KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: bmcafee on August 11, 2011, 10:02:57 PM
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I know there was another thread on belts but i didnt want to thread jack. mine blew apart last night so today i read the other thread befor going to the parts store and thought I got the right size for 12 inch wheel 729mm length but when I went to slap it in I noticed that it is touching the casing around the the back side so I think if I were to ride it with this it would get destroyed, possibly jacking something wlse up in the process. Really confused any idea's would be awesome. oh and my ag does have the 12 wheels just remeasured.
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Hey man, what do you mean "touching the casing on the back side"? The rear pulley(@ the clutch?).
It'll go inside down into that pulley so that shouldnt matter. If i'm not mistaken, my homey has a 748 that he uses.....
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just stick with the stock size be safe then sorry.
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Batman,
It is touching on the case above and below the pully there is enough slack I am afraid that if it does settle into the pulley that there will be WAY to much slack and not be able to get any kind of frictioin off of the drive boss, like the boss will spin but not the belt. as it is already making contact.
Blue,
the stock one broke and I was told this was the replacment for the stock one. Thats what my problem is, I cant messure the old on due to it falling apart at 43mph there is not much left. so my issue is what size to get.
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Stock length is def 729mm for agility with 12" wheels. I ordered a new belt not long ago, 729-18-30, but it doesnt feel right so I refitted my old stock belt for now.
Im sure the 18mm wide is too wide for me, top speed was limited cos it wont go right down into the bottom of the rear pulley, and it just felt rough. When I compared new belt to old stock belt, the new one was a good 2mm wider. I ordered a 729-17-30, once it arrives I will try that, hopefully it will work well.
Some sites list a50 belt as 18mm wide, some say 17.7mm, others 17.5mm. I emailed Kymco the other day to ask them exactly which size they recommend, no answer yet but will let you know what they tell me.
729mm long IS he correct length tho.
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I noticed that It was not wasy to fit the old belt in I had always had problems, I would have to pre load it in the pully, maybe the old belt was too short idk I will tighten everything togeather today and see what it does when it is running and just keep my finger crossed. Wish me luck ill keep posted.
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Its normal to have to pull the belt into the rear pulley, I cant get my belt on if I dont. You can get a magic marker and draw a few lines on the variator face if you want to double check. Draw a line out from the centre to the edge then go for a run and re-check it. The belt will rub the marker pen off the variator as it raises up and down so you can see if it rides all the way up to the edge if all the pen has rubbed off. Just as long as you are derestricted that is.
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So with the new belt I still feel that it might be too long but I took it for a test run today seems to be fine. Just nervous about the different from the old and new I think the old one way have been 699mm and the new is 729mm. went from 8gr weight down to 7 and wow what a difference. havent been able to take it on a strech of road long enough to see how it effected top end but still optomistic, climbs hills much better. Thanks for all the imput guys ill update this if it shreads in the next week but hopefully not.
Thanks again,
Brian.
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You could take the new belt off again and compare it to the old belt if you still have it?
Think 699 belt is stock for a scooter with 10" wheels.
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I know the size difference is determinded by wheel size. I cant compare the old one due to it shreaded at 43 so there was only one piece that was longer and an inch. I can tell froim placeing the belt it that is is alot bigger than the original. I used to have to load the belt into the pulley and even then it would barely fit onto the boss. The new one slides right on with a ton of slack. I am about to recheck the belt I took it for a ride of about 5 miles and i think it is slapping the outter casing from the sound. will update.
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I was wrong on one thing guys, my homey is running a 729 belt, he purposely bought a 729 for a hair extra length...729 is gooooood.. ;)
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yea there is ware I think I got the frankenstien special I deff need the 699mm belt even though I have 12 inch wheels. The total sound of the bike is different at speed and I can feel a new vibration from the back. There is also a not so friendly sound that is makes when i cut off the engine. I would love if I could find a 709-18-30. it would be nice having an extra cm but I have way too much right now. I think I can use this sparingly untill I can get a new part in next week.
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Try a zx50 belt, I think the part no. is kcx9000, about 724mm, might be a happy medium.
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Just put a big rubber band around it. wind it up and let it go>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. ;D ;D
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after researching I was wrong its not 699mm its 669, so I ordered that it was 25$ "US" with shipping so not too bad they had it on special its a gates power link. oh and blue wish I could at this point I think it would be more reliable I have been replacings thing one by one since purchasing the scoot. price of scoot 440 total invested close to 1850... a few more parts and I will have a brand new scoot LOL.
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You could take the new belt off again and compare it to the old belt if you still have it?
Think 699 belt is stock for a scooter with 10" wheels.
x2 better make sure the 699 is the right size those are for 10 inch tires.
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Blue not trying to be rude but please read the previous posts befor responding....
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http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/748-18-28-50cc-gates-scooter-cvt-belt-for-kymco-agility-50.html (http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/748-18-28-50cc-gates-scooter-cvt-belt-for-kymco-agility-50.html)
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I fitted a gates powerlink belt yesterday, 729-17.7-30, and my scooter went to sh**. Hills I would go up at 30mph I dropped to 22-24mph, lost top end, acceleration went real bad, no revs. My stock belt is 729 so I knew it wasnt that.
Took it all apart today and removed the gates powerlink belt to measure it just in case. Guess what, its not 729mm long its only 716mm long? Wtf? It says 729 on it too???
Put in the Nakura 729 belt I had and now its back running ok again. Surely a 729 belt means its 729mm long? Was listed as 729-17.7-30. I just emailed guy to complain and say I want a refund cos its not a 729 long belt he sent me. Just measure all new belts now from now on before I fit them. Had my head scratchin on this till I measured it.
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Maybe a belt that didn't pass quality control, sent out as a second (reject), seller picks it up cheap, sells it retail, maybe?
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I rember geting the wrong rollers befor they said 13x 16 on the box when I put theam in they wear rattleing all over in the scoot way to small took theam back and was lucky to get the right ones.
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x2 better make sure the 699 is the right size those are for 10 inch tires.
sorry about that.
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I thought it was maybe a dodgy belt or like sid said the guy got cheap stock somewhere cos it was 2nds. I dont care what it was tho, I just want my cash back cos its useless to me and the guy has it advertised wrongly. Waited a week for it to arrive as well >:(
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just to be certain the first number is the o.d. not the i.d. right?
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Yeah blue, he has it listed as 729mm long on his site.
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Who was the seller?
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I got it from ebid, its like a uk ebay. Was meant to be 17mm wide too but it says 17.7mm clearly on it. Think this is just some cowboy seller, 1st and last time I use ebid.
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I think you will find 17.7 is the correct width, 17mm is the wear limit.
Going off subject a bit, I used gumtree last week to sell a hard lid from my ute, no fees and it sold. 8)
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I got it from ebid, its like a uk ebay. Was meant to be 17mm wide too but it says 17.7mm clearly on it. Think this is just some cowboy seller, 1st and last time I use ebid.
Sorry to hear that. Seems like a few mm's can make a lot of difference?
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Enya, Its more the length thats the problem, the belt is nearly 1.5cm's shorter than it should be. Says 729 on it but its only 716 long.
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Enya, Its more the length thats the problem, the belt is nearly 1.5cm's shorter than it should be. Says 729 on it but its only 716 long.
Yeah I know. This is the replacement belt I use:http://www.scooterbelt.com/gapo72cvtdrb.html (http://www.scooterbelt.com/gapo72cvtdrb.html) which I believe has ALL of the same dimensions as the stock belt. Polini recommends the use of this belt with their variator:http://uk.catalogo.polini.it/catalogo/en/risultato.php?op=po&id=86719 (http://uk.catalogo.polini.it/catalogo/en/risultato.php?op=po&id=86719), which if you look at their chart here:http://uk.catalogo.polini.it/dep/polini_ric_cinghie.pdf (http://uk.catalogo.polini.it/dep/polini_ric_cinghie.pdf) has the dimensions as 745x17.8x30. I'm thinking that I should have purchased this belt in order to get the full performance out of my variator. It also makes me wonder if all of us using malossi, ncy or polini variators should be using longer belts than the stock 729mm?
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@Encya, that Gates Powerlink is the exact same belt I ordered, same numbers printed on it too. If your ever in the cvt cover give it a measure will you and let us know how long it is? Mine is only 716mm long round the outside of the belt? Better make sure yours is not too short too cos it will badly affect performance.
A 729mm long belt goes all the way up to the top of my variator, I checked it already. Draw a couple of lines on your variator face, from the centre out to the edge, with a magic marker. Now when you ride your scoot the belt will ride up the variator and rub off the marker. Take it up to full speed then stop, let it cool down, and check variator to make sure your belt goes right to the edge of the variator.
Like I say, that is the exact belt I got and I found it too short. My a50 has 12" wheels maybe you have 10"?
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Nope I have 12's.
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The only explanation is that the belt I got has been marked wrong at the factory then ???
I measured it at 216mm and when I sat my stock kymco belt beside it you can see its physically shorter.
I emailed the seller to ask for a replacement the correct size or a refund so see what luck I get there. ::)
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The only explanation is that the belt I got has been marked wrong at the factory then ???
I measured it at 216mm and when I sat my stock kymco belt beside it you can see its physically shorter.
I emailed the seller to ask for a replacement the correct size or a refund so see what luck I get there. ::)
The bigger question for me is, should all of us w/performance variators be running longer belts than the the stock 729 mm?
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Do the magic marker thing on your variator to check it rides all the way to the top, mine does on a 729mm belt so its fine for me.
To send dodgy belt back for a refund.
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IM doing good with my new belt and 6 gram rollers its a slower start but the top end is great.
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This freakin sucks! 724 is a mile too long and 669 the only other size is a mile short and I cant find anything in the middle that is the proper width and angle. and it is running like a dog with the long ass belt but its all i can use.
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To bad we cant find a belt like we can are clothes. ( One size fits all)
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it really sucks ive noticed with the new belt the scoot is idling higher so it really rough stopped at lights. I dont know if that is caused by the width of the belt or not. I notice that is make a bad clunk noice in the cvt case on shuting down the motor. Also while riding the belt either gets stuck or slips out it makes a sound like brrrrrr and slows down slightly then continues accelerating. any idea's are welcome I ust got in a new carb jet and im about to replace the spark plug with the cr7hix iridium plug. what do you guys think about still running the scoot with the longer belt. Can it cause damage to the variator of cam? I asssumed that it is safe, but the more I think about it the more unsure that i become. Just stuck on this and really lost..... think im buying a new scoot in october if this one can make it there it would be awsome, just seems like a never ending money pit.
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I thought you had a 729 belt? By the sound of the "clunk" when you shut down, I would suggest having a good look at your variator, as it sounds like something is loose, though that could be caused by the belt being too long. Have you measured the belt with a tape?
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Another thought, next time you have your cvt cover off, can you measure the distance from the centre of the crankshaft and the clutch shaft.
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Thats totally weird ??? It must run either a 729 or a 699 belt, as far as I know thats the only 2 lengths the a50 uses?
Im with sid, take out the new belt and physically measure it round the outside yourself with a tape. I ordered a 729-17.7-30 gates powerlink belt a couple of weeks ago now, fitted it in and my scooter went to sh**. After a lot of head scratching I finally took the new belt back out and measured it. Turns out it was only 716 long even tho is clearly has 729 stamped on it. Maybe it was just a bad belt or a factory mistake, but it pissed me off until I figured out why it was running so bad. Maybe you got a similai issue there so worth measuring the belt yourself to be sure its correct.
Also check the rear pulley when you take the belt out, make sure the 2 rear faces or the pulley are secured and not loose. I recently had the inner face come away from the backing (in front of the torque spring) it wasnt noticable with the belt on cos that held it in place but after I took the belt off I saw it. Had to fit a complete new rear pulley assembly :(
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Where did you get your pulley from? I only found half pulleys.
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The belt may have stretched a bit over time as well, just a thought
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Nah, he purchased a new belt and it is too long.
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@sid, got the complete pulley, ready to fit with torque spring & clutch etc all inc from ebay for £24 brand new.
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Link? I don't need the clutch, but if that is included, so be it.
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okay guys took it back apart and took another look. the belt is now 810mm when I bought it it was 729 i messured it befor buying. The distance from the center of the cam stud and the clutch stud is 10 inch or 255mm. I dont know how to post a pic here but the belt is touching the outer cvt case alot.
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@sid,i got mine over 3 months ago from a UK seller,cant remember his name. Had a quick look there on ebay and there are still some there in the US. Dont know if thats any good for you getting them to Aus? Try them anyway if you want, heres a couple of links i found, prob more out there.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clutch-Bell-Assembly-GY6-50cc-Clutch-Moped-Go-Kart-ATV-/400229756327?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d2f8d6da7 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clutch-Bell-Assembly-GY6-50cc-Clutch-Moped-Go-Kart-ATV-/400229756327?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d2f8d6da7)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50cc-GY6-Clutch-Scooter-Moped-49cc-Four-Stroke-Eton-ATV-/150455682847?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_100&hash=item2307db871f (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50cc-GY6-Clutch-Scooter-Moped-49cc-Four-Stroke-Eton-ATV-/150455682847?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_100&hash=item2307db871f)
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Thanks streido, will have a look when I get a chance. bmcafee, I will take my cover off when I can and measure mine. Mine is a zx50, but I am pretty sure the clutches are the same unit, different variators though, I think. That is a big stretch for the belt, have you spoken to the seller about replacing it with a servicable one? That one is not up to par.
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I was not sure what the norm was on streching. I was dissapointed though when as soon a I signed the recipt the clerck said no refunds. I took a second and though that it might be fishy but was unsure. It does seem quite extreme. What killed me as soon as i fittes the new belt it was too long though. what is the average stretch for a belt? and thanks for the reply
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My old stock belt was years old, had stretched from 729mm to maybe 730mm at most. I would never have expected it possible for any belt to stretch 8cm, sounds impossible, are you 100% sure you got the measuring right? I thought it would snap before stretching as much as you said?
If all measurements are correct then the belt MUST be faulty and you would be due a refund no matter what the shop says since the goods were not fit for purpose and were faulty. I would be straight onto the shop asap to demand a free replacement.
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Don't ask for a refund, ask for a belt that is the correct length, you bought a belt that was 729mm long, not 800mm. What brand was the belt? Sounds like someone has picked up a bunch of rejects and selling them as the correct item.
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if ya cant find a belt call jenny she hooked me up and im all good the frist time around. are you guys rideing or are you all stell looking for a belt. you guys must be geting upset with your belts by now.
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Not me blue, I am running stock belt now and have a 729 and a 732 belt for spare. :)
Would like to try a 748, but that will have to wait until next time I have a spare parts buying urge.
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Sid The belt I got was in plastic it said Kymco on it and the belt itself had bando and kymco on it. They said that it was a replacment for the stock one. I will try to give Jenny a call. I think she left her number in a post blue started a week or two ago.
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Not me blue, I am running stock belt now and have a 729 and a 732 belt for spare. :)
Would like to try a 748, but that will have to wait until next time I have a spare parts buying urge.
spare is good. now I have a spare also thats why its good to replace befor they go to bad just so you can have a spare. I need to rebuld my spare carb so I can throw it in for the winter.
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bmcafee, take the belt back and ask for a replacement, it is faulty. With a part like that they will say no refund, that is fair enough, but that one is faulty. Replacing a faulty item is not the same as a refund for a wrong choice.
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nice I'll give it a shot
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What is the part no. on your belt?
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Just for a point of reference, I just measured my stock kymco/bando belt, and I measured 733 mm. So taking into account a tiny bit of stretching and possible variation in measurement technique I'm fairly confident my stock belt is or was the correct 729 mm. The P/N on the stock belt is 23100-KEB7-9000. I didn't have a problem with this belt, it's my spare for now. I'm just posting for others benefit.
Later today I'll measure my current Gates belt and compare. I'll also use steido's magic marker technique on my Polini race variator and post back the results.
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Think I measured my old belt and it as a mm or 2 over the 729, eiher down to bad measuring or a little stretching, still worked fine tho.
Would love to take the credit fo the magic marker test but im sure it waw sid who told me about it a while ago. Very useful and simple test tho, I advise everyone to try it at least once to make sure your gettng the full range out of the variator.
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I think a couple of mm is normal for a bit of stretch, but 810mm is too long.
I shall take no credit, I think it was Shaka who introduced this idea.
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Ok the Gates Powerlink 729-17.5-30 actually measured about 723 mm compared to the kymco/bando P/N 23100-KEB7-9000 733 mm. I tested the magic marker method with both belts the Gates Powerlink left about 6 mm of marker on the variator, while the kymco/bando left about 4 mm of marker on the variator. I put the stock belt back on. But I guess this shows that the race variators can indeed benefit from a 748 mm belt. So I guess my next purchase will be the Polini 748 mm belt.
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Not me blue, I am running stock belt now and have a 729 and a 732 belt for spare. :)
Would like to try a 748, but that will have to wait until next time I have a spare parts buying urge.
Correction, I was not running the stock belt, I was in fact running the Dayco 732x18.5, the extra width was causing a loss in performance. i have put in the Gates powerlink 729x17.7 belt and it comes almost to the outer edge of the clutch pulley, it measured around 724mm?, i don't get this as I measurede my stock belt at 715mm, last time I measured that one it was 724 from memory. I think I may have used a different tape this time so that could be it.
Thanks for the crank to clutch measurement, mine is 247mm.
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That gates powerlink belt sounds like the one I got that was short.Belt I got was a 729-17.7 belt too only it measured 716-17.7 so was way too short, I saw on the variator it was nowhere near the top and the acceleration was a joke, it got stuck in too high a gear and had no power.
You would think if a belt is listed as 729 then that is how long it would be, mine was only 716 long.
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Streido where did you get the short belt from? That length would work better than the 729-18.
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Got it from ebid, here's a link, http://uk.ebid.net/for-sale/gates-powerlink-729-17-30-cvt-belt-for-50cc-gy6-engine-39148682.htm (http://uk.ebid.net/for-sale/gates-powerlink-729-17-30-cvt-belt-for-50cc-gy6-engine-39148682.htm)
Says its 17mm wide but its 17.7mm.
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BACK UP AND RUNNING BABY!!!! I took a gamble and tried the molossi kevlar belt and it is a hair long but I think that it'll be all good, running like a top. just have to replace the speedometer cable again... after I can put in the new jet and iridium plug. Thanks guys still cant figure what went so wrong with that other belt.
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Just a dodgy belt.
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I had idea to try a few more belts and put some old belt from my brothers Sym Jet euro x 50 2T. it's 737x18 (correct measurements) but had worn to 16.5 mm in width(18 mm new). worked fine but had spots in acceleration and this unpleasant fealing at top speed that something is holding me back.
so, I decided to buy the same new one made by Bando for 25$. Installed stock variator and clutch spring and I was very happy with result. Constant acceleration and very decent max speed (80 km/h) with 5.7 gr rollers.works fine on malossi kit too.
also, somewhere I suggested Vicma/Dynaflex 740! It's rubbish! a friend of mine bought it and I instaled it on his ag 50.
at 5.500 km on this belt it was almost desintegraded and making some soft grinding/squeaking noise. Performance was ok but made some violet heat marks on the front movable pulley.
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Woodcutter my problems were worst than the I couldnt stop without the scoot shaking the fillings out of my teeth and the belt was audibally making contact, when you hit a bump I could hear and feel it bind. Also the rpm's were higher felt like i put in 2 gram ligthter rollers, so i couldnt top it out without feelig like i was going to blow the motor. Bando was no good for me. deffinatly bad part.
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Yes, you definately got a bad belt, but, I wouldn't write off Bando as they do make the genuine belts for Kymco.
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bmcafee, as you described it, the belt is 100% too long or streched. I had some heavy vibratios coming through the floor on top speed with 748 belt but on oem variator and torque spring. it's smooth on malossi kit.
clunking against cvt cover and sticking when braking to stop/erratic and slow start suggest too long or not enough flexible belt.
sidesloth is right. don't write off bando cause it's oem and as I could see they're making quality rubber.
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just got back from a 100 mile trip and found 737 Bando to be the mildest belt to my variator :-)
it puts the least heat on cvt cover and feels so smooth wich I appreciate