KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 8 => Topic started by: Pimpy1 on April 24, 2012, 07:53:34 PM
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My Super 8 2t just got an "Upgrade" to a Malossi Multivar and now my top end is 2 mph slower with the takeoff about the same. Did I buy the wrong thing.
This is what I bought.
http://www.scooterworks.com/Malossi-Variator-People-50-Cobra-Super9-P2375C586.aspx (http://www.scooterworks.com/Malossi-Variator-People-50-Cobra-Super9-P2375C586.aspx)
The rollers are the same weight as my stock weights - 9 grams. Installed complete kit with white spring and lost 2 mph. >:(
Most people claim better takeoff and a bit more top-end.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/sarahce/1050617-third_party_facepalm_super.jpg)
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Mine isn't accelerating like I expected it to either. I'm guessing the 9g weights are too much. I did get a couple MPH on top end but it takes forever to get from 30 to 40 indicated. I used to top out at 37ish.
I'm guessing because the weights are too heavy, it's taking it too long to pick up RPM. However, the better roller ratio of the Multivar gave me about a 3mph gain on the flats, it just takes longer to get there.
I've got some 6g Ninja sliders on the way. I'm hoping this will help out the acceleration (and maybe add another MPH up top).
Next for me will be a more aggressive torque spring. I didn't install the white one yet, but everything I've read tells me I want one that is just below the race spring (the 82% purple).
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Please let me know how your 6g Ninja sliders workout. It is just disheartening to spend $100 and loose 2mph. I think I should have just used the money on sliders first to check the results.
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Well, take it on some long flats and downhills and see if you actually gained a bit on top, I'd bet you did. It just takes an eternity to get there!
EDIT: where are you located?
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I live on the coast of South Carolina. I have nothing but flats. I use the same mile long stretch on a tree lined road with little wind as a test strip. I always get to 37 but after the "Upgrade" I now peak out at 35. Tried on two different days 6 times with the same results. I even backed of the adjustment of my rear brake in case it was dragging a bit.
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Nice, I took my Mustang to Mustang week at Myrtle last year.
I'll let you know how the weights work out.
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The white spring with the kit is the same as the OEM. Just new. They should have shipped with a yellow, or 6gr rollers. Swap the rollers, and it will come to life. The 9's are only good for the red spring, and a lot more power.
Maybe the shop will trade them as they Know it is a mis match. NO s8 can run 9gr.
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Thanks for the input. Do you think if I go with Dr. Pulley Sliding Weights I should get the 7g or 6g?
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The DR Pulley sliders should be similar to the Ninja sliders. With that said, you want a gram or so heavier than what you would buy in a roller. HOWEVER, the ultimate weight is going to vary from scooter to scooter and rider to rider, as weight has a huge impact on performance (obviously). Some say to try out rollers and see what weight works best before buying sliders. I went right for the sliders anyways.
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I up jetted from a 82 (stock non-restricted) to a 85 main. I gain 5mph from 35 to 40. It will cruise easy at 35/36 mph at only half throttle. Give it all it's got and it takes a mile to slowly climb to a max of 39/40. The up jet caused not ill effects throughout start to top end. ;)
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I agree w/ ill eagle. I would try Cheap/tunning rollers to find the best weight, and then go 1gr heavier with sliders if you want to try them. Either way lighter will get you some real zoom.
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I went ahead and ordered a set of 6gr dr pulley sliders. They were 19.99 with 5 shipping. they should be here by Sat. Just said what the hell and will give it a shot. Will let you guys know how it turns out. Wish me luck.
Thanks again for all the info you guys have shared.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Lowery636/intarnetz/gif1.gif)
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Where did you find them for that price?
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Where did you find them for that price?
http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-217_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights (http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-217_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights)
They usually ship items the same day and give you plenty of different shipping options.
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They are in my state so everything is next day with standard ups. Beats the cr&p out of ordering overseas.
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I did a lot to roller testing today.
All testing done with Malossi Multivar and 85 main jet with stock exhaust.
6gr Dr. Pulley sliders - Good takeoff, dead in the mids and 30 mph top speed.
7gr Dr. Pulley sliders - Good takeoff, dead in the mids and 32 mph top speed.
7gr. rollers - Good takeoff, OK in the mids and 33 mph top speed.
8.5 gr. stock rollers - OK takeoff, OK in the mids and 38 mph top speed.
9 gr. Malossi rollers - Ok takeoff, OK in the mids and 40 mph top speed.
The best overall ride and feel for me was the Malossi 9gr rollers. I was hoping to find more top speed but the scoot just will not make anymore rpms with that tall of a final drive. I can not see move up to 10gram weights going any faster.
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I also wound up at 9gr rollers but that is using the 2000 spring/torsion controller, and 14-15hp. Have you tried going back to the OEM var? And have you checked the boss length? I forget what it is supposed to be but I can measure mine tomorrow. You should not be that high on the rollers. I was running 5.5gr on the same Var. Perhaps you have the Wrong Malossi, and your boss is too long. That is the Only reason I have for now.
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the Malossi boss is the same length but a slightly smaller outer diameter, the inner is the same. The 6gr dr.p sliders did just as bad with the stock var.
The model I got was this. (51 9988)
http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/malossi-multivar-variator-kymco-50cc-2t.html (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/malossi-multivar-variator-kymco-50cc-2t.html)
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Weird, my Multivar with the 9g Malossi rollers (ones that came with the Multivar) didn't perform too well. They also started to get flat spots in about 200 miles.
I'm thinking of trying my 6g sliders in the stock variator.
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Which model var did you get. is it the same as i got(see above). the 6gr sliders were bad in my stock also but you may be different.
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Pretty sure mine is the same part number.
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Thanks, was just hoping i did not get the wrong one.
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You DID get the wrong one. Your Var is not fully closing. The correct part is Model: M 517484. The one you have is for a S9 as well as some others. The number I supplied is for the DJ/DJY, ZX and some others. That is why the rollers/spring were wrong too.
If you want I can get you the correct one for $85.00 shipped. (in the US) 2 weeks to deliver as they are not stocked in the US.
Jassil also makes a good Var for the ZX, and is 99.00 + shipping from Moped Hospital.
IF you specified to Provo scooter you needed a ZX Var. THEY F'd up. If They Insist it is correct, point them to this thread. Part #'s don't lie. NOTHING from the S9 works on the ZX. If you gave them the item number for the order maybe someone here will be able to use your S9 var. Don't continue using it or your belt will soon POP! That is why you guys are wearing flat spots too. The Var never gets to relax at full open, and the rollers are taking all the heat.
Sorry Charlie!
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You keep referring to a zx scoot. is that the same engine at my Super 8 50 2t? The (51 9988) was also recommended to me by RacingPlanet so I thought two dealers would not be wrong so I bought from the one who had it in stock.
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Same here, I even referenced the Malossi webpage...
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Same here, I even referenced the Malossi webpage...
Not sure if he has mixed up our scoot. Did you put in your white spring?
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Nope, still can't get the damn clutch apart.
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I have plenty of belt dust now where I never did with my OME Var. It makes me wonder about it.
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Yeah! My bad! I had ZX stuck in my mind as your scoots.
Malossi is trying a new surface on the vars. It is a roughed up version of the older Vars. Something about 4 micron beading built in to the face. I imagine it would scuff the belt fairly bad when new. Have either of you tried marking lines on the Var/torsion controller to verify travel? Does the belt sit tight on the boss when the cvt is open
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Will try the marker on front and back plates and post pic when i can. Thanks for all the info though.
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I did a lot to roller testing today.
All testing done with Malossi Multivar and 85 main jet with stock exhaust.
6gr Dr. Pulley sliders - Good takeoff, dead in the mids and 30 mph top speed.
7gr Dr. Pulley sliders - Good takeoff, dead in the mids and 32 mph top speed.
7gr. rollers - Good takeoff, OK in the mids and 33 mph top speed.
8.5 gr. stock rollers - OK takeoff, OK in the mids and 38 mph top speed.
9 gr. Malossi rollers - Ok takeoff, OK in the mids and 40 mph top speed.
The best overall ride and feel for me was the Malossi 9gr rollers. I was hoping to find more top speed but the scoot just will not make anymore rpms with that tall of a final drive. I can not see move up to 10gram weights going any faster.
You must modify the airbox. The original airtube to the carb is to small. I have the same Mallossi multivar(7,5g) and Naraku traffic exhaust. Bigger airtube from a Derbi Senda, 90 mainjet. Easy runs 50 mph.
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My problem must be in the stock exhaust. I have an opened up airbox (Took out hose and cut out the rest of the square section) and have tried a 90 jet and it just bogged down.
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Hmm, not looking forward to buying an exhaust right now. LOL
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My airbox..
Bigger airtube from a Derbi Senda. The original is to small for the Keihin 16. Now 90 mainjet are perfect.
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More air.. two new hole 22 mm.. ::)
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Naraku Traffic..
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Thanks so much for the pics. How much louder is the Naraku Traffic exhaust and what cost, where?
I opened up the square intake section but did not think the hose from box to carb was too small.
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http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-naraku-traffic-kymco-horizontal-p-12098-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21362&sessID=c632b7b2a12b5963bed149d9bf34ef47 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-naraku-traffic-kymco-horizontal-p-12098-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21362&sessID=c632b7b2a12b5963bed149d9bf34ef47)
The sound and the size is like the original exhaust. I have remove the bushing.
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Thanks. Looking for less restriction but not too loud. This may be the choice. I guess the heat shield has to be bought separate ?
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The exhaust system in the link is complete with the heat sheild and gasket.
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Ok, now I just don't get it. I just got through installing a Tecnigas Silent Pro exhaust on my 2011 super 8 2t. Took out both removable restrictions on the exhaust. Scoot makes much more power. Much faster to 35mph than it did before but just stops at 40mph. The same top speed as with my restricted stock pipe.
If I use 9gr rollers peak is 40mph. If 7gr it gets to 40mph a bit faster turning more rpms but still stops at 40mph like it hits a wall. There is no rev limiter on that model says Kymco. No wire to cut on CDI. Something is stopping it and I just can't figure it out.
The scoot will hit 40mph and stop whether I am in a tuck position or sitting upright. :-\
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Where does the belt sit on the rear pulley when you take off the cvt cover?
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We talked about this in the other post a bit.
Belt Stops a half inch from the top. Still think that if I am turning higher rpms with the 7 gram rollers I should get more top end. Not just top out at the same exact speed. Is it better to try a wider belt of just replace the driven pulley?
(http://i48.tinypic.com/24qr9m1.jpg)
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A wider belt will need a few shims under the Var. to compensate, and allow the belt to sit ON the boss. It will work fine if you shim it right. I would start new tho, and get the pulleys, and search for the best belt length. Too wide will prevent it from going all the way down into the rear pulleys.
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Ps... I do believe this is your whole issue.
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Too wide will prevent it from going all the way down into the rear pulleys
..ever tried measuring the distance between the driven pulleys , z ??
..i have not...yet.....
..you just opened up me another can of worms....
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..this falls in line with that spring holder cut i gotta make to be able to run the ball bearing t/d base....
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Why not invert it? I see no reason not to run it on the clutch side. I've run the malossi torsion control on the TD side with great results. Had to modify the controller tho Not the spring seat. Maybe a fibre washer under it to keep it cooler that the clutch base too.
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..ever tried measuring the distance between the driven pulleys , z ??
Not with a tape but I had 4 belts, and took the contra/rollers out to find the belt that sat right everywhere. The Malosi 1153 is the one that works with the current set up. The next one up I forget but it works with a 110mm var in mine. Less take off but about 4 mph top. I may use it when I run the bike for mph, and stay w/ the 1153/jasil var for weekends.
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Just ordered a new belt, hopefully that will get some of my top end back. The scoot seems to be getting slower and slower.
I went with a Gates premium in 748x18x28. Hopefully that matches up well.
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That is a good belt I used one for about a year, and swapped it. It is about 4-6mm Shorter than the Malossi 1153. BUT the Maossi is wider so the top mph is equal.