KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => People 50 => Topic started by: wordslinger on February 04, 2012, 09:35:46 PM
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..put a kiit on that bitch!..
8)
..well, i'm finally going to upgrade one of my ppls to a 48mm, 72cc....
..piston, rings, head, cylinder, pipe, filter...never attempted this before, ssso.......
..i have a question ...anybody got a suggestion of what my main jet should work out to be?
..this issa 2001, and has the big carb, same as S9lc except for coolant ports..
peace
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Congrats sir.
FYI 48mm is going to be bigger than 72cc. :) It's 74.9cc.
Do you have a link to the kit you're using? I haven't tried it before.
If you're going to use the stock carburetor, I'd keep the OEM filter - it's easier to dial in. You need to shim the needle with the open filter, and it can be kind of a pain. At least, that's my experience. I usually do the PHBG anyway. That said, using the stock filter you'll probably be in the 90-100 area on the main jet. The last time I did a setup with a stock carb, I think I was somewhere around 94 on the main, but I can't remember for sure... It's best to jet rich, and go down one size at a time until it stops sputtering at WOT, then start doing plug chops.
Keep us posted.
~Josh
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FYI 48mm is going to be bigger than 72cc. It's 74.9cc.
Do you have a link to the kit you're using? I haven't tried it before.
..well, thats even better!..
..i got it from mhr-usa.com, in their "specials" section, but i have not looked for the motorio link yet..good idea!..
..batman turned me on to it, he got same thing for his zx, i believe..
..thanx for the oem airbox tip..easier is better for me, as i burned the oem piston and trashed the cylinder..
..i've had crap for luck in my 2t experience..got 74,000kms on my a50, but i've burned 2 2t pistons, whn i would have sworn on the plug chops...
..thanx for the info josh!
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With an open filter I was running 150ish main, and 48 pilot.(47mm kit) I never tried w/ a stock filter but 90 may even be too low depending on the pipe. If you get a jet kit start at 90, and get them thru to 130. Like Aero says start rich, and work down. Also DONT try to get the jetting on the first run. Get the idle/mid range first. Break it in fir 2-3 days running on those circuits only. Then start creeping it up. I dont really believe in extended break in but w/ the cheap sh*t pistons they are providing it is almost mandatory to dial them in perfectly from the start. You'll be a scream'in demon in a week. Order xtra head gaskets too. at least 3. You can run it w/ 2 or more to break it in.
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With an open filter I was running 150ish main, and 48 pilot.(47mm kit)
..woww...
You can run it w/ 2 or more to break it in.
..what do you mean by this?..
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Double up the head gaskets to lower compression. The Motrino kit is the Ruima kit. It does NOT have a squish band. It is a controlled combustion design made to run higher compression, and avoid pre-ignition. The problem is it is more sensitive to lean conditions, as it will try to PLOW thru, and you will have another piston for your desk. Once you have the jetting/break in done remove the extra gaskets, and enjoy. I see another Sid thread comming... 40 pages.
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The Motrino kit is the Ruima kit
..i did not know that..no wonder my googling was coming up short..
I see another Sid thread comming... 40 pages.
..lmao..yeah, this is going to be FUN!!
;D
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That's why we do it RIGHT! Most important thing is to chamfer/de-burr/measure EVERYTHING. Don't trust the Manuf. to do it. And add guide pins between the head, and Cyl. as there are none. A misaligned head will give you a squish band on the first start up.
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Most important thing is to chamfer/de-burr/measure EVERYTHING. Don't trust the Manuf. to do it. And add guide pins between the head, and Cyl. as there are none. A misaligned head will give you a squish band on the first start up.
..awesome!..thanx z...imma complete newbie...don't know a damned thing...
..hows best way to install guide pins?
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I bought a set of them at Ace Hardware for 4.50. They are made for Chevy 350ci engine heads. Find a drill bit that is a tight fit for the pins in a test hole in a piece of scrap metal. Then just drill into 2 of the holes for the cylinder studs, and the same for the head. They are called Guide Dowels (really just hollow tubes made from case hardened steel) http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Cylinder-Head-Dowel-Pins/ (http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Cylinder-Head-Dowel-Pins/)
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..okay.."roll pins"..."spring pins".. i gots that stuff already...
..nuther ?..what plug would be right for this 48mm?
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..just checked that link..not really spring pins..
:o
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Depends on tooo many things...Lean, Rich, Humidity, ect. They will ship you an NGK BR8HSA if you ask for their recommendation. I am using a BR9HSA. Slightly colder, and am looking for a 10 so I can lower my jug, and raise the timings. The 9 runs real well when it warms up. The 8 would ping a little at WOT. W/ a stock filter tho you may run better on a 7 getting more heat to burn a richer mix. ORRRRRRR you could try a BR8HS. Same heat range just all tucked up into the head instead of being in the flash zone. You will loose a few rpm.s but gain a few cc's(.5-1.5), and jetting will be better tolerated cause the flame front has to start at the top, and go in one direction DOWN. W/ an extended tip the flame travels in all directions making detonation more likely. It's all a balancing act Bro!
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Spring pinns will work if you can find one thin walled enough for the studs to fit thru. You will have to cut them to length tho.
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...okay cool..trial end error, and i have those plugs already, except for th 7s...
..my buds oem zx runs like crap with th brhs...put in a hsa and it smooths right out..
..thanx for all the info, z....i gotta roll outta here..
..be back on sometime tomorrow...
peace
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Cool!
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40 pages here we come...
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40 pages here we come...
:) ;D :D :o :) ;D :D :o
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Hey homey, sorry i didnt get this to you last night but here is 1 source for the pb jets.. I can't believe the price jump on jets since the last time i looked. :o When my hard drive was wiped of course i lost all my saved favs. :'(
Oh yeah, i had used this same kit on a cobra not my zx.(i had the malossi 1st, now i'm trying a 50mm RUIMA) I was impressed myself, especially with the price they were. That was some awesome timimg too. ;) I didnt port anything with the kit i installed, had a perfect squish of .9.(only champered) The scoot runs strong still today... :D I had actually drilled out the jets on it.(THINKING i had em at 90mj,38pj)(i can build, just can't tune to well.. :D ;))
Pilot jets
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-21_slow_26-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-21_slow_26-xxx.htm)
Main Jets
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm)
These jets are for the keihin PB carbs which is on alot of the kymcos.
We will have you screaming soon and like i told you the other day, you will PARK kymmi and ride Marilyn(idk where that came from, it just popped in me head, guess i thought of the sexy monroe. :D ::))
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..welll, z-man...i don't se any good way to locate the head/cylinder assembly...
..i'll post some pics later, but there are no reference points that i can drill...
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W/ the kit off place the head on the jug, and look thru the bottom. I used 2 wood dowels thru the stud holes to test. If your head lines up this way go ahead and drill 1/4" into the stud holes in the cyl. going down, and the head going up. http://ebay.globaldc.com/scooterparts/borekits/100ccGY6/install/bbk.html (http://ebay.globaldc.com/scooterparts/borekits/100ccGY6/install/bbk.html) In this link you will see some dowels used to align the cly/cases, and cly/head. Real easy BRO!
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I forgot. If it don't line up w/ wood then use the piston to align them, and mark it from there.
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...aahh...now i see...just open the existing bolt-holes...i thot you meant to drill new holes...
..be patient with me bro, i'm young and tender...
;D
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..got to thinking about a statement zombie made on another thread about polishing the head to reduce the possibility of carbon buildup...
..noticed that my 48mm jug's exhaust port had a very rough, cast finish...
..so i decided to rectify that happy crappy...
..it's gettin' there!!
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..be patient with me bro, i'm young and tender... I just heard that last night!
Way to go on the polishing. No boost in Perf. BUT a great way to extend the kit life. The closer to mirror the better. Same goes for the piston dome, and Cyl. Head. Does your kit have (2) Chinese symbols on the Cly. base?
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...dunno if you can see the rough area at the cylinder port, in the second pic..
..well, that measures 63%..however, 1/8" into the exhaust port, that id drops considerable...
..should that port be opened up to the same i.d. as at the cylinder?
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YES! In fact you should taper outward going into the flange. The reason that ridge is there is from the casting was never tapered after the Cyl. liner was pressed in. I dont think the ports are clean either. I can see a transfer port in the background that is not "square" or evenly cut. You can also see alot of casting debris in the top of the transfer tunnel. You my friend are about to enter the ~Twilight Zone~ Are there cast symbols on the Cyl. base?
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..alrighty then...lets get out some grinding stones....
..do those port edges need to have sharper square corners?
..i dont have the cyl with me today, i'll chec for symbols when i get home..
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The reason that ridge is there is from the casting was never tapered after the Cyl. liner was pressed in.
..this appears to be a single machined, cast steel unit...I see no evidence of there being a sleeve..
Are there cast symbols on the Cyl. base?
there are absolutely no markings at all on the cylinder...
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Ok. Motorino (motori /whatever) is a resale outfit. They do not manufacture but sell others product. Great prices on many good items too. The jug you have is NOT a ruima but something else. There HAS to be a liner in it or throw it away/sell it today. Cast iron is VERY porous, and does not machine well. It could be they cast/cut/sell. I think you would be better off returning it in exchange for the Ruima which they also sell. The port roofs are CRITICAL for performance. the angle is paramount to flow. Your casting looks like a day at the beach. Cleaning it all to perfection will be like painting a dirt ball if their is no liner. It should have a machined steel liner. I HATE bursting your bubble Bro! Don't you have a ZX? Point is if the jug for the Peop. is the same bolt pattern you have alot more options.
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I HATE bursting your bubble Bro! Don't you have a ZX?
...yeah well, buy cheap..get cheap sh**, huh?....
..i'm almost 100% positive itsa one-piece chunk...
..no, i don't hve a zx...i do, however, have 3 ppl jugs...
..what are you thinking??
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Motorino has the Ruima jug I am using at a better price than Jiangwayne. That jug runs like a raped ape w/o the stroker, and needs very little tweaking. You can install it w/o going into the boost port mods, and it will preform as well or better than the Malossi. The reason is the torque from the xtra cc's. I thought the Peop. case was the same as the zx but found it is different. My thinking is if the studs are the same, and the liner fits GO RUIMA. I can/will walk you thru it, and you will have a 55-60mph peop. with more torque than you would believe. I bought Aeromyst's zx engine, and it will be here by Monday afternoon. I can measure it all out for you, and see if it will fit the jug you have now (compare the 2). Or here comes "Son of Sid"
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..okay, that'd be cool!..is that a 48mm jug?
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Stud pattern on the Kymco People is the same as Super 9, cobra, etc. It's also the same as minarelli stud pattern, though Mina cylinders will not work on Kymco cases without an 85mm rod and some cylinder mods.
These are horizontal engines - the ZX is vertical and stud pattern is more like Peugeot, Honda, SYM, etc.
~Josh
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..well then, I guess that answers that question..lol...
..thanx Areomyst!
;)
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You got this homey... ;)
Yeah, i'm pretty sure they aren't sleeved out but the one i was able to play with seems to still run good to this day. The only issue I had at that time was the oil pump shaft being worn out terrible so she wanted to seize up, fixed that issue and she screamed. Of course my cvt tuning is not a comparison to your work so i'm sure she may be a ble to run better.. :D
With my sorry ass tester i had 125 psi on a comp test with this same kit.(of course imma thinking my sears comp tester is around 20psi off)(seeing how i have 90 on the s9 and she CAN start 1st kick,she's rode daily and with a mina engine that i done as well)
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It's not uncommon to see 160+ on a big bore kit on Kymco.
On the People, I would recommend swapping out the cylinder bolts for studs - like the ones on Minarelli engines. This allows you to get the head torqued down properly. With some of the aftermarket cylinder kits for Kymco, the bolts bottom out before they make firm contact with the head... It'll run great for a while, then you'll start going through head gaskets, and wondering why.
Most of the iron cylinders on scooters are cast iron, but I believe they use special vacuum casting to keep bubbles and casting flaws to a minimum - then they bore and hone the cylinder. Aluminum cylinders are usually plated. I haven't seen any sleeved cylinders yet for scooters. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that I haven't seen them.
~Josh
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The Ruima I am running is a sleeved Cyl. On the port work I had to get a diamond bit to cut the ports. The stone bits made short work in tunnels but could not cut the liner. I'll check the Malosi tomorrow, and post. Perhaps it is a decent jug/ with a little work. Maybe post some picts. of the ports/ tunnels to get a better idea of what is needed to clean it up. If Bats's Cyl. is working...
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The Ruima I am running is a sleeved Cyl. On the port work I had to get a diamond bit to cut the ports. The stone bits made short work in tunnels but could not cut the liner. I'll check the Malosi tomorrow, and post. Perhaps it is a decent jug/ with a little work. Maybe post some picts. of the ports/ tunnels to get a better idea of what is needed to clean it up. If Bats's Cyl. is working...
Sounds good! Post up a photo if you can. I'd like to check it out. It doesn't seem to be mainstream for scooter parts manufacturers to use sleeves... I thought about buying some small sleeves from LA SLeeve (talked to them about it last year) and start using them in ruined cylinders to fix 'em up easily.
Cheers!
~Josh
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That's a GREAT idea J. In thinking about it I realized what you said about vacuum casting is correct. Caterpillar engines have always been produced this way. I'll bring the camera.
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..thanx for all you guys input!..i had intended to assemble everything this wekend, but work came first..(don't it always seem so)..
..i got loads of pics, i'll start posting them later..
..i did run up on one small snag, the jug base ran up against a hump on the right-hand side of the case, and i had to remove some meat from the jug for proper aligment..
..didnt notice this till i was tightening the bolts, and the piston didnt want to go all the way thru its stroke...i may be back to the point of re-assembling by this evening..
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The piston won't travel freely in the cylinder? Odd. Is the piston installed correctly, with the ring-ends facing up? If not, the rings are likely to be catching in the exhaust port.
Pictures would be cool. :)
Keep us posted, and good luck!
~Josh
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Hey, I checked the Malossi, and it is a one piece casting. Surprised me. I ordered a second Ruima kit last week that should be here this week. I will double chk. that one. Your rings have a tiny letter/number on the top/up facing side. It will be right near the gap area. Usually Laser etched. Good luck Slinger. I have alot of extra bits/parts if you need anything.
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The piston won't travel freely in the cylinder? Odd
..yeah, i got that tho..had to grind a lil off the corner of the base...nice and free now..
..assembled and have 120psi compression with 7 kicks ...
..hopefully not going to need extra bits!!..but thanx z!
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...so, now im jetting...put inna 40 slow jet, and starting with a 120 main, of which popular opinion says is going to be waay too rich...
..oh, btw i'm installing both a pipe and air filter...might as well go all out on my first one!!
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WRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! GIGGLE~ GIGGLE~ GIGGLE WRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
bwoop bwoop Sir! Are you aware you were doing 62mph on a 50cc restricted scooter? Sir Place your hands on the hood of my car please.
POW! POW! ZZZZZZTTTTT!ZZZZZZZTTTTTTT! STOP RESISTING! ON THE GROUND!
Rodney King (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGKRSQCvBfM#)
Gotta love our civil servants...
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..well, it's clear!!!
..he just should have stopped resisting!!..that laying down on the ground covring one's head and ballsack can be very aggressive behavior!!
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40 may be a little light. I have a 47 (2 turns out) 120 is good to start. I wound up at 118 after raising the compression (1 clip lean, 24mm carb.).But I also have the power boost jet so 120 may even be lean. The Malossi ran on a 150. I would stay off the 1/2-wot till the rings settle as the piston I am sure is a cheap one, and prone to melting over the rings on the Exh. side. Give it a couple days of low speed cruising to settle it in. I've been having better luck w/ the China parts this way. CONGRATS BRO!
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..well, it's clear!!!
..he just should have stopped resisting!!..that laying down on the ground covring one's head and ballsack can be very aggressive behavior!!
Agreed!
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40 may be a little light
...i got the wrong slow jets from Jets-r-us, so i had to drill my 35 out to what is slightly over 40...
..i can drill larger if needed...
..yeah, i gave 150 bucks for the whole shebang..cyl, piston/rings, pin/clips, head, pipe, fan, clutch, contra with these nifty lil ball-bearings...lol..
..itsa cheap one alright!!
;D
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I think the 47 120 will be way rich... Z is running a oko 24mm carb. You will be using the stock 16mm.
I guess it's stay tuned time to find out the results... :D
HEY, Don't be knocking the cheap sh**.... :D :D :D ;D
I'm going to be running some "cheap sh**" on the z...........one day if i ever get her up again... ::)
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I think the 47 120 will be way rich... Z is running a oko 24mm carb. You will be using the stock 16mm.
I guess it's stay tuned time to find out the results... :D
HEY, Don't be knocking the cheap sh**.... :D :D :D ;D
I'm going to be running some "cheap sh**" on the z...........one day if i ever get her up again... ::)
Like that fat fkr knows what in the hell is going on...SHEESH... :D ;)
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Like that fat fkr knows what in the hell is going on...SHEESH... :D ;)
...lmfao!!
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Motorino has some good stuff. Better than alot of the ebay sellers. The BB's you referred to... Are they for a torsion controller? Those sell for 40-50 $'s alone! They can be a pain to install as you need to use grease to hold them till the spring is holding them. Too much grease in the clutch = burnt shoes. Be carefull w/ that. Ps The controller goes in the clutch side of the spring. I put a few in the wrong side.
Bats, I need an address Bro!
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http://youtu.be/Op37U190cPI (http://youtu.be/Op37U190cPI)
...why cant i get a youtube vid to show up??
..zzzzommmbieeee!!...heeelllp!!!...
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Some of the vids just wont embed. I just copy/paste the link. Sounds like a winner! The smoke... From assembly oil? How's it feel on the road? !st kit!
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..assembly oil..yeah, i poured a lil 2t in the case before assembly too..that was right after first firing in the vid...
..still gots final jetting, plastics, lights wiring etc to do before riding...
..then comes the really FUN part..CVT!!
:D ;D :o ;D :D
..holy sh**! Batman, I wanna ride this monster!!
..first kit ever...
..imma call her "Kitty"..
;D
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Kitty it is then! Go easy on her. She new to this. Make sure to use a rubber!
I Killed the Wrong Guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaWDcG7M0g8#ws)
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OOOPS! Wrong link...
big explosion scooter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGObUIDQpjM#)
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That's why we do it RIGHT! Most important thing is to chamfer/de-burr/measure EVERYTHING. Don't trust the Manuf. to do it. And add guide pins between the head, and Cyl. as there are none. A misaligned head will give you a squish band on the first start up.
"chamfer/de-burr/measure EVERYTHING"... sh**! Experience is everything huh zombie? I guess on the next one, hahha. Really not funny :(.
I tried to align the head and cylinder as best I could, but it's pretty much impossible using the stock bolts huh? Malossi gives you bogus directions on using a feeler gauge to measure piston clearance which I did but I don't think it did much good. I had no idea you could add guide pins. Well I'm close 1000 kms on my 2nd kit(fingers crossed).
1st one made it maybe 100 kms but that's because my wrist pin clip came out and embedded itself into the side of the piston. My fault I bent one of the new clips and thought I could use the old one. WRONG! Expensive mistake, yes, but I don't feel like it's a complete loss after all: experience is everything. I also stupidly used the stock crush gasket for the exhaust instead of the one used with the my Tecnigas exhaust. I just forgot it used a different gasket. Ultimately the clip was the cause of failure though.
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Right on Bro! Their finicky little buggers... Cheaper than a street rod tho. I found it easiest to table clamp the head/cyl. to a drill press, and use 3-4 different steps up w/ the drill bits. The sizes are close enough if the bit can almost twist in by hand. That way the factory drilled holes are the guide. Wouldn't wanna try it w/ a hand drill tho.
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Experience is everything huh zombie?
..i had some good advice from great friends...the whole experience has been great so far...
..of course, i aint got her out on the street yet...lol..
..if i can get a few thousand kms outta this cheap-ass kit, i reckon i'll be happy :)
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"..if i can get a few thousand kms outta this cheap-ass kit, i reckon i'll be happy "
That's the whole point right there!
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...on another note, we put a Technigas NEXT pipe on my buds ppl yesterday, looks great and sounds AWESOME!!..
..oem carb, airbox and a 90 main jet...
..he told me this morning, that at @ 50+ indicated, the engine starts "popping"..
..i allowed how that's probably lean, and we need to increase jet size to maybe a 95...
..that sound about right?
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What year is your buddy's People? Has rev-limiter been disabled?
Upjetting is important, yes. :)
~Josh
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If the popping is thru the pipe it is lean. 50+ sounds like wot so the needle would have NO effect. If he is centered w/ the needle clip then a 95, and lean the clip for midrange. He may start going rich in the mid (w/ the 95) if the needle is not leaned to compensate.
I've told my real life friends to stay away because my forum friends are soooooooooo much better. XOXOXO (gay huh) Bring on the scootgirl!
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..its an 02, has the bronze carb with the bigger slider...
..completely derestricted, malossi multivar with 8.5 oem rollers, 743 belt, oem clutch with unrestricted driven pulleys..
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If the popping is thru the pipe it is lean. 50+ sounds like wot so the needle would have NO effect
..that's what i thot as well...
..i sold him this scoot, its the one that tried to kill me back in november..we call her christine..evil fukn cyclops bitch...
..so, i know that the needle has not been touched..
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I've told my real life friends to stay away because my forum friends are soooooooooo much better
..couldnt prove that by your "Ethanol" thread..lmo!!!
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Forgot... The reason the expansion chamber pipe requires richer jetting is the OEM type pipes create alot of back pressure to stop the incoming fuel charge from dumping out the pipe w/ the burnt gases. The Exp. pipe is designed to have almost zero back pressure, and uses sound waves to push the fuel charge back into the jug thru the exhaust port (not atmospheric pressure). So with better efficiency in removing the charge you need to compensate by adding a richer charge, as the gases being pushed back in (from an Exp. pipe) are diluted w/ the burnt gases.
Just kinda paraphrased that but I know you get it.
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..couldnt prove that by your "Ethanol" thread..lmo!!!
I get naked, and put steel wool in my butt before posting on that thread! "I'm Feeling Hot,Hot,Hot!"
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Just kinda paraphrased that but I know you get it.
..yes i do...thank you very much!..this was my first pipe upgrade...
..we have free-flow filters in transit, so there'll be more jetting to come..
..i also have the techni pipe to install on my s9 at some point, but imma wait on that for a while..she runs so good oem..lol..
..yeah, wait a while.........or will I?.........
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..couldnt prove that by your "Ethanol" thread..lmo!!!
I get naked, and put steel wool in my butt before posting on that thread! "I'm Feeling Hot,Hot,Hot!"
What?!? I thought I was the only one that... Nevermind.
I'm starting to wonder about my internet buddies. :P
Wordslinger, how's the takeoff on the People? I've always found the People to be tougher than normal to get dialed in with an expansion chamber on the stock cylinder. I blamed it on the gearing since it has the 16" rear wheel...
~Josh
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That... WHAT J.?
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Wordslinger, how's the takeoff on the People? I've always found the People to be tougher than normal to get dialed in with an expansion chamber on the stock cylinder
..it had awesome, instant take-off..no lag at all till the pipe..
..now, he's reporting a bit of initial lag, but that after it "latches in" it's like a rocket..
..going to try 8 gram rollers (in transit)..to see if that takes care of the lag...
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Stiffer Contra spring to hold the "gear" longer.
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W/ the pipe, and lighter rollers he will pass the pipe quickly, and fall flat again.
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..the tech next pipe came with 7 gram rollers...lol..
...put'm in the box with the rest of the old/new un-needed bits...
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Stiffer Contra spring to hold the "gear" longer
..oh yeah, i forgot to mention that i put a malossi blu (1500?) a few weeks back, which did indeed get it to the point of instant takeoff..
..i have a malossi MHR red in transit...
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Well then it may be a flat spot in the jetting/wrong plug gap. Try adjusting the gap (bigger/smaller).
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..like that pipe..lol..
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should i further index my oil pump with the added displacement?
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..see that spec of aluminum?
...I HADDA HELLUVA TIME CLEANING THE CASE!!...
:o
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..dunno what this port does, on the piston..but i cleaned it up...
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..this shoulda tipped me off about the jug hitting on the left...see those humps?
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..had to clean up the jug, and the top hump...
..good thing i noticed it before i fired it...
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Beautiful Schtuff Bro! BUT ABORT THE OIL PUMP! JiangWayne's Wayne explained these kits need 37:1 FULL Synth from the start. More than that, and the oil takes up jet space. The pump has varying oil and plays hell w/ combustion temp.. When you throttle down the engine is running Max rpm's at a 100:1 ratio from the pump but 37:1 premix I stubbornly tried the pump any way but soft seized at least 4=5 times. Adding oil to the tank w/ the pump is even leaner Because the oil in the tank takes up jet space leaning the fuel to air ratio even more. I just carry a bottle of 2t, and some 1oz cups in a clean bag. Just pull the pump, take/grind off the gear, and put it back in
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I stubbornly tried the pump any way but soft seized at least 4=5 times
..i think that's been my problem 2t child...
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Just pull the pump, take/grind off the gear, and put it back in
..no sh**?
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Next time you split those cases, and remove ALL the sharp corners, and flatten those spots where it hit. The smoother EVERYTHING is in there the more torque/rpm's you can get. That's all the stuff I polished mirror
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For real... Don' have to buy a plug that way
.Just pull the pump, take/grind off the gear, and put it back in
..no sh**?
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..i thot about that..but at the time, i was more concerned with getting out the dumb sh**..from the melted piston...
..think i got everything pretty damned clean...
..worked onnit for hours..ask batman...lol..
..he patiently coached me thru a bunch of this project..
..where is he......
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For real... Don' have to buy a plug that way
..just so happens, i have an old, worn oil pump that dont need its gears anyway...
..how much per gallon should i mix with this 75cc, and what's the best sh**??
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..dunno how this pic represents, but i hand-polished everey port edge...for smoothness...
..again..for hours....
;D
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That's all the work that will make it last. I've been using Golden Spectro Synth for 46 years. For easy #'s just mix it 2oz per gallon. That's 32:1. You can order it in cases for about 6 bucks a bottle. They are the best imho
http://www.spectro-oils.com/?p=248 (http://www.spectro-oils.com/?p=248)
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..i gotta dealer just down the road that sells that..
..its actually where i bought my last helmet..cooollll....
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That's awsome. You might see if he will give a case discount cause it can sell for 12.99 qt. The MX Synth is the same oil as the scooter oil w/ higher octane/burn temp. almost too much for scoots. You just need to repack the silencer more often cause it leaves more oil. OR remove/empty the silencer. The later will require (1) clip richer in the carb. How did the last piston in there die?
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How did the last piston in there die?
..that faulty oil pump i mentioned before..
..it leaked, and i didnt notice it before it was too late...
..remember, i ride 40 miles a day...lol...pretty much wot all the way...
>:(
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...no, wait..wrong scoot..that was christine...
..thisn i just missed the WOT jetting, i think...
..oem, with k&n filter, and a 748 belt this 02 would peg the speedometer easily...
..maintain 45-50 on the flats...easily...
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it can sell for 12.99 qt.
..thats high, but you pay for what you get when buying lubes....
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..01 ppl indicates 60mph...
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Do you have a pict of the old piston? The condition will tell why it failed, and help prevent that happening again
http://www.theultralightplace.com/pistons.htm (http://www.theultralightplace.com/pistons.htm)
http://www.dansmc.com/seizure.htm (http://www.dansmc.com/seizure.htm)
https://www.slipstreamperformance.com.au/store/index.php?cPath=4_567 (https://www.slipstreamperformance.com.au/store/index.php?cPath=4_567)
http://oxytane.com/mystery/engine%20deposits/Piston_Failures_Explained.pdf (http://oxytane.com/mystery/engine%20deposits/Piston_Failures_Explained.pdf)
the last one is pdf for keeping
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..01 ppl indicates 60mph...
That's hot sh#t! The new kit will give MAYBE 5mph above that from the xtra cc's but it will get their alot quicker. Get into gears for it to take advantage of the torque gain. Then you may have a 55-60mph cruise, and 70top. Alot safer than a ZX too!
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..the dome of the piston was not burned, not at all, nowhere around its perimeter...rings failed top and bottom of cylinder orientation...underneath side of piston dome was "cooked" black oil...cylinder scored badly on top and bottom...
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..fuzzy pic...lol..
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You were right to think wot jetting. A leaner clip on a bigger jet would have got it. I'm gonna try a 118 (is now 115) w/ a leaner clip tomorrow. I have (1) lean spot around 6.5k that the idle screw cant reach. I'll let you know...
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A leaner clip on a bigger jet would have got it.
..so i'm learning...
..this was my first 2t scoot...the oem air filter element was junk..
..was forced to re-jet right off th bat...or wait for a replacement..
..i just missed th boat, i think...lol..
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Everything has to be like you would imagine a street/race scoot would be. Figure the things you expect should be there... Do the ones you know, and look around for the rest. SOME sh#t/tuning is razor edge stuff that a street scoot doesn't even need. All the little things like drilling oilers in the wrist pin bosses or directing air flow thru the cases. You take all this into a plan with the cvt tunning in mind, and you get a GREAT scoot. I figure for real mine is worth 3g's. I have a very few things left to get it there but there are not many zx's around to begin with. Not the same as an S/9 but still nostalgia cool. Your people could be made into a cool "cafe racer" type... ? "bobber"... Or just "sleeper" I KNOW a Peop. can beat a zx top end. It has too w/ 16" wheels. The key on that is GEARS = to CVT... Maybe CRAZY tall cvt (low rpm)/ + INSANE low gears (hi rpm) + 16" wheel = 75-78mph. F#K !!! I just posted that... Now everyone will know...
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...where's art....
..cat's outta th' bag now...
..heeeere pussy pussy!
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..my buds got a sweet lil oem zx...itll scat!!..
...josh actually did the de restrict onnit back in th day...
..he's sweatin the 01 ppl and nina and christine...
..he had been the quickest around till we got to messing with chris...
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That makes a great big pulley (low rpm) turning a tiny little pulley (hi rpm) moving a 16" wheel faster (rpm) than it would any other way. I say go for it. You would need to do . . .Softest contra spring you can find. Even cut one. Then you could keep even lighter rollers and still keep below the pipe (7.5k or so) at cruise because you are hitting a shorter gear faster. Then your pipe can work for top end if you find the gearing. Did you see The Worlds Fastest Indian? U could maybe run a 14 or 15 to one final drive giving almost no drag. Crazy sh*t right?
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..it makes sense tho...that 16" is the key...
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..my buds got a sweet lil oem zx...itll scat!!..
...josh actually did the de restrict onnit back in th day...
..he's sweatin the 01 ppl and nina and christine...
..he had been the quickest around till we got to messing with chris...
If you get a zx ... I have an engine 4 u... I have an engine that will be 75.2cc, 11.3:1 compression, 9-11.2k powerband (w/ the right pipe) Thinking the Jw infinite baffle. Custom painted, custom cut cvt cover, ported/polished/flow dirrected cases/100% street race scoot engine for the low low price of your engine in fair trade + the price of parts. (weel wurk sumptn owt) I got my zx for 350.00 4-5 years ago. If you get it maybe 2=3 dead scoots for a zx. Their not worth much as a stocker...300-900. A tuned scoot is worth MILLIONS more. I'de almost buy a tuned one if I trusted anyone to tune it......................OOOOOPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSS! (Bad sales tactic) Burn the witch!
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..it makes sense tho...that 16" is the key...
ZACTLEE!
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Very informative links zombie. I have some pics of my old(factory) piston. Quality sucks but it's the best I can do.
Lots of pitting on the top of cylinder. I assumed this was from the top ring that broke into pieces. I even found a pieced lodged in the top. Not a whole lot of damage to the piston. It's like the rings just never seated properly. Hell, I don't know. Tell me what you guys think.
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219121002.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219121002.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219121001a.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219121001a.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219121001.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219121001.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219120958.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219120958.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219120952.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219120952.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219120951a.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219120951a.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219120949a.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219120949a.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219120949.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219120949.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/th_0219120948.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/liftman87/?action=view¤t=0219120948.jpg)
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Just barely too lean. Piston got too hot, melted over the top ring at the exhaust jamming the ring till it broke at hi rpm. One more jet would have got it. Or a forged piston could have handled it. These cheap cast pistons just cant handle long high rpm runs unless you tune it down, and that is the opposite of what we do. I found a 47.5mm Yamaha piston that works in the Malossi. Just gotta hone out .5mm. I get the piston for $8.00 from Japan. It's a bit taller/longer so a base spacer or stroker is needed, but it is the build I am working on now. I'll keep you filled in. Ps The piston is from an out of business shop liquidating his stock...14 pistons left.
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Lean huh? I hated that stock carb. I never found any jets that fit it and the needle had no adjustment. I love my Dellorto.
What do you see that tells you that?
Where do I buy one of those Yamaha pistons? For $8 I'd like to order one. I have an extra(scored) Malossi cylinder I can have bored.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-TRAIL-GT80-OVERSIZE-PISTON-47-5mm-CI-GT80PS-/130566941165?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e666569ed (http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-TRAIL-GT80-OVERSIZE-PISTON-47-5mm-CI-GT80PS-/130566941165?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e666569ed)
The skirt on Slingers piston is still good showing it had good oil/clearance. The dome is not melted showing no detonation. Only the edges of the piston are melted showing extreme burn heat caused by lean WOT running. The edges are most prone to heat as there is NO material there to spread/dissipate the heat. Forged pistons are more dense, and dissipate better. I have taken to drilling "dimples" along the edge of the dome in front of the exhaust port to draw the heat away from that area. So far so good
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Ps... If you have a drill press you can hone the .5mm yourself saving 50-60 bucks. Use a NEW hone, and set the piston/Cyl. clearance to.001"
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=Cylinder+hone&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11643595508281217831&sa=X&ei=TMZBT7nQGpO2tweA1JzUBQ&ved=0CFMQ8wIwAA (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=Cylinder+hone&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11643595508281217831&sa=X&ei=TMZBT7nQGpO2tweA1JzUBQ&ved=0CFMQ8wIwAA)
That's the hone I use. Got one from Ace Hardware for about 20.00. I also use PB Blaster as cutting oil. Watch a few honing vids, and have at it! If you go too far get a 48mm piston.
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Ps... If you have a drill press you can hone the .5mm yourself saving 50-60 bucks. Use a NEW hone, and set the piston/Cyl. clearance to.001"
Most definitely
Do keep us posted on that build
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Waiting on a crank as we speak!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Elite-DIO-44mm-stroker-crankshaft-SYM-Arnada-KYMCO-ZX-Super-Fever-/330686567573?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4cfe749495 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Elite-DIO-44mm-stroker-crankshaft-SYM-Arnada-KYMCO-ZX-Super-Fever-/330686567573?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4cfe749495)
I always buy from Jiangwayne on this stuff but look at the price here. Same crank
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..cleaning kitty...
..oil pump disabled...removed shaft, plugged and secured tubing...
:)
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..pump..not!
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..malossi breathin'...
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..this sucks!...
;D
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I gotta say Slinger... Giant leaps forward Bro! KUDOS
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..thanx z!!
;)
..i'm taking my time, trying to do it right..lol..
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Man... You really shouldn't post nude picts. of your girl like that.
Where is that box of tissues...
-
..we have an open relationship..
..if not, she'd kick my ass!!...
:o
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LMAO @ the last cpl post........
:o :D :D :D
I know your getting antsy to ride another kitted scoot after the ride with Bart.. :D ;)
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Bart huh! you told me you were working!
-
...Bart (simpson) is what i'm calling my newest s9..
..it definately aint a girly scoot...
:o
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Still... You SAID you were working!
Dow chika dow wow ta ta Dow chika dow wow
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Hey zombie,
You're sure this piston will work with the stock rod, crank and a malossi cylinder(Honed out to piston size of course).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-TRAIL-GT80-OVERSIZE-PISTON-47-5mm-CI-GT80PS-/130566941165?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e666569ed (http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-TRAIL-GT80-OVERSIZE-PISTON-47-5mm-CI-GT80PS-/130566941165?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e666569ed)
I'm thinking about going ahead and ordering one.
Added: For my people not the ZX
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I works fine. You have to raise the jug 3mm, and shave the skirt 3mm to work on a stock crank, That would be 4 base gaskets GLUED together, or a shim For 10 bucks it was well worth the time to shim
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What did you use to shave the skirt?
Maybe I should sneak into the machining lab at my school and throw it on a mill :D :D :D
I took a machining class in there last semester
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I have a belt sander that I invert into the work bench. Use at most 60grit to slowly take it down. 120-200 to finish.
A mill is always better if you can get on it. I sort of "Flinstones" everything.
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I'm a dremeling fool.. ;)
Gotta love the dremel. ;)
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Now I'm pretty handy with an angle grinder my friends ;D
I guess I could just scribe 3mm on the skirt and have at it.
A dremel would be much more forgiving :)
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A dremel would be much more forgiving
I love my dremel.. Cut the cyl skirt right up.. :D
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Okay, I ordered it. My ZX might be getting jealous :D. I'm neglecting her.
One more thing. Where do you find more base gaskets? Will OEM work or should I just make my own out of gasket material?
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Okay, I ordered it. My ZX might be getting jealous :D. I'm neglecting her.
One more thing. Where do you find more base gaskets? Will OEM work or should I just make my own out of gasket material?
Chopchop...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Elite-S-SR-SA50-1994-2001-50mm-Head-Base-gasket-set-/370573900029?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&vxp=mtr&hash=item5647ecf8fd (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Elite-S-SR-SA50-1994-2001-50mm-Head-Base-gasket-set-/370573900029?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&vxp=mtr&hash=item5647ecf8fd)
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..chop-chop fo sho bro...
..i bought 6 br8hs and 6 br8hsa..3 days ago...
..think i got 3 clean left...
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I used a 2mm aluminum spacer with tissue paper/Indian Shellac for the base on the Ruima, and the same 2mm stock + 1 gasket on each side for the Malossi. The squish set itself at .4mm. I haven't even started it yet...
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He is a good shop for BASIC parts... Just not jugs/pistons/cranks.
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/Indian Shellac
...that's what i cldnt remember....
i asked batman about that..remembered you talkin about that sh** back in th day...
-
It works like Omc Perfect Seal or Honda Bond. Good for EVERYTHING. Even instead of Blue loktite
-
It works like Omc Perfect Seal or Honda Bond. Good for EVERYTHING. Even instead of Blue loktite
..hey.z..got me a new laptop..heh??
..i'mmm baaaack!...lmao!
-
..i'mmm baaaack!...lmao!
OH FK......"Theeeeeere Heeeerrreee".... :D :o :D
-
The squish set itself at .4mm. I haven't even started it yet...
That may be a nasty low squish....
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..YEAH..WITH SOME 2TS!!
-
Can i get a m.f'n HOOAH.. ;)
HOOAH.. ::)
Getting a yard of em to boot... ;D
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Can i get a m.f'n HOOAH..
..umm wtf is that..
u want one?...i get u one bro!!...
-
The marine call? HOOAH!????
(i think that's the spelling) ::)
-
..got it!...
..hooah!!...
..i support my military!..
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Al Pacino does it better than i can.... :D
(scent of a woman)
-
Hahhaha :D :D :D
You guys are awesome!
-
Al Pacino does it better than i can....
..well, i was just reading it, ssssooo.......
-
Hahhaha
You guys are awesome!
..word up peet!
;D
-
YEah, hearing it is a lil different than reading... :D
What's going on Pete?
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What's going on Pete?
Oh you know, just sittin around having wet dreams about your scoots :D ;)
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..i have close emotional as well as physical encounters with all my scoots...
:o
..yus i do!...
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Oh you know, just sittin around having wet dreams about your scoots
Now that could be a sticky subject.... :D :D :D
-
..yus i do!...
ANNNNND i see your wanting to throw another in the orgy pile.
She is purty though, i give you that. ;) ;D
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..yeah, i'm after it...
..lmao..and if y aint from around here y probly dont get it!...
:o
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I told ya.. you never have to many Kymco's...
I thought kitty would mend your broken heart. :(
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That S9 sure is puurdy. I'll bet she's got a purdy mouth too. :D :D :D
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Makes you SQUUUEEEL like a pig..... :D
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..kitty is still fine..taking daily care of her..just enough...
..had 10 irons in the fire and been busier than a one-armed paper-hanger th last few weeks...
..thisn will probably to myrtle beach, bro....
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I'm lost... who's kitty?
-
...weeee...all th way home???
..or the ned beatty way...lmao!!!
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I ment mending the heart over christine's depature..
Oh, i'm sure that lady would love the beach.. :D
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I'm lost... who's kitty?
Your in Kitty's thread.. ;)
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I'm lost... who's kitty?
..sorrey pete..i name all my scoots..kitty is my 01 ppl that i put this motorio kit on...
;)
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I got cha... I'd love to take my people to the beach
Maybe this summer
-
..thatd be an awesome back-road ride...
..back in th day, it was th only way...no freeways...
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I don't know about that. It would be an adventure that's for sure ;D. I'd have to throw it in the back of a truck. I've already been planning a trip to Wilmington to vist my friend.
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Maybe a NC members Kymco forum scooter ride to the beach. That would be awesome.
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Hell yeah, Great idea right there... ;)
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Zombie would have to come up here and join us
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I'm packing while I post... If I leave in one hour I should be there by mid june