KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: blue on November 28, 2011, 10:10:07 PM
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mmmm bike was to cold to start after work today and the kick start almost didnot do it.it not working that good anyone ever have bad time with kick start.
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Hey blue,
I have had problems with this myself. What exactly is it doing? I had an isue with the gear that comes into contact with the drive face it should have splines that cause it to come forward when rotated with half moon gear but if there are and chips or other damage to these teath then it will slip and not work properly. I would check this first.
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Everything looks good its just stiff and hard to kick over.almost like it needs oil or grease on it.But I was always told not to put eather on it because it might get on the drive belt.
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Give it a good clean, get all tgpe built up dust out of all the teeth. Clean the shaft that the gear runs on. You can use a little grease, sparingly. The grease does catch the dust, but with regular cleaning, it should be good.
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When i had a problem with my elec start i would have to kick it 10 plus times before it would start, after a few days i found that giving it 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the throttle at the same time made it start first kick, i know this can be akward leaning over scoot to turn throttle and kicking the same time....
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Like I always say a clean scoot is a happy scoot.took the kick start off gave it a darn good cleaning and it works bretty good now.
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I have to order another crank case cover. The gasket is fine and the kick start mechanism looks fine, but I broke the metal casting that holds the actual thing that starts the motor. I was stroking it down pretty hard and it was cold out and electric wouldn't start it, weak battery (later to find out plugged jet) and all of a sudden, there was no connection. Pulled open the crank case and had a crack in the metal casting. Sucks.
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if you have all the peaces JBweld well work.
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I thought about maybe being able to weld, but I would have to squezze the crack back together. The problem is that the half moon thing makes contact, but what it makes contact with is able to move without it's teeth catching and just pushes it to the side. I have thought about rigging it in some fashion as to jerry weld it and then stick maybe a toothpick in to make up for the extra space, but I don't want to risk not having a kick start when I need it.
I will take a picture if I remember in the next couple of weeks and post it. I have some variator sliders on order at my local scoot shop so I will be opening it up again here soon.
thanks though
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well if you have teeth broken off its better to get new .because you might brake more then what you want to brake.
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I took the cover off my people 50 4t. I believe all 50 cc kymco trannys are built the same way. From what I saw in there, the kickstarter mechanism seems quite fragile and seems to be designed to be used occasionnally only. Also, if you look at it properly, you will notice that the halfmoon gear is quite small, compared to the gear on the variator. This means that a full swing of the kickstarter will only rotate the engine 1/6 or maybe 1/4 of a revolution. Remember, a 4 stroke engine must go two revolutions for a complete cycle. So, I believe it is normal to go through many kicks before getting the engine started. Dont go crazy about it, just keep on gently kicking it with the throttlr slightly opened till its starts.
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for some reason my scoot startes great with one kick. then after it worms up and if It shots down and I have to kick start again it well not kick over I have to use the elc. start. (Weird) when its cold and I start it the frist time the kick works after that it well not.
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So I ordered a new variator cover/CVT Cover or what ever that cover is called that goes over the belt and variator. It all started with a few posts back where I mentioned I had cracked the metal casting while trying to kick start it one cold day.
Day 1: Using my old parts (kick start parts) I put them in the new cover, I have tension on the half moon and it makes contact and rotates great. I put it on and now my electric start is having trouble starting her up and when I put it on originally, one kick and it started. Now that I have kick started it, my electric start is working hard or not even working.
Day 2: one kick turned into 7 and electric start won't turn it. Once started with kick, I go to work. It sits for 9 hours and electric start won't turn it over and then took a lot of kicks to get it going, barely.
Got it home, let it sit and went to try it again. I kicked it start and I heard a metal bumping noise. I turn it off, and start it (hard) with the electric. Same noise. I take off cover and took out the contact spindle? that connects to the half moon. Cover back on and it my electric start was hard, turned it off and waited a minute and electric start fired it right up.
Okay, now the questions :) I appreciate any help.
I ordered it from my Scooter Shop and it appears to be an exact copy except for some extra markings on the inside that bear no weight on its function. All screw holes line up and all is good. I did not wind the spring anymore than just giving it some tension which it already has once you line the moon up to the correct position to gear (spindle). Looking at the teeth on the moon and the gear, it just shows normal wear and there are no major chips (light scratches only) and the same for the moon.
I had to go buy a new retention ring that holds the jump start to the outside ($0.60, no big deal), there is a small amount of play (minimal), but I never paid attention to know if it was there before this. Would having the wrong size retention ring (regarding thickness) cause any problems?
I just need advice if I have overlooked something. Just trying to get my scoot ready for the winter. I know a lot of text with few questions, but I just wanted to be detailed as could be so that you can picture what I am looking at. I could take pictures if needed, but I don't have a way to record sound. Low tech over here. >:(
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looks you and me are in the same boat Greagle. Im haveing some what the problem. I did have to replace most of the red wire that comes from the battery to were it conects to the elc. starter because it was all burned up.I beleave it just got dirty and rusty and was not working good.now im just
waiting to get a new battery or kick start gears what ever come frist.
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Time to clean my carb again next Tuesday, will check the wires. Just seems weird that all of a sudden I have a problem with just installing a new cover. Will post what I find here.
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Did you install a new cvt cover gasket? That is important in spacing the gear correctly. You MAY need two. Cases do differ. Also you have to grease the jump start shaft before installing it. Finally the spring needs on full wind around to be tensioned properly. That should set it straight.
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Like Zombie said, i sounds like maybe the new cover is maybe not exactly the same depth and the kick start mech is not connecting/dis onnecting properly to me. If it was maybe a few mm deeper or the gaskets were different or missing then the starter bendix for the elec starter would not sit correctly either.
It could also just be pure co-incidence and not be related to the cover but is maybe some other issue. Sounds like the cover or set-up of the engagememt of the starter gear tho.
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I didn't install a new cover gasket, I looked at my old one and it looked alright not damaged and still has its shape. I was afraid of that, it being a little to shallow. On tuesday, I will be cleaning the carb and changing gear and motor oil, and replacing roller weights, while I have it off I will lay the two cases beside each other and see if I can tell a difference, will rig something measure it.
I didn't grease the cogs, but hit it with a quick squirt of WD40 and I didn't realize I need to rotate the spring one more revolution, I started to, but didn't see a good way to do it and the spring was coiling up under the cog when I did try and got it about half way, that is why I figured it didn't need. The kickstart, comes back up without hesitation as it is right now. but if the tension is critical then will give her another spin.
I will try to remember to take some pics on Tuesday, thanks for the advice, will post here what I find.
As I had posted, I took the spindle out so that it wouldn't make contact, but this morning my electric start wouldn't do anything and my headlight wouldn't even come on like it normally does when starting. That battery is only 6 months or so and I got a good one, not a cheap one. I put the charger on it and it still never turned over, I had to take off cover and put the spindle back in to kick it, so that I could get to work.
Thanks again for the thoughts.
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If the battery keeps losing charge it could well be the volt regulator/rectifier is faulty or on its way out, happened to my A50 last year. Battery would only keep charged enough to start for 4-5 days, less if i used my lights tho.
If the covers measure the same then it may well be you installed something a little off or mis-fitted something somewhere and thats causing the issue? May be worth stripping it all out and refitting it again just in case if you have time, a pain i know but at least it will rule that out. Seems weird that both elec start and kick start are now not right tho, that to me would suggest the casing rather than mjs-fitted components ???
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I said I would post after doing some trouble seeking, I meant to work on the scoot and ended up building a corn hole set and started building a computer desk, plans are to do this next Tuesday, will post then.
(http://www.brandonmbrown.com/pictures/100_1714.bmp)
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Just testing out the picture posting options
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Nice work! Whats that triangle thingy for? ;D
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Whats a corn hole set?
Seriously, i never heard of it ???
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Whats a corn hole set?
Seriously, i never heard of it ???
its a bean bag game you play like horse shoes..................
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Nice work! Whats that triangle thingy for? ;D
It's just a framing square to make sure you have 90 degree angles and yep, Corn Hole is just a bean bag type game, popular with the college kids during football season when you have cold beer and a lot of people over :)
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its a bean bag game you play like horse shoes..................
Cool.
How you going to finish the desk surfaces greagle? Paint? Varnish?
I made one as my Craft & Design school project from mahogany and pine, a long time ago ( i had a ZX Spectrum 128k and b&w monitor!), got a grade 1 pass for it :)
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well i still have a 128 spectrum lol with tape
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well i still have a 128 spectrum lol with tape
Yes, with tape, and small screwdriver to adjust the tape head to try get it to load copied games, which it rarely did untill about the 50,000th attempt :D
Daley Thompsons Decathalon, Paperboy, Manic Miner, Frogger, Skool Daze, Lotus Esprit, Jet Set Willy, they dont make em like that anymore :D
A mate game me an emulator and a load of games a few yrs ago, took me back to being 11/12yr old all over again :)
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you forgot the dizzy collection. best games ever
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Now i need to go dig out that cd :D
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you can still download them on line
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How you going to finish the desk surfaces greagle? Paint? Varnish?
I went with some stain, the main goal of the desk was to be functional for me to use during classes. It was a quick build and I did make errors on it. It will take a beating though. Kreg Joints are stronger than I imagined and quicker. Carrying it downstairs to the basement, I dropped the base without the top or hutch and it rolled, but didn't phase it, hurt the dry wall though.
As you can see, I have already junked it up :)
(http://www.brandonmbrown.com/pictures/100_1731.bmp)
(http://www.brandonmbrown.com/pictures/100_1735.bmp)
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I think we are gonna get along famously. You jacked your own thread! I love it.... By the way. That triangle thingy is a Speed Square. A framing square is "L" shaped. ;D ;D ;D ::)
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So ... Tuesdays are my only day off and I meant to take it apart and look at it. I did change the gear oil, motor oil and took off Carb and took it apart and cleaned it. (took 64 minutes ... getting better) :)
However, I had spare wood from last weeks project, so I spent 2 hours doing that instead, Just one more high jack and I promise - going to look to at original problem.
I have noticed though, if I kick in the morning - one kick gets it going and no out of place rattling. Leaving work it takes like 4 kicks and I hear that noise. If i turn it off and use the electric start the noise goes away even though starter takes a few to get it locked on. It is possible that when I do kick, the electric start cog-a-ma-jig is sliding out of its place which would suggest that the new CVT cover is just a hair bigger, maybe?
(http://www.brandonmbrown.com/pictures/100_1738.bmp)
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(http://www.brandonmbrown.com/pictures/100_1743.bmp)
I think we are gonna get along famously. You jacked your own thread! I love it.... By the way. That triangle thingy is a Speed Square. A framing square is "L" shaped. ;D ;D ;D ::)
:)
I never really ever used the 'L' square on any of my adventures, I think that is why I posted it as a framing square. I use a 'T' religiously and the speed square. Thinking back, never even owned an official framing square.
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I knew a guy that could figure his pay check on a framing square. I think your crown gear on the kick start is hitting after the engine is started. Dis assemble/grease/add a new cover gasket
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I knew a guy that could figure his pay check on a framing square.
Now that is old school :)
I don't have a new gasket handy, but will clean and grease. Simple enough to work. Thanks and obviously, that did not occur to me. DoH!
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If you dont have a proper gasket you can use a washer (or 2) in the corners to space out the cover temporary till you get the gasket.
Maybe the thing-a-bob thingie (starter bendix :) ) is not sitting secure enough due to a slight variation in the new cvt cover? It would then rattle when you start it but then perhaps it sites itself better once you try use it? There should be a bush thing in the removable half of the cover for the bendix to locate into? If the hole looks too big and the bendix wobbles etc then the bush mest be missing. You can remove the variator and just pull the bendix out to try it in the new cover if youre not sure how it fits.
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Sorry for the bump on this, I can't believe it has been over a year since the topic started.
To run down the original start of the thread and close this and hopefully, someone finds it helpful. Originally, I bought a new CTV cover because the casing cracked during a -10 degree cold start where the battery wouldn't work. Cranked it hard and I broke it.
The rattling ended up going on for another set of great time. Until about 1.5 months ago until I (after 4.5 years) decided to check clutch springs and was advised to replace entire clutch. On inspection, the starter pinion was busted and was the result of said noise.
That was replaced along with the clutch. Still starts fine, I don't have that rattle and now I am around 1,600 days of riding my Kymco A50. I am around 25k miles on it and we are set to test a fifth winter here in Indianapolis, IN. I need to clean the carb here soon, haven't done that since mentioned in this post and adjust the idle a bit higher to get ready for it.
Thanks peeps, sorry been so long since I visited. Got caught up in school and such.
:)