KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: jprestonian on April 30, 2009, 02:29:00 PM
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... and since the two bolts that drain the crankcase are tight (one being the drainplug, which is bone dry), I have to figure it's either the head gasket, or the one of the seals on the crankcase.
I bet this gets costly... at least it's running, and running fine. However, it had drained all but 0.3L overnight. :(
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How many miles on it?
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~8400km, or ~5200mi
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Can you see where the leak is comming from..Above the oil drains??? Have you run the engine after you refill it? Check your air filter...Is there an excess amout of oil there also?? What im getting at is an overfill of oil..Seals normally dont just let go..
Is there any warranty left? Check with your local dealer....
Good Luck
OlBull
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Can't see exactly where the oil is coming from, no, but the area around the drain plug is bone-dry. There's a bolt on the other side which also drains the crankcase, but it is tight, as well.
Once it had "leaked out" to its lowest level (leaving ~0.4L in the crankcase), adding more oil caused the leak to immediately start, again. It appears to be coming from the head or cylinder, looking at where this fresh, clean oil ran down from. The leak hits the center stand, and causes a drop of oil to hit the ground about every 10 seconds.
No warranty, and not an overfill situation, but the leak seems to have slowed, somewhat. The engine runs fine... I just make sure I top it back off before I ride it (not that I'm riding much, but it is my sole transportation... the near-constant rain this past week has helped curb my urge to travel frivolously, heh). I'll take it to my dealer Friday, when his mechanic is in. He'll have to diagnose it and then order parts...
Until then, I'll keep 'er topped off before I start it up. The oil pressure light has not come on, yet (except during start-up, to let you know the bulb is good), which I hope is a good sign.
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Took 'er in for diagnosis, today.
Appears to be a catastrophic failure of the "lower" head gasket (between the jug and the crankcase).
HOWEVER... tonight, I noticed something new.
I took off on a short errand, and it being totally dark, I saw that the oil pressure light was just *barely* trying to light. So, I pulled over, engine running, and unscrewed the dipstick.
When I removed the dipstick, it's like I opened up a second exhaust pipe on that mutha. Exhaust gasses hit me in the face(shield) with great force, and the noise was what one might expect from a straight pipe on a 250cc.
Hmmm. Wrong hole!
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If we were talking about a cage I'd say, "clogged PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve." When they get clogged up the crankcase doesn't vent and oil starts to blow out of some of the strangest places. Does a P250 have such a thing? Before the days of PCV cars used to develop the same symptom if the crankcase down pipe (just a pipe that vented the crankcase directly to the atmosphere) got clogged up with debris.
Either way, it would explain the blown gasket.
Hope this helps. Best.....
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Took 'er in for diagnosis, today.
Appears to be a catastrophic failure of the "lower" head gasket (between the jug and the crankcase).
HOWEVER... tonight, I noticed something new.
I took off on a short errand, and it being totally dark, I saw that the oil pressure light was just *barely* trying to light. So, I pulled over, engine running, and unscrewed the dipstick.
When I removed the dipstick, it's like I opened up a second exhaust pipe on that mutha. Exhaust gasses hit me in the face(shield) with great force, and the noise was what one might expect from a straight pipe on a 250cc.
Hmmm. Wrong hole!
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Fairly easy fix... No sign of coolant in the engine oil? Head gasket failure is usually related to overheating...Please keep us abreast of the end diagnosis..
OlBull
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It is very strange that the gasket would blow at only 8400km. Never heard of blown gaskets on scooters of non-Italian origin. :)
Btw. is there a possibility that the oil and coolant fluid would mix if that gasket blows? Or is it some other gasket?
Please update us what happened finally.
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Coolant: None detected in the oil, and the bike's not overheating (of course, that may be because I'm not riding it very far until this gets fixed!).
It's difficult to tell from this diagram (http://kymcojones.blogspot.com/2009/04/just-guess.html), since there's no rear view of the cylinder, but if I were designing it, I wouldn't have the coolant passages go all the way through to the bottom gasket, since there's nothing to worry about having to cool below it. So, if that's the gasket that gave out, I can see where the oil and coolant wouldn't have a chance to mix.
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FIXED (http://kymcojones.blogspot.com/2009/05/catastrophic-fail.html). But it's not all sunshine and puppies, yet.
Now, it's exhibiting signs that there's a leak in the air intake (dies after riding, and coming to a stop -- have to keep some throttle/brake applied to keep the engine running), so I'll have to chase that down if the rain will ever stop.
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So... the head gasket was fixed, but I had to do some dicking around (http://kymcojones.blogspot.com/2009/05/its-wonderful-life.html) to get it back to 100%.
Then, six days later, the cam chain broke (http://kymcojones.blogspot.com/2009/05/verdict.html).
KymcoUSA is working with my dealer to process warranty claims... I'm trying to collect all the necessary paperwork to make it easy for them.
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This is not the best possible advertisement for Kymco. ???
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This is not the best possible advertisement for Kymco. ???
Well, it could turn out well, since they seem right now to be reaching out to try to process these two repairs under the warranty.
I'm sure they'll agree that these two breakdowns are not acceptable, given the mileage, service records and riding conditions... but even Honda has made some "Monday bikes," where the line workers are a bit hungover from the weekend. :)
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Well, it could turn out well, since they seem right now to be reaching out to try to process these two repairs under the warranty.
I'm sure they'll agree that these two breakdowns are not acceptable, given the mileage, service records and riding conditions... but even Honda has made some "Monday bikes," where the line workers are a bit hungover from the weekend. :)
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How has this story ended? Did they cover the cost for gasket and cam chain?
Today I have noticed a drop or two of engine oil coming out of the gasket shown on the picture (you will notice I have circled with two red ellipses where these drops were but it is not very good shown on the picture, in the upper right corner).
I have washed the scooter so it is not that visible now, but I was wondering is this the place where you have initially noticed the leak?
I have regular inspection in 1500 kms (4500 kms on it now) and then I will claim this under warranty for sure.
Pls let me know about this - thanks!
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/Ignisburns/DSC_0030.jpg)
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As far as I know, the dealer has yet to tally and process the claim.
That's not where mine was leaking, no. Mine was leaking from the lower cylinder seal, where the "jug" meets the crankcase. But that seal appears to be above the places you circled on the photo, so it's possible to have a leak there and have the oil pool in the areas you point out.
Mine mainly ended up on the ground, after hitting the centerstand. It was a disturbing amount of oil that was leaking, not just a drop or two.
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As far as I know, the dealer has yet to tally and process the claim.
That's not where mine was leaking, no. Mine was leaking from the lower cylinder seal, where the "jug" meets the crankcase. But that seal appears to be above the places you circled on the photo, so it's possible to have a leak there and have the oil pool in the areas you point out.
Mine mainly ended up on the ground, after hitting the centerstand. It was a disturbing amount of oil that was leaking, not just a drop or two.
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Thanks for the reply.
I do not care much about your dealer, I wanted to ask if you had to pay for the repair.
:)
I will keep you informed about development of my "drop-or-two-leak". :)
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Well, "pay" is an esoteric concept, in this case. No -- I've paid nothing. However, I agreed to re-do the dealer's website this spring with the understanding that I would only get paid the last 2/3rds depending on whether or not he would be able to stay in business. So, on the side of what I'm owed, there's $600; on the side of what *I* might owe... I don't yet know!
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I should also mention that I'm okay with the situation, as it stands. My dealer rocks. He and his wife are awesome, and the best supporters of the local scooter community possible. I have every expectation that we'll settle up without any hard feelings, no matter how long it takes.
I mean, geez... they loaned me a scooter while mine was in for repairs for 43 days (my only transportation). I couldn't have gotten that anywhere else, locally.
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