KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: sissy mary on November 23, 2011, 03:43:27 PM
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Is anyone using a Malossi or Pollini CVT variator on their X500? My stock Kymco variator has locked up 2 times now, distroying my $200.00 belts both times. This time the variator broke apart inside the cover. I took the cover off and I could not see anyother damage, but I hope it did not damage the shaft, clutch & so on? I just read else where a guy's variator locked up at only 17'000 miles? Same as mine has 2 times. Shame on Kymco for putting out such a piece of crap variator. At least they could warn us about the problem. Or better yet do a recall & put a good one on! If anyone uses one of the above systems on anyother brand of scoot, I would like to know how they have worked out for them. I don't want to spend about $400.00 on a new variator only to have the same problems. Thanks in advance.
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I'm very happy with Malossi variator + belts. Did about 15.000 miles with them. Excellent take-off!
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What is your top speed with malossi multivar?
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With tailwind it almost maxes out completely. It doesn't effect topspeed much I think.
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Malossi is a great manufacturer. Their parts will outlast any of their competitors, and they are designed for your application vs. generic fitments.
http://www.spi-parts.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?manufacturer=91&q=spring (http://www.spi-parts.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?manufacturer=91&q=spring)
These guys are the new Malossi importer for the U.S. Mention the Zuma forums, and get a 10% discount. (maybe mention the Kymco forum, and get a plan started for us.)
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using malossi vario it has 15tkms-17tkms no problem what so ever just n0ticed some wear on the ramps n0t sure if it was there before or was it because of the silicone spray i used the last time i cleaned it. Is it safe to use silicone spray? Can't find a teflon based spray. Btw i clean my vario every 2tkms-3tkms
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DO NOT spray anything in there. That will wear your parts out in a FLASH. The belt WILL slip "cutting" into the aluminum Var. Same thing with oiling a cutting bit. I de-grease w/ acetone every time I service the cvt. The ONLY part that gets "lube" is the drive boss. A TINY smear of Hi temp. grease (ford wheel bearing grease is good) on the crank shaft, and another on the boss outside. Wipe it off, and there will be enough to get it "started". I explained in another thread how the boss/Var. are designed to self lubricate. Interfere w/ that , and you CAUSE wear. Did you know you can cut case hardened steel with cloth, and oil? (Ie: spray lubes)
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this is the first time i used silicone before i only use wd40. I don't spray it directly. Spray a little on my finger and apply it on the ramps. I started lubricatin it when i had problems with th dr. Pulley sliders
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Honestly, I wouldn't know why you would want to put grease in there. I road 15.000 miles+ without one drop of anything. Just install it the way it's meant to be and leave it.
Also, I have doubts about the dr. Pulley sliders. I had them myself but replaced for the rollers that came with the Malossi set. How can anything that slides be better or faster than something that rolls? I think they're a nice gimmick but are not worth the insane prices.
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sliders are better than stock malossi rollers. Accelarates quicker and top speed is higher. The only problem with the slider is they "roll" out of position faster if n0t lubricated. Can't find those kind of lubricant spray over here, n0t even in duty free shops or american stores.
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A bold statement sir! ;D
If sliders were better we'd all be sliding instead of rolling.
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sliders are better than stock malossi rollers. Accelarates quicker and top speed is higher. The only problem with the slider is they "roll" out of position faster if n0t lubricated. Can't find those kind of lubricant spray over here, n0t even in duty free shops or american stores.
If you're on the same variator - do the rollers allow more movement on the ramp for a higher speed? I don't understand how the same ramp would give different upper or lower speeds.
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this is based on my experience. A big diff on accelaration an plus 5-10kph on top speed. Even on the stock pulley. Sliders perform better than rollers have used then on may Gv 250 and super8 125.
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So I take it that some of you use Dr Pulley sliders in your Malossi variators? :-*
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sliders are better than stock malossi rollers. Accelarates quicker and top speed is higher. The only problem with the slider is they "roll" out of position faster if n0t lubricated. Can't find those kind of lubricant spray over here, n0t even in duty free shops or american stores.
How about powder graphite? Most locksmiths carry it
Truth about rollers is they don't really roll One side is softer aluminum (var) and the other is steel (ramp plate). The roller is "dragged " across the rougher surface of the var, as the other side "slides" on the harder steel. That is what creates the "flat spots" on rollers.
Truth about rollers is you can compare them to performance "hi lift" cams. They start out taller than the roller= finishes it's travel taller than a roller. Their design shape was necessary to achieve that height, NOT because that shape moves better inside the var.
I have used Malossi rollers in EVERY scoot I have owned in the last twenty years because their "composition" lasts longer, and causes less variator wear than any others I have tried.I recently tried Dr Pulley 7gr sliders, and put the Mal. rollers back in after (2-3) days. The sliders had Too much control over the engine I felt. Matbe 8gr will work but till then rollers for me
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'Truth about rollers is you can compare them to performance "hi lift" cams. They start out taller than the roller= finishes it's travel taller than a roller. Their design shape was necessary to achieve that height, NOT because that shape moves better inside the var."
That was supposed to say Truth about Sliders...
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So I take it that some of you use Dr Pulley sliders in your Malossi variators? :-*
The post above this one. I'm trying them.
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this is based on my experience. A big diff on accelaration an plus 5-10kph on top speed. Even on the stock pulley. Sliders perform better than rollers have used then on may Gv 250 and super8 125.
And this is whit the same weight sliders/rollers?
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will check grams but as far as i remember it's same as stock or just over or less 1gram. my target for my x500 is to reach 190kph on the speedo. Lol. Maybe with a lighter rider it could do that.
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will check grams but as far as i remember it's same as stock or just over or less 1gram. my target for my x500 is to reach 190kph on the speedo. Lol. Maybe with a lighter rider it could do that.
Well if that's all you want - adjust the speedo using a speedo-healer. :)
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So you can use Dr P's in a malossi variator? I have a new set of Dr P's, 31 gram I think waiting to be used. Had them in the stock variator for about 1500 miles when variator locked up. Put in stock thinking Dr P's may have been problem? But they are not, it's just that the stock variator is crap. >:(
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Yes you can Sissy! Use them at will.
Most Vars. are made of the same alloys. The BIG difference is in the "ramp" angle. It is another tuning realm completely, and unto itself. You may find rollers work for you or sliders may suit you better.
Figure what you WANT the scoot to do, and follow that trail.
Soooooo... What do you desire?
Ps... "pink lights"? That'll get you noticed!
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my sliders are the same weight with the stock rollers. there is a new product on the market called flying rollers. was inquiring about them and they said that they saw my complains regarding the sliders and that they would send me the flying rollers for testing and it's for free.
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About all I do is tour. I don't care about o-60 speeds, if my bike will do 115 MPG & such. I would like to lowwer the RPM's at freeway speeds by about 500 RPM's. I don't know if the Dr P's will do this or not? Keep us up-dated on these new type of sliders. I have never heard of them before? Pink Yes :-*
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my sliders are the same weight with the stock rollers. there is a new product on the market called flying rollers. was inquiring about them and they said that they saw my complains regarding the sliders and that they would send me the flying rollers for testing and it's for free.
OOOO OOOOO OOOO Pick Me!
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About all I do is tour. I don't care about o-60 speeds, if my bike will do 115 MPG & such. I would like to lowwer the RPM's at freeway speeds by about 500 RPM's. I don't know if the Dr P's will do this or not? Keep us up-dated on these new type of sliders. I have never heard of them before? Pink Yes :-*
Dr pulley will give you some confusing results here. They raise the Var quicker giving a slower feel until you apply throttle. Once you start applying they will increase the climb rate. So you wind up going faster to feel them working. So if you want better performance, and lower rpm's go (2)gr heavier than stock (sliders). That should keep the stock throttle feel, and change the torque curve at both top, and bottom end. If the idea of more throttle worries you then use rollers (1) gr heavier. One gram per roller = roughly 500 rpm. This applies across the board from take off thru top end. It will all be lower revs. I posted else where that the engine does NOT control the cvt. It merely sets it in motion. The cvt does control the engine. What you want out of the engine is set in the tuning of the cvt... Stiffer control spring= longer hold on higher gear. heavier rollers= less rpm.
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Thanks, 1 gram=500 RPM is good to know. I would like to set my freeway RPM's as close as I can to the maximum tourque level of the engine. So lowwering the RPM's about 500 or so would be nice. Are the RPM's of the stock variator the same at freeway speeds as with the melossi variator? What is the stock weight of the Malossi rollers? :-*
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i use 31g for the stock pulley 1 gram heavier than stock and 20g for the malossi same as the stock rollers. sliders rev higher or quicker off the line but have lower rpms on highway/top speed.
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Drifter has a good formula, and I would try the rollers that come w/ the Malossi Var. (ask the dealer for the weight).
The reason I suggest "try" them is w/ new ramp angles you don't know where the cruise rpm will be. New parts have new effects.
Just keep in mind (1) gram heavier = 500 rpm lower rpm at same speed.
If your dealer is a knowledgeable guy he may know what weight to include to meet "your" goal rpm. He will need to know what weight rollers you have now/what rpm you cruise at. Then knowing the Malossi he can "tune" it for you. Not too many know them tho. Most just sell.
You may end up buying 1 more set of rollers/sliders to get it "nailed". Sounds like a hassle but it's really quite easy to do.
Most Utubers show how to swap rollers in under 5 minutes>
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Yes, that's why I am asking these questions as they sell only. Meaning they don't know anything about variators, or anything else for that matter? >:( I have a new set of 31gr Dr Pulley's. I think I may use the stock roller's in the malossi, (when I can afford it). And then change to the Dr P's if I feel the RPM's are to high. :-*
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"I think I may use the stock roller's in the malossi, (when I can afford it). And then change to the Dr P's if I feel the RPM's are to high."
That's the trap I just warned you about! If you want to control the rpms ONLY change with the SAME type but different weight. If you swap rollers for sliders you are changing the characteristics, and the weight. So you will not know which did what. To be completely sure you must change one thing at a time. Even if you go sliders the first try you will have to by at LEAST one more set to dial in rpms. You cant swap types, and tune it in one shot.
Try SPI for a price Mention Zuma forum for 10% . I think by now he'd do the same if you mention the Kymco forum.
http://www.spi-parts.com/ (http://www.spi-parts.com/)
Not everything is on the site. He is the U.S. importer now for Malossi/Polini. So dont let him tell you he "aint makin'no money at that price."
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Thinking about it a little more, I don't think I could use my Dr P's anyway as they are 31 gram, and the melossi rollers are much less in weight and may be wider or more norrow. So if the melossi's are lets say 20 gram, then I would need 21 gram Dr P's. So mine are probably usless for the mellossi? If I want to drop my RPM's a little, then I may just go up 1 gram or so and stay with the melossi rollers? This may be more easy in the long run? :-*
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That's my point Sissy. They both act differently. If you dial it in using rollers (lets say 23gr rollers get your cruise where you want it) then go 2gr heavier on sliders, you "should" wind up at the same cruise with a better launch, and slightly faster top "gear". You may though have to buy ANOTHER set of sliders as this is just a ball park selection.
I've been playing w/ sliders for a few days, and think for my "tastes" I will stay w/ Malossi rollers. Sliders are just too much Var. too fast for my application. Other peop. LUV them.
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got a message from Tech Pulley and they said that they already shipped the flying rollers yesterday and will recieve it within the week. Can't wait to try then. But still having second thoughts on trying then on my malossi pulley.
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Man those look really neat. I like the tech of both the flying rollers & the clutch. Damn, now I have something else I want but no $ to buy them! :( Let us know how they work as soon as you get them. Since I am going to change out my variator, I would like to know if this is a good option or not? How much do they cost? As to using them on a malossi, if they are the correct size & weight they should work? Are the F-rollers you bought for the stock kymco variator, or for the malossi? Let us know? :-*
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not sure how much are they. They said they send it for free for testing. Even the shipping is free. Hope they send 2 sets, 1 for the malossi and 1 for the stock.
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Let us know as soon as you can. Really nice new design. What will they think of next? Where is this company from? :-*
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Right, Sissy, what will they think of next?! Just looked at those and their clutch. Clutch seems to work on the same principle as Dr. Pulley's. Acutally, the clutch and flying rollers look as though they could BE Dr. Pulley products. Wonder if they are related?
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http://www.techpulley.com/EN_FR_how_to_tune_it.html (http://www.techpulley.com/EN_FR_how_to_tune_it.html)
The concept is cool but I see a lot of potential problems. Too thin for long wear, perhaps jamming under the ramp ect. It is great they are sending some out for real world testing tho. Iron out the bug BEFORE getting a Bad Rap. I can see A LOT of forum sales if they work out...
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Yes, clutch seems to work the same as the Dr P Hit clutch? :-*
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Yes, Zombie. Well, the Dr. Pulley Co. says on their site that all their products are for RACING and/or DEMONSTRATION purposes only, not for street use, so they cover themselves. I wouldn't be suprised to see this company do the same. So similar, I wonder if it's a former Dr. employee or relative starting this new company. Or just Dr. rebadging themselves?
By the way, it's VERY nice to see you back around these parts!
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I appreciate the love Hoo! Thank YOU for all the (comroderrery) even spell check is baffled on that word. Most likely just a Knock off idea. I can see room for development but do like the concept. Sort of like those Spanish Vars. with the pencil type rods to push the var. Good idea, just needs more time.
I was thinking of balanced springs myself... No moving parts. Simply let centrifugal force do the work.
Damn... Another leak at the work shop! Someones getting fired this time... Foe Shooo!
You Scad! How do I un Post? :P
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I don't care what kind of clutch they come up with. Nothing can tame the POWER of my X BEAST! ;D :) ;) :D :-*
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MGM Cow Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlPENxzYwWY#ws)
I mixed you up w/ the toidies... Sorry
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got and installed the flying rollers on the malossi pulley. All i can say is OMG and WTF! Power band is incredible! It dosen't care if you're at 120kph and release the throtle and gas it again. But i think should have gone with a flyer a gram or 2 heavier too much rpm but on the positive n0te it d0sen't sound like a pump boat anymore. Will do more test and c0mpare it with the sliders but i doubt that it can match the performance of the flying rollers.
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Do they make them for the stock variator? And should you stay with stock weights, or go 1 gram higher like I did when I got the Dr Pulley's? :-* Also do an MPG study for us. :-*
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AWESOME!It sounds like they have the same "profile" as Dr. Pulley... Higher rpms at the same weight. Can't wait to hear more...
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they sent me same weight as the stock malossi rollers and stock rollers. Haven't tested the stock pulley with th FR yet. As for the mpg n0t minding it yet but it drop significantly. Due to wot!
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What's the latest on rollers? I am looking for better mpg. I seem to get @ 50mpg registering @75mph with some WOT. I weigh about 200 w/gear. Will heavier rollers do the trick? I hear acceleration suffers when you do this. Any info is apprectiated.
The reason I ask, I was reading the DT300 Forum and there are @100 posts for this subject. Didn't read them all, but interesting stuff!
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If you went 1gr heavier you would wind up running 150rpm+ - less at the same speeds. You could do the math to get the optimum rpm/cruise ratio. That and a Hi Energy Ignition coil/iridium plug, and good fuel. You will gain quite a few mpg. I'd guess +10% at least.