KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Like 50 2T => Topic started by: wassonii on May 28, 2012, 01:11:10 AM
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Prior to the piston debacle, I had switched from the stock muffler to a Tecnigas Silent Sport, upjetted to an 88 main jet, and moved from the 8.5 gram stock roller weights to 8 gram.
Since breaking in the new piston set-up, my gas mileage was around 36mpg (having added in WOT with more regularity:). My mechanic had maxxed my oil pump output, but I have, since break-in period of 1000km, adjusted that to just above factory settings. (see other thread in the Like502t section).
A suggestion had been made to switch from the Kymco-recommended BR8HSA spark plug to a BR8HS (different electrode). With this switch, gas mileage dropped to around 32-33 mpg. (of note, I had also, earlier in the break-in process, tried out an irridium BR8HIX which didn't seem to affect gas mileage much at all). I am back on the BR8HSA.
A couple of days ago, I swapped to an 85 main jet with a fresh plug to check for the mix. I will report back with an update after running a full tank of gas. It is very likely that an 82 main jet may be that to which I return, but we shall see after making a few more changes.
I changed out the stock torque/contra spring to the Jasil 15% (comparable to a 1000rpm spring) and per a suggestion from Moped Hospital upped my roller weight to just above stock (9 gram).
I know, given the feel of the ride, that the 9g is too much weight and have on hand a set each of 8g as well as 7.7g weights that I will try out to find the right mix.
Here, then, is the question (and I will likely pose this question under general discussion):
While I have access to a Milwaukee cordless impact wrench, I do not have a torque stick to moderate fastening the bolt on reassembly.
I do have a variator/clutch tool on the way from Treatland and a proper torque wrench on hand.
How do I properly use the variator tool on the Kymco variator? There are no "holes" on the external face of the variator into which to affix the tool. Do I grasp the metal teeth with the tool to hold it in place?
Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated!
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Per the link given by kabory (http://battlescooter.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=howto&action=display&thread=2663 (http://battlescooter.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=howto&action=display&thread=2663)) , I am going to assume this is correct, but the variator fins on a Kymco are plastic, yes?
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Having checked the Like 50/125 service manual, it appears that grasping the fins is the answer. Just wanted to make sure before I commit:)
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I use a nylon strap wrapped around a 1/2" drive extension. Just duct tape the end. Did you mention the forum at Treatland? Discount?
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I did mention the forum:) No discount yet, but I figured I'd give us a plug, thanks to your hard work!
My scooter has sputtered at WOT twice now with the jet change. After the first time, I took apart what I had done before and made sure all was clean before returning it to whole. I didn't remove the carb fully, just undid the bolts, emptied the bowl, and changed out the jet. This go 'round it ran for about a day and a half before sputtering. Not a total loss of power, just a momentary reduction and then a little less oomph. We just got hit by a thiunderstorm, but I think I will return to the 88 and see what gives. It may be that the engine wants the extra fuel with the Tecnigas. Regardless, I know that I will need to lessen the weight in the roller.
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I would imagine you would wind up bigger on the main. 85 sounds too small. The Silent pro... Is that similar design to OEM? It just may need less jetting. It all depends on the pipe.
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Pretty sure the 85 was indeed too small. On checking the plug, there was some color to it, but the insulation was very white. Changed it to an 88, but now I can't get it to start.
When I took the bowl off the last time, it took awhile, but started. This afternoon, after switching back to the 88, I tried kicking and electric starting (with throttle) in a similar combination to what I did Saturday (even holding the airbox tube closed to "force" the gas), but nada. The electric starter finally stopped. I took the battery to Advance to check the charge and it is low, so I got a trickle charger to which the battery is currently hooked up.
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Try sucking/blowing thru the Vacuum line. Sometimes the petcock will stick.
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Will do at daybreak. Is that the black tube that rests beside the carb or do I need to disconnect from somewhere?
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It will be the thiner bottom hose coming from the fuel petcock. This allows the fuel to flow when running, and shuts it off when the engine is stopped. They do stick sometimes.
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Excellent. Thank you. I just needed confirmation for what I was seeing in the service manual.
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On the plus-side, compression is good at 150:)
When I pulled the vac line off the manifold and sucked, there was no give (or when I blew, for that matter). It was just at dawn, so I couldn't see if any fuel was bubbling in the filter, but it felt as though sucking on a straw with a finger over the other end
I don't have time now to check it further, as I am about to go into an 11 hour workday, but there will still be some daylight afterward (hopefully) for me to play a little.
Trickle charging the battery helped, as the starter definitely isn't shot.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!
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You will need to remove the fuel line at the carb to induce flow. You will also hear the petcock open/close when you suck/blow. They do get stuck.
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Well, I get an "A" for effort:) It was raining when I got back a little bit ago, so I will tackle the hoses tomorrow. What would the symptoms be if I flood the thing?
Thanks for your patience. I'll report back tomorrow.
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What would the symptoms be if I flood the thing?
It won't start. You have nothing to loose.
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The fuel pump appears to work. After pulling the lines and sucking through the vacuum hose, fuel flowed and ceased to flow when I stopped sucking. Unfortunately, the carb is still not getting any gas. I pulled the bowl to make sure that I hadn't mussed anything up on reassembly and it had none in it. The starter won't engage anymore, so I shall likely have to trickle charge the battery again. I can't afford to take it to a mechanic, so I shall have to figure it out myself. (He charged me 60 bucks to just to change out the spring and weights and I had to help with the spring) I will keep combing the forums for ideas. (I'm not even worrying about checking for spark cuz if there ain't no fuel, the best spark on the planet wouldn't matter:)
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Gotcha! The only reason fuel will not fill the bowl is fuel cannot get into the nipple or the needle. I have seen fuel hoses delaminate, and swell inside till they do not allow fuel to flow fast enough. Or the nipple on the carb may be clogged with some debris/rubber. The last thing is the float level/needle. The float should sit parallel to the carb base when inverted. If it is sticking up in the air it is mis adjusted.
Setting Carb Floats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHnOnfNwLyQ#ws)
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Right on! I've been doing some research and know I will at the very least have to take the carb off to check the floats, et al. It is unfortunately likely that I knocked something this last time. What would you recommend to clamp off the hoses for such an operation?
And Thank You! Little by little, I am becoming more confident with my scooter, thanks in large part to you!
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I usually squeeze down my hose with needle nose vice grips. Just snug will do it.
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Thank you again. I will be assembling cleaner and calipers, et al tomorrow and will either undertake this tomorrow afternoon or Saturday. Fingers crossed!
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Got em crossed for you Wass.
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It is heavily misting (of course just after I get the bucket out:)
I have a question. For this tiny little carb, there is no throttle mechanism on the side. It appears as though the throttle connects directly to the needle.
http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/KE10AA_LIKE_(2009)/E09_-_Carburetor/04%7c%7e38%7c%7e0005/04%7c%7e38%7c%7e0019 (http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/KE10AA_LIKE_(2009)/E09_-_Carburetor/04%7c%7e38%7c%7e0005/04%7c%7e38%7c%7e0019)
As soon as the mists leave I will crack it all open and get started, but I am under the presumption that the diaphragm/needle set up will have to remain with the damned scooter.
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Just heard back from Aeromyst. Apparently, the throttle does indeed attach at the "cap" of the carb and this model does not have a diaphragm. Oh, the things we learn. Skies are clearing...soon to embark toward a land of discovery.
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So, I pulled the carb apart. When I got to it, the "throttle cap" at the top was actually loose. Too, the floats were indeed a little off. The inside wasn't really dirty, but I went ahead and cleaned it anyway, inspecting the o-rings and gasket to make sure all was well. I put it back together after adjusting the floats (took a minute to line back up the needle& throttle valve, but I took my time and got it back together and the correct hoses on their stems.
I had to wait for the battery to finish charging, so just a bit ago I installed the battery and tried it out. The starter was trying, but no ignition. Kickstarting doesn't do it, either.
I am, though, incredibly grateful for your help and advice in this, as I now have another notch in my belt of scooter ownership.
I now need to figure out what the heck is going on. The insulator gasket is aligned correctly up/down. It's o-ring is against the manifold and the carburetor o-ring against the insulator.
Harumph:)
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Kill switch... Test for spark before pulling out your hair.
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Thanks man. Kill switch definitely was disengaged. There is spark (I tried the one that was in there as well as a freshie). I don't know the life span of the clocks on these, but for what it's worth, a couple of weeks agao, the LED started to fade away and no longer comes on. Today was the second time I had to trickle charge the battery in the last week as the starter does drain it (since it's not running and can't charge itself). And for good measure, I checked the compression again. It is still at 150. Too, of note, the plug does have some wet to it after this go 'round, whereas it was dry previously.
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There may be too much fuel for it to ignite. Maybe... Try turning the idle mix screw to 2 turns out from all the way in.
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Will do. I ended up taking that rubber shroud off of the carburetor (and the hose to the engine cowling). That crap was getting in the way and seeing as how we are in FL, I don't fear cold temps affecting it and the gas. I'll play with it in the morning and will report back. Hope you've had a good day, kind sir!
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Aw shucks...
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And so the story goes....
but my scooter doesn't;(
The "wet" was a tease. That bowl was dry. Probably residual being kicked up from all the kickstarting:) I took the carb apart (again, though this time was quicker) to make sure that everything was seated correctly (which it appears to be). After looking at some info online I wanted to doublecheck the seating of the needle and it's collar (under the main). All appears to be as it should.
The air/fuel screw has one of those lovely 'plugs' over it on the stock carb (thank you Kymco), so the only available adjustment is for idle rpm (which doesn't matter at this juncture). For the record, it was exactly 2 1/8 turns out (and has been returned to that).
I am stumped and if I can't figure this out, I will have to bite the bullet and walk it the 4 or so miles to the mechanic on Tuesday, where I will be overcharged. Joy.
On the plus side, I don't have to be at work until Wednesday and so have a couple of days to try to figure it out.
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The latest anomaly is that, per Josh's suggestion, I opened the drain screw at the bottom of the carb to check for gas coming into the carb, but there was none.
When I pulled the gas hose to check for vacuum, the gas flowed.
Strange.
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The continuing stoooory of a quack who's gone to the dogs....
In lieu of starter fluid, I used an eyedropper to put some BelRay and petrol into the chamber via the spark-plug hole. For a moment, the engine fired, but I didn't put enough down there for the whole system to catch. More research goes on....
(I keep an eyedropper with my bottle of 2 stroke for those moments when I get distracted and overfill the oil:)
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I would get all NEW fuel lines. Use the Marine grade as they are Eth. proof. It sounds like the nipple at the carb is clogged. Try using a can of Brake Clean to blow it out from the inside. (float needle seat)
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I may well try that.
I just sent Josh pictures of the carb without its' bowl so he could see the insides. While I was there, I sucked through the vacuum line with the carb attached to see if gas would be pulled through the float valve. The gas did flow through the float valve.
Thank you, sir, I hope it has been a restful day!
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A view fromunda the bucket
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Keihin PB16 without the bowl
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Keihin PB16 without the bowl in 'position'
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That is nice, and clean. It has to be a blockage issue.
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Keihin PB16 view of inlet with needle seated
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When you suck on the vacuum line with no bowl the fuel flows?
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View of Keihin PB16 inside the bowl, gasket attached
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Side of scoot, airbox on (without hose), carb attached
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Where is your vacuum line connected?
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Sorry man, had to post pics:) We do like pics here and to be honest, there isn't sh**e out there about this little carb.
Yes, there was flow when I had all of my lines hooked up, pulled the vac hose, and sucked. The spice, I mean gas, flowed from the float valve when I was inducing suction.
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The vacuum hose is attached at the manifold, just engine side of where the carb attaches. In the pic of the view from under the bucket, it's the nearest one you can see attached.
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That pict "Under the bucket" just showed me your issue... Your fuel filt. It MUST be facing up/down. The way your's is sideways will always allow air into the fuel. some will work sideways but that S9 uses more fuel than most 50cc scoots. Arrange the filter to flow up/down, and I bet that will fix it.
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I understand why you suggest that, but isn't it odd that it would only now be affecting? I will certainly give it a try. I don't think that there are any clips for it, but I'ma gonna go check right now.
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My gy6 was dying out at idle, and I found the same reason. Once the filter gets Slightly clogged it won't flow on it's side
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Right on. The "clip" Kymco has for it is a plastic band that goes around the filter and attaches to the body. I made it so that that it was angled better to reflect flow, but no mas, and now the battery is not giving enough power for the starter to engage. Back on the trickle charger it goes (3rd time this week:).
I am going to go get a milkshake to ease my weary brain.
What is good is that my wife has a scoot I have been riding in the interim (she broke her foot, so I have to take it out at least once a week to keep it fresh). It was from that tank that I pulled the fresh gas to make sure I was getting ignition in the chamber.
The downside is that it's a little Genuine Buddy that is a tad too small for my 6'6" frame, but at least it runs. (and for the record, hers has remained untouched and as such, is under warranty for the next year and a half:)
Off to Mickey D's. Be back in a bit.
The weird thing is that I am getting gas flow, it's just not getting pulled into the carbs closed system.
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Then the nipple is blocked or the float is miss adjusted. That's all their is left.
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I'll check them tomorrow (and will make sure to blow through the float needle seat). Another thing about which I have been reading, too, is pulling the fuel line off the carb and trying to kick or electric start to test the viability of the petcock. While I have tested fuel flow with removing the fuel line and sucking through the vacuum, I hadn't tried this method. What do you think?
As to new fuel line, you suggested marine-grade. Quarter inch? I'll check into a new filter while I'm at it.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help in this. Thank you!
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The help is a non issue Wass. You're welcome. The fuel line is smaller than 1/4" I am using quarter but it is too big, and has to be clamped on the carb end. I think it is a great idea to spin it over to test flow.
My petcock went bad three years ago, and jammed open. So I just got rid of the vacuum line. When I first built the Ruima set I thought I ran out of gas, and found the petcock to be working again. I plan to install a manual petcock to protect this build.
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WooHoo!!!!!!!
This morning, I did try unplugging the fuel and kickstarting, which yielded fuel flow. I took the carb off in order to clean it again, this time focusing primarily on the fuel nipple, but also to give it a good once over again. I also went and got a multi-meter to test the auto choke.
I reassembled according to what I believed was Kymco specs on the float of 17mm, but it was looked weird to me (I had put it in before using this spec, but this time I had seen more images and almost every one I had been looking at indicated that the float bottom (top when it's upside-down) should be parallel to the bowl rim, which it wasn't. Of note, too, I apparently hadn't taken careful enough note of how the float needle positioned on it's tang. At any rate I reassembled and put the carb on, but it wouldn't allow gas. I walked away and calmed down for a sec and decided to give it one more go, but this time eschewing the "spec" I had read and went with parallel/level to the bowl rim and this time I reversed how I had been putting on the float needle (I have a pic of the incorrect setup, though it's not close enough to notice what is happening with the float needle.) On the needle, the piece of wire from which it hangs on the tang has to small "loops". I had been facing these toward the center of the bowl, but the correct configuration is toward the float pin.
Several kicks after reinstalling it, I heard a rumble. Several more kicks and thar she blew!
I've been running down the tank/charging the battery naturally and I decided to try to go back to the 7.7g weights, but I'll be damned if I can't break the nut. Using the universal holder is weird since the fan face facing out on the variator is plastic and I do not want to break a blade, holding by the teeth kept slipping, so I stopped. A Milwaukee impact wrench won't even break it (I bummed one from the scene shop). That, tho, is the least of my concerns at the moment. For now, I ride and listen to what the scoot tells me and have to say thank you Zombie (and Aeromyst) for holding my hand through this.
Wheww!!!
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These images show the Keihin PB16 upside down with its' bowl off. The float height is INCORRECT, but in one of the images, the caliper reading shows approximately 17mm, which is what was given as Kymco spec in the Like 50/125 manual found here on the forum and elsewhere online.
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At least you figured it out.
There is one way I use to get the OEM var nut off. Remove the spark plug, and insert about 1 foot of 1/4" nylon rope into the jug. This will jam the piston, and allow you to impact the nut off. It is a standard left loose nut. NO reverse threads on the scooter.
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Well, I wouldn't have figured it out without some apt coaching!
The rope is a great idea and saves wear on the piston head (versus one of thos blt-holders) I should imagine.
RacingPlanet has one of those toothed holders for Kymco. It is shallower than the ZTR so may work.
I'll figure it out. Gonna have to get a stronger impact to try th rope, though.
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There are a zillion ways to jam the works... Utube has a ton of ideas. The link is just to get you on one of the utube pages that will show all kinds of tips.
Variator Nut Removal Tips.MP4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ZVCxYK2M8#ws)
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Sweet! Thank you. I have some saved, but definitely the more the merrier.
I need to get a bigger socket wrench with an extension so I can get better leverage. I was trying to do it w/an open-end wrench (and a small wrench wedged between the teeth and case), but slipped and the case took a bite of my hand. I ended up going down to the mech (tools in tow) and asking them to pop the nut when I got the case off. They took pity on the injured (and shared their own stories) and swapped me out free of charge. I do, though, need to have access to tools so I can do it solo.
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I have several buddies here that swap out labor for each other. Small towns are good in a few ways.
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I'll second that!
And so, too, are forums like this:)
With the understanding that I will eventually get a new variator (oh multivar, I hear you calling...), I think I really need to first get a better carb on this thing. I may or may not eventually go to a bbk, but that will be several thousand kilometers in my future. While the 19 will suit that need, I have been kind of thinking a 17.5 will suit my immediate needs and give a little better life to my little 50cc. At racingplanet, they show that dellorto makes one http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-dellorto-175mm-main-p-598-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-dellorto-175mm-main-p-598-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad) and as usual, I have to do my research before committing (and save some shekels). When this eventually happens, is the autochoke on on my machine plug 'n play, or would I need to get another? Just thinking out loud...
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I would go for the 19 Delorto. It is fine for now, and great later. I bought mine with a manual choke, and cable kit. It eliminates all the hassle of guessing if the "auto" part is working. Are you in the US Wass? I can work it out to get the carb to you at cost thru Racing Planet. Post up a link to the one you want, and I'll pm you the price. Pay me when you get it deal.
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Right now, I am looking to having the least amount of money outflow with boosting what I have. I do not fear a manual choke, nor do I fear adding a connection to the manifold, but those are extra costs. I do have a question, though, about reeds. Is it necessary to upgrade those with just a carb increase, or is that really more of a concern for increasing the whole with a bbk?
Like I wrote, I am still in the r&d phase of this, so all options are open. I do feel that after a carb, a multivar would be the next step, but that will have to wait until after the little wass is born, so future upgrading past a carb won't be more until around xmas-time:)
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Reed selection very much depends on the overall engine. Thin reeds give quicker throttle response, and thicker are meant for wot drag bikes. You can get a good set of carbon reeds in .o35" that will work great for about 50 bucks. They do not make a huge difference but are much safer for the engine than the stainless steel OEM reeds. I always buy sheet stock, and cut my own. I replace them about twice a year.
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As always I appreciate the knowledge!
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I haven't totally tossed out the idea of a 17.5, but have some questions on the 19 install. I am looking at the Dellorto PHBG
For manual choke: I am contemplating either a lever or the twist rather than cable and wonder if you or anyone has any thoughts either way. (RP has the twist and Treatland has the lever)
For carb's connection to the manifold: RacingPlanet indicates that both the TVT and Malossi kits will be needed for fitment. I am wondering if getting the Malossi kit from RP and the 'rubber mount' from Treatland will be effective. I am under the assumption that the Malossi has a gasket and fasteners and it will require more investigation on my part to discover if this is true or not.
Regarding the manifold: The vacuum nipple would become moot, as the carb has one. Would I need to plug the existant nipple or replace the manifold?
When all is said and done, what other means of attachment is there for this carb, or is it just affixed with the rubber mount? I can't quite tell if it attaches into the intake elsewise.
Links for some of what I have (poorly) tried to describe:
PHBG 19:http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-stage6-mkii-dellorto-phbg-19mm-p-1520-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-stage6-mkii-dellorto-phbg-19mm-p-1520-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
Malossi adaptor: http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-adapter-malossi-kymco-sf10-p-368-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-adapter-malossi-kymco-sf10-p-368-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
TVT adaptor: http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-mounting-dellorto-carburetor-plug-mounting-p-448-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-mounting-dellorto-carburetor-plug-mounting-p-448-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
manual choke (non-cable): http://www.racingplanetusa.com/manual-choke-dellorto-phbg-carburetor-p-25333-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/manual-choke-dellorto-phbg-carburetor-p-25333-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
lever choke: https://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-fancy-lever-choke-p/dellorto-phbg-fancy-lever.htm (https://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-fancy-lever-choke-p/dellorto-phbg-fancy-lever.htm)
rubber mount: https://www.treatland.tv/super-heavy-duty-rubber-mount-p/replay-phbg-rubber-mount.htm (https://www.treatland.tv/super-heavy-duty-rubber-mount-p/replay-phbg-rubber-mount.htm)
Lotsa questions while I am still in the r&d. Thanks for any help!
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As far as everything you have found it is all right. I never liked the lever style chokes because the tend to turn them selves "on" at the worst times. Make up a hit list... You have to remember the intake side as well. It will be significantly larger as well. There are lots of adapter pipes for that as well.
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I can't help but wonder if I shouldn't get a multivar first and then approach a new carb. I really think the 19 is where I will be going, even though a BBK is going to end up being 1-2 years off. If you were in my shoes, would that be a better first choice?
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CVT! Get a 1500 contra spring, and a Jasil variator. The reason I say Jasil is they don't come with a spring. The Malossi does but it is the white OEM version, and really does no good. Oem roller weight should work fine with a 1500 spring. A bit more revs, and = or better top end.
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I don't suppose you have an account with MHR, do you? (Unless you know of another Jasil supplier?)
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Too, Polini offers a vari w/out the spring. I am looking at clutch springs as well.
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Jasil sv1 kit has been ordered. Man, Steve is such a good guy! No discount, but so much knowledge!
Pics when it gets here.
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Good call. Did you get the springs too?
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I've already got a 1000 contra spring installed, but I did order some 1500 clutch springs. It should all hit Monday.
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Does anyone know where to buy the stock red color of the 2012 like 50cc 2t scooter ? Tried dealer today and it was as though I was speaking Chinese. I figured I would try this site as some of the posters seem very knowable.
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Do you mean touch up paint?
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I would like to buy a pint. If there was a paint formula available I could buy it in my local area at an automotive paint shop...Thanks for not beating me up on my spelling I ment to post Knowledgable posters on this site. :)
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..wheres th paint, z?
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Any good auto paint supplier can match some to a panel for you. There are paint codes on the forum somewhere too. Try searching paint codes.
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Here'smy plan:
Since it finally stopped raining (Zombie, I hope you didn't float away) I can get my new vari installed. What I currently have in the clutch are stock fly springs and 1000 (15%) Torque spring. OEM vari has 7.7g rollers. I'll install the Jasil/TR vari tomorrow with either 7.5 or 8g rollers and I may or may not throw in 1500 flys on the clutch (just to see how the variator upgrade alone feels I may wait a few days). I do think it very likely that I will follow the Zombie expertise and go with 1500 torque spring, but for now I will get to know the new part.
I have red loctite. Should I use blue instead? I shall probably be in and out of there a few times over the next few days. (Too I've a new-ish kevlar belt ( only a few km on it that I put there) that will be going in).
Joe Joe - as far as touch-up paint goes, Kymco only offers little bottles for the consumer. I doubt a dealer has access to volume of what you seek. You could write Kymco, but Zombie's suggestion may be quicker and is more likely to better match your color. Some of Kymco's touch-up paints, from what I have seen, are just a hair off.
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Don't use the red lok tite. You need heat to undo that one. Try to find a small tube of blue at the hardware store.
Everything else sounds like a fair plan. Try each piece.
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Since it finally stopped raining (Zombie, I hope you didn't float away)
Oh, he loves to float and dive....
(http://www.best-horror-movies.com/image-files/zombie-lake-under-water-small.jpg)
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Mostly just kinda floating...
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On my way to get some. Thank you! We got some floaters...
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Howdy. A couple of points of interest:
The variator holding tool offered by racing planet is not entirely compatible with the Like 50 2t. It is not long enough for 2 attachment points. Great for taking off the nut, not so much for putting the nut back on. I think I have the nut on tightly enough, but I am going to go to my local shop to see if they will be kind enough to double check.
Figuring out the best means of using the clutch holding tool took some trial and error, but got it worked out. What sucks now is that the outer nut on my clutch is stripped. I am fairly certain that the new guy at the shop slightly over-tightened it when we put the stiffer contra spring on and when I was returning it a little bit ago, it got to almost at proper torque and then started free-spinning.
I don't know if I am safe to ride now or what. I have research to do.
I am hoping that it will be okay until I can get a replacement, but I need some advice.
That being said, I started the engine with the cover off and everything stayed in place. That, though, is no indication of what will happen under load and several thousand rpm.
The new vari, though, fits well. I did get to clean out the case, remove some glaze from the clutch pad, and clean out the clutch bell. The oil filter wrench I have is not large enough to fit the clutch, so I will need to get a strap or some such.
Right now, though, I have to figure out my nuts situation (don't we all:)
Oh yes, I almost forgot, I tried using a small wrench to hold the outer face of the variator to make sure I was tight enough, but it started chewing into the case and into the wrenches themselves. Eventually I will need to get an impact of some nature, I am certain.
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Holy crap I am feeling the love of the universe.
Josh, being the sound man of knowledge he is, told me not to ride it (which, of course, I hadn't, but still) and to doublecheck.
I was waiting for the loctite to kind of "set"...it is the nut and not the shaft WooHoo!
I am gonna find a replacement (after I figure out the threading)
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After getting a couple of nuts (1.25 and 1.5 pitch) I discovered that it is a 1.0 pitch, so went and got that one. Now, while the threading on the shaft is intact, it appears that a couple of threads in from the end of the shaft had gotten 'pinched' (as opposed to 'crushed' or 'stripped'), so I carefully threaded theough that section and got the nut to spec (with some blue Loctite). I'm waiting a few minutes for the Loctite to set and will give it a test run up the street and then take a look in the case.
I have ordered the Kymco nuts for clutch bell and variator from Stadium since my dealer had already placed their parts order for the week. For now, though, all should be well.
More in a bit...
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Oh what a horrible grinding sound greeted my ears when I tried to crank it this time. Bear in mind that earlier, prior to replacing the stripped nut, I was able to crank it on the stand without any problem. In the interim, I have replaced the stripped nut and made the attempt to tighten the vari nut further (without success) with wedged box-end wrench. Tomorrow I shall get to take it all apart and see what is amiss. Joy.
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I didn't check outright, but I believe the new boss is a tad longer than the original. (gauging by how the new one fit in the packaging versus the old one)
When I was ablt to start, I did it without the cover on. The grinding discovery came with the cover on and was somewhat replicated with the cover off, too, afterward.
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So, something is amiss.
What I discovered this morning was that the ramp plate was stuck on the shaft. I don't have digi calipers, so I can't give an exact amount, but the inner diameter of the new variator's ramp plate was a 'hair' smaller than the OEM (about the thickness of paint) and it was not turning on the shaft. I scraped off the paint and just a hair more so that it wouldn't bind on the shaft and reassembled everything. For the record, the new boss iseffectively exactly the same length as the OEM.
New development, though. It sounds as though the starter bendix is not disengaging (yes, the washer is there. That is one of the things I definitely make certain is in place when returning the cover). There is a grinding (for lack of a better word) sound and the kickstarter shaft moves when I start the engine.
Thoughts?
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What I think is happening (I have no verification of this, but given the sound when the case is fully bolted on and the travel of the kickstart lever) is that the new vari may have a slightly thicker profile and has caused the outer face to protrude just enough to rub against the kickstart gearing. I don't have time just now for further investigation, but between the bendix possibility and the newest proposal, those are my thoughts.
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Loads of events there... Does the grinding noise stop once the engine is running? Can you see any thing that has made un wanted contact inside?
The Ramp plate must Not spin when it is installed. It spins with the crank. So the tighter it fits the crank the better. It may just not be seating all the way to the base of the crank holding the Var too far into the case. Try your old ramp to be sure.
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The new ramp plate now has the same clearance as the old one. I did double check by sight and by measurement with my pocket caliper. When I took it apart this morning, I couldn't even get the ramp plate off of the shaft. At least now, I can move it on and off the shaft.
I believe the sound that I incurred yesterday was an improperly seated bendix. What is occurring as of this morning is that the noise is not stopping once the engine engages. The only areas where I can tell that there may be unwanted contact are some rub areas on some of the fan blades and potentially on the ends of the teeth of the kickstart gear, cover side. I have not measured properly the old and new bosses, going instead by feel (which I wish I had measured earlier). The Jasil boss my be a fraction of a millimeter longer, given its' tapered ends.
We just got back from getting an ultrasound about an hour away, else I would have gotten it apart again for measurements.
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The fan can hit the starter spring retainers or the drive face can hit the kick start gear if the cvt cover gasket is missing. Also using a longer boss for more travel can require a second cover gasket. This may be the case with yours.
I had a similar issue when experimenting with longer bosses. I needed 2 cvt cover gaskets.
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So, I just got back inside.
The Jasil boss is 39mm where the OEM is 38mm. That coupled with a slightly taller ramp plate means that yes, the fan (and likely the starter gear on the fixed plate) were catching the gear in the cover.
I have swapped back to the stock vari and it now runs.
I think it's more than just one extra gasket cover. If I had to guess, it's probably 1-2+ millimeters worth of extra.
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You could use up to 3 gaskets but any bigger will need longer bolts. It depends on how much better the different set up is. If the belt sits loosely in the drive boss at rest you can cut back the boss length to 37mm safely. From there you could shim it to get the most from the var.
Just saying...It's all not bolt on.
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I am unsure at this point what my next step will be.
I know I need to pull the cover tomorrow as when I had runn the scoot about half a mile, it stopped accelerating beyond idle in spurts (I was almost back home though, thankfully). I didn't seat the belt as well as I should have on reassembly and too, my torque wrench died as I was tightening the vari nut, though it had clicked to indicate marked torque before dying.
As for shimming the cover, we shall see. I can't do anything monetarily for at least a week or so, so I will get by on the old one for now.
I could pull the kick, but that'll be a bitch to put back when I find another solution, so we shall see.
I've got that kevlar belt in now, but would rather have it as back-up and use a fresh Kymco belt. The one I had in there was at 17 so I may swap them out for now.
Need to eat, more reportage later.
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I will contemplate cutting the boss. I have access to a portaband.
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Scribe it carefully. It Has to be square.
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I've written to see if Josh can lathe/machine it and if not, then I will take it to a machine shop. I'm good, but accuracy is the most important aspect of this!
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It's good that you have Josh as an asset. He's a huge help.
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Amen to that. He's been crazy busy, which is why I went local with the machining, but between you and he and some of the other kind folks on this list, I just might learn a few things. (and yes, modding is like frickin potato chips. :D
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My next potato chip:
My jury is still out as to which carb I shall end up getting, but I am certain it will be a Dellorto.
With that in mind (and since I can't afford to get everything at once), I think I am going to go ahead and order the larger manifold and gaskets made for this engine, available at Racing Planet -
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
and an insulator spacer -
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-intake-manifold-insulator-spacer-with-oring-p-2280-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-intake-manifold-insulator-spacer-with-oring-p-2280-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
Regardless of 17.5 or 19, either way the point is moot with the smaller diameter intake. If I go with the 19, more parts will still be necessary.
Here's a question, though, what are the thoughts on what the stock carb will do with a larger intake?
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My "gut" feeling is about 20% better flow. Maybe 1 hp or so. The real gain will be at high rpm where it needs more fuel/flow. I've seen a few where the flanges were cut off the OEM intake, and re welded to an aluminum pipe to get the same result. It may help to price that option as well.
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Right on. Thanks for the thoughts. I'm kind of open to all options just now.