KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: Cortez on April 09, 2012, 05:55:50 PM
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Since my first oil change, I've had the light on the dash come on on 3 or 4 occasions,
mostly when the bike was sitting for a while, and I was wondering if anyone else had
this happen (explained better in the next post).
I used Shell 15W50 synthetic oil, and the bike only took 1.1 liters (the dip stick
shows full if I screw it in for the oil check, and 3/4 full if I just push it in without
the screwin' part ;)
Also, at the time when the light comes on, you can definitely hear something going
on below in the engine, like the valves are running dry.
Should I get rid of that oil or add 0.2l more which would be up to spec (1.3l at change,
1.5l at disassembly)?
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Your 1st paragraph needs more explaining...
At what RPM does the oil light come on?
Does this happen when you 1st start the engine,
or when it has been ridden easily
or ridden hard?
What do you do to get the light to go out ?
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1) At what RPM does the oil light come on?
2) Does this happen when you 1st start the engine,
or when it has been ridden easily
or ridden hard?
3) What do you do to get the light to go out ?
1) 3 out of 4 times, at lowest revs possible when riding, but I can not be sure if
it came back on after I just started the engine and took off, or if it has been on
all the time, but just after a few hundred meters I'd notice the engine noise
OR the light and then the noise.
Today, it happened after I rolled on the throttle wide open to catch a green light,
then full-on braking (ABS had some work to do) to make the turn, and after the turn
it turned on and there was that noise again.
2) I guess I just answered that one too. I ride easy 80% of the time, and after it
happened for the first time, I checked the oil level, warmed up the engine some more
and went out to the freeway and ridden at WOT for about 10 minutes at 85-90mph,
trying to vary the revs and speed a bit, the bike ran perfectly.
3) Turn the bike on/off, once or twice. One restart helped one, the other time 2 restarts,
and today I just left it run on idle (no noise on idle) for about 30-45 seconds and it went out
by itself. I did notice however that the idle was a bit high during that (2000-2100rpms) period.
Now that I'm elaborating this a bit more.. sounds like the oil pressure is too low or something
or that oil just isn't working right.. which I wouldn't expect from a Shell oil, but I must admit
that it was rather cheap for 15W50 synthetic.
I'll check the exact type.
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Here's the oil I used:
(http://www.zaslike.com/files/0ibygaowrwoy3npve9.jpg)
(http://www.zaslike.com/files/d2qjge3by26m4tu828we.jpg)
Costs about $12/1l here, which is under average for that kind of oil,
and the Motul 5100 I used in my Kawasaki was almost twice as expensive.
I wanted the Shell Advance Ultra 4 but couldn't get my hands on it for
over a month so I just got what I figured should work fine.
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If you never had this problem before you changed oil, i would check the owners manual to see what weight oil
is called for at the temperatures when you are riding. If it is cold, the 15w40 may be a bit thick... a lot of
newer engines call for 10w40, but that should not make the problem... i think.
A cheap attempt is to drain the oil and save it.
Then add regular automotive oil (no clutch slippage problem with an automatic scooter) at the weight called for in the manual
and at the amount specified . Then see what happens with your riding.
(Scooters & MCs measure the oil with the dipstick just inserted, not screwed in)
Lawnmowers (B&S engines) screw the dipstick in to measure..... I think
It could be a faulty pressure sensor. They should not be really expensive and you can change it yourself.
Scoot safely,
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The oil is too thick. With this oil it takes too long to return to the pan and starves the oil pickup and there by your oil light on sustained idles. get a proper oil of say 10-40w. I should ask too what are the temps there?
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If you never had this problem before you changed oil, i would check the owners manual to see what weight oil
is called for at the temperatures when you are riding. If it is cold, the 15w40 may be a bit thick... a lot of
newer engines call for 10w40, but that should not make the problem... i think.
(Scooters & MCs measure the oil with the dipstick just inserted, not screwed in)
Lawnmowers (B&S engines) screw the dipstick in to measure..... I think
It could be a faulty pressure sensor. They should not be really expensive and you can change it yourself.
Scoot safely,
Um, yeah, I checked with the manual before buying oil, and 15W50 should work perfectly, the manual
states that it's for temperature from -5°C to 40°C, and it's right between those two values right now.
10W40 is virtually the same, I believe from -10°C to 40°C.
Maybe I should add a bit more oil, but 3/4 on the dipstick should be more then fine.
Faulty pressure sensor sounds interesting, how would that manifest itself?
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The oil is too thick. With this oil it takes too long to return to the pan and starves the oil pickup and there by your oil light on sustained idles. get a proper oil of say 10-40w. I should ask too what are the temps there?
Nonono, no sustained idles here, the idle makes the problem go away (when it happens while riding)!
BUT, as I've said, it occurs ONLY when I ride off instantly after starting the bike up OR when I shake
it up a bit (hard acceleration then hard braking).
The 10W40 is not that thick then?
Also, does that mean that it'll get better with the temperatures rising.
I should probably add a bit more oil too.
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The oil dipstick is NOT supposed to be screwed in for level sensing. Your oil level IS low.
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The oil dipstick is NOT supposed to be screwed in for level sensing. Your oil level IS low.
It's between 3/4 and 4/5 on the dipstick, that doesn't seem low to me.
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How much oil did you put in? I just changed mine and put in 1.5 L. This is also the amount my service manual calls for.
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You used a JASO MA rated oil (see label). This oil is for motorbikes with wet clutch. For scooters, you must use a JASO MB rated oil which is a low friction oil. JASO MA oils has higher friction to prevent the wet clutch from slipping. Viscosity has nothing to do with your problem. Try using a scooter specific oil.
Also, overfilling is also bad for your engine. This will cause increased in oil pressure and may damage your engine.
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How much oil did you put in? I just changed mine and put in 1.5 L. This is also the amount my service manual calls for.
Mine was happy to take 1.6 L. I did let the old oil drain for quite a while.
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It's not the oil. 15/50 synthetic is fine. Top off the oil/add oil until you are at the full level on stick without screwing it in wile it's on the center stand, on level ground. I think your a little low on oil, and when you take off fast the oil sloshes to the back side on the engine and the sensor light comes on. I would be surprised if this did not cure it? When my sensor light came on on my X5 , I stoped and checked the level and all was fine, so I knew it was the sensor. And my light stayed on all the time. So I think your a little low on oil, and it's not the sensor. :-*
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How much oil did you put in? I just changed mine and put in 1.5 L. This is also the amount my service manual calls for.
I put in around 1.1 L.
Manual says 1.3L at oil change, 1.5L at engine disassembly.
I was looking at the dip stick, don't want to overfill it, the manual
for my Agility 125 also called for 0.8L and it was usually full at 0.6L.
I just added 0.1L more for good measure.
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You used a JASO MA rated oil (see label). This oil is for motorbikes with wet clutch. For scooters, you must use a JASO MB rated oil which is a low friction oil. JASO MA oils has higher friction to prevent the wet clutch from slipping. Viscosity has nothing to do with your problem. Try using a scooter specific oil.
I knew that I could use non-motorcycle oil, but I figured it can't do no harm, since people often do it.
I just browsed the Repsol web site and they recommend fully synthetic 5W40 specifically for the Downtown.
Also, overfilling is also bad for your engine. This will cause increased in oil pressure and may damage your engine.
Yeah, I'm aware of that, that's why I used the dip stick to check, not the manual and filled up without checking.
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It's not the oil. 15/50 synthetic is fine. Top off the oil/add oil until you are at the full level on stick without screwing it in wile it's on the center stand, on level ground.
I just figured out that the topcase makes my scoot sit on it's rear wheel, when I moved it over to
the front wheel, the level went down even more.
I think your a little low on oil, and when you take off fast the oil sloshes to the back side on the engine and the sensor light comes on. I would be surprised if this did not cure it? When my sensor light came on on my X5 , I stoped and checked the level and all was fine, so I knew it was the sensor. And my light stayed on all the time. So I think your a little low on oil, and it's not the sensor. :-*
Yeah, you're probably right, I added a bit more, checked again, will take a few rides and see if it happens again.
I'm probably around 1,15 to 1,2L now.
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Good eye to notice the rear wheel on the ground.
I hope the added oil solves the problem.
scoot safely,
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Had just 2 short low speed runs since adding more oil, so far so good!
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Now using Shell Rotella 5-40w Synthetic (use it on all motor'ed cycles).
I place the scooter on the center stand, fill it (screw cap sits on threads), then start it and let it idle a little while and re-check. I usually have to add a bit more.
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Seems like 0.1-0.15l of oil solved the issue.. we'll see.
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NO MECH HERE BUT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DID NOT FILL IT PROPERLY THE FIRST TIME. FOR ME IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MAIN. ISSUE. DO IT RIGHT.
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According to the dip stick - I did.
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I have exactly the same problem as Cortez, I also have DT300i. Did adding oil above the theoretically maximum level help? I noticed that this happens with the engine still not fully warmed up.
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I have exactly the same problem as Cortez, I also have DT300i. Did adding oil above the theoretically maximum level help? I noticed that this happens with the engine still not fully warmed up.
Check the oil level after the bike has cooled down and is on the centre stand.
Only put the dipstick in without screwing it to get an accurate level.
Use the right viscosity for your temperature range, Kymco recommends 5W-50, you can use other viscosities seen in the photo attached.
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I have exactly the same problem as Cortez, I also have DT300i. Did adding oil above the theoretically maximum level help? I noticed that this happens with the engine still not fully warmed up.
I never had the issue after that, I just added 0.1l more.