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Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: OregonDad on April 27, 2012, 09:02:04 PM

Title: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: OregonDad on April 27, 2012, 09:02:04 PM
How large of a gap do I set on a NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug for a 2008 Agility 50?
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: sentinex on April 27, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
You don't, iridium spark plugs do not require setting the gap, just install as is.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: wordslinger on April 28, 2012, 01:54:18 AM
...really??

...anybody verify that?


             ???
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: Vivo on April 28, 2012, 02:10:17 AM
Maybe what was meant was Iridium plugs come pre-set and pre-gapped and doesn't need setting or re-gapping especially on stock engines. But it won't hurt if you check the gap of newly bought plugs. There might be some bad ones that come out the factory.   However, when modifying an high performance engine, you may re-gap depending on your engine's needs.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: wordslinger on April 28, 2012, 02:18:55 AM
..in my experience, i have not seen significant performance increase with iridium, an any 4t i tried them in, but then, i've only tried a cpl different heat ranges with my setups...

..always been able to get real good performance without them, i reckon.,...
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: juice on April 28, 2012, 03:24:54 AM
The fine wire electrodes are VERY easily damaged , it is not recommended to gap them . I have even been told thay if you try to gap them they will be ruined . Good luck .
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: wordslinger on April 28, 2012, 03:27:29 AM
The fine wire electrodes are VERY easily damaged


....makes sense.....
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 28, 2012, 04:09:34 AM
I do know they recommend no gapping. BUT... If it is banged in shipping they are set to .7mm or .028". I have opened standard plugs to 3/16" using 60,000 volt coils so it is relative. You should Always use a brass feeler gauge when setting Iridium plugs as the wire type or the Stainless type can bend the fine tip.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: wordslinger on April 28, 2012, 04:12:48 AM
should Always use a brass feeler gauge when setting Iridium plugs as the wire type or the Stainless type can bend the fine tip.

..makes sense......
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: sentinex on April 28, 2012, 04:57:04 AM
Maybe what was meant was Iridium plugs come pre-set and pre-gapped and doesn't need setting or re-gapping especially on stock engines. But it won't hurt if you check the gap of newly bought plugs. There might be some bad ones that come out the factory.   However, when modifying an high performance engine, you may re-gap depending on your engine's needs.

Correct.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: Vivo on April 28, 2012, 05:29:49 AM
..in my experience, i have not seen significant performance increase with iridium, an any 4t i tried them in, but then, i've only tried a cpl different heat ranges with my setups...

..always been able to get real good performance without them, i reckon.,...

copper = lasts long
platinum = lasts longer
iridium = lasts even longer

So, the better the metal, the longer it lasts. Performance are the same.  ;)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: juice on April 28, 2012, 01:37:41 PM
Performance is also improved . bikeadvice.in/iridium-spark-plugs/ .
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on April 28, 2012, 02:41:06 PM
If its not damaged in shipping, i wouln't consider gabbing it, as iridium is very durable and will last so long, that buying a new one wont kill your purse, as they last 3 times as long, but only costs the double. ;)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: blue on April 28, 2012, 07:26:02 PM
I recap all my plugs ha never know. .7 to .8mm  sometimes .71/2
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: OregonDad on April 28, 2012, 09:10:51 PM
Performance is also improved . bikeadvice.in/iridium-spark-plugs/ .

According to that article I should also get a high energy ignition coil/wire/plug cap to improve starting, acceleration, and fuel mileage.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: blue on April 28, 2012, 09:19:07 PM
Dont always trust in what you read.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 29, 2012, 03:35:05 AM
According to that article I should also get a high energy ignition coil/wire/plug cap to improve starting, acceleration, and fuel mileage.
That is the very first thing you should do. I see it as a "given". You have to have at least 35,000 volts to get complete combustion. Most if not all OEM 50cc coils are 6,000v. Get one of the orange "performance" coils on ebay, or partsforscooters. You will get better performance /mileage. I am setting up an MSD battery driven CDI, and an Accel coil made for a 2012 jeep. That will be a stable 60,000 volts from start up to 16,000 rpm. Fire is the trigger.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on April 29, 2012, 01:05:25 PM
That is the very first thing you should do. I see it as a "given". You have to have at least 35,000 volts to get complete combustion. Most if not all OEM 50cc coils are 6,000v. Get one of the orange "performance" coils on ebay, or partsforscooters. You will get better performance /mileage. I am setting up an MSD battery driven CDI, and an Accel coil made for a 2012 jeep. That will be a stable 60,000 volts from start up to 16,000 rpm. Fire is the trigger.

As far as i was told, the standart kymco coil was 16000 volts.
Naraku is one of the very experienced and trusted producents of tuning parts for 4-stroke GY6 engines, and their orange performance coil (i wonder why all of them are orange, no matter who makes them) are 31000 volts, so i would suspect, that no higher than that would be necersary. :)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 29, 2012, 07:52:33 PM
"As far as i was told, the standart kymco coil was 16000 volts."
 Forgot the one (1) 16,000v. Still half the power, and MUCH weaker spark under compression. You want the spark to jump at LEAST 1/4" with the plug outside the engine.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on April 29, 2012, 08:13:03 PM
"As far as i was told, the standart kymco coil was 16000 volts."
 Forgot the one (1) 16,000v. Still half the power, and MUCH weaker spark under compression. You want the spark to jump at LEAST 1/4" with the plug outside the engine.

How much is that?
A quarter inch? :)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 29, 2012, 08:18:22 PM
One quarter inch. http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Automotive/Spark_Testers/THE404.htm (http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Automotive/Spark_Testers/THE404.htm)  This is the tester I use to trouble shoot. If I cannot get a 1/4" gap to jump I KNOW it will be an Ign related running problem.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on April 29, 2012, 08:44:07 PM
One quarter inch. http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Automotive/Spark_Testers/THE404.htm (http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Automotive/Spark_Testers/THE404.htm)  This is the tester I use to trouble shoot. If I cannot get a 1/4" gap to jump I KNOW it will be an Ign related running problem.

I ment more like, what is it in centimeters, but i found out now. :D
Its only a little more than 0,6, so any coil should be able to do that. :)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 29, 2012, 09:30:50 PM
Any Good coil. Compression increases the air resistance inside the Cyl. I don't know the formula but I do know you have to jump 1/4" to get spark under compression. Even erratic spark at 1/4" will not fire in the cylinder under compression. At 60,000 volts you don't even need an electrode. It will jump to ground.  http://compare.ebay.com/like/390407578892?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar (http://compare.ebay.com/like/390407578892?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)  That is the OEM plug for a 60,000 volt marine 2t engine (out board)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on April 29, 2012, 09:48:51 PM
Any Good coil. Compression increases the air resistance inside the Cyl. I don't know the formula but I do know you have to jump 1/4" to get spark under compression. Even erratic spark at 1/4" will not fire in the cylinder under compression. At 60,000 volts you don't even need an electrode. It will jump to ground.  http://compare.ebay.com/like/390407578892?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar (http://compare.ebay.com/like/390407578892?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)  That is the OEM plug for a 60,000 volt marine 2t engine (out board)

Awesome! I didn't know that ;)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: wordslinger on April 30, 2012, 12:52:52 AM
You want the spark to jump at LEAST 1/4" with the plug outside the engine.

..wowww....

      :o
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: Vivo on April 30, 2012, 01:27:43 AM
Now...do you need iridium?
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: juice on April 30, 2012, 01:55:38 AM
Nobody NEEDS iridium . It's more a question of do you want to pay the extra couple of dollars for the improved performance , easier starting , and longevity .
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: Vivo on April 30, 2012, 01:59:53 AM
Nobody NEEDS iridium . It's more a question of do you want to pay the extra couple of dollars for the improved performance , easier starting , and longevity .
Right!
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 30, 2012, 04:19:05 AM
I think it was put up at 0.6mm before but 1/4"=6.35mm.
I used a 125 gy6 stator, and This cdi/coil. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=160781981964&view=all&tid=744122197006 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=160781981964&view=all&tid=744122197006)
It jumps about .75" It's not powerful (I got lit up a few times setting it up) but it jumps. The kick start never fired it so never worked. One kick now, maybe two when cold. This is all on that gy6 engine...
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: OregonDad on April 30, 2012, 05:43:10 AM
Like this coil?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-PERFORMANCE-SCOOTER-IGNITION-COIL-GY6-50cc-150cc-/270544437980 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-PERFORMANCE-SCOOTER-IGNITION-COIL-GY6-50cc-150cc-/270544437980)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on April 30, 2012, 07:01:04 AM
I think it was put up at 0.6mm before but 1/4"=6.35mm.
I used a 125 gy6 stator, and This cdi/coil. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=160781981964&view=all&tid=744122197006 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=160781981964&view=all&tid=744122197006)
It jumps about .75" It's not powerful (I got lit up a few times setting it up) but it jumps. The kick start never fired it so never worked. One kick now, maybe two when cold. This is all on that gy6 engine...

I wrote 0,6 cm, not millimeters. :)

I know its really 0,635, but because of the variables like moisture and air pressure, i just rounded the number. :D
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 30, 2012, 11:44:59 PM
Metric is not my strong suit. Gotcha tho Bro!
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 30, 2012, 11:48:23 PM
Like this coil?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-PERFORMANCE-SCOOTER-IGNITION-COIL-GY6-50cc-150cc-/270544437980 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-PERFORMANCE-SCOOTER-IGNITION-COIL-GY6-50cc-150cc-/270544437980)
That's the one. My link messed up. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&&item=160781981964&view=all&tid=744122197006&guest=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&&item=160781981964&view=all&tid=744122197006&guest=1)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on April 30, 2012, 11:49:04 PM
For 10.00 more bucks you get the cdi too.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: OregonDad on May 01, 2012, 05:31:44 AM
For 10.00 more bucks you get the cdi too.

What does that CDI do that a notched OEM CDI won't?

Remember, top speed is not our goal, but power to maintain 30mph while climbing hills is.  In fact I really don't want the scoot to go over 39mph because it is only licensed for a top speed of 30mph.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on May 01, 2012, 05:59:34 AM
The link failed again. Shennagins!
Those race cdi's supposedly have different ign. timing to create more torque/hp. Some do, and some dont. I just bought it so I have a spare for ten dollars. The one I was using is simply sold on ebay as de restricted. That was 14-15 bucks. I'll get the proper links. So for 25.00 I have two working CDI's a Good coil on the scoot, and a spare coil. Just the piece of mind is worth that.
The coil /cdi won't make the scoot go 50mph but they will allow it to if you change other things.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-REV-Limit-Performance-CDI-Racing-CDI-Gy6-Based-Eng-/230392879012?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35a47c57a4&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-REV-Limit-Performance-CDI-Racing-CDI-Gy6-Based-Eng-/230392879012?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35a47c57a4&vxp=mtr)

Both US sellers, and 3-4 days delivery
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: OregonDad on May 01, 2012, 06:43:04 AM
Is this the link you were looking for?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance-racing-ignition-CDI-coil-GY6-scooter-moped-gy6-50-150-package-deal-/270913392373?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item3f13b24ef5 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance-racing-ignition-CDI-coil-GY6-scooter-moped-gy6-50-150-package-deal-/270913392373?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item3f13b24ef5)

Looks like Scrappy has the coil alone for $1 less here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coil-racing-high-performance-gy6-Baja-Tank-Sunl-Roketa-VIP-50-150-moped-/270913402577?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item3f13b276d1 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coil-racing-high-performance-gy6-Baja-Tank-Sunl-Roketa-VIP-50-150-moped-/270913402577?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item3f13b276d1)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on May 01, 2012, 05:11:57 PM
The link failed again. Shennagins!
Those race cdi's supposedly have different ign. timing to create more torque/hp. Some do, and some dont. I just bought it so I have a spare for ten dollars. The one I was using is simply sold on ebay as de restricted. That was 14-15 bucks. I'll get the proper links. So for 25.00 I have two working CDI's a Good coil on the scoot, and a spare coil. Just the piece of mind is worth that.
The coil /cdi won't make the scoot go 50mph but they will allow it to if you change other things.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-REV-Limit-Performance-CDI-Racing-CDI-Gy6-Based-Eng-/230392879012?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35a47c57a4&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-REV-Limit-Performance-CDI-Racing-CDI-Gy6-Based-Eng-/230392879012?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35a47c57a4&vxp=mtr)

Both US sellers, and 3-4 days delivery

As far as i was told, the reason why agility is such a strong 4 stroke is partly, because it from standart have advanced ignition. :)
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: wordslinger on May 01, 2012, 09:57:37 PM
..this 06 issa strong one...like my 08 was...unlike the 09...

Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on May 02, 2012, 12:05:02 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr)
That's the set I have
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: OregonDad on May 02, 2012, 01:24:42 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pins-Racing-performance-CDI-Ignition-Coil-for-Gy6-50cc-150cc-Scooter-moped-/260996452220?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc499cf7c&vxp=mtr)
That's the set I have


I got my mirrors from xuanxuanparts.  That's for he A50 not the People right?

So what does the race CDI do?  Will it help if my goal is more power for climbing hills and not maximum top speed?
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on May 02, 2012, 03:54:41 AM
Nothing for more power in a cdi. Maybe a tiny increase but the contra spring/rollers are the only help there without increasing the HP of the engine.
The issue is the relatively low hp of the engine. Gearing is the key to maintaining rpm/speed. You need to keep the torsion drive closed, and the Var open to keep lower gearing. Light rollers, and a stiffer spring do that. Didn't you install a contra spring? If you did, and it's still loosing speed up hill try the next spring stiffer. Not all springs are the same.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: OregonDad on May 02, 2012, 06:34:23 AM
Nothing for more power in a cdi. Maybe a tiny increase but the contra spring/rollers are the only help there without increasing the HP of the engine.
The issue is the relatively low hp of the engine. Gearing is the key to maintaining rpm/speed. You need to keep the torsion drive closed, and the Var open to keep lower gearing. Light rollers, and a stiffer spring do that. Didn't you install a contra spring? If you did, and it's still loosing speed up hill try the next spring stiffer. Not all springs are the same.

No the springs finally got here Monday evening. We are going to do everything at once, hopefully this weekend.  Which reminds me, I need to get some locktight for when we replace the variator nut.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: zombie on May 02, 2012, 07:03:51 AM
I hate to burst bubbles... Do 1 item at a time. Then you Know the result. It may take all day vs 2 hrs. but you will save a lot of guess work. I would install the contra spring first. That will let you know which rollers to use.
Title: Re: NGK (7544) CR7HIX Iridium IX Spark Plug gap?
Post by: baddi on May 02, 2012, 07:31:10 AM
Do as zombie said and install every piece once at a time, then put the scooter together and test it.
If you do several changes, without testing in between, you will end up having a hard time figuring out any problems that you might experience after.