KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: Matty on October 18, 2011, 09:04:49 AM
-
Morning all
I have recently purchased a second hand agility 50 and am starting to think I may have bought a bit of a pup. Can someone help with a bit of diagnosis on what my (several) problems might be? I know little about engines, but am a DIY/pull-it-apart-put-it-together-again nut so will likely end up doing any work myself. Having said that, the bike is still under warranty.
When I got the bike about 3 months ago, it had done 1440km (now around 3500km). I suspect it had been in storage for a while, and may have been modded somehow, though the seller “couldn’t rememberâ€. To start with everything was running a-ok apart from the below:
Problem 1 – Acceleration on this thing is abysmal. I’m left for dead at traffic lights by people in lycra. Apart from being quite embarrassing, it’s quite dangerous. Having said that it tops out at 38mph on the speedo. Acceleration curve is rather odd – starts very slow and takes a long time to get to 20. 20-30 is not too bad and 0-30 takes about 16 seconds overall. Then at about 32mph, there’s a second “kick†in acceleration as if someone’s given me a bit of a push, and eventually it hits 38. Any ideas what might be going on? I’m not fussed about losing top end speed just need to improve acceleration. Best guess is someone has installed some funky rollers?
Anyway…having ridden the thing 20 miles a weekday for about 3 months now I’m starting to hit some different problems which may or may not have been exacerbated by the cold weather. They’re quite specific so can anyone help me with a diagnosis?
Symptom 1 – The bike is becoming hard to start, especially when it’s cold. Before the late cold weather, the bike would always start fine on the electric start. Now I seem to have to use the kick start more and more, and it usually takes 2 or 3 cranks to get the thing firing
Symptom 2 – Once the engine is ticking over from cold, for the first 10 seconds if I twist the throttle, the engine will dip and eventually cut out if I persist. After about 10 seconds, it will start moving ok (if slowly – see Symptom 3)
Symptom 3 – For the first 15 minutes of use, when I twist the throttle from standstill, the engine will dip first before picking up revs, then it accelerates as normal. After about 15 minutes, this more or less goes away
Symptom 4 – Occasionally (say one in every 20 rides) the bike will cut out when I hit the brakes hard, and sometimes will cut out at traffic lights when I come to a stop.
Hope that’s descriptive enough to allow a rough assessment. Here’s what I’ve tried so far:
-Replaced the spark plug. The old one had a fair amount of carbonation around it. The new spark plug made virtually no difference to the above problems
-Replaced engine and gear oil. Made no difference.
-Ran redex cleaner through it for about 8 tanks. No improvement (possibly worse?)
-Checked the air filter. Looks fine. Blew a bit of air through it.
-Took the top of the carb (I think). The rubber diaphragm looks perfectly clean and in good condition to me, but I didn’t look any further
-The fuel filter is full of fuel and I can’t see anything obvious in there but I have a replacement on order.
Questions:
- What is the most likely 2 or 3 things that all this could be?
- What order should I check them in when getting down to business? (ie. quickest/easiest/cheapest to hardest/slowest/most expensive would be a sensible order)
- Which of these things is likely to be covered by the kymco warranty? Is the warranty only for parts?
Like I said I think it may have been stored for a few months without use so there may be some varnishing in the carburettor/fuel lines/tank, but I can’t be sure – what is the easiest way to check this?
Any help much appreciated. Am looking forward to getting my teeth into this to learn a bit about motorbikes. Probably the start of my next DIY obsession…
-
Has the service been kept upto date by the dealer as if not your warranty made be void although some dealers may overlook it depends if they want the work/hassle, also if it was not the dealer that has done the derestriction they will not be happy trying to find a fault that may have been caused by the previous owner experimenting with various set ups, he may have also put a bigger jet in the carb as part of the derestriction and could be running rich/leen if not done correctly hence the start/running problems, have you contacted a kymco dealer its kind of a hard one do you let them know its been derestricted or not unless you know for sure they done it....
-
I don't know what "redex" is but after you change your fuel filter you should try some seafoam gas treatment . It will help clean your fuel system and stabilize the fuel . Good luck .
-
with everything going on with your scoot it sounds like you just need valves adjustment and take and clean the whole carb realy realy good. Im working on mine now to and I found out I need a new carb the acceleration pump on the carb is done for so mine well act up to because of it.and with the miles you say you have on the scoot your warrenty is over.warrenty is for less then 1100km miles.
-
Has the service been kept upto date by the dealer as if not your warranty made be void although some dealers may overlook it depends if they want the work/hassle, also if it was not the dealer that has done the derestriction they will not be happy trying to find a fault that may have been caused by the previous owner experimenting with various set ups, he may have also put a bigger jet in the carb as part of the derestriction and could be running rich/leen if not done correctly hence the start/running problems, have you contacted a kymco dealer its kind of a hard one do you let them know its been derestricted or not unless you know for sure they done it....
Hi Thanks Kisbee. Difficult to know the history as the seller doesn't want to help me, and the dealer has gone bust. I can only assume it's been derestricted as I don't think they hit 38mph without modification. CDI is original and uncut though. Haven't checked jets yet. Everything else looks stock
-
I think the warranty in the uk is 2 years unlimited miles although mine is probably void now anyway as i serviced scoot myself. (blue) are you sure its only 1100km what is it time wise if that milage is correct i cant see it being more than 3 months where you live....
-
I don't know what "redex" is but after you change your fuel filter you should try some seafoam gas treatment . It will help clean your fuel system and stabilize the fuel . Good luck .
Thanks Juice. I think redex is the same as seafoam. It's an injector cleaner that you put in your petrol tank to help clean out the gunge. Although I'm not sure how good redex is vs. seafoam.
Does anyone know of a better UK product than redex that might help? If I can clean without pulling the thing to pieces that would be great.
On the fuel filter front, I just got a cheapo one off ebay which said it was suitable for scooters. Is there much science to which filter I actually install, or will any one do?
-
with everything going on with your scoot it sounds like you just need valves adjustment and take and clean the whole carb realy realy good. Im working on mine now to and I found out I need a new carb the acceleration pump on the carb is done for so mine well act up to because of it.and with the miles you say you have on the scoot your warrenty is over.warrenty is for less then 1100km miles.
I think Kisbee is right on the warranty but I will check. 1100km sounds a little light. Pretty sure it's 2 years unlimited miles. Either way if they want to play hardball they can argue that I changed the spark plug. That said the first 2 services were done by a dealer so I could argue it a little.
Valve adjustment...is that a tough one to do and do I need any special tools? My reading suggests I might need a valve spring compressor tool. Is that true, or is it something I could actually bodge using standard tools?
The other one on my radar is cylinder compression - is there an easy way to check if this is the problem?
Thanks for all the help folks
-
You dont need a spring compressor thats only for removing the valves to adjust them you first need to remove the rocker cover to access them then you just need correct size spanner and a flathead screwdriver plus a set of feeler guages and the correct setting/gap which i can check for you in my manual, If you are going to attempt it yourself there are many videos on you tube that will help/show how its done just search (scooter valve adjustment) but i notice you say the bike has done liitle over 3000km i would not have thought the valves would be off by much at such low miles unless they were not set correct at manufacture but these guys on here have much more experiance than me with the agility's so i could be wrong....
-
Problem 1) I have this problem too, but that is because I have full derestrict but nothing done to variator. From start about 15 to 20 mph its ok but nothing fancy. from 20 to 30 mph it seems sluggish and then from about 30 to max out it seems to have decent go. my average is about 38 with hitting 40 on a godd day with even surface.
Some days mine is better and the hesistations are less noticeable, but those are ideal temperature days around 70 to 80 degrees. less than that or more than that it has struggles.
Change variator, roller wieghts, and torque spring (which most people do on here) and that should get better acceleration and make the lag between 20 to 30 be close to if not completely non existant.
Symptoms 1 - 3 I have all of those on some days when it is colder like you said. Not freezing cold but if it is in the 50 to 60 F range then it does actual hardheaded. This I think is a cross between needing a good carb cleaning and valve adjustment. I am at 6500km and have done neither. I will do them both this weekend. Since in the last week after my recent oil change my scoot has seemed to loss a little top end and acceleration is lacking.
Symptom 4 - I have had this happen twice. But it was after I recently fueled up and prior to fueling up the tank was close to empty. and I am currently attributing it to something occuring due to the low fuel prior to fill up. Maybe trash or something in the line. Since both times it tried to recrank but had to pump the throttle since it was acting like it wasnt getting fuel. But then once cranked had no issues at all.
Hope these help and give insight that you are the only one and most things happening sound like normal stuff just needs cleaning up. My scoot has had all oil changes and gear changes most times early on regular basis due to amount I drive and even have keep air filter clean.
Good Luck.
-
You dont need a spring compressor thats only for removing the valves to adjust them you first need to remove the rocker cover to access them then you just need correct size spanner and a flathead screwdriver plus a set of feeler guages and the correct setting/gap which i can check for you in my manual, If you are going to attempt it yourself there are many videos on you tube that will help/show how its done just search (scooter valve adjustment) but i notice you say the bike has done liitle over 3000km i would not have thought the valves would be off by much at such low miles unless they were not set correct at manufacture but these guys on here have much more experiance than me with the agility's so i could be wrong....
Thanks Kisbee. Checked youtube. Feeler gauges purchased and on their way. Like you say it is a newish bike. Will wait to hear any other thoughts before I tuck in! If not, sounds like an interesting weekend ahead...
-
Resolve.... another reason why your top end can vary from day to day is atmospheric air pressure ever driven a car up a hill/moutain when you get near top even tho your no longer climbing your vehicle can lack power this is because the air pressure has dropped and your engine is not taking as much air in as normal, the same happen's at sea level depending on weather time of year etc...
-
I think it just needs complete carburetor cleaning but use compressed air to clean all passages. I had some running problems, cleaned jets but had no improvements. blasting compr. air through all passages solved my poor running and stalling probs.
also try derestricting cdi if you said it have no cut on it.this is going to solve your acceleration problems if there is smooth vaiator boss installed.
check valve clearence but I think it's ok and see what jet size is in carb
-
I don't like seafoam or simmilar products on this type of engine and fuel supply. there is only on complicated electronic fuel injection.
there's nothing better than manualy cleaning complete fuel system on agility
-
Resolve.... another reason why your top end can vary from day to day is atmospheric air pressure ever driven a car up a hill/moutain when you get near top even tho your no longer climbing your vehicle can lack power this is because the air pressure has dropped and your engine is not taking as much air in as normal, the same happen's at sea level depending on weather time of year etc...
I understand that. But the last few days it has been somewhat struggling to hit 35 and accelerate. So thinking it needs a good cleaning. I mean going down a Hill it still hit 40ish and then held good at about 38 on the flat but from dead stop it took a bit to get going then got to 35 and kinda flattend out. I know part could of been weather. but I had no wind and a flat road so the way it felt just didn't feel normal. But I have been meaning to check valves and clean carb just never had time. But this weekend I have no plans and we will see. PLus on a few heels and small bridges it is horrid especialyl with wind. But I am at sea level for the most part and next to the river coming in from the ocean.
I rode my Wife's scoot today and probably through the end of the week. Hers is a 2 stroke 50cc Hyosung Prima. I love the acceleration and easy of keeping speed/lack of speed loss on the bridges. Hers has no dead spot and easily hits 38 and normally hits around 40 on average. I actually hit 45 going down hill today in hers. my stops at 42ish. Only withdraw is her gas mileage. This is only with derestriction. not variator changes.
-
Seafoam is not strictly a fuel injector cleaner , it is a fuel treatment and stabilizer . I have had very good results using it on all of my small engines regularly . I have had the same push type lawn mower for over 20 years , I used to have a battle every spring getting it started . I started using seafoam 1 oz per gal. in my gas container about 3 years ago and have not had a single starting problem with my mower , leaf blower , weed eater , or scooters since . There may be other products that will do , but i know seafoam works . If your Hyosung has a 2 stroke motor it is like comparing apples and oranges . Good luck .
-
I don't like seafoam or simmilar products on this type of engine and fuel supply. there is only on complicated electronic fuel injection.
there's nothing better than manualy cleaning complete fuel system on agility
Thanks woodcutter/kisbee/resolve. Yes it sounds like a full clean-out job. I'll check the jets installed whilst I'm at it.
I'd rather not derestrict it if possible because of the (sorry if this is about to be a newbie comment) insurance implications?? I'm only ever in city centres so acceleration is more important ot me than top speed.
It might be easiest just to replace the fuel lines. Where can I find the right size (bore) of tube I need? Other than just replacing as per existing. Thanks
-
If your Hyosung has a 2 stroke motor it is like comparing apples and oranges . Good luck .
OH I wasn't trying to compare them I know that is two different things. :)
That was more of a statement that this whole thread could have done without. I sometimes over explain things and when I said I was riding hers the rest of the week I felt the urge to describe what she had and I ended up stating why I liked hers for being 2 stroke.
-
To The OP I would say a good carb/fuel system cleaning and checking valve clearances would be your best bet
-
I have also decided not to derestrict as police in north wales are quite strict i will be the one who gets caught so im stuck at 31mph but it does me much easier than pedaling on my 16 mile round comute, i also have a peugeot kisbee same 139qmb gy6 engine although i prefer kymco quality peugeot have improved the engine performance but not sure how and it does accelerate much better and it can keep 31mph even up quite steep hills were as my agility will drop to 18mph on same hill, i would love to know what they have changed maybe rollerweights variator etc to get this performance so i could do it to my agility, it is close if not the same performance as any 2 stroke i have owned and i think derestricted would have no problem hitting 45mph plus even riding 2 up does not slow it down, but its the only positive thing i can say about the peugeot the agility has much better build quality....
-
Try running a tank of super unleaded through, super has extra cleaning agents that may help and reduce some of the flat spots.
-
Try running a tank of super unleaded through, super has extra cleaning agents that may help and reduce some of the flat spots.
Super unleaded? Is that the #98 higher octane stuff you get at most petrol stations? If so, that's all I've run it on from day one. Mainly because the performance is so poor it needs all the help it can get!
Separately, I think it was the air intake to the carburettor that was looks (it was a big plastic pipe with a diameter of around 40mm) which had come very loose. Might this have had an effect?
If so am I right to think that a carb clean would pick up any problems that would result?
How long am I looking at for a full carb clean as a complete newbie? I'd guess 6 hours? What's the "one" thing to be careful of? ie. the mistake that all newbies make??
Thanks again guys (and girls?)
-
Try running a tank of super unleaded through, super has extra cleaning agents that may help and reduce some of the flat spots.
Hi,
I have Agility 50 4t, as some of you guys complaining up-hill's, yes, same here I have a problem going up.
So, on sunday fill up tank with unleaded 98 and didnt had to try it out to see if it makes any difference yet.
Will keep you posted.
LATERS
-
Seafoam is not strictly a fuel injector cleaner , it is a fuel treatment and stabilizer . I have had very good results using it on all of my small engines regularly . I have had the same push type lawn mower for over 20 years , I used to have a battle every spring getting it started . I started using seafoam 1 oz per gal. in my gas container about 3 years ago and have not had a single starting problem with my mower , leaf blower , weed eater , or scooters since . There may be other products that will do , but i know seafoam works . If your Hyosung has a 2 stroke motor it is like comparing apples and oranges . Good luck .
cool. I just drain tank during winter storage on my chainsaw, lawn, etc cos there's plastic fuel tanks.I pour some fresh fuel and as petrol reaches carb it started right away. I woul do that on agility but it has steel casted tank though I haven't had problems starting it even on three months old petrol in tha tank.
-
What does your spark plug look like? Little engines really need a clean plug, and if it ran good at first and has gotten pickier - I think you need to pull the plug and see how it looks before you tear into the carb. Has your gas mileage also dropped?
-
cool. I just drain tank during winter storage on my chainsaw, lawn, etc cos there's plastic fuel tanks.I pour some fresh fuel and as petrol reaches carb it started right away. I woul do that on agility but it has steel casted tank though I haven't had problems starting it even on three months old petrol in tha tank.
you dont need to take out the tank, empty the tank via before fuel filter.
LATERS
-
MATTY i notice you say your air intake pipe was lose i wonder if this has made your engine run leen, do you know how long it was lose for as your engine would have been sucking in extra air giving you a leen mix, it would be like fitting a k&n or other sports filter without adjusting your fuel mixture which would mean your engine could have been running to hot for many months its just a thought does anyone else think this could have caused mattys problem....
-
MATTY i notice you say your air intake pipe was lose i wonder if this has made your engine run leen, do you know how long it was lose for as your engine would have been sucking in extra air giving you a leen mix, it would be like fitting a k&n or other sports filter without adjusting your fuel mixture which would mean your engine could have been running to hot for many months its just a thought does anyone else think this could have caused mattys problem....
Hi kisbee. I'd say the intake pipe has been loose for the last few months as the screw holding it on was unscrewed a long way. Since fixing it this weekend it seems to have got worse but then the uk weather has also got a lot colder. Only starting from the kick start now.
I must admit I'm still a little confused by the profile of the acceleration ie. very slow then a second push after 30. Can this really be due to a dirty carburettor?
Re. The spark, the old spark was blackish, but the new spark plug has made mo difference.
-
Because this bike is only about a year old and very low miles it makes me wonder why the screw holding the air intake pipe came loose in the first place, im thinking the previous owner must have played with the carb at some point maybe to change the jet and not refitted the pipe properly as it seems unusual to work its way loose on a near new scoot, the only time i have had carburettor problems was a few years ago on a old honda express 2stroke, the scoooter had stood many years and it would only just about start and ran very poor so i put a good couple of sprays of wd40 into the fuel tank and by the time i had got through about half the tank it ran and started like the day it was made, but please note im not recomending anyone do this as i dont know what the hazzards could be just back then i was willing to try anything to get the scooter running ok and it owed me nothing so was not the end of the world if i made it worse. Im suprised if it was a carb problem why the redex did not help as a few years ago quite a few people swore by it, also your bike is not that old so dont imagine the carb could be that dirty/contaminated but as part of a fault diagnosis you may have no choice but to manualy clean it to rule it out as a possible cause. I do get the feeling the previous owner is trying to hide something by saying he does not know where/when or how it was derestricted.....
-
A dark spark plug usually means that either you were running rich or you've got a weak spark. Having a weak spark could also cause it to be weaker at low rpm's and then seem to run better at higher rpm's with more juice. But I always check the easiest things first.
Running weak at low speed/rpm/throttle - and a dark plug. Is it possible that either your Fuel screw on the carb has loosened and is making it too rich at low rpm or that possibly the slow air jet has got something obstructing it? Find out how many turns out your fuel screw should be set at - and make sure it isn't out too far. It will affect you until about half throttle.
If it truly runs better above 30 and doesn't run better at 20 with full throttle - then I'm leaning towards a weak spark. Do you have a good battery with a strong charge?
-
seafoam is good but it cant get it all. Its best to hand clean the carb your self with carb cleaner and a small pin to clean out the jets.
-
Hi,
I have Agility 50 4t, as some of you guys complaining up-hill's, yes, same here I have a problem going up.
So, on sunday fill up tank with unleaded 98 and didnt had to try it out to see if it makes any difference yet.
Will keep you posted.
LATERS
Hi,
I have Agility 50 4t, as some of you guys complaining up-hill's, yes, same here I have a problem going up.
So, on sunday fill up tank with unleaded 98 and didnt had to try it out to see if it makes any difference yet.
Will keep you posted.
LATERS
I only put 97 in mine now and it does make it run smoother and more responsive can't say any more power though.
-
A dark spark plug usually means that either you were running rich or you've got a weak spark. Having a weak spark could also cause it to be weaker at low rpm's and then seem to run better at higher rpm's with more juice. But I always check the easiest things first.
Running weak at low speed/rpm/throttle - and a dark plug. Is it possible that either your Fuel screw on the carb has loosened and is making it too rich at low rpm or that possibly the slow air jet has got something obstructing it? Find out how many turns out your fuel screw should be set at - and make sure it isn't out too far. It will affect you until about half throttle.
If it truly runs better above 30 and doesn't run better at 20 with full throttle - then I'm leaning towards a weak spark. Do you have a good battery with a strong charge?
Thanks jwtr and kisbee. I'll check the fuel screw first to see if that's the problem before disassembling the carb.
Re the battery, I expect it's the one that was in there from new, so it must be around 18 months old. I'll try taking it out for a charge, but given I'm running it 9 miles each way on a daily commute, would this not be enough to charge it thoroughly? or is a separte charger always a good idea from time to time?
-
(matty) 9 miles each way should be more than enough to charge your battery my wife sometimes only goes just over 1 mile each way on her 125 agility to work and her battery is fine, thats assuming your battery and stator etc are all working ok, if it has the power to start of the elec start each day then all must be fine so no need for seperate charging of the battery, if you think your battery is not holding its charge because sometimes there is not enough cranking power when using start and you are having to use kick i would buy a good gel battery rather than a battery charger as it will save messing putting it on charge all the time. I had to fit one on my peugeot kisbee as the battery peugeot fitted had no back bone even from new, turned out peugeot had to replace them as part of a recall in the end as that many people complained about having to kick start. My kymco batt has been fine so far never even tried the kick start as it starts first time although it is only 5 months hold so cant say how it will hold out in winter but so far it seems like the batts they fit are reasonable quality, but remember if its not broke dont fix it.....
-
Thanks kisbee. it was starting pretty well until lately off the electric start and even now when it fails to start it seems to have plenty of juice to turn th engine over.
I've ordered a trickle charger just to see if it makes a difference, but sounds like it's back to plan a.
JWTR - the spark plug is new and as above i dont' think it's the battery, so I'll try the fuel screw. THanks.
-
It sounds like your batt is fine if its cranking engine but as a previous poster has said it could be a weak spark and there could be other reasons than the batt so i would not rule it out. Streido has added this manual for download It has a very good diagnosis chart near the end that may well help you and also covers all you need to know to get your hands dirty on this engine...
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=bcfea0fd476a8a822a6a6ba786ff02e1&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kymcoforum.com%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D5201.0&v=1&libid=1319026726269&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freefilehosting.net%2F4-stroke50cc-service-manual&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kymcoforum.com%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D5201.15&title=Download%20links%20for%20manuals%20for%20Agility%2050%20etc.&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freefilehosting.net%2F4-stroke50cc-service-manual&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13190267425113 (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=bcfea0fd476a8a822a6a6ba786ff02e1&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kymcoforum.com%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D5201.0&v=1&libid=1319026726269&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freefilehosting.net%2F4-stroke50cc-service-manual&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kymcoforum.com%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D5201.15&title=Download%20links%20for%20manuals%20for%20Agility%2050%20etc.&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freefilehosting.net%2F4-stroke50cc-service-manual&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13190267425113)
-
Great thanks kisbee/Streido. Manual downloaded. Will digest before digging in.
Just had another thought. On 1 full tank if I'm going longer distances I can usually get about 100 miles out of her. In town (stop and start - 60 traffic lights on my way into work!) I usually get around 85-90 miles out of a full tank. Due to my awful acceleration, the throttle is pretty much only ever fully twisted, or off.
Does that sound around normal? Might help in the diagnosis...
Also another newbie question - I'm aquiring parts for the weekend "makeover". The kymco manual says #82 main jet and #35 slow jet. Is the latter a typo? I can only find #135 jets on the web (and they're pretty few and far between)?
Thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance. Matt
-
Great thanks kisbee/Streido. Manual downloaded. Will digest before digging in.
Just had another thought. On 1 full tank if I'm going longer distances I can usually get about 100 miles out of her. In town (stop and start - 60 traffic lights on my way into work!) I usually get around 85-90 miles out of a full tank. Due to my awful acceleration, the throttle is pretty much only ever fully twisted, or off.
Does that sound around normal? Might help in the diagnosis...
Also another newbie question - I'm aquiring parts for the weekend "makeover". The kymco manual says #82 main jet and #35 slow jet. Is the latter a typo? I can only find #135 jets on the web (and they're pretty few and far between)?
Thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance. Matt
Hi Matt,
check out this link, maybe there is something there for you.
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/guides (http://www.pedparts.co.uk/guides)
LATERS
-
That second kick sounds like maybe the rollers are higher weight. Also I saw on youtube someone say that hard starts can sometimes be fixed by valve adjustments.
-
ok thanks. rollers are next on the list.
right I've had my first attack. Not so successful unfortunately...here's what I've managed:
Removed the carburettor after a bit of a fight - I've managed to destroy one of the bolts holding the throttle cable on to the carburettor. Will have to find a replacement later.
Got the thing open and generally it looked pretty clean. I did however notice the following:
1. The gasket is considerably larger than the channel that it is supposed to run in. So much so that it was impossible to get it to sit inside before reassembly. Is this normal?
2. The air intake (from the air cleaner to the carburettor) was not correctly fitted and there was a bit of dirt inside the carburettor immediately where the air intake pipe attached.
3. The main jet seemed fine, but I couldnt tell what size it was. I replaced it with an 82 anyway, which to the eye looked to have an identical sized hole to the one I took out.
4. I cleaned the idle jet. Then I screwed it back in and it broke (newbie error - overtightened). The hole seemed intact it just split at the top where the screwdriver inserts, so I just left it in as I don't have a replacement at the moment.
5. Fuel lines all seem fine but I replaced the fuel filter with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMALL-LINE-FUEL-FILTER-Petrol-Diesel-Hose-Pipe-6mm-/250848389239?pt=UK_CartsParts_Vehicles_ATVQuad_Trike_Parts_Accessories_SM&hash=item3a67baa877 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMALL-LINE-FUEL-FILTER-Petrol-Diesel-Hose-Pipe-6mm-/250848389239?pt=UK_CartsParts_Vehicles_ATVQuad_Trike_Parts_Accessories_SM&hash=item3a67baa877)anyway.
So I put it all back together again and tried to start.
Same problem, no change at all. Won't start on the electric start. Takes about 10 kicks to start on the kickstart. Except now I have a new problem:
- when idling, it will idle for a little bit, then rpm will go lower and lower until it cuts out. Runs fine as long as revs are high.
Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Next on my list is to check the valve clearances but I can't do that till my tools arrive next weekend. Also I'll probably have to replace the idle jet now I broke it.
Any suggestions?
-
I bought a new Agility 50 last year and I cut the cdi,smooth boss,race variator,iridium plug and all that jazz too and I'm lucky to hit 40 mph on the flats. I truly beleive thats all you're gonna get out of the thing so I would'nt drive myself crazy listening to all these people claiming to get 57-60 mph out of their scoots. I usually cruise at 35-40 mph and I learned to live with it,going up hills is embarrassing,acceleration is kinda slow and it is a hard start when it gets cold.Thats just the way these Agility 50s are I suppose.It would drive me crazy reading about all these people laying rubber and pulling wheelies but occasionally some will tell you the truth that it's running and doing what it was made to do. DONT BUY THE HYPE and learn to enjoy what you have or move up to a bigger scoot.
-
The broken idle jet is causing the latest problem of no longer idling.
Carb gaskets are normally included in rebuild kits because they swell as your did and need to be replaced. Get a rebuild kit for your carb and use it... Replacing the main jet when in doubt is always a good idea.
I'm still suspicious of a weak spark condition... Pull the plug or just the cap, put a plug into the cap and hold it grounded to the frame or engine by the threaded part of the plug - then hit the electric starter. Are you getting a bright spark? Have you tested the battery? If you don't have a tester then take it in to a battery or auto parts store - they will check it for free. A dying battery could fit the problem scenario you've been describing. Ignition problems could too - but make sure your battery is good before looking at anything else...
FWIW: Having enough juice to turn over the engine doesn't always mean you have enough juice for a good spark. If you have a weak condensor/coil - then you'll need more electrical power for a good spark than normal - which would make it run better at high rpm, and make electric starting harder. Check the battery, replace the idle air jet and the gasket - then check your spark and the rest of your ignition...
-
Thanks JWTR. I will do as you suggest - replace the broken jet and get the battery tested. I'll report back when I'm done.
I'll see if I can upload a video of the spark firing (or not!)
On the broken jet front, does anyone know what jet I need? Manual says #35 but gives no help beyond there. What types of carb do these kymcos use?
I've found the following - should this work?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keihin-CVK-FCR-PWK-PE-PD-PWM-PJ-pilot-jets-N424-21-35-/260770801146?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3cb726a5fa (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keihin-CVK-FCR-PWK-PE-PD-PWM-PJ-pilot-jets-N424-21-35-/260770801146?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3cb726a5fa)
Matty
-
I bought a new Agility 50 last year and I cut the cdi,smooth boss,race variator,iridium plug and all that jazz too and I'm lucky to hit 40 mph on the flats. I truly beleive thats all you're gonna get out of the thing so I would'nt drive myself crazy listening to all these people claiming to get 57-60 mph out of their scoots. I usually cruise at 35-40 mph and I learned to live with it,going up hills is embarrassing,acceleration is kinda slow and it is a hard start when it gets cold.Thats just the way these Agility 50s are I suppose.It would drive me crazy reading about all these people laying rubber and pulling wheelies but occasionally some will tell you the truth that it's running and doing what it was made to do. DONT BUY THE HYPE and learn to enjoy what you have or move up to a bigger scoot.
I agree - slight hills are killing me. Other day going up on same hill, it look'd like it's a standard 50 2 stroke flew passed me - I couldnt keep up, embarressing.
-
I've found the following - should this work?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keihin-CVK-FCR-PWK-PE-PD-PWM-PJ-pilot-jets-N424-21-35-/260770801146?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3cb726a5fa (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keihin-CVK-FCR-PWK-PE-PD-PWM-PJ-pilot-jets-N424-21-35-/260770801146?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3cb726a5fa)
Matty
Sorry to nag, folks. I'm eager to get this ordered - had to come in to work on the pushbike today... Does the above jet look like the right one? Failing that which carbs do the kymco 50s use and I'll work it out for myself.
Thanks
Matt
-
Sorry to nag, folks. I'm eager to get this ordered - had to come in to work on the pushbike today... Does the above jet look like the right one? Failing that which carbs do the kymco 50s use and I'll work it out for myself.
Thanks
Matt
Matt,
Make sure you know what you ordering.
Look on the carb for part no or some kind of code or something with numbers on it.
2 and 4 strokes are use different carbs.
if you rush and order items are not the one you wanted, you be wasting time and your pocket money.
Thats why there is "FORUM" to we talk to each other to solve problems.
LATERS
-
Thanks kanbisk
I'll pull the thing out and give it a good looking at for a part number tonight.
I'm thinking i'll just replace the whole carb - a new slow jet is £9 and a whole new carb is £25. Crazy world...
Think I may have killed my warranty! At least I get to learn a bit about bikes.
Thanks
Matt
-
UPDATE: Took the battery for testing. The chap said something like "1256". No idea what he meant, but he said it should be fine. I'll test the actual spark and post a video this weekend.
-
UPDATE: Took the battery for testing. The chap said something like "1256". No idea what he meant, but he said it should be fine. I'll test the actual spark and post a video this weekend.
Maybe he ment 12.56 volts ?
LATERS
-
12.56 volts would be in the middle of the good range. That eliminates a lot of the possibilities. I think your charging system is probably fine - unless you've been keeping it on a charger (which would mask the results). Checking the spark is the next cheap/easy test. Eliminate possibilities wherever you can...
-
I got my suspicion on spark plug also - I had another scooter before, just after put in piston, cyclinder and brand new plug, after 2 miles engine died. After 2 days checking everything, something inside me said put new plug and BANG !!!!! there it was, started sraight away.
Thats what happend to me.
LATERS
-
Hey folks. Just for clarity, I already replaced the spark plug with a brand new iridium one, and it made no difference at all. I know it could still be other electrical components so will post a video of the spark shortly. For reference, below was the condition of the old spark plug when it came out.
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/mattyuk_2006/P1010346.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/mattyuk_2006/P1010347.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/mattyuk_2006/P1010348.jpg)
-
Looks like it was leaning out and runnign hot
-
Hard to know how much of this was due to the air intake (from the air cleaner to the carburettor) being disconnected - I've no idea how long it had been running like this, but at least 3-4 months since I've had it.
Anyway, new carb is in the post so we'll see where that goes - will also have new auto choke on it so that might help?
I've really no idea what I'm doing here...but learning fast. ish
-
Looks like a typical dry fouled plug to me. A weak spark is still my number one suspicion, followed by valves out of spec - but I'm also concerned about low compression or a malfunctioning choke. Seeing the spark should help.
-
ok. just replaced the whole carburetor with new. Still same problems. In fact even harder to start.
Finally got it running - idle problem might have been due to a loose throttle screw - now adjusted and idles ok but I have to have it at pretty high revs to keep it "idling". Not enough so that the clutch engages though.
That done, I turned to the spark. Just had a look at the plug which is only a couple of weeks old and it's black black black. Maybe from all my turning it over to try to get it started? no idea.
Below is an image of the spark plug. video to follow shortly.
In summary, I'm back to square 1 now. Got a running bike, but with no acceleration...
Next step change the battery? I had just been charging when I took it for testing. Could have been wrong. I'm thinking of biting the bullet and just taking it in to the garage.
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/mattyuk_2006/P1020368Large.jpg)
-
(http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/mattyuk_2006/?action=view¤t=7-1.mp4)
(http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/mattyuk_2006/?action=view¤t=5-2.mp4)
-
Matt,
I not trying to be funny but it looks like to me (what I can see from video) WEAK spark.
Try testing the coil, HT lead and plug holder.
Also try reading these 9 reasons of why scooters dont start. http://www.gsmotorworks.com/scooter_starting_tips/c50_r45/Scooter_Starting_Tips.cfm (http://www.gsmotorworks.com/scooter_starting_tips/c50_r45/Scooter_Starting_Tips.cfm)
LATERS
-
Thanks Kanbisk. I'll get the battery double-checked and maybe just buy a new one.
Any idea why the spark plug might have gone black so quickly?
-
Hi Matt,
This is what I found out,
"A black dry fluffy colored plug is caused by deposits from a carburetor that is running too rich (too much gas),or excessive idling on some engines.
Black smoke coming from the exhaust is a sign of a rich air/fuel mixture. The rich air/fuel mixture must be repaired before installing a new spark plug.
Common causes for a rich air/fuel mixture are:
dirty air filter.
air mixture screw or carburetor needs adjusting.
choke is sticking.
carburetor float height is out of adjustment or float is sticking open."
Just installing carb wont help, you need to adjust CO levels.
By looking your pictures, it looks like running too rich - either too much petrol OR less air.
LATERS
-
Thanks Kanbisk. will have a play with the air mix and see how i get on.
I got the battery double checked and the garage seem to think it's fine. Went to check the coil but my multimeter is broken, so just ordered a new cheapie one to see. Will report back once it gets here from china...
Latest problem:
Now starting ok from electric start but for first 5 minutes of riding, engine cuts out when throttle is released. After 5 minutes, its fine when I release the throttle. Baffling. Assume this is something to do with the choke, but a new autochoke came with the carburettor so it's unlikely to be faulty - so a bit confused again. Could this also be due to weak spark?
Balls...
-
I agree - the latest problem sounds like the choke. The choke in the carb may be fine - but does it need a signal to choke- and if so then is it getting the signal?
-
good news everyone. I've been playing round with lots of things on the scoot and now it's definitely broken.
Tried to replace the original rollers with new - that was interesting - the thing revs up to top revs super quick but still accelerates like a turd. also after about 40 miles it's died. I can drive it at around 5mph but any faster than that and the revs drop back to very low again.
Am taking it to pieces and putting it back together again but no idea what's causing the above. Anyone?
More annoyingly, this thing is still under warranty. I think it's been derestricted as it does 37mph (when working). That would invalidate the warranty so I'm trying to re-restrict it. I've replaced the original jet, checked the rollers were original, and now I'm looking at the variator boss.
I've got it out and it has no shoulder on it - it's completely smooth and it's 38mm long by 20mm wide - is this definitely a performance boss. ie. do all kymco agility 50s come from the factory with a shouldered boss? If so I think I've found how the bike was derestricted. Now the question is where the heck do I get an original shouldered boss from? Not so easy...
Any help welcome!
UPDATE: I've just taken it apart again and put the original rollers back in, which I think are 6.5g (I fitted 5.5g temporarily as above). Unfortunately I still have this problem with it not wanting to go over 5mph. If I rev it up, it just dies back down immediately with no acceleration, but I can creep up to 5mph if I take it sloooow. Looking at the driven pulley drive face there seems to be a big black ring of black rubber towards the outside of the face which I'm not sure was there before or not. Also just checked the belt and it's 15.7mm wide - below the service replacement limit.
Not sure if whatever I did last week has toasted the belt somehow. Aaargh!
New belt ordered...