'd lower the slide needle one notch and see what happens to the mid range
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Ok.... I havent checked the reeds yet, and I had heard that they can break sometimes. Its easy to check, so I will do that tomorrow.
I'll google plug chops and get a better idea what to do there.
As for lowering the needle, you mean move the clip up one groove, thus lowering it further into the carb?
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As for lowering the needle, you mean move the clip up one groove, thus lowering it further into the carb?
Exactly :)
Check the reeds first. It's very easy to do.
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To me, it seems as though something mechanical is hindering it from running right... checking them now... too impatient to wait.
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Never know. Double check everything. Try to be consistent with the oil ratio. It changes the air/fuel mix. Pre-mix requires a slightly bigger jet than if you were still on the injection system.
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Here are some pics of the reeds... I noticed that on one side the reeds are off of the reed cage just sitting static. The bike has 13000 kMs on it, so I'm wondering if the reeds are week. Thinking of flipping them over until I get another set. I know there are people on here that cut there own, but anyone know where to buy a new set?
Also, thoughts on the weekness of the reeds causing issues?
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_reeds1.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_reeds2.jpg)
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Hmmm. Not sure if that is bad or not. I think you mostly don't want any cracks or breaks. The compression in the cylinder should close that up no problem. Not positive though. I don't think that turning it around would do any harm but I don't know for sure. Don't know where to buy reeds either. Basically I have nothing :D. Lets see what zombie has to say :).
Keep at it, I know it can be frustrating. Those stupid reeds that came with the kit threw me for a loop. It would idle. I spent days playing with the carb. Then I had an epiphany lying in bed at about 2 am one night "It's those damn reeds".
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:)
Appreciate the input either way. I'll swap them around tomorrow, and see what happens. I may also swap the coil as well, just to see if that has any effect, plus its cheap. I'll get to the bottom of it soon... I really think there is something limiting the rpm the way that its stuttering so hard at barely 3000 rpm or so. The smaller the mainjet I ran seemed to help a bit, but it is soooo sluggish.
I thought for sure that the 70cc kit and carb would just wake it up significantly.
Finally, which CDI does the People 50 take, DC or AC?
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I thought for sure that the 70cc kit and carb would just wake it up significantly.
It will! Especially with some cvt tuning. I still don't have my cvt tuned where I want it yet. It does good, I just know it can do better.
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Crazy thing is that I have a 2005 People as well, and it runs circles around this People. Its totally stock, with a de-restricted CDI. Hoping I can get an opinion from Zombie on the studdering problem.
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Ok, after a bunch more reading, I think I am going to look into the CDI and/or stator and pickup assembly. The way that it studders as if every other cycle is being skipped, and it won't rev out, I am thinking something is up with the CDI, or that the timing is off.
In looking over the service manual, it says to check the ignition timing, but gives no way to do it.
I read where zombie had some timing/CDI issues that were similar. Hopefully he will chime in.
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Pm'd some of the info... Who knows if they are ac or dc cdi's?
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Ok, I think that its a DC CDI that I need, here is the one I think I am getting, if anyone has any opinions on a better or cheaper option, I'd love to hear it:
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/unit-naraku-unrestricted-kymco-dccdi-p-338-1.html?cPath=2_18_116&sessID=89b5d1927f1db513aeb84d1fb91afa03 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/unit-naraku-unrestricted-kymco-dccdi-p-338-1.html?cPath=2_18_116&sessID=89b5d1927f1db513aeb84d1fb91afa03)
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I do believe that is the correct cdi.
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Ok, I really need some help, this thing is testing every bit of my patience. I have a local Kymco dealer here, so I went and bought a factory, unrestricted, CDI from them, and installed it today. The good news, is that it definitely revs higher than it did, but the issue that remains is that it is sooooo sluggish. It responds better, and I actually got it up to 30 mph today, but it took forever, and just feels totally restricted. I started the jetting at a 90 main jet, and swapped to a 92, it got better, then jumped back to 100, and at wide open throttle it really started bucking and stuttering. Went back to a 94, and that is where it has run the best.
The plug is a rusty gray color, so seems fine. I was feeling ok, like I was making some progress, then I hopped on my wifes 2005 stock 49cc bike with an unrestricted CDI... holly crap!!! It runs circles around my 2001 with a BBK and larger carb. Something is holding the bike back, and I have no idea what it could be. If I put both bikes on the center stand, the 2005 revs straight to red line and sounds great. If I rev the 2001 it revs to about 3000 and then just stutters to maybe 4000 rpm and then tops out.
I pulled both transmission covers off both bikes, and all of the drivetrain parts are stock on both, other than the derestricted sleeves.... so both are identical. Belts look good, rollers are new on the 2001 and are 7gram.
The only thing that I can see that looks different, is that the exhaust tip on the 2005 is totally dry, whereas the the tip on the 2001 is always wet, it has always about a drip of oil/fuel at the tip and drips towards the front about half way up the silencer. Its a small amount, but I am always wiping the bottom off of the silencer.
I heard that the early People 50 exhaust were unrestricted or at least less restrictive than the later bikes, but I am wondering if the liquid coming out might be a crapload that has been accumulating over time from however long its been running poorly. Just wonder if now its coming out... so is it possible that the exhaust is totally restricted/plugged, and not allowing the engine to spin up?
Or... is it possible that the reeds are too week, and allowing fuel and mix into the exhaust?
I have spent so much time and money on this bike, and I am totally stumped as to where to go.
I thought about a coil, but it starts immediately, I don't mind buying a replacement one but I'm not sure its likely to fix it. I thought about a stator, but the techs at the Kymco shop said that the only times they have seen stator issues were related to battery charging or lighting issues, but never spark issues (unless something contacted the pickup).
Other than those things, or the possibility of the exhaust being plugged, I am out of suggestions.
HELP PLEASE!!!!
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Exhaust most definitely could be clogged up. I was thinkin... you could try using the exhaust from the other ppl. I'm not sure if those compression gaskets can be reused though. Somebody on here may have some spares as they come with the kit but Tecnigas uses a paper type gasket. I think I have one, but you may need more than that.
Hey zombie! Can you reuse those compression type exhaust gaskets?
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Yep, you read my mind... I was thinking the same thing after I posted that last. I have reused the metal gaskets without issue, so that is what I will try tomorrow. I can think of no other reason that the exhaust would be so full of liquid...
Do any of you guys know what the symptoms of bad/worn out reeds are?
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I have reused the metal gaskets without issue
Yeah I thought you could
That should isolate the problem
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Yea, I think you are right... I looked up some symptoms of the reed valves going south, and it looks like compression would be affected mostly, so it looks like they are fine.
I really don't know how long this bike sat before I got it, so I am really crossing my fingers that the issue is exhaust related. It still puzzles me that there is so much soot coming out of the pipe. If the exhaust is really holding things up, then I think I will probably need to go back up a size or so in main jet as well.
I'll post back tomorrow night.
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Awe yea!!!!!!!! Jeeemoneeee crisssmassss it worked!!!!!!
I swapped out the exhaust this morning and oh my goodness, what a powerhouse! I honestly would never have guessed that the muffler would have been the issue, but it was totally the problem.
Ok, so now I need an exhaust really quickly. Any suggestions? I think that I saw the technigas R exhaust for $158, but also the NCY exhaust is like $260, and looks super sweet, but looks like it could be super loud too.
Thoughts?
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Awesome! ;D
Really glad you found the problem. I could feel the frustration. And believe me I know the feeling :D
Tecnigas next R is a good pipe but the RS2 is a better match for the bbk. It will allow higher rpms and a wider power band. Leo Vince pipes are ok from what I hear. NYC... not really sure about them. I don't think NYC is a very good brand though.
I have the next R and it's been good. Not real real loud. To be honest if I could do it all over again I would go for the RS2. I say if you can find the RS2 for a little bit more money, go for it.
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Racing planet has a nice selection.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/index.php?shop_ID=1&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62&olevel0=2&olevel1=18&olevel2=&level0=2&level1=18&level2=110 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/index.php?shop_ID=1&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62&olevel0=2&olevel1=18&olevel2=&level0=2&level1=18&level2=110)
I think zombie said you can mention the forum for a discount. I think... :D. I forget which ones he said to mention the forum. 90% sure ;)
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This the one?
http://www.scooterworks.com/NCY-Kymco-People-50-2T-Exhaust-P9895C496.aspx (http://www.scooterworks.com/NCY-Kymco-People-50-2T-Exhaust-P9895C496.aspx)
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Yep, that was the NYC setup that I was referring to... It looks nice, but I have no idea of how loud it is, fitment, or build quality.
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Ok, so I went with the Technigas Next R:
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-tecnigas-nextr-kymco-horizontal-p-108-1.html?cPath=2_18_110&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-tecnigas-nextr-kymco-horizontal-p-108-1.html?cPath=2_18_110&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62)
I opted for this because the price was right, $158, and it was in stock in the US, so I can actually have it by next week. I was going to spend more for the chrome versions and even for the RS2, but all were in Europe, and I am too impatient for now, I want to get to riding this thing before I run out of nice weather. The exhaust from my wife's 2005 sounded like the core was rattling around when I was carrying the system over to my 2001, so I am guessing that I will be buying another exhaust for her in the coming months... I'll try the Next R on my BBK scooter for now, then move it to hers, and see how the RS2 does on mine later on.
So, I am guessing that my main jet is going to be much higher.... in the order of 100 or so. I am guessing that it was stuttering so bad due to the fact that the muffler was so plugged. I guess I could have left the whole bike stock, and it probably would have run fine with the 125psi of compression, had I known that the exhaust was prone to plugging. Oh well, can always use more power :D
I called the local Kymco shop, and when I told him what I found, he was like, "Oh, you had the dreaded carboned up muffler, eh?", like it was a known thing amongst 2 stroke Kymco owners... how was it that this never came up in the 5 conversations I had with them. I've owned Banshee's, YZ250's and a bunch of other 2 stroke bikes, and have never had a pipe carbon up. I understand with the oil in the exhaust, how it could happen, but have never had it happen, or heard of friends that have had it happen. I mean even on old Banshee's from 1989 with stock pipes still.
Oh well, its these experiences that make us better techs... I still love the small wins like this, especially when they feel huge.
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I'll try the Next R on my BBK scooter for now, then move it to hers, and see how the RS2 does on mine later on.
Good idea
Yeah I've heard of pipes getting clogged. It's just hard to diagnose something over the internet, ya know. To be honest with the amount of miles you have on it I wouldn't have wanted to believe it either. Must have been running rich for a while. Just glad that you thought of it. :)
Oh well, its these experiences that make us better techs... I still love the small wins like this, especially when they feel huge.
Yep! And you'll love your new found acceleration and top end. You'll be passing cars instead of them passing you :D
... So you've had some Banshees huh? I love those things ;D. I have two Blasters myself but they're just not the same. I had an old neighbor from California that had a Banshee that was built for race. All I had ever rode was a 300ex. Man!!! Let me tell you, that thing was scary fast. She kept tellin me "ride the tank, ride the tank". I forgot and hit 2nd gear. Wooo! :o that damn front end came up so quick :D :D :D. Anyway, that's my dream quad. I'd love to have one.
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BTW since the pipe will have no coating, you can buy some high temp exhaust paint. Then it won't rust.
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Good to know. I've painted headers. Ack in my hot rod days, so I'll get some header paint and paint it hit temp black. Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know that they came raw. Now I'll grab some paint before it arrives.
Love the banshees, they make short arms longer :)
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Love the banshees, they make short arms longer Smiley
;D
I think the one you got has no coating at all. I could be wrong :-\. It might have a clear coat. The one I got is chromed. I'm to lazy to clean it though :D
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You will melt pistons before you burn this coating... Good stuff. http://www.amazon.com/VHT-SP115-FlameProof-Coating-Satin/dp/B000CPJLGW/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_b/182-2107029-4548908 (http://www.amazon.com/VHT-SP115-FlameProof-Coating-Satin/dp/B000CPJLGW/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_b/182-2107029-4548908)
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If you want to keep your old exhaust as a spare, or to sell, i would suggest trying to de-carbon it. When I owned my Honda Spree, there were no aftemarket exhausts, so they suggested two different methods to decarbon.
Method#1 - Build an outdoor bonfire. Once you have plenty of hot coals, throw your exhaust in the fire and let the carbon burn from the inside out. Once the fire has burned out, pull out your exhaust, wire brush, and paint with rustoleum high heat (grills etc.) black paint.
Method #2- Lye. Go to your local hardware store and get some lye (for drain cleaning etc). Mix up in a 5 gallon bucket with water. Put your exhaust in the lye mixture and let it set for a few hours, draining and filling the inside a handful of times. Then take a fresh water hose and put it up to the exhaust inlet, to "flush" the lye mixture and carbbon out.
Method #2 was the least drastic to me, so I tried it. I got 2 more years out of my exhaust, and sold the Spree with it that way. It is still running 2 years after the sale. They guys on the Honda Spree forum think that the bonfire works best.
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This is the only way I have ever had perfect results. Watch the ring of berning carbon as it travels out of the pipe.
The idea is to heat until cherry red, and run pure O2 thru the pipe. The O2 keeps the carbon/oil burning till their is none left.
Smokin The Pipe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_J7sADPyMM#ws)
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That looks like a Yamaha Blaster pipe ;D
...
I was just thinkin the other day, I should cut open my stock exhaust and see exactly what makes the newer pipes so restrictive. I'm not doing anything with it anyway. I doubt anybody wants to buy those newer exhausts. There's hardly any carbon build up in it. Only had it on for a few months.
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..oem hassa catalytic converter and a baffle...
..been in there...
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..oem hassa catalytic converter and a baffle...
..been in there...
I think mine is different though. Remember, one of my first post in the forum. Mine has the tube coming off the bottom that goes nowhere. Let me see if I can dig up the pics.
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Dug this one up
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=2150.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=2150.0)
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..in the ppl service manual, there should be a figure depicting exhaust flow thru the muffler...
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Can anyone say for sure if the Technigas TechR below, needs to be painted? I don't mind doing it, but wanted to see if it is in fact raw or if it comes coated at all? Mine is showing up tomorrow, and I would love to get it installed right away... hoping to just install it, but will paint it if it is raw.
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Ive been using 1,500* VHT clear. Scotch brite the entire pipe, and spray. Since it's clear it is easy to spray on "touch ups" as needed w/out removing the pipe.
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Yep, I have used that stuff as well, and it works well.
Do you have a good starting point on the main jet with a stock air cleaner, the 19mm Malossi carb, and the 72cc BBK? The stock jet was 80, I bought the jet kity that ranges from 90 to 110, and I went all over the place while trying to figure out the exhaust issue, so I think I have it at 94, but am thinking it will probably need to start around 100.
Peters, I know you are running the Technigas as well, so you and I have almost identical setups now. Maybe you remember what main jet you are running.
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I run anywhere between a 95 and a 105. Right now I have a 98, but with the heat and humidity it runs a little too rich. The needle height is also adjustable and can affect the main jet. Don't remember which setting mine is on though. One of the middle settings. I think there are like 5 or 6. There are so many variables including the way the CVT is set up. You also have an older model. I am continuing to learn about more and more restrictions on these newer models >:(. Start high and work your way down one step at a time. 105 is probably a good starting place :-\
Just curious, in what area do you live? Altitude and climate also affect jetting.
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Start high, and work down. 120 is plenty rich so... Peters is correct on the Variables. There is no real answer. I'm about 105 with an Open pipe, and OEM air box
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Start high, and work down. 120 is plenty rich so... Peters is correct on the Variables. There is no real answer. I'm about 105 with an Open pipe, and OEM air box
My bad that's my 4t...
Start around 140 for a pipe, and open filter on a 2t. Up the pilot as well unless you use the OEM air box
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This poor guy/girl (a girl got mad at me cause I called her brotha :D) has to keep buying more parts. I feel bad :-[.
His biggest jet is a 110 and he still has the stock box. Do you think it would be ok for him to try the 110 zombie :)?
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I'm a guy, so no worries.... I think I will start at 105, and see how that does, if the plug is too light, then I'll jump straight to the 110 and see how it does. Hopefully with a stock airbox, that will get me enough fuel.
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Start with the highest you got(110). Won't hurt. I know I told you 105 :-[. Zombie knows his sh** though. You always want to start high and go down. Good luck :). Keep us posted
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Sounds good, I'll start at 110... I'll report back tomorrow. I have all the pics to post of the BBK and carb install as well.
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Ok, so to start off, here are the pics of the BBK and carb install:
Starting with what the carb kit looks like fresh out of the package:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit1.jpg)
BBK Parts soaking in 2 Stroke oil:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit2.jpg)
Jet Kit
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit3.jpg)
Chassis without the oil tank:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit4.jpg)
Dual Cable kit removal/disassembly in preparation for the new cables to the choke and carb:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit5.jpg)
Out with the old carb:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit6.jpg)
Removal of the old throttle cable (disassemble the end at the twist throttle to give you room to remove the two cables from the center section:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit7.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit8.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit9.jpg)
New carb installed:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit10.jpg)
Stock airbox (soon to be drilled), and you can see where I mounted the choke lever:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/kymco_carb_kit11.jpg)
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Ok, so here is the exhaust install... I have to say that the hardware and instructions (or lack thereof) were pretty lame. I know its an easy install, and have done similar, so no big deal, but man, I ended up using half of my own hardware to mount it, and the nuts holding the silencer to the header are super tender, I worried I might strip them or pull the studs at any moment while tightening them.
To get the exhaust gasket to stay in the head, I put a couple small dabs of this grease on the gasket and pressed it into the head:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/exhaust_install1.jpg)
Picture of the hardware that came with the pipe, you can see one of the allen bolts was super long:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/exhaust_install2.jpg)
Good news, the clear coat on the pipe was nice, so I didn't have to paint it at all.
And on to the jetting... I installed the 110 main jet, and took it out for a ride. It felt good, a little bobble in the middle (probably needle setting), but that is just if I ease through to high speed. If I goose it from an idle, it accelerates great. When I got back, I checked the plug, and here is what it looks like:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/plug_post_exh1.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/plug_post_exh2.jpg)
Looks greyish brown, so maybe a tad lean, but I think it looks ok... any thoughts?
Finally, a couple pics of the Scooter, it was silver, and I had the front cowl painted black, along with the headlight surround piece. Turned out pretty good I think.
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people50-2.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people50-1.jpg)
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Real nice scoot. Great post too.
When you check the spark plug you should be looking Inside the ceramic cone to the base. That color is what tells you the mix ratio in the jug. The electrode can only tell you about oil ratio or running temps.
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Nice :)
Again great documentation. Changing that throttle cable is a bi### huh?
Like zombie said, you want to check the color of the white insulator. To check the main, warm it up with the old plug and put a new one in. As soon as you start it go full throttle for a minute or two(need a nice straight road) and kill the ignition while still holding the throttle wide open. Continue to hold it wide open until the engine completely stops. Pull the plug out and install the old one. Ride back home and look at the insulator of the test plug. You should see a ring burnt into the insulator. You can cut off the threads to get a real good look at it. This is why it's referred to as a plug chop. Take some pics. You can also check the mid range and idle with this method.
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http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/carb/plugchop.htm (http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/carb/plugchop.htm)
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Nice :)
Again great documentation. Changing that throttle cable is a bi### huh?
Yea, the cable was a total pain, but even worse was threading the cable at the carb, through the carb slide, man I almost threw it across the garage trying to compress the spring, thread the cable, etc.
Ok, I have a spare plug, so I will give that a shot and see how it looks. I'll post back when I know some more info. Hopefully its ok for now, as I am hoping to ride it to work tomorrow, which is only about 5 miles away.
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Ok, Peters, I follows the instructions on that link you sent me, the only difference in my test, was that I ran it at full throttle for about 30 to 40 seconds, which may have been too short of a run. Either way, I pulled the plug, ran home on the old plug, and chopped it, and here is what I found (its hard to get a good pic of the ring, but hopefully you can see it):
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/chopped_plug1.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/chopped_plug2.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/chopped_plug3.jpg)
So, it looks a little light, and almost 2mm thick. I think the ring is smaller because of how short the full throttle run was. Also, I think that the jetting is actually ok though, because I did a couple runs and it really runs strong from idle to full speed. I got it up to just under 50mph tonight. So, my stock airbox has 4 holes drilled in the lid. One on the bottom, and 3 along the outer part of the lid. All holes are about 7/16" in diameter. So, since looking at the ring, I figured it might be a tad lean, I went ahead and put black tape over the three holes in the lid, leaving just the one in the bottom (besides the factory opening). I figured this would richen the mixture a bit, and I could see how it ran. I made the same trip down the road, and it burbled a bit on acceleration from idle, and at speed, when I rolled into it, it would have to clear out a bit then would do ok. I removed the tape from one hole, so now two were covered, and two open. Still burbled a bit, but a bit better. Took the tape off, and bam, back to great acceleration from idle to full speed. It definitely feels the best with 4 holes open in the stock airbox.
I don't get any stumble at full speed, indicating a lean condition. The pipe looks good, not overheated close to the cylinder, so I am hoping that I got lucky, and it is jetted ok on the main jet.
The only area I noticed it a bit rough, is when you are just cruising, not really giving any throttle, or decelerating... the motor kind of does this fast bup bup bup bup sound. Not smooth, but also it just kind of sounds like a 2 stroke. It might be totally normal, just thought I would see what you guys thought about it.
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Looks pretty good man. Maybe a little lean. HEY ZOMBIE! Where ya at?
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It's hard to say on such a short run but all the extra work/trouble shooting you did makes it sound correct.You are always better off on the rich side for sure. I'd run it about 2 miles, and try a second chop to verify what you found. You are going to have a super nice bike when you are done. Good work!
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I rode it 5 miles to work this morning, and it came right up to almost 50 mph with room to spare... I was pretty impressed. I'm not seeing much smoke from the pipe, but the power is super smooth all the way from idle to full speed. Hopefully the test with the tape over the airbox was a good enough test. As soon as I put any tape over the holes, man, it would studder through acceleration just a bit, so hopefully I'm ok.
Should I be concerned that I don't see a bunch of smoke coming out of the pipe?
Also, what mix should I be running per gallon again... how many ounces of oil? I think I am running a little extra oil in this tank of fuel.
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The OEM pump does 50:1 at wot, and closer to 100:1 near idle. If you add 2oz per gallon that will get you near 32:1 at wot, and 50:1 at idle. No smoke is better than loads of smoke, just spin the engine over with the spark plug removed, and check to see if the pump is working by pulling the hose.
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Cool man 8)
Yeah mine does the same thing if I try to cover the holes in the box...
You shouldn't see any smoke coming from the new pipe. That's a good thing. No carbon build up ;). Mine is just starting to smoke a little on cold starts. My pipe is about 2 years old now.
He has the pump shaft pulled out and is running premix
I run about 3.3 Oz. per gallon or 16.5 Oz. for 5 gallons. That's a ratio of about 40:1 ... actually a little closer to 38:1
If you're adding more than that, backing it down to 40:1 will richen the air/fuel mix a little.
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He has the pump shaft pulled out and is running premix Got ya!
4oz is what I use per gallon. 32:1. That is the richest you can run. Any more requires up jetting... again.
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That may be my lean condition then, as I think I have about 4 oz per my tank right now... so, am I safe to run 40:1? I think if I do that, its less oil, but should be a richer mixture, just want to make sure its safe to ride at that ratio.
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It's safe. Just depends on what you want to do. Zombie is running a high performance set up. I tend to lean towards a more everyday reliable set up.
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Great point. I wasn't thinking apples to oranges... Really 50:1 is optimal for an engine spinning 9k rpm. Its not as much about the piston/cyl as it is about the bearings. Both upper, and lower. The bigger the piston, the more drag you create. The more drag the more torque you create on the bearings. More torque one the bearings means more heat. To remove that heat you need more oil. 40:1 is fine for a first "break in" tank. 50:1 is fine for all round riding. I ran the injector on a Malossi sport for years with no issues, and that oil is constantly changing. I also broke in, and ran an 87cc kit for several months on 90:1. The kit did fail but it was from a cracked pipe/lean burnout.