KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: Exe on February 18, 2012, 06:44:54 AM
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After derestricting my 2011 model Agility 50 by replacing my boss drive with a smooth one, my Agility does absolutely horrible up hills. Before the derestriction I could do 15 to 20 mph uphill, but now I only do 7. Is there a reason for this, as it is truly very bad.
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..are you sure you didnt re-arrange the variator assembly while you were in there?
..i would verify that first..
Welcome to th' Forum!
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you also need to cut the cdi and put in a bigger main jet 82.
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I'm sure I didn't rearrange the variator assembly and I thought kymco stopped limiting the cdi after 2010
It seems like I don't achieve the same rpm at 30mph as I did before.
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Honda Ruckus Variator Installation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xii1YiJxHFk#)
Something did not go together correctly. Try it once more to be sure.
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I'm sure I didn't rearrange the variator assembly and I thought kymco stopped limiting the cdi after 2010
It seems like I don't achieve the same rpm at 30mph as I did before.
Sorry about that you may be right. make sure your belt is faceing the right way there should be arrows on the belt that shows the direction it should be going I have made that misstake my self.
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Also are you 100% sure you got the right smooth boss? Did you take the clutch side off at any point or take the clutch side apart? Something must be faulty in the cvt area somewhere. Whats your belt condition like too and your rollers? What weight are you using? Is the rest stock?
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Just a thought... Since the Var. is now allowed to travel to its limit the gearing would be lower. A stiffer control spring is needed to balance it again.
http://www.partsforscooters.com/Welcome?search=spring (http://www.partsforscooters.com/Welcome?search=spring)
The qmb 139 spring rated at 1000 should get you back up there, and then some. I think the OEM control spring may be weak to start with. Adding travel to the var. made it into a dog. Full gear at low rpm's = dog
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Did you at least achieve more top end i have a friend who changed just his smooth boss only and he gets 36 - 38 mph not a lot i know but its the difference of being able to keep ahead of traffic in a 30 zone, he never mentioned it was slower up hills but i guess as the belt now travels further up the variator it would be like putting a car in fifth gear to go up a hill it will not have the rpms. where did you get your smooth boss maybe its not the best suited for the kymco and is now allowing the belt to travel far to high up the variator....
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Did you at least achieve more top end i have a friend who changed just his smooth boss only and he gets 36 - 38 mph not a lot i know but its the difference of being able to keep ahead of traffic in a 30 zone, he never mentioned it was slower up hills but i guess as the belt now travels further up the variator it would be like putting a car in fifth gear to go up a hill it will not have the rpms. where did you get your smooth boss maybe its not the best suited for the kymco and is now allowing the belt to travel far to high up the variator....
I bought this model: http://www.ebay.com/itm/260881239776?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2136wt_1180 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/260881239776?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2136wt_1180)
I found the smooth boss Kymco supplies with the moped, but that was after I installed that one.
How about this torque spring? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gy6-Scooter-Atv-Quad-Racing-Torque-Spring-3-5mm-1000rpm-/170279133758?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_100&hash=item27a56d623e&vxp=mtr#ht_2348wt_1180 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gy6-Scooter-Atv-Quad-Racing-Torque-Spring-3-5mm-1000rpm-/170279133758?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_100&hash=item27a56d623e&vxp=mtr#ht_2348wt_1180)
Would 5.5g roller weights help too?
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I have to say no on the spring, and yes on the rollers. THAT spring is the correct size but is a cheap arse copy of what you need. You'll notice it is Cadmium plated (gold tone) Cadmium will not adhere to "true" spring steel making that a less than desirable part. Heat is the enemy in the cvt. Cheap springs won't last. Look for a better one. They Avg. about $15.00 US.
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Will I loose top speed after replacing the spring and rollers? I do max 40 mph now down hill a bit.
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Just a thought... Since the Var. is now allowed to travel to its limit the gearing would be lower. A stiffer control spring is needed to balance it again.
...lmao...what he said!......again.....
8)
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I have to say no on the spring, and yes on the rollers. THAT spring is the correct size but is a cheap arse copy of what you need. You'll notice it is Cadmium plated (gold tone) Cadmium will not adhere to "true" spring steel making that a less than desirable part. Heat is the enemy in the cvt. Cheap springs won't last. Look for a better one. They Avg. about $15.00 US.
Would it be worth it to get the rollers too? I'm having some difficulty finding the correct size and weight. Also, what is the torque of the default tension spring?
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..yeah get you som rollers too...4.7-5.5grams and play around wit it a bit...
..the default is @ 850, more or less...
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Ok, but what size rollers?
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"rollers too...4.7-5.5grams " 16x13mm With a stiffer spring maybe 5.5gr Maybe...
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Looking at the procedure of removing and disassembling the clutch, I think I'm just going to put in the 82 jet and deal with the hill problem.
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The jet will only give a SLIGHT increase in power. You may not even notice it. A scoot shop can install the spring for about $60.00 US. That is the only thing that will cure you troubles. (scoot wise anyway). Check out the Utube vids on spring changes... It's not so bad. 15 year olds can do it.
Chinese scooter compression spring change 50 cc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxphUXeTwRY#ws)
This is just one way.
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Well, looking at past topics on the clutch spring, some people get a drastic reduction of top speed after installing the clutch spring. At this moment, my scooter will do max 40 mph, regardless of how steep the hill is, so I'm worried I will loose quite a bit in speed.
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Understood. That is why the rollers need to be swapped too. It is mostly trial and error but your heavier OEM rollers will prevent any loss in top end. Lighter rollers will give more rpm that can translate to more hp. Rollers weights are the last thing to change after the clutch is dialed in.
New rollers/variator can be installed first to give a better all around feel/smoothness, and some top end increase but the slowing down under load is caused in the rear pulley set. It is much safer to tune the cvt than the engine as well. Wrong rollers you will know... wrong jet, and you may lose a piston/cylinder.
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Well, looking at past topics on the clutch spring, some people get a drastic reduction of top speed after installing the clutch spring. At this moment, my scooter will do max 40 mph, regardless of how steep the hill is, so I'm worried I will loose quite a bit in speed.
I use 5.5g rollers and a 1500rpm torque spring in the clutch and didnt lose any too end on my 2008 a50. Used a 1000rpm spring at 1st but o now run a longer belt and the 1500 works well for me, 30-40mph up normal hills, 20-28mph up steep hills, still gets 42-46 on the flats and goes past 50mph on the gauge downhill.
5.5g rollers, race variator, smooth boss, 1500rpm torque spring, 1500rpm clutch fly springs, 82 main jet, cut cdi, 736 x 17 x 30 Malossi kevlar belt, stock air box, stock exhaust.
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Would the belt material (standard, Kevlar, other) make a difference? What belt do you recommend for a derestricted Agility 50?
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Would the belt material (standard, Kevlar, other) make a difference? What belt do you recommend for a derestricted Agility 50?
Stock original belt will be fine if its not worn or cracked. Ive been messing about with other bits and pieces, trial and error really, to get mine set up the way that best suits my needs. This is the 1st kevlar belt ive tried, i read horror stories of them suddenly disintigrating to dust and some seem to hate them, im pleased with mine so far. Thevstandard stock belt will be fine tho for a normal derestrict.
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I use 5.5g rollers and a 1500rpm torque spring in the clutch and didnt lose any too end on my 2008 a50. Used a 1000rpm spring at 1st but o now run a longer belt and the 1500 works well for me, 30-40mph up normal hills, 20-28mph up steep hills, still gets 42-46 on the flats and goes past 50mph on the gauge downhill.
5.5g rollers, race variator, smooth boss, 1500rpm torque spring, 1500rpm clutch fly springs, 82 main jet, cut cdi, 736 x 17 x 30 Malossi kevlar belt, stock air box, stock exhaust.
Do you recommend any 5.5g rollers that are not extremely expensive? I'm having some difficulty finding specific 5.5 rollers and a 1000 rpm spring from one site to save on shipping.
Thanks
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I got Nakura 5.5g rollers from ebay for under £10 delivered i think from ebay but i also bought some basic no brand ones in the past from my local kymco dealer before for about £6-£8 i think.
Taipai Scooter Assassins do both im sure but delivery is usually a few weeks from the far east. If you get the rollers and try them and it feels too light you can fit 3x alternate 5.5g and 3x 6.5g (stock ones that are in now) to get the same result as using a set of 6g ones, just make sure you keep them spaced properly ie, 1x 5.5g then 1x6.5g etc so its balanced out. I know another member tried the 5.5gs in his and he said his reved to high for his liking, mine is a 2008 but his was newer like yours. He did the above to run it at 6g and prefered that, so if you buy 5.5g ones you have both options of 5.5g, 6g, and 6.5g if you mix and match what you have.
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So, I'm looking at buying these: http://www.scootertronics.com/1000rpmspring.html (http://www.scootertronics.com/1000rpmspring.html) and http://www.scootertronics.com/okogy650rowe.html (http://www.scootertronics.com/okogy650rowe.html)
I can't find anything stating that spring would work with my moped, but I'm fairly sure it will. Expensive, but can't find anything else that would be less and just as good quality.
Nevermind, after viewing the customer reviews I will definitely not be ordering from them, but rather from Scooter Assassins.
I can't find a single site which carries 5.5g and a 1000 rpm spring. This should't be this difficult.
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Where are you located?
Most of the shops will have all the bits you need but you will have to call as they don't all list everything they carry. Scooter parts international is my new Fav. Mention the Zuma forums for a 10% discount
www.spi-parts.com/ (http://www.spi-parts.com/)
I asked where your from as most shops will ship the same day as your order, and UPS is generally next day delivery within your state.
One last thing... Scooter Assassins sells ALOT of China cheap sh*t. AND 2 weeks deliv. Be careful what you order from them. If you are gonna order from Taiwan use Jiangwayne.com. Mention Kymco Forum/Zombie for 10% there as well. Ask for Wayne. http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/index.php (http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/index.php)
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I'm located in US, SC, though spi-parts didn't have much for the Agility 50. I'll take a look at the other site your mentioned.
Thanks for the help by the way.
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SPI has them... Just call. The owner/person you will talk to is a TOP engine tuner. Listen to his advice... Sucks I forgot his name. I am waiting for three different belts from them right now (back order). 2 from Italy (Malossi), and One from Japan (Bando). As long as you call before 4:00pm your parts will ship same day. Don't forget to mention the Zuma Forum...
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SPI has them... Just call. The owner/person you will talk to is a TOP engine tuner. Listen to his advice... Sucks I forgot his name. I am waiting for three different belts from them right now (back order). 2 from Italy (Malossi), and One from Japan (Bando). As long as you call before 4:00pm your parts will ship same day. Don't forget to mention the Zuma Forum...
Awesome, I'll give them a call tomorrow. I really appreciate the help.
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Rock on Bro!
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I can't seem to find a number on their site. Also, as in order over the phone or do you mean to direct my questions to whoever picks up?
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Scooter Parts International | 1-800-591-2670
It's an automated answering/screening system. Push the number for parts or customer service. Ask away... That's why they are there
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Scooter Assassins sells ALOT of China cheap sh*t. AND 2 weeks deliv. Be careful what you order from them.http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/index.php (http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/index.php)
Very true, but they do carry some branded parts too. Avoid the cheap crap tho. I ordered clutch fly springs frpm them and they were terrible quality and a terrible fit, endes up binning them and got some elsewhere instead. When i emailed S.A to complain and ask why they were called clutch springs when they were not actually proper springs (more like twisted bits of soft wire) i was told o had stretched them by fittong them wrongly, lol. I havent bought from them since and will never buy an unknown brandname item from them again.
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"http://www.racingplanetusa.com"
"http://www.mhr-usa.com"
..where i buy all my performance bits...
"http://www.kymcoparts123.com"
..for most my oem bits...
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The Agility 50 takes roller weights, not slider weights, right?
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The Agility 50 takes roller weights, not slider weights, right?
..it matters not...either will work, and the sliders generally offer better performance..
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Oh well, too late now.
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Installed the 82 jet and what a hell of a difference! My Agility now accelerates noticeably faster, more power taking off and going up hills, and she no longer bogs down in cold weather. I didn't expect going from 80 to 82 would make a noticeable difference, but was I wrong. Now I'm just waiting for my 5.5g rollers and 1000 rpm torque spring. With those I will gain more power, but less acceleration and speed right?
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Installed the 82 jet and what a hell of a difference! My Agility now accelerates noticeably faster, more power taking off and going up hills, and she no longer bogs down in cold weather. I didn't expect going from 80 to 82 would make a noticeable difference, but was I wrong. Now I'm just waiting for my 5.5g rollers and 1000 rpm torque spring. With those I will gain more power, but less acceleration and speed right?
Its good you feel a difference, tbh i didnt really notice when i did mine.
You should gain acceleration with the lighter rollers and this will help uphill along with the torque spring by keeping you in a higher gear longer so the revs stay higher uphill. It also helps a bit when you need to slow for traffic then want to speed up again. I felt the best improvement from the torque spring, best mod i did after a derestrict.
Keep us posted how you get on.
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Installed the 82 jet and what a hell of a difference! My Agility now accelerates noticeably faster, more power taking off and going up hills, and she no longer bogs down in cold weather. I didn't expect going from 80 to 82 would make a noticeable difference, but was I wrong.
How hard was it to get at and replace the jets? Did you take any pics?
I wasn't planning on replacing them, but since I have to change the spark plug anyway. Can you share a link to the parts?
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I used the jet Kymco supplied me with. I took off the carburetor by disconnecting the air intake, engine intake, auto bystarter, and then the fuel line. I left the throttle on, as I had enough slack to work on it next to my moped. You can wrap the fuel line around the seat lock to stop from spilling fuel. Then simply take off the bottom plate and replace the main jet, it's quite simple. Just take your time.
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"With those I will gain more power, but less acceleration and speed right?"
You only gain power in the engine, not the cvt. You can better transfer the power you have to the road tho.
You will gain BOTH acceleration, and top end speed by tuning the cvt correctly.
Since you found the jet an easy task you may want to try a few larger sizes to really dial it in. You may find an 88 works even better. Especially when you can run more rpm's on your cvt set up. You DON'T want the engine to starve. These little scoots run pretty god if you tweak em a lil.
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"With those I will gain more power, but less acceleration and speed right?"
You only gain power in the engine, not the cvt. You can better transfer the power you have to the road tho.
You will gain BOTH acceleration, and top end speed by tuning the cvt correctly.
Since you found the jet an easy task you may want to try a few larger sizes to really dial it in. You may find an 88 works even better. Especially when you can run more rpm's on your cvt set up. You DON'T want the engine to starve. These little scoots run pretty god if you tweak em a lil.
With an 88 I would need an open air filter right? Also, should I try 6.0g instead of the 5.5g I bought? How can I tell if I'm not getting all I can out of my scoot with the weights and torque spring?
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With an 88 I would need an open air filter right? Also, should I try 6.0g instead of the 5.5g I bought? How can I tell if I'm not getting all I can out of my scoot with the weights and torque spring?
There are no set rules Exe, its mostly trial and error till you feel its set up good and suits your needs. Sometimes you change something and it gets worse but you just keep tweaking till you get there. What works on 1 Aglity may not work on yours.
Generally an open air filter uses the 88 jet but wordslinger runs a 101 i think in his. The only real way to be sure is to do a plug chops check and see how its running, lean or rich or just right.
I use 5.5g rollers and like how they work on my a50 but others run stock 6.5g or 6g, its all personal preference and depends how you want it set up. I feel i get the best of both worlds, acceleration and top end with my current setup. I could improve my acceleration but i would prob lose top end, or i can get more top end but lose acceleration so i may struggle to hit the top speed. Its a balancing act but one its tweaked correct and youre happy it makes it all worth it. A lot of people start tuning but cannot be bothered or dont have the time or patience to mess around and get it just right, like i said, at times you end up going back to go forwards and wish you had left it as it was.
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Just a little tip i use, find a test route or maybe 3-5 miles where you can ride to check performance/speed and ride it to get to know what speeds you hit, how it acclerates etc. Once you know "right i can hit 30 up that hill, 42 on that flat and 44 down that hill" then you can tune up and check how it is against how it was. It just makes it easier to see any losses or gains.
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Generally an open air filter uses the 88 jet but wordslinger runs a 101 i think in his.
..yup, in this cold, relatively dry winter air we have here in the Piedmont, if i put inna 88 i'd have a fried piston in about 5 miles...
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Just a little tip i use, find a test route or maybe 3-5 miles where you can ride to check performance/speed and ride it to get to know what speeds you hit, how it acclerates etc. Once you know "right i can hit 30 up that hill, 42 on that flat and 44 down that hill" then you can tune up and check how it is against how it was. It just makes it easier to see any losses or gains.
well said streido---------Know what your scoot can do and rember that when it comes down to repairs.
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"we have here in the Piedmont" Look out your front window... No the other one!
Once you do the springs your scoot will change, and as said sometimes for the worse. The contra spring will increase your rpm's. sometimes too much. That's when you add HEAVIER rollers to bring it back to "balance". If the rpm's feel good w/ the stiffer spring... All the better.
Sterido has it right when saying use a constant course to "test" it out. The trick is finding the right rollers to control the rpm's.
It's not easy but it does work (tunning).
We all have had set backs in tuning, and I can tell you IT IS WORTH IT! My 35mph stock scoot now buries the needle on the speedo. 3 years to get there but I didn't go to the "crack house" once in those three years cause I was toooooo busy tuning! (and spent all my money on parts)
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So should I add the tension spring and test it out first before installing the new roller weights.
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I would. You don't know what rpm change the spring kit will add so you can't yet know what weight to order. Stock weight will rev higher than before so the carb should be ready for tuning to work. If you find the rpm's to be good then get a good set of new rollers (same wt) If there too hi get a set heavier. I know this is opposite of roller only tuning where you want to go lighter to improve. As I pointed out the spring brings them up. The rollers now control the spring.
Sooo why buy them before you know?
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..when i was running a 1000 contra, my scoot liked 4.7 gram rollers...now that i'm running a blue malossi 1500, 5 grams acts about the same as the 4.7s did, except that 1500 is th' bomb!
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I've torn up two used belts in the ZX w/ 2000/8gr. The prior set up ran good on 1500/5.5gr, but had way less torque. Just depends on the mysterious "Driver/input/balance/engine power@rpm" formula + What do you want the scoot to do = What do I have to buy next?
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Put in the 5.5 g weights and it slows my moped down to 25 with the spring. Mixing stock and new ones are better, but I guess I need 7.0 g.
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So I have a baseline, what are the stock roller weights and spring RPMs?
I cut the cdi which only gave an additional 3mph. Installing the 82mm jet in the next few weeks and the smooth boss this summer. I don't like the sound of those up hill numbers after the smooth boss was installed and I do not want to mess with taking apart the clutch, so what weights would give the best up hill speed without reducing the flat top end speed below 39mph?
The rider is 175lbs.
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Also, would sliders work with the stock variator?
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You're on the right track exe. That was my point. A stiffer spring NEEDS heavier rollers. Find the ones that get the most top end with the least weight. Mixing is good for testing but NOT for use.
Ore... The rollers can go from 4-6 to increase your "pep" Maybe you can get EXE's 5.5's He don't need them
, and they're new...
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I'm late to the thread ::)
I lost a lot of uphill power in my people after changing my boss. The RPMs were much higher with the restriction but only went 30mph. I had only had the scooter for a couple of months before I changed it. I had very little knowledge of CVTs or even jetting carburetors. Turns out my stock jet was a 70 :o
I think with these newer models changing the jet is almost required with the derestriction. Live and learn.
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You're on the right track exe. That was my point. A stiffer spring NEEDS heavier rollers. Find the ones that get the most top end with the least weight. Mixing is good for testing but NOT for use.
Ore... The rollers can go from 4-6 to increase your "pep" Maybe you can get EXE's 5.5's He don't need them
, and they're new...
Sure, are you in the States Exe?
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..i ran 4.7gr rollers in my 08 a50 screamer...
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I'm sure I didn't rearrange the variator assembly and I thought kymco stopped limiting the cdi after 2010
It seems like I don't achieve the same rpm at 30mph as I did before.
Hey guys, just wanted to say that the 2010 CDI's are restricted. If -11 or -12 are, i dont know but id like to know if they are :)
Have anyone got a link to somewhere where this is proved or busted? :D
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There are several post claiming to have emailed Kymco USA/Global to have that answer. NO restriction on the cdi after 2010. Email them to be sure, and let us know.
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I will sell you them for $10.
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I will sell you them for $10.
$10 for the roller weights sounds good. Sent you a PM.
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There are several post claiming to have emailed Kymco USA/Global to have that answer. NO restriction on the cdi after 2010. Email them to be sure, and let us know.
Message sent, i believe. I clicked submit, and it directed me to a page with alot of asian letters on it, but i could see the word "sent" in the navigation bar :D
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Kymco Global is a real sh** mess. I asked for info on the Clear Euro. lenses, and they directed me to THEIR web address. I still have red lenses
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Kymco Global is a real sh** mess. I asked for info on the Clear Euro. lenses, and they directed me to THEIR web address. I still have red lenses
Yeah, still haven't got an answer on the CDI.... But i guess they dont want us to change anything on their machines ;)
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But i guess they dont want us to change anything on their machines
..bet it sucks to be them!!!
:D
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But i guess they dont want us to change anything on their machines
..bet it sucks to be them!!!
:D
:D :D :D
"No CDI for you"
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Thanks Exe I got the rollers.
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I just emailed Kymco UK to ask also. They were quivk to answer my questions before so hopefully they will respond in a day or so. Let you know what they say.
Heres the link for any UK based owners looking for technical advice http://www.kymco.co.uk/contact-us_tech.html (http://www.kymco.co.uk/contact-us_tech.html) .
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Wow, got a reply within 30mins! Good service from Kymco.
Heres what i wrote, " Enquiry: I have a 2010 Agility 50cc which is now derestricted with a smooth boss and 82 jet but i am unsure if the cdi still has the rev limiter in the 2010 models? I know my 07 plate a50 had a restricted cdi which i was able to cut the wire on at the bottom edge but people say newer a50's have unrestricted cdi's already? Could you please confirm if the new a50's do indeed have unrestricted cdi's and tell me when this change came about? Is my 2010 a50 cdi restricted or not? I believe the restriction was removed by Kymco from either 2010 or 2011 or 2012 models onwards?
Thanks for any help/advice offered."
This is the answer i got back, " Dear Stephen The situation with the Agility 50 cdi has not changed since their introduction, the cdi has a rev limiter fitted on all models leaving the assembly plant. Regards."
Kinda throws a cat amoungst the pigeons now as i know at least 1-2 folk with 2011-2012 A50's who say they have unrestricted cdi's. If Kymco say its restricted tho then i guess they are?
Just posted this up on the forum as a seperate topic in case people miss it since this thread was about something else initially.
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Thank you for that...