KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: acrab78 on June 25, 2012, 02:03:09 AM
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So after a full derestriction, carb jet , cdi cut, and smooth boss i decided to modify.
I changed the rollers in the stock variator to 5g rollers and changed all four springs in the stock clutch to 1500 yellows.
Now after getting her back together it is running ok, but a big difference in speed after 20 mph...
Maxed out at about 36-38 where after just the derestrict was about 45. Flat land.
Also it is almost worse uphill slowing to 20 on some. I used the lighter rolers and heavier springs to help with this.
I am wondering if the rollers are too light? Also i had a hard time with the clutch reassembly (previous posts) and tried the
Oil wrench technique with a vice only to scrape up the clutch shoes some.... So think that could be an issue too maybe.
When i am driving at 30 or more and let off the gas it slows down rapidly now..... doesnt seem normal.
Please advise.... About to possibly trash the stock clutch and variator get new/better ones and try again....
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So after a full derestriction, carb jet , cdi cut, and smooth boss i decided to modify.
I changed the rollers in the stock variator to 5g rollers and changed all four springs in the stock clutch to 1500 yellows.
Now after getting her back together it is running ok, but a big difference in speed after 20 mph...
Maxed out at about 36-38 where after just the derestrict was about 45. Flat land.
That sounds about right for your current setup.
Also it is almost worse uphill slowing to 20 on some.
What was your uphill max before derestrict, and after derestrict but before the new weights & springs?
I used the lighter rolers and heavier springs to help with this.
I am wondering if the rollers are too light?
Try the 5.5g that is favoured by most people here.
When i am driving at 30 or more and let off the gas it slows down rapidly now..... doesnt seem normal.
That is normal for the weights & springs you have. It allows you to "downshift" going into a corner then power out of it.
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Seems a little slow ???
I use all 1500 springs in the rear, 5.1g rollers and my normal flat speed is 45-47mph on the speedo, 30-40 mph uphill.
Sometimes it takes a mile or 2 to all settle in but if you already did a couple miles and its still not right you prob need retune it. Its all trial and error till you find the set up that suits you and your scoot, no 2 scoots are exactly the same.
What type of torque spring is it? Brand name or cheapo? Did you buy the set of 3x different torque springs or just the one?
I had to experiment for ages with rollers and springs till i was happy. Im guessing its a newer A50 you have? Mine is 2008 but a few newer scoots seem to respond differently to older ones, usually 2011-2012 models, dont know why.
If you dont like it as is then leave the rollers but try a 1000 big torque spring. Or if you dont have one of those right now you can refit the stock one and try that, its about 850rpm rated. 20mph is way too slow uphill.
Either way you need heavier rollers or a less stiff spring now to raise the gearing a bit, trial and error, and patience im afraid.
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Btw, 5,5g rollers were ok for me too, ran them for over a year with no probs. Wordslinger even used to use 4.7g rollers on a 1000rpm spring.
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Thanks for some input... I figured about the same some trial and error haha was hoping for a magic solution.
My scoot is a 2012 model too. think I'm going to try to mix and match the 5g rollers with the stock 6.5g rollers (alternating of course) and see how it runs...
Maybe the 1500 torque spring is too strong for my liking. Was hoping it would be good for hills and acceleration. The springs I bought were from scooter parts.com and were the HOCCA brand. Bought the single 1500 and the three 1500 springs too.
Thanks for any input. Will get it right sometime!!! Lol
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Oh forgot rollers ask more about the clutch shoes... I did scrape them up when trying to take the clutch apart and am now hearing almost a shearing type noise when about half throttle or more and when hill climbing (full throttle). Thinking this could be the clutch shoes on the clutch bell sliding.... Thoughts?
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Oh forgot rollers ask more about the clutch shoes... I did scrape them up when trying to take the clutch apart and am now hearing almost a shearing type noise when about half throttle or more and when hill climbing (full throttle). Thinking this could be the clutch shoes on the clutch bell sliding.... Thoughts?
Shearing type noise doesnt sound normal or good :o
You did refit the metal little end bit into the end of your new torque spring from the old one i guess? Just asking because i forgot when i did mine 1st time so had to take it apart again ::)
6g seem to work on some newer A50's i think. Mayne buy 5.5 and mix them with the 6.5 you have already to try?
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How heavy is the rider? Also some 1500 springs are stiffer than others, it depends on the brand.
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How heavy is the rider? Also some 1500 springs are stiffer than others, it depends on the brand.
Yup, theres that too...
I know another guy tried 5.5g rollers in his newer a50 with the stock spring and he said they felt too light for him so he went with 6g's and they were ok for him. There must be some change in the newer ones somewhere but who knows what or where ???
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Just over 200 lbs. The springs are the HOCA brand from parts for scooters.
Don't know if anyone knows about the clutch shoe issue... I guess I could find out if they are wearing on the clutch bell next time I take the cvt cover off. Could be the noise I am hearing.... Almost wishing I had just derestricted it and not messed with anything else :'(
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... Almost wishing I had just derestricted it and not messed with anything else :'(
We've all been there, keep at it and once you get it you'll be fine.
How bad did the shoes get damaged? One of my pads has a small corner missing but its still fine. If it was slipping you would hear it, and feel it. You can always take off the clutch bell and use some fine sandpaper to even off the clutch pads if theyre not bad. And rub the inside of the bell too where the pads hit. You can do that without removing the clutch if you take the bell off.
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Trust me tho, you WILL take it apart many more times to get it perfect.
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Will try to sandpaper it down and check for wear... Yeah I feel like I will be breaking it down more than I would like to haha... they sell some naraku clutches and variators at a decent price.... anyone like that brand?
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..i'm liking my naraku variator pretty good in my s9...
..however, the aluminum naraku drive face cracked severely, but would probably work fine on the a50...
..i'm hard on my 2t cvt....
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Naraku is similar to Hoca. They buy/brand China parts. It is good for everyday street use. I would just try the OEM rollers before any other changes. That may get you back to speed. You can also get an entire Naraku TD/clutch at Racing Planet for about 70.00. They are the OEM set just re branded.
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Haven't checked out racing planet yet will do so...
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...yup, i bought the naraku clutch/pulley combo just to get the driven pulleys..
...anybody wanna buy a naraku clutch??
:o ??? :o
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Same specs as stock correct?
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..yup...exact fit...dunno if the fly springs are the same, but its contra felt like oem...
..the flys engaged waay too soon for my s9, so i think they close to 4t specs...
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Ok just changed back to the stock rollers and sanded the clutch shoes... Is much better now. Almost back to normal and quicker off the line. Thinking I should invest in a set of 6g slider weights and a better variator.
The rattle is still there but toned down quite a bit... Not sure what it is but feel it is in the clutch or variator area as it doesnt make the noise when I hold the brake and rev but does when I run. Although like I said it is toned down a lot more.
Still tweekin away! Will get her right soon!
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If 6gr is working for rollers you will want 7gr sliders (dr pulley) They act lighter in the var.
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Still tweekin away! Will get her right soon!
..that's what it's all about!!!
..welcome to th' fold..
8)
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Thanks wordslinger!
Oh no more variables, sliders vs. Rollers argh!!!!! Haha.
Maybe I'll just get some 6g rollers. I put the stock rollers back in which I'm assuming are 6.5g so I think just a touch lighter might be good...
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...oems are 6.5 and if you really want to start fine tuning your cvt, i suggest getting a roller tuning kit..
..theyre like 30-40 bucks, but a good investment if you plan on further mods...
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Almost wishing I had just derestricted it and not messed with anything else
Among the most common regrets . . NOT initially selecting a scooter with a suitable engine displacement for their performance expectations, and desecrating their 50cc into a steaming pile of excrement during the modification learning curve.
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For some people a 50cc is the only choice do to local insurance or licensing requirements.
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True... I did say almost though.
Its back and running better than just the derestrict. Put the stock rollers back and left the 1500 torque and clutch springs...
Still losing a lot of speed on hills though, drops to 30 on most and 20 on steep hills.
About to order a new clutch and variation to try and improve performance some.
I understand the displacement talk, however this is my first scooter/bike and I am still less than a thousand dollars into it so not complaining just looking to get closer to the performance others have achieved on this forum.
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Among the most common regrets . . NOT initially selecting a scooter with a suitable engine displacement for their performance expectations, and desecrating their 50cc into a steaming pile of excrement during the modification learning curve.
But thats the whole fun bit??? Tuning and customising has always been a major part of the scooter scene since the 60's, if it wasnt for that i doubt it wouldve become so popular to ride a scooter. If it breaks beyond repair i can pick up a replacement engine for peanuts and start again.
You might want to order a 1000rpm spring and try that acrab, that may be suited better for the newer agilitys. You should not lose speed uphill but gain it. If you still lose it on the 6g rollers i would try the 1000 spring before buying a new clutch. Depends how bad the pads got damaged tho from before.
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Thanks... From looking at the stock clutch pads/shoes compared to aftermarket setups the stock ones seem really small and cheap... Might just try a decent one not a really high dollar one and then mess with the springs more etc
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..you NEED lighter rollers, to keep that 4t engine up in the pipe's powerband....
...help greatly with those hills...
..a multivar issa plus, as well...
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Guess I went too light when I bought my rollers the first time. Got 5g and it was pretty terrible. Still need to try the mix of the 5g an stock 6.5g.
Still looking for a new variator and clutch setup to give me a boost... Want to get the best bang for the buck. Seems like a lot of times one place will have one thing and one will have another one........
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Yeah i dont know what it is with these newer A50's but they def dont tune up the same as the older ones :-\
Maybe they changed something in the cvt somewhere but it def seems they respond differently than the older ones to mods. 5.1g work out great on my '08, in fact im even thinking of buying 4.9g/5g ones next to see what thats like. On the 5.1's my scoot just runs so much better and the revs stay up between 6000-7500rpm all day long at most speeds. Maybe one the engine wears in more on the new a50's they will work better on the lighter rollers, i almost have 22,000km on mine now and it feels as good as ever, prob running at its best ever right now.
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..i could not get the performance outta my fairly new 09 engine that i ever got from my 08..
..and i didnt start mods on the 08 engine until after 30,000kms...
..itsa true story...
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"prob running at its best ever right now"
Un Jinx
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..i could not get the performance outta my fairly new 09 engine that i ever got from my 08..
..and i didnt start mods on the 08 engine until after 30,000kms...
..itsa true story...
I got my 08 2nd hand when it had 7-8,000km on it and was still restricted. Maybe its to do with how they get run in from new?
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"Maybe its to do with how they get run in from new?"
Has everything to do with breakin. Blow by, and low compression come from never allowing the rings to seat.
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..yeah, i hopped on that 08, and just throttled open from th get-go!!...
..had 8 kms onnit when i bought it..
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If 6gr is working for rollers you will want 7gr sliders (dr pulley) They act lighter in the var.
I thought Dr. Pulley sliders compensated for the way they behave differently compared to rollers??? Thought I read something about that a while ago... But, I don't have a set so it would be good to know before I order a pair to find out they are too light all of the sudden, those suckers are expensive.
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..of course, every scoot's different, but dr p sliders, or even ninja sliders react differently than rollers..
..in my experience, anyway....
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Are the sliders really that much better or make that much of a difference?
Seems like everybody has trouble putting them in the variator too...
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..they are better, and honestly, i can't for the life of me understand why ppl find them difficult to install..
..dang, they give you a frikin pic to go by...
..and there are at least a 100 how-tos on the internets...
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Haha never tried to put em in myself just regular rollers... Have just seen a bunch of posts about them.
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I think it comes down to How you ride. I find loads of faults with them in a 2t application but love them in my 4t. It's just about riding style really.
If you want the same rpm as rollers go 1gr heavier w/ Dr.P.. Regardless what they say.
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..i love sliders in my s9!!
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This S9?????????
MGM Cow Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlPENxzYwWY#ws)
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...i love that cow....
...yup, that's her!!!
..tho, she's changed a bit in recent weeks....
..got a distinctly higher pitch now...
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8)
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I think it comes down to How you ride. I find loads of faults with them in a 2t application but love them in my 4t. It's just about riding style really.
If you want the same rpm as rollers go 1gr heavier w/ Dr.P.. Regardless what they say.
So 6.0 Dr. P sliders would be equivalent to 5.0 rollers? Never heard mention of this before? I've been running 6.0 Dr. P sliders for about a year now and was thinking about stepping down to 5.5's. Now I don't know if that would be the best way to go.
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..if you're not quite happy with the 6 drps, then by all means, drop down to 5.5s...what's the worry??
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That's fine. If you were to go to rollers you would need to add a gram but just lightening dr.p. is fine.