KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => People 50 => Topic started by: vdubn on June 19, 2012, 12:08:30 AM
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Ok, so I have been working on this People 50 for a couple days, and wanted to see if I could get a quick opinion from you guys.
It starts perfect, idles good, but when I hop on it and give it gas, it sputters a bit, then takes off ok, and feels like it just falls on its face at about 10 to 15 mph. Nothing is slipping, and its smoking a bit (which is normal), the carb is full of fuel, etc.
I ran it around the block a couple times, and shut it off at wide open throttle so that I could do a plug check. Plug looks pretty light, grey-ish, intead of a nice brown color.
So, I pulled the carb, and it looks amazingly clean in there. I went ahead and blew it all out and put it back together, with a new plug. I put it on the center stand, and revved it out a bit, and I could tell its really having a hard time hitting any high rpms.
So, I took the Variator apart and found flat rollers, so I am replacing those tonight, and will try it out again to see if some of the rev issue was from a stuck variator.
Any ideas?
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What kind of mods do you have if any?
Has the scooter been de-restricted?
What size is your main jet? The factory main jet tends to be very small due to restrictions so if it was de-restricted but the main jet wasn't changed it will run lean.
Sounds like you may have a combination of issues. The new rollers will help restore performance. Check the drive belt width. 17mm is the service limit.
Manual if you need it:
"http://www.scribd.com/doc/18774028/Kymco-People-50-EN"
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I'd check your compression as well. Sounds like the issues I was having. I checked my compression and it was around 90 PSI. Should be in the 130's minimum.
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+1 :)
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Great questions... forgot to add some info...
No mods, stock main jet (75), and it looks like the variator has the de-restricted sleeve.
I was thinking compression as well, but it starts so well. It has 124psi compression. I know that is borderline, but it shouldn't affect the top end so much, should it?
I have a 70cc kit that just arrived today, so thinking of installing the 8 gram rollers I just got, this 70cc kit, and a 98 main jet... thoughts?
Also, the bike has 13000kMs on it, but the bottom end should be fine, right?
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Well, I got the rollers in the mail today, but they are 7 grams, not the 8 that I thought Scooterworks was sending. Any opinions on running the 7 gram rollers vs the stock ones or 8 gram aftermarket ones?
I have the bike apart, thinking of just installing the 70cc kit and go from there.
Any affordable exhaust options, or is the stock setup actually ok? I pulled the stock exhaust and there was no restriction of any kind inside the pipe... I thought there might be a washer or something inside.
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Try the rollers see how you like them. Really just depends on your situation. So many different factors. Riding style, purpose of the scooter, types of roads you'll be on, the terrain of your area. If you're riding on flat roads all the time you might like a heavier roller.
Hell yeah! Throw that kit on it. Just remember to get your jetting right.
What year is your scoot? Earlier models have much less restrictive exhaust. Tecnigas makes good pipes.
Check out http://www.racingplanetusa.com/index.php?sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/index.php?sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62)
I think zombie said mention the forum for a discount :)
If you do buy exhaust I recommend going ahead and getting the Tecnigas RS2 instead of the Next R to match the BBK. I wish I had.
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Yea, I think I will just install the kit. Its easy to do at this point. The scooter is a 2001, and is mostly just a grocery getter, and scooter that we will haul to the beach in our truck, so the wife and I can run around town together, so there will be some hills occasionally.
I received a 98 main jet yesterday with the kit, is that a good starting spot with the 70cc kit? I got a 102 as well, but its a Keihn jet, so I need to exchange it for the correct style. Just curious what you guys with kits and stock pipes are running for your main jet.
I read the post where art shows where to drill the airbox, so I was thinking of doing the same thing to help with air flow. If you guys have a recommended air cleaner, please post a link, I might just opt to get that instead... I don't mind the intake noise if there is any.
I heard the exhaust on the 2001's wasn't very restrictive, so I figured I would wait on exhaust for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Yeah, you're probably fine with the stock exhaust for now
Drilling holes in the air-box cover is a great way to gain airflow. I have about 5 5/8 holes in mine
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What kit do you have?
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The kit I'm running is a Malossi 72cc cast iron kit. I've been told that it's a really good kit for the kymco peoe 50.
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That's what I have. If you take your time and chamfer and polish ports and edges(not the cylinder walls) it will be even better. Gap the rings. Do everything I didn't do. ;)
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Did you have any problems? What main jet are you running (stock carb I assume)?
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Ok, so I put in the 7gram rollers tonight, and fired it up... I wanted to see if I could just get it running good before I put the kit on. I was hoping to at least get it to a solid running state before making changes.
So, I fired it up, and revved it up, and it revs quick off idle now, but then it stumbled quickly again, and kind of just stutters. I noticed also, it seems to be smoking a lot... not sure why. Fills up the garage with smoke pretty quick. If I hold it at full throttle, it seems to open up a bit after holding it, but its definitely not smooth. Now, I am just revving it on the center stand, as the bike is torn apart at the moment. Without any load on it, I shut it off and checked the plug, and its pretty black.
I am thinking of just pulling the cylinder/head/piston and swap over to the bigger kit, disable the oil injection pump, and pre-mix from here on out, and see what happens.
Any ideas?
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I am thinking of just pulling the cylinder/head/piston and swap over to the bigger kit, disable the oil injection pump, and pre-mix from here on out, and see what happens.
Any ideas?
That sounds like a good one!
Your certainly flooding out by the way you describe it. Check to see that the choke is working.
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Could the choke be stuck on? If so, how would I tell? There are no issues starting, cold or warm.
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Pull the unit out of the carb/make a mark on the small pin/turn on the key. The pin has to move 4mm min.
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If no movement, is it stuck on or off? In other words, if its defective, does it automatically fail on, so I would get a rich condition? I figured it would fail off, so potentially cause cold-start problems.
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What happens is it fails ON. It is a wax filled element so as the bike warms up so does the choke. It may warm enough to close but rarely does if it is a mechanical failure vs an electrical failure.
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Good call, thanks... I didn't know. So, if its defective, which it probably is.. is there a way to bypass it or elliminate it (other than replace the carb with a manual choke or get a new electric choke)?
Thanks
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New electric for OEM or a better carb. You can get a whole carb on ebay for parts CHEAP. 25 bucks/free shipping/usa sellers... You'll have one in a few days.
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Any recommendations of where to buy a better carb, that won't break the bank?
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http://www.spi-parts.com/ (http://www.spi-parts.com/)
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/ (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/)
http://www.treatland.tv/ (http://www.treatland.tv/)
Mention the forum at any one of them.
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Alright, I'll start looking... after looking it over, I bet that is the issue, and would explain all of the smoke as well.
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I've choked out a few shops.
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Nowhere you mention if it is a 4 stroke or a 2 stroke...you mention you have a light grey plug. Running hot, which means too lean with gas. It seems to confirm your stumbling problems. Can you see if your airbox is stock. If too much air gets in with the stock jets in the carb, it will run lean. Try closing the air intake a bit to see what happens. Usually, a lean engine runs better when ambient air is warmer.
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Its a 2 stroke engine, and a 2001.
Can anyone tell me if the following intake will work with the Kymco 50:
http://www.scooterworks.com/NCY-Aluminum-Intake-Manifold-Yamaha-Minarelli-P7525.aspx (http://www.scooterworks.com/NCY-Aluminum-Intake-Manifold-Yamaha-Minarelli-P7525.aspx)
I found a 19mm aftermarket carb, and this intake, just wanted to see if anyone here knows if it will work?
Here is the carb kit that I was looking at as well:
http://www.scooterworks.com/Malossi-Carb-Buddy-50-People-Cobra-19mm-P2328C509.aspx (http://www.scooterworks.com/Malossi-Carb-Buddy-50-People-Cobra-19mm-P2328C509.aspx)
Just curious if this would be a decent option?
I also found this racing carb, which I ran on my sons 90cc ETon ATV, and it ran pretty good:
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-naraku-21mm-p-21455-1.html?cPath=2_18_106&sessID=eb5e23d7ec0bd302e8cad651d6f56cbc (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-naraku-21mm-p-21455-1.html?cPath=2_18_106&sessID=eb5e23d7ec0bd302e8cad651d6f56cbc)
Your thoughts...
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Generally a People 50 is the 2t and People 50 s is 4t
Not sure about that intake
The Malossi carb kit is excellent. It's what I have. It's actually a Del Orto carb but a malossi kit. Del Orto carbs are top of the line. Never had any issues with mine. You'll love the manual choke too. I hate auto choke. You may be able to find it cheaper than Scooterworks. Much cheaper here and you should get a forum discount : http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-malossi-phbg-19mm-kymco-sf10-p-314-1.html?cPath=2_18_106&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-malossi-phbg-19mm-kymco-sf10-p-314-1.html?cPath=2_18_106&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62)
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Perfect... so did you need anything else with that kit? Aircleaner, intake, etc.? If not, I'll just grab that one. Also, I'm guessing that it uses Dellorto jets... what size main jet are you running with your 70cc kit and that carb?
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Nope, the kit has everything you need. Will work with stock intake and air box.
I'm at about a 98 MJ with the Malossi BBK, Tecnigas Next R, and Malossi 19mm carb kit. I have about 8g rollers with malossi variator, yellow clutch springs, and red contra spring.
This 90-110 set should cover all bases:
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/main-sets-naraku-dellorto-carburetor-p-23453-1.html?cPath=2_18_106&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/main-sets-naraku-dellorto-carburetor-p-23453-1.html?cPath=2_18_106&sessID=0b7a6bfa6ae6650a1fc6b723da4d6e62)
You'll want a wide range of jets to make tuning easier.
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Awesome! I just ordered that carb from Scooterworks for only $5 more than RacingPlanet, and they shipped it out today (Racing Planet had it on order, and it was more than a week away). I also ordered the jet kit and exhaust studs from RacingPlanet. Hopefully I should have everything mid-week next week.
I thought about an exhaust as well, but I have been told the early people pipes aren't that restrictive, so I thought I could save some funds for now.
Peters, did you modify your airbox at all, or is it totally stock?
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I drilled 5/8" holes in my air box lid. I have about 5.
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Cool... did you make a nice pattern ;D
If you have a pic, that would be cool. I'm sure I can figure something out either way.
I think the bike should run tremendously better without the auto choke. I have always opted for manual choke if I can, it just removes any mystery about the choke affecting the way the bike runs.
Also, did you use the new reeds that the Malossi kit came with? They look like nice reeds.
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Do not use the reeds that came in the kit. They're not meant for the ppl.
My patterns not very cool :-[. Do whatever pattern you want :). I started with just 2 or 3 and added more later.
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Are you going to run Pre-mix? If so go ahead and remove the shaft off the oil pump and plug the inlet and vacuum lines.
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Yes, I thought about leaving the pump in there and just adding some oil to the tank to make up for it, but the more I think about it, I think I will just pre-mix the whole tank. What ratio do you guys run?
If I pull the shaft out, what should I use to plug the hole where the shaft was, or is the shaft inside and the cover just goes back on without the shaft?
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You could, but it's better to run pre-mix for consistency. I mix about 3.3 oz per gallon or 16.5 for 5 gallons. I think that's about 38:1
The shaft pulls right out the bottom of the pump. Then just reinstall the pump without the shaft. Plug the lines going to the pump.
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Sounds good... somewhere I had read that if you just pull out the drive gear it could leave a void that can cause a lean condition (as if something doesn't seal, and allows air behind the carb). Sounds like you have done this, so I'll take your word for it. Plus it sounds easy enough.
Have you guys ever seen issues with the stock reeds causing issues, or ever needing to be replaced in these scooters? My scooter has like 13000kMs on it, so its no spring chicken.
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I don't think reeds go bad very often. You can buy carbon fiber sheets and cut your own reeds.
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The steel reeds do crack, and often times break off. It's among the first items to change.
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So, the inspection is just to look and see if the steel reeds are cracked? Do you know of replacement reeds that are a good swap out, in the event that mine have any issues?
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Ok, so I just opened up the Malossi 70cc kit, and noticed that it doesn't come with a new wrist pin needle bearing. Is that normal, is there not a needle bearing, or just reuse the old one? Any opinions from others would be great.
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Yeah that's normal. Use the old one if it's still clean. If you don't mind waiting and spending 10 or 15 bucks you can order a bearing for peace of mind. Soak the piston, rings, bearing, and pin in a little 2t oil overnight before installation.
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Soak in just oil, not mixed fuel? I haven't ever done that before... curious why you recommend it?
Thanks for clarifying about the needle bearing, I was hoping that was the case.
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I'd rinse everything in gas and soak in just oil. Just to make sure the wrist has plenty of oil during the first few runs. 2 strokes depend on residual oil on the bearings/wrist pins between runs. And the rings, well, just to make everything happy the first few runs ;D ;)
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..lube is goooood...
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Ok, thanks....
Here are some pictures of the work I have been doing... I haven't seen this documented on here, at least with pics, so I thought it might help someone.
After pulling the cylinder and piston, soaking the needle bearing and all new parts, I prepped the new cylinder with some new exhaust studs that I got to avoid having to pull and use the old ones:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_exh_studs.jpg)
Then I set out to disable the oil injection pump. First I disconnected the oil line to the tank and drained the oil:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_tank.jpg)
I need to get a cap for the tank outlet, and then I'll put just enough oil in the tank so that the light won't come on.
Once the oil was removed, then I pulled the oil pump out of the block. I then noticed that the gear assembly just came right out of the pump body, and on the end it looks like it threads into the pump. I think that the threads are the actual pump that pushes oil into the motor. You guys all probably new this, but, it was new info to me. I pulled the clip and the seal out as well... here are the pics of it disassembled, and with the caps on the ports:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_pump1.jpg)
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_pump2.jpg)
Then I reinstalled the pump, and plugged off the intake manifold as well and made sure that the O-ring was in good shape and sealed nicely when installed:
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_oil_pump_installed.jpg)
Finally, I cleaned up the cylinder mounting surface of the block, with my brillo pad attachment... it came out nice.
(http://www.vdubn.com/kymco/people_50_block_cleanup.jpg)
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Lookin good! ;D
Nice documentation too. Perfect! :) Start a new thread with a topic like "Installing a BBK on people 2t" and copy your last post. All resources for the newbies that come along ;)
Btw, you can remove the oil tank all together and plug the oil light wires into each other. This bypasses the light switch and the light will never come on again.
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Not a bad idea....