KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: jeryll on March 10, 2012, 01:52:51 AM
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Wanna start this new thread to hopefully find ways to improve the performance and fuel consumption of the 2012 model with lesser power and higher fuel consumption.
After much rave about the Downtown 300i all over the net, i decided to purchase one in August 2011.
The great fuel consumption, power and storage attracted me to this scooter.
I made an order thru the agent and was told that I'll be getting the 2012 model which is an improved model with higher full stand ground clearance, a hazard light option and a reduced in horsepower dropping from 29hp to 27hp. I was like hey it's only 2 horses how bad can it be? Boy! what a difference 2hp makes.
If it's not bad enough with horses dropped, i discovered that it also drink. I consistently get 25km/l and at times down to 22km/l. I feedback to the agent and they claimed that i was heavy handed with the throttle which wasn't the case.
Anyhow, the scooter has been giving me more headache and heartache than pleasure knowing that what I'm getting is not the same scooter as in performance like the internet or owners are claiming.
Beside the higher fuel consumption, there is the issue of vibration when moving off. I have ridden Gilera Runner FXR180, Piaggio Skipper SKR ST150 and Yamaha Majesty YP250 perviously and they all don't have such problems in my 9 years of riding.
I search around the net and found that it's a common problem regarding the judder vibration while moving off and some of the other problems.
I learned that there is an issue of juddering while accelerating but wasn't getting any until recently as the problem of 500rpm drop at 50km/h disappeared.
I am now plague with the fuel injection kinna juddering problem (feels like there is intermittent fuel delivery from the injector) making riding around the range of 22mph(35km/h) to 37mph(60km/h) very irritating and uncomfortable.
I ever exchange the LGE5 variator which came stock with my scooternfor the LEA7 one in an effort to correct the higher fuel consumption i am getting.
After fixing up and went for a test ride and this is my findings.
Initial move off is normal as LGE5, very torquey until 25mph(40km/h) (5000rpm).
From 40km/h onwards, the rpm suddenly dropped to 4000rpm (seems like there is a secondary gear kicking in).
The scooter will drag very slowly with the rpm increasing slowly also to about 90km/h(6000rpm).
At 56mph(90km/h)(6000rpm) the scooter started to breath better and started to slowly come alive.
At around 62mph(100km/h) it felt like it had more power and felt ready to go higher.
I gave it gas and the rpm shot to 6500rpm (peak torque)and the scoot came alive and felt really great as if it wanted to go even faster.
At this point it felt better than the LGE5 variator which never gave me such sensation. Well, maybe it's due to the torturing slow speed before it came actually alive. None the less, it felt better than the LGE5 and feel that it this scoot may actually prefer to travel and cruise at above 75mph(120km/h) all day as lower speed felt like it is actally suffering.
After the test, I immediately switch back to the LGE5 variator as speed below 56mph(90km/h) with the LEA7 is hell and totally not ride-able.
In the mean time am looking for the best option to consider using Dr Pulley 14g for the LEA7 to let it rev higher for the slow speed increase below 56mph(90km/h). As i do not know how will the out come of the 14g slider will be on the LEA7, i do not want to have a 14g slider lying around and for installing it on the LGE5 is way to aggressive like juanpauk discovered.
One thing for sure is the rpm difference between LGE5 and LEA7 is really big around 1000rpm and especially in the lower speed range around 44mph(70km/h). Can't remember the actual figure at lower speed but the at higher speed the difference is only 400 to 500rpm at 100km/h.
Currently at 62mph(100km/h) with LGE5 is 5900rpm
If using with LEA7 @ 62mph(100km/h) is at 5500rpm
Marginal difference at these speed but a big difference at below 60mph and the feeling of power too.
LEA7 give good feeling of power to accelerate from 60mph onwards.
If i can find the additional 5hp back to the first batch of Downtown 300i fixing the LEA7 will be the only option.
Good low speed fuel consumption and good power to overtake at higher speed.
One thing i cannot understand is between the 1 batch of Downtown 32hp and the 3rd batch of Downtown 27hp aren't they using the same engine. Isn't it possible to get the full 32 horses back with a swap a certain parts like ECU,Injector and Catalytic converter Muffler?
Cheers :)
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I consistently get 25km/l and at times down to 22km/l. I feedback to the agent and they claimed that i was heavy handed with the throttle which wasn't the case.
What is the consumption you have been expecting?
22-25 km/l (4-4.5 l/100 km) is extraordinarily low consumption for 27 hp 300 cc thumper.
My 250 cc 21 hp consumes MORE, FYI...
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Circulating around the internet is an average fuel consumption of 30km/l to 36km/l.
Yes! you heard right 36km/l is possible.
I requested my agent to consult over at the Taiwan side regarding Kymco Downtown fuel consumption and the reply indicated fuel consumption @ 27km/l which is what most are getting.
I am just not getting even 26km/l :-[
My mileage is currently @ >6000km
Just renewed at 5000km:
Redline 5W50
Oil Filter
Air Filter
CR7EIX
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Circulating around the internet is an average fuel consumption of 30km/l to 36km/l.
Yes! you heard right 36km/l is possible.
Sorry, but I have had quite a few bikes and scooters in my time.
Your scoot can do 30-36 l/km in vacuum, and if you drove it on Moon where gravity is 1/6 of Earth's gravity... using a remote control without driver on it.
Consumption you claim is on the lower level of expected range so you should be more than satisfied.
Also you should not read bs on Internet and especially not what manufacturer is claiming.
Manufacturer of my car claims 5.0/100 km extraurban. If you drive it hyper-carefully, you can squeeze through with 50 % above what they claim. +100 % in the city, easily.
I suggest to check around Internet what is average consumption of 250-300 cc bikes. It is in range between 4 and 5 l/100 km, or 20-25 km/l.
It can easily drop to 16 km/l for highway driving fully loaded two up...
So, congrats - you have a good bike and good consumption too!
p.s. I will not comment this variator story because I do not have the answers. However, with CVT, it is very difficult to achieve great take off speed, great elasticity and great top speed, if not impossible. In fact, usually, factory setup is the best compromise - at least this is my impression! :)
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Mine is a LEA7 model, and I'll just say there's something wrong with yours.
Other then the 5500 rpms at 60mph that I can confirm, mine doesn't drop to
4000 like you described and pulls very nice.
However, after 4 tanks, I've got even worse fuel consumption then you
(20km/l) but that'll get better with time.
I've spoken to a lot of local DT owners, the fuel consumption dropped
after the first oil change.
Axy - 30km/l is more then possible on Downtown and People GTi, but 25km/l is
already great/above average considering their size and power.
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Axy - 30km/l is more then possible on Downtown and People GTi, but 25km/l is
already great/above average considering their size and power.
Let me know when you reach 30 km/l under normal circumstances.
That is consumption of 125 cc/10 hp/100 kg scooter.
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Let me know when you reach 30 km/l under normal circumstances.
That is consumption of 125 cc/10 hp/100 kg scooter.
Without FI, yes, 10 years ago.
Check results people get with Like 200i and/or NewDink/Yager 200i.
Not to mention the Honda Lead 110i.
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i got a people 300 last jan. sold as a 2012 model. plate on frame says scot was made in june 2011. first 2 tanks were
72 and 68 mpg. then the map sensor failed. after getting scot back mileage has dropped to approx. 60-65 mpg.
my weight is 230 and altitude iis 4300 ft. mileage now is 1500, hoping for better mpg with more mileage. time will tell.
i'm not sure what variator i have. i got 15 gram sliders for scot , am waiting for 3000 mi. sevice to install . will report back when i know more.
p.s. my yeager 200 always got 70-75 mpg.
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Without FI, yes, 10 years ago.
Check results people get with Like 200i and/or NewDink/Yager 200i.
Not to mention the Honda Lead 110i.
Is this 20,8 km/l on your Fuelly?
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The 32 HP, is for the SuperDink and then is seems only ones in Spain. I am not sure what the differences are between it an the USA Carb versions, California emmisions, but that 10% power can be substantial. There are other threads with people experiencing micro surge. I suggest for that the CREIX7 spark plug. It shoudl reduce this and be sure to use a high grade gassoline. Now changing the plug may take a tank or two as the ECU has to map properly for detonation. I would also after the plug is in reset the trottle position and do the flood procedure.
I am very happy wih the Dr Pulley 14gr in the old style variator. Apparently Kymco realized the performance issue and now uses the new variator..........
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BTW in real world situation, 2012 Downtown can do an average of 27km/l and before july 2011 can do average of 30km/l and that is not base on company promoting Downtown but from owners like you and me giving their feedback.
If you guys that think 25km/l is good for 300cc wait till you see this 400cc Sym Maxsym. It can do an average of between 22km/l to 25km/l.
Off Topic a bit but just to show that good fuel consumption don't just apply to small scooter.
post #1042
http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/330997-SBF-MaxSym-Cafe?p=7442164&viewfull=1#post7442164 (http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/330997-SBF-MaxSym-Cafe?p=7442164&viewfull=1#post7442164)
Quote:My maxsym is 2500km now. No modification. Fuel economic is 26-23 km/L my normal speed is 100-120 at high way and 60-80 at normal road. 5k-6k RPM will give you 100-125km/h already. Top speed i ever try is 150km/h at 7k RPM ,the red zone start from 8k RPM which means still got room to increase but i dear not to try. Cruising at 130km/h is pice of cake for this baby
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And Maxsym 400 here in Singapore initially cost only about USD$600 more than Downtown.
Knowing it's potential and cheaper selling price, the agent raise another $400 more.
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BTW in real world situation, 2012 Downtown can do an average of 27km/l and before july 2011 can do average of 30km/l and that is not base on company promoting Downtown but from owners like you and me giving their feedback.
If you guys that think 25km/l is good for 300cc wait till you see this 400cc Sym Maxsym. It can do an average of between 22km/l to 25km/l.
I've seen 23km/l on a 400cc Piaggio engined Peugeot GEopolis 400 and 25km/l on a short (lively riding) trip on a Peugeot Satelis 500
(piaggio 490cc engine). Also got 25 or more km/l out of Dowtown and People 300 test bikes that I had for 2 weekends.
I got 20km/l on my DT last tank because I did a 200km trip with a 250lbs passanger and held the throttle pinned for most of the time.
Last 2 tanks before that were 10°C under freezing temps..
It'll drop by a lot after the first service/oil change and when it gets warmer,but I'll be adding the Dr Pulley sliders at the same time so
we'll see what happens.
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I've seen 23km/l on a 400cc Piaggio engined Peugeot GEopolis 400 and 25km/l on a short (lively riding) trip on a Peugeot Satelis 500
(piaggio 490cc engine). Also got 25 or more km/l out of Dowtown and People 300 test bikes that I had for 2 weekends.
I got 20km/l on my DT last tank because I did a 200km trip with a 250lbs passanger and held the throttle pinned for most of the time.
Last 2 tanks before that were 10°C under freezing temps..
It'll drop by a lot after the first service/oil change and when it gets warmer,but I'll be adding the Dr Pulley sliders at the same time so
we'll see what happens.
Imagine if it remains the same... ;)
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Imagine if it remains the same... ;)
I won't! >:(
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Warmer weather will almost always give better MPG;
1.) The engine warms up faster coming off the EFI choke equivalent.
2.) The air is not as dense to push through.
3.) Tire pressure is slightly raised.
Along with other issues too. This is seen real world all the time. Since I never really take the bike out on cold days my MPG is not affected much. My Sorento looses about 2-3 MPG on really cold days as well.
The DR Pulley sliders will cost some. If you drive HWY speeds it will cost little or even up the MPG slightly. If you do city driving it will hurt as revs are up a bit and since we have better acceleration we all do tend to use it on occasion. Overall the slider make for a much nicer behaving bike.........
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Just wondering out loud if Kymco re-programmed the fuel/timing curve to increase longevity or fix a known issue that could have resulted in lower power and economy.