KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => zx50 => Topic started by: ohface70 on June 10, 2012, 11:50:02 PM
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I am in need of a new cdi and ignition coil. I have a 2003 zx50 superfever. This is the first issue EVER. The ignition wire has rusted in half. I am not sure if I need to replace the CDI. However, I wanted to know where to get one as I am not sure if it is AC or DC. If anyone can assist me, I would really appriciate it.
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Should I also replace the stator? The issues that I am having. The ignition coil wire was rusted and broke in half. Very LOW spark if any at all. While having a broken coil wire, would it affect the cdi at all? Meaning would it ruin or put resistance to the cdi and burn it out at all? Not sure. All I know is I need an igntion coil asap.
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The cdi is AC...Here is the cheapest option which requires a little wiring (basically follow the tracer color)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance-race-5-pin-CDI-Kymco-ZX-50cc-SA50-SR50-NB50-/280627819861?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item4156b8b555&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance-race-5-pin-CDI-Kymco-ZX-50cc-SA50-SR50-NB50-/280627819861?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item4156b8b555&vxp=mtr)
Here is an ignition coil from the same place
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-PERFORMANCE-SCOOTER-IGNITION-COIL-GY6-50cc-150cc-/270544437980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3efdb482dc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-PERFORMANCE-SCOOTER-IGNITION-COIL-GY6-50cc-150cc-/270544437980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3efdb482dc)
I am currently running both of the above, but I also ran across this "set" as well, it looks the same, but cannot guarantee 100% http://www.ebay.com/itm/50cc-150cc-High-Performance-Racing-CDI-Ignition-Coil-Scooter-Moped-GY6-ATV-110-/280810144915?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416196c493&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/50cc-150cc-High-Performance-Racing-CDI-Ignition-Coil-Scooter-Moped-GY6-ATV-110-/280810144915?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416196c493&vxp=mtr)
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I am at a point that I need assistance. I have recently purchased a cdi and a new ignition coil. Put them on, ran well, but then died. If I give it a touch of fuel, it will putter, but that is it. It seems like it is electrical as it will run a bit, and do more of an on/off running..if this makes sense. I have been messing with this scooter for a year since I moved. I have cleaned the carb, spark plug, air filter, cdi, and coil. What am I missing? On top of that, before I moved I put on new tires and exhaust because I dont have a scooter machanic here in Omaha, Nebraska. I wanna go back to STL!
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Check the coil to be sure you have it wired correctly. Green is ground, and one of the tabs on the coil has a green marker on it. Other than that I'd say you have a different issue. Maybe an air leak in the case.
Try a compression test FIRST. It must be over 120psi to run at all. If that is good you should do a Pressure test of the entire engine. This will tell if you have any air leaks. Most people assume the case is sealed but in reality most have some leak. If your seals are worn it will act as you describe.
TSG Tuning Leak Down Pressure Tester - Demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RzEjXdaEUs#)
The fella that made this vid also sells the tester...
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Went to the parts store and rented the compression tester. 60psi. >:( Can anyone direct me on what to do next. Where to buy a kit to fix my issue. Maybe even a how to video or even a pdf of how to install.
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Well now you are in a whole new world. I can type for the next 24 hours, and never get everything involved in kitting. A bunch of us can walk you thru it all but you have to start at the begining.
What is it you need the scoot to do? A daily commute? Weekend Groceries? In OEM trim the scoot can do between 45-50 mph. Is that enough?
Your rebuild will depend on those questions. The money/time spent also is directly linked.
We can all help find the lowest prices for parts so before hitting Ebay... Figure out what you need. NOT how much you want to spend. If you just try to "cheap" out... You can send me the money instead because it will all fall apart in short order.
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Okay, so I re did the compression and I am at 99psi. Low for sure. But it should run. I put a new plug in, but it is getting wet within 1 minute of running. Got it going....rode a few minutes....and quit. Pulled the plug and it is wet. Re do it, ran it again and its not wet, but it wont run. I have cranked it and every 20 or so kicks and it makes a 'puff' noise out of the exhaust. Is this a sign of worn piston/seal?
To your question, it is a few times a week scooter. It used to be daily, but do to a relocation, it is 2 times a week. So I guess I would just like to get it to run. I don't want to have to buy a new carb and exhaust to accomidate a big bore kit. 45-50 mph is enough for me. Zombie, thank you for your assistance.
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The symptoms you described are all indicative of low compression. If you just want to get it running again with the lowest amount of money and effort...just pull the cylinder off and inspect it. Count on buying a new oem piston and rings for now. Check out Stadium Yamaha for oem parts.
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Shaka got it right. Get a gasket set for the cylinder including an exhaust gasket. If there are no scratches inside the bore a new piston/rings will do it. Mention the forum, and get a 15% discount on parts. There are no cheap replacement pistons for the ZX so don't bother. For all around improvement Id get a new belt, rollers, and variator slides. All this should run about 150.00 shipped.
If that is more than the scoot is worth to you post it for sale here, for around 200.00 as is, and I'm sure it will sell.
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Okay, so In the last 50 miles, I have put on the rollers and a new belt. I can not remember if I put on slides. I think I can repair the compression problem. Would one of you be able to send me the links to the piston/ring combo I would need? Should I pull it off and send you a picture to ensure what I need? Would anyone have a link to a PDF of a step by step removal and install should I run into a snag?
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Here's the service manual http://www.kymco.it/contributi/download/MANUALI_OFFICINA/MO%20ZX50%20(inglese).zip (http://www.kymco.it/contributi/download/MANUALI_OFFICINA/MO%20ZX50%20(inglese).zip)
Pull off the cylinder and post up some pics..... ;D
Here is the cylinder http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/SC10AS_ZX50/Cylinder_%26_Cylinder_Head/2K01120005/01120005 (http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/SC10AS_ZX50/Cylinder_%26_Cylinder_Head/2K01120005/01120005)
Here is the piston http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/SC10AS_ZX50/Crankshaft_%26_Piston/2K01120005/01120021 (http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/SC10AS_ZX50/Crankshaft_%26_Piston/2K01120005/01120021)
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If it turns out you need a cylinder I have a used one in good condition that I can sell you for 20.00. I will never have a better use for it.
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At this time, I have removed the plug and the 4 bolts that hold down the head. I took that off. The combustion chamber looked like the inside of my smoker. Good for smokers, not for scooters. I cleaned that out with a towel. Now, I dont want to ruin the cylinder, but how much force is needed to get that off? Should the piston be up or down when I try to get it off? Can I use a rubber mallet? I looked down the exhaust hole and see lots of vertical scratches on the piston. I do not have any tools to measure. Will a kit OEM be okay to use? Is this something better left to a pro? The scooter scene in Nebraska stinks. No one works on them. How do you know if you can just replace rings and piston or when you have to get a new cylinder? When the cylinder comes off, I assume I would need to buy a new gasket. So on the list is an exhaust gasket, rings, piston, and cylinder gasket. Is this correct?
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Head gasket, exhaust gasket, cylinder base gasket, spark plug fuel filter, and air filter. A rubber mallet is probally the best idea to unstick the base gasket. Prying on the cylinder may break a fin, or worse the case. Just get it loose, and pull it straight up, and off. Imedeatly after stuff the crankcase with a soft towel so Nothing can get past it, or into the case. Clean up the old gasket... For a new kit you will need to upgrade your carb, reeds,air filter,pipe. All that will cost at least three hundred. A new OEM jug, and piston are listed on Stadium Yamaha. Just call for pricing, and Mention the forum. You will have to follow this exactly for the install... Find the tiny pins in the ring groves. They line up the rings so they can not catch on any of the ports.Install the rings so the ends "sandwich" the pins. Press the rings tight, and slide the piston into the bore untill you can just get the wrist pin, and one circlip installed. (use 2t oil on ALL the parts to make it work) Install the bearing set into the con rod, and lower the jug/piston into position over the rod. Now you can push in the wrist pin, and install the other circlip. Slide it all into place, and you are 90% done.
Ride it at NO MORE than 1/2 throttle for approx 100 miles before giving ANY short wot blasts. After approx 200 miles you should be fine to rip it up.
On a side note: Dis assemble your carb completely, and spray Brake clean, or any other type solvent thru every passage to insure it was not the carb the killed your bike.
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I will use a rubber hammer to try to get it off. I hope I can get by with just a top end. I will keep you posted and your help is greatly appriciated.
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No trouble Ohface
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Brake cleaner will eat the rubber seals. Use carb/choke cleaner.
If the piston is scratched the cylinder is likely scored too. Either way it has to come off. Rubber hammer will do the trick. If it's real stubborn you can use a block of wood and some careful, gentle, taps with a hammer working your way around the cylinder. Never pry.
You seem to want to go the OEM route :-\. If it were me, I'd go ahead and get a BBK ;). But if you must go OEM, buy the cylinder from zombie and order a piston and gasket set from http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/ (http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/)
Good luck :)
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Holy sh@@! The ring set is $35. The damn piston is only $30!
Go for a big bore kit. Really won't cost that much more
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The Polini Piston alone is 90 bucks, the ring set is 45.
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You could get a Malossi sport for about 200. Then add the pipe/carb/jets/air filter to make it work right. Not trying to talk you down... Just being realistic. I have close to 4g's in mine today, and the parts are still arriving.
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So you would either go polini or malossi for the bbk on the ZX zombie? The cheap ones on eBay are no good huh?
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I have a Polini Corsa. I had the Malossi sport, and Ruima 50mm. The Ruima is dog crap, the Malossi Sport is a very good long lasting kit, the Malossi MHR is their top offering, and the Polini Evo has to be adapted to fit. (it's made for the S9 but can be fitted.)
In MY opinion the Polini is the best kit for the money. They are strong, and FAST. They also need less work to prep for install than Malossi.
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If you are looking to get one check out Racing Planet, and Scooter Parts International. I have accounts, and can get them for you Much cheaper.
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Definitely want one, just as soon as I have the money. I need some jobs! Nature of my work. December and early summer are always slow for us. But when it rains it pours. :)
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Certainly won't hurt to start shopping around though
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Shopping is half the fun for me. Same with passing along the deals. I do the same with my Marine customers. I charge them what I pay, and have more work than I can handle. Lot's of pissed off "used to be" mechanics around here. I tell them all the same thing... "Stop raping your customers, and you might have some work!"
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No doubt! That's the way it should be. :)
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I take great satisfaction when a customer shakes my hand and says "you guys did a great job". Every once in a while I do get an a-hole though. Funny how people's attitude changes from when I first get there and they see a 24 year old kid and think "oh sh**" to by the time I leave and they're extremely satisfied and saying "Really glad you guys came and installed my lift. You want a beer?"
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Saw a sign similar to this installing a lift at a customer's shop. Thought it was great.
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th2_laborrates11x17.jpg)
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I've learned to read the customers... On Friday afternoon I got a call from a referred fella that broke a trailer wheel bearing. I got him to the shop, and he also wanted a bottom paint job... I quoted /he left. He called 2 hours later to ask if I would go back to the shop (7:30 Fri) so he and his wife could take some picts. of the boat "in case you damage anything". I said "Sure Thing".
When they arrived his boat was waiting on the edge of my property for him to take it home.
Maybe he should have visited the forum first...
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:D :D :D :D
I have a feeling that the wife was the one who raised hell about taking pictures when he got home :D
Last job I did, Wednesday, the guy told his wife the lift had some mud on the base because I was kicking it to align it properly(solid steel that will hurt my foot long before it hurts the lift). He tells me she said, "you paid all that money and he's kicking it!" The guy tells me, "well I told her I kicked it once too" :D. He was cool but a little bit of a pain in the ass. This guy insisted we didn't get mud on his concrete after it rained the night before. His building was new construction and surrounded by mud. Well how the hell am I supposed to back the truck in or carry tools in without getting mud on the concrete? Just have to suck it up sometimes ;)
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I think the investment to put a BBK on is worth the money. However, I am not sure affording all the other items is within the budget. If I can go 45 with OEM, that is good enough for me. I will look into a kit, but I am not sure how to tune a carb very well, so I am stuck with having someone tune it for me. I will talk to my scooter guy back in ST. Louis as I am going down there in July. He tried talking me into one a year ago as I had to decide between new tires or a BBK. Went with tires, should of went with BBK at this point. I might be emailing about the cylinder. Is anyone on this forum in Nebraska?
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I can not seem to upload the piston/cylinder pics. If zombie you have an email, I can send them to you. The piston has major vertical chunks out of it. The cylinder wall does not though. What normally goes wrong in situations like this? It is a 2001 with 4500 miles on it. I think just a rebuild is the way I can afford to go. I want to get a BBK, but the other items that need to be changed would be out of a budget for now. I want to get ahold of that cylinder if I can for 20 bucks. What is the best way to go about this? Paypal? Thanks again.
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"I want to get a BBK, but the other items that need to be changed would be out of a budget for now."
Understandable
Use http://photobucket.com/ (http://photobucket.com/) to post pics on here. Copy and paste the image code into your post.
"What normally goes wrong in situations like this?"
Hard to say. 4500 miles is not a lot. I would definitely inspect the carburetor and lubrication systems thoroughly.
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What should I be looking for in the carb and the oil pump? I know the oil pump works as I have to put the 2stroke oil in when I fill up.
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Damage comes within minutes of no lubrication.
Here's a link to the manual
http://www.kymco.it/contributi/download/MANUALI_OFFICINA/MO%20ZX50%20(inglese).zip (http://www.kymco.it/contributi/download/MANUALI_OFFICINA/MO%20ZX50%20(inglese).zip)
I just downloaded it myself. Save it to your computer. I've used the one for my People countless times. It's a very valuable resource.
With the carb, mostly just give it a good cleaning. A can a carb/choke cleaner works great. Remove all the jets then put the straw on the can and blow out all the ports and passages.
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Post some pics of your piston and cylinder. Zombie reads pistons. He may be able to shed some light on what caused the failure.
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posting these pics for ohface70
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/piston2.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/piston1.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/cylinder.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/3.jpg)
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Is that the bike in the bottom Pict? It already has a pipe on it. 1/2 the cost of a bbk is right there. Anyway... The piston did destroy the cylinder. Is the TOP of the piston burnt or pitted? If it is JUST the sides below the rings it is an Oil failure, or a newly developed air leak. An Extreme leak at that. Cheap walmart 2toil is notorious for failing in scoots same with hardware store chainsaw oil. First thing is to get out any suspect oil, and buy a good injector oil, at a Bike shop. Second... I would suggest doing a pressure test after installing a cylinder. There is a bit of work to doing this but it really has to be done so that you do not destroy all your work in a few miles. TSG Tuning Leak Down Pressure Tester - Demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RzEjXdaEUs#)
http://www.theultralightplace.com/pistons.htm (http://www.theultralightplace.com/pistons.htm) Compare the second link to your piston to get a first hand idea.
. I have a good jug, and gasket set. I' will sell the gasket set for 5 bucks (what I paid), and the jug for 20. Where are you? Nebraska? It might cost 10 bucks to ship it. I'll find out today. I'll post back after work, and we can PM details. I can send you the parts, and you can payapl after you get them. It's all good.
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Looks like lubrication issue. 1 year ago I was stuck in a hail/rain storm. Water was over the edge of where your feet go. I can assure you this has to be when it happened cause it has never ran right since that day. I though it was just the ignition coil (it was broken from corrosion) but looks like it was from the rain. And man was that a rain. My neck looked like I had about 20 hickies on it from the hail. Piston with lubrication failure. I use motul (spell check) 2 stroke oil. Is this a good oil?
Zombie, lets chat. It seems you can assist me quite abit. Yes, that is a picture of the scooter. I put that exhaust and the tires on 50 miles ago. Can you talk me through or send me a link for a BBK if it is within my budget. I am gone tonight, but I will check this when I get back.
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http://www.racingplanetusa.com/cylinder-malossi-sport-70cc-kymco-honda-daelim-p-116-1.html?cPath=2_622_1680&sessID=a89041074f6f5e063486f73694443d1f (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/cylinder-malossi-sport-70cc-kymco-honda-daelim-p-116-1.html?cPath=2_622_1680&sessID=a89041074f6f5e063486f73694443d1f)
Is this the kit you were speaking of?
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That's the kit. Sounds like you're on the right track.
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Sent Pm...