KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Yager GT 200i => Topic started by: quinnmallory on January 29, 2012, 05:58:43 PM
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My scooter repairist said to start putting Supreme gas in it. Said it would make it last longer and was better for it. Can someone break down for me how the higher-priced gas is better for the Yager than the regular stuff?
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No idea, and I am skeptical. Most scooter engines are not high-compression engines, which are what benefit from higher octane gasolines. The higher octane fuels actually "burn slower" in a lower-compression engine, so while they certainly won't harm your Yager's engine, chances are it's not going to help any, either.
One thang that confuses dealers, mechanics, etc., is the fact that the Asian scooters often come with documentation that indicates the recommended octane rating measured in RON, whereas in the U.S., we don't use that rating. We use (R + M) / 2 -- which is (RON + MON) divided by 2 -- or AKI (anti-knock index), as it is also known. Our ratings are slightly smaller numerically than equivalent RON ratings.
Wikipedia has a good article or seven on world octane ratings, and the whys and wherefores. Find out what Kymco recommends for the Yager in RON, and convert that to AKI, and use that fuel, and you'll be good to go.
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Though I'm not a mechanic, my dealer suggested premium gas because the Yager is fuel injected engine. Not sure if that matters or not, but I've been following the suggestion. I spend no more than $7.00 US to fill my tank which will last a full week if I commute everyday (Monday - Friday), but in the winter months I can go two weeks or more between fill ups.
-Wolf
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Though I'm not a mechanic, my dealer suggested premium gas because the Yager is fuel injected engine. Not sure if that matters or not, but I've been following the suggestion.
Well, I've presented enough here that if you want to research it and possibly save yourself some money while not affecting either mileage or performance, you can do that, if you want. If you just want to believe what the dealer or the mechanic tells you, that's okay, as well.
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Thanks, jp...you've given enough info for me to do some research on it. Appreciated.
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Though I'm not a mechanic, my dealer suggested premium gas because the Yager is fuel injected engine.
You need a new dealer.
Premium gas is needed in high compression engines, 10.0:1 or more.
Maybe he just hinted at getting better quality fuel.
If you have fuel issues, it's because of junk or water in it, just change the
fuel station you use.
You DO NOT need premium gas and there's nothing that it will do for your Yager, unless
higher octane number gas (at that station) is also a higher quality gas (we sometimes
have that here).
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Thanks for the input. I think my only issue is that that the Kymco Yager user manual says to use an octane of 91, and the Supreme has here in Calif is 91 for the Supreme stuff (80-somthing for regular unleaded). But if it doesn't really matter, I'd opt for the cheap stuff over the boutique gas any day.
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Thanks for the input. I think my only issue is that that the Kymco Yager user manual says to use an octane of 91, and the Supreme has here in Calif is 91 for the Supreme stuff (80-somthing for regular unleaded).
[tears hair out]
I rode 91 yesterday.
91 what? Miles? Yards? Feet? Kilometers? Inches? Minutes, perhaps?
See, the number means very little unless you know in what units something is being measured. If I told you it was 28 degrees outside without telling you which scale I'm using, it could be very hot, or quite cold, right?
From earlier this thread:
One thang that confuses dealers, mechanics, etc., is the fact that the Asian scooters often come with documentation that indicates the recommended octane rating measured in RON, whereas in the U.S., we don't use that rating. We use (R + M) / 2 -- which is (RON + MON) divided by 2 -- or AKI (anti-knock index), as it is also known. Our ratings are slightly smaller numerically than equivalent RON ratings.
Put another way, the world uses three different "octane yardsticks" for measuring octane in gasoline (commonly -- there are probably others as well, but these are the ones you can expect to find at gas pumps); Taiwan uses RON, whereas the U.S. uses AKI. The AKI yardstick's marks are slightly farther apart than the RON yardstick's marks, meaning that measuring the same thing, the AKI number is slightly lower than the RON number.
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Yep.
Premium gas here is 98 and 100 octane (EU), and 95 is the regular stuff.
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Yep.
Premium gas here is 98 and 100 octane (EU), and 95 is the regular stuff.
Guessing that your country's measurement standard is RON, rather than MON or AKI.
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[tears hair out]
I rode 91 yesterday.
91 what? Miles? Yards? Feet? Kilometers? Inches? Minutes, perhaps?
...
Yeah, I got all that...I was just confused by the Yager manual...but as I said, I'd rather go with the cheaper, non-91 octane fuel anyway, so no biggie.
As for me, I'd never ride the 91. It's one of the most hated freeways in SoCal. Edge traps everywhere.
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Yeah, I got all that...I was just confused by the Yager manual...but as I said, I'd rather go with the cheaper, non-91 octane fuel anyway, so no biggie.
As for me, I'd never ride the 91. It's one of the most hated freeways in SoCal. Edge traps everywhere.
But now you know to look for those magic letters: R O N
Those were appended to the octane number recommended in my Kymco manual. I'm hoping they're there in yours, too.
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Basically octane rating is the fuels flash point. Higher octane requires a stronger ign. source. Most scoots have very unfinished parts inside the engine, and therefore tend to attract or hold alot of carbon. This carbon can act as a glow plug pre-igniting the fuel mix causing detonation or ping. Higher octane fuel resists pre ignition. Higher octane has a few other side benefits. Increased mileage, and less carbon residue. I have proven this out to MANY friends. You will SAVE money by spending more per gallon as your mileage will increase. Try it on three tankfulls to prove it yourself. Also most new engine controls have knock sensors to retard timing when pre-ignition is present. That is how they can recommend lower octane fuel. The obvious draw back is performance/ mileage suffer.
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Basically octane rating is the fuels flash point. Higher octane requires a stronger ign. source.
... or higher compression, which is what octane is really about. Pre-detonation is a destructive force, and would be especially so in a single-cylinder engine that had a high compression ratio, trying to burn fuel with too low an octane rating. However, that isn't the case with our Taiwanese beauties.
Again, 91 RON = 87 AKI. There's just no getting around that fact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating).
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I just figured out that my DT300 has 10,8:1 compression.. I should probably use premium gas.. and
I figured I'm home free when I got rid of my Kawasaki with 11.3:1.. >:(
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My dealer specifically told me to use regular. Believe it or not you get better mileage with the regular. I've got 4000 miles on my Yager with no problems. My old Chinese Scoot I had to run Premium in.
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I am running 10.7:1 in an 87.5cc. NO plans to run Reg. no matter what the guy says.
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The book for my Yager says the engine has 11.2:1 compression ratio and requires 91 Research Octane Number fuel. The "placard" inside the helmet stowage (under the seat) says 87 r+m/2 fuel. That is the end of it as far as I am concerned since the engine runs well and does not ping/knock under any circumstances.
Karl
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I never noticed this before.
(https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pSZs87RUsAzFl3CBq0nAIDK5XfIMAUgpMw15IYD2avaTIRc1YZ3ws2QCL2JuIYDOXN_yOt2QqD9HAsgvexGtEUQ/IMG_0262small.jpg?psid=1)
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Put it in the simplest of terms. You get what you pay for. Would you rather give your family pond water or bottled water. Both quench your thirst. One is cleaner than the other so what do you think is better? SAME with fuel. Higher octane is more refined, and contains LESS impurities. It is the impurities that create problems. Octane is not added to fuel. Impurities are removed to increase octane rating.
It's a Friggin' no brain'er!
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I am NOT gonna say a single word ever again on the subject of gasoline fuel.......ever.....EVER!
Karl
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As an aside I have heard it said that because premium gas sells much more slowly at most stations that it is subject to more condensation and resulting impurities than the more quickly selling regular gas . Most pumps now have filters to aliviate this , but how often are they changed and how effective they are is a concern .
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That is a VERY good point Juice. There are certain Marinas that don't sell alot of fuel BECAUSE of lack of proper maintenance on their equipment. Takes along time to lose the stigma.
Crossbolt... Come on One more Fuel post PLEASE! Double dog dare!
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I am new to scoots (and don’t even have one yet), but maybe I can add something useful here.
Gasoline is rated by specific energy or heat energy and there is no appreciable difference in that between regular grades and premium grades.
What those two grades of gasoline do differently is they have different set points in which they detonate and different burn times after detonation. Regular grades detonate earlier and burn faster than premium grades. Using an octane either higher or lower than the design point of the engine might even mess with your engine’s timing.
What it all boils down to is that using premium gasoline in an engine that is rated for regular not only won’t improve its performance; it is likely going to degrade it.
The belief that it will help to clean out your engine if you occasionally fill up with premium gasoline is also untrue. It may have been true 40 years ago, but the oil refineries have long since made the detergent additives the same in all grades.
So basically it’s best to use exactly what octane the manufacturer recommends in your scoot – or even in your lawn mower for that matter.
Hope this helps…
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Welcome aboard Poots! You sure pick a hot topic to post on. There are hundreds of posts all over the forum on this subject. I can scream from the heavens on the experiences I have had w/ different fuels, and fact finders can shout even louder.
Your points on what an engine is designed to run on are valid. However... The topic of degradation of both fuel, and engine play an important role. Climate/fuel handling, and storage/variances in engine tolerances (when NEW) all play a role as well as many other factors. Too much for a scooter rider to even care about. My firm rule of thumb is buy the best fuel the station offers, and if that is not good enough start blending your own w/ Avation fuel/C12/racing fuel. The ONLY scoots/engines that will require custom blends are out of the every day users realm anyway. It is strictly for those that know how fuel interacts/burns. Burn rate is the only concern as that is what creates power. Some engines respond to a faster burn rate, ie: lower octane, and others self destruct due to low octane. It all depends on the environment or conditions involved in the end use.
Cheap gas is like a cheap escort. I don't bother with either.
How do you like me now!
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So basically it’s best to use exactly what octane the manufacturer recommends in your scoot – or even in your lawn mower for that matter.
No, no, no -- one size fits all, 87 RON is the same as 87 AKI, etc. etc. You rocket surgeons just wanna confuse everyone with your pointy-headedness! Now let me get back to Rush Limbaugh!
1/2 ;)
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What Poots said. There. That's the last.
Karl
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No, no, no -- one size fits all, 87 RON is the same as 87 AKI, etc. etc. You rocket surgeons just wanna confuse everyone with your pointy-headedness! Now let me get back to Rush Limbaugh!
1/2 ;)
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Rush is my anti Christ hero! Oxymoron huh? Same with trusting cheap gas...
PLEASE leave the moron part alone.
HI HO SILVER LINING - JEFF BECK WITH LYRICS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StNY8P2UILs#)
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High compression does not mean you need to use higher octane (it did in the old days).
It all depends on how resistant the engine is to knock. With the high faluting computers
we have today they can tune the "squish band" on the engine and shape the combustion
chamber to reduce or eliminate knock.
Maybe he was referring to the "premium" brands of gas. The Fed's mandated a certain level
of detergent in the fuel but some manufacturers decided that wasn't enough so they voluntarily
add more to keep your engine sparkly clean. I have heard of some Yager's having trouble with
the injector clogging so it might make sense to add some seafoam, techron or startron to the
fuel. The alcohol in the gas is not great for a tiny little engine...
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Though I'm not a mechanic, my dealer suggested premium gas because the Yager is fuel injected engine. Not sure if that matters or not, but I've been following the suggestion. I spend no more than $7.00 US to fill my tank which will last a full week if I commute everyday (Monday - Friday), but in the winter months I can go two weeks or more between fill ups.
-Wolf
Wolfman, I have no faith in our dealer.
Richard L.
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Well I just brought my new baby home today and I found this label on it;
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/MotoRandy123/Yager/DSCN1918.jpg)
So I'm using 87. Low octane gas burns quicker so helps a large piston engine light better. I'm
guessing the Yager motor started as a 125 and is bore out and stroked to 175 so it should qualify
as a big bore...