KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 8 => Topic started by: ianmac on June 11, 2011, 11:30:24 PM
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Just a word of advice, I bought my Kymco from a cycle shop here in Detroit Michigan.
I wasted $10.00 on a derestricted variator boss online just to fine out that mine didnt have that restrictive collar.
Then I wasted another $10.00 on a #82 Main jet just to find out mine already had one.
So the only restriction in place on my bike when I bought it was the CDI wire which I cut...
That took me from 30mph to 37mph.
I changed the main jet to a #88 and put a free flow K&N Filter on and now I max out at 35mph.... but its quicker to get there.... WHAT GIVES?
Should I really waste my money on a race variator and lighter weights or just go straight to the 80cc big bore kit?(http://)
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Take off your inner and outer variator and mark a couple of lines with a marker on the belt faces from the centre hole out to the edge. Put it back together and run it for a few miles, then take it apart and check how far up the belt is riding on the variator by seeing how much marker is worn off.
If its not running to the top then your belt is short and you wont get full speed out of it.
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Thanks Ill try this out today....
If my belt is too short what is the solution? A simple adjustment or do I need a new belt?
Also how close to the top should it be going? I know if it goes over the variator its goign to get shredded.
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I did my own and it looked like I could go up a little more, 5-10mm, on the outer face. On the variator tho it must be riding to the top because there was no pen mark left, so I think my belt is fine. As long as you are near enough to the top on the variator your belt will be fine, if it doesnt then you need a longer belt.
Maybe someone who owns the same scooter can help cos I have an agility 50 4t, similair engines tho. You should be able to get 45-50mph on the clock without changing heads or carbs etc.
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45-50??? Im not even close... are you in the united states?
I weigh about 210lbs so that might have something to do with it, but I am for sure not getting more than 35 right now.
All the performance intake and main jet did was make it louder.
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Not in the US, im in Scotland. Im 170lb's myself. My scooter has the 50cc gy6 139qmb 4 stroke engine dont know if your scooter is exactly the same engine. I get 45mph easy, even in the wind, normally 45-48mph on flats, occassional 50+ on a good day.
Currently im still on my stock air box, stock exhaust and an #82 main jet too, so I could still gain a few mph if I fit a k&n type filter im sure. Fully derestricted it, fitted race variator, 5.5g rollers and a 1000rpm torque spring in the rear. Pulls smooth and pretty strong now to 45mph easy, normally sit at 45-48mph all the way to work.
You must have something holding yours back still, jst dont know what if its not your belt tho. Hopefully someonewho owns the same scooter can give us their opinion and tell us how fast their scooter goes, sure they must go faster than what your getting.
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Ok... now I really messed it up...
Took everything apart to mark up my variator and now when I put it back together it wont start.
Originally the variator would lock up when tightening the 17mm nut, but now it just keeps turning.
Im no mechanic so I am not sure why, but I think the starter gear up top is doing something wrong.
I have a line where I could see where my belt was going to on the variator face (see attached pictures<- Sorry, cant attach pictures for some reason, upload folder full)
The whole inside of my cover, and variator, and rollers are all covered with pcs of the belt.
While I was in there I changed the variator boss from the aftermarket one I bought back to the kymco original (it was smooth anyways, and seemed like better quality)
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
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Did your belt get shredded then? Sounds like it wasnt sitting correctly after you re-installed it then when you tried to start it its been jammed or something?
Not sounding too good :'(
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Nevermind... I think the battery was just dead... or close to it.
Its a 2009 that I bought in May of this year, so its been sitting around for a while....
The lights always dimmed when you werent going fast so I knew it was only a matter of time.
I kick started it and ran it, then took everythign apart again, I cant post pictures to this forum, but its about .150" from the angle before the gear teeth on the outside variator and about .150" from the edge of the inside variator.
Also the cover was too hot to touch after my test drive, and I noticed belt shavings all over the inside, and the variator roller "boss" is still too hot to touch 15 min after taking it apart.
The belt being too small is starting to make sense.
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One other thing of note, I had a blue plastic shield around my K&N Filter.
I removed that today thinking that it was restricting air flow in to the carb, but that didnt change anything.
I think I got to about 37mph max today.
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Hats good it wasnt anyhing major when it wouldnt start, bet you got a bit worried there. I had a few moments myself where I thought I broke my scooter after trying to fix it ;D
When you say your case if full of belt shavings, that sound odd. My case gets black inside from belt dust but I have no actual shavings coming off it.
Like I said, I would def put back the stock filter and fit #82 jet then get it going over 40 before I touched anything else. That way you can def rule out any filter issues being the problem.
Who knows it may even go great with the stock airbox back on?
Oh, and my variator and case gets pretty warm too, its normal, as far as I know. Ive used welding gloves in the past when swapping out rollers etc if I cant wait for it to cool down ;D My outside case doesnt get as hot as the variator but goes warm.
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Yes, its dust more than shavings, I guess I should watch my terms more closely.
I have to glue the tube back into my airbox before I can reinstall, I had to take it off
I understand your point of only changing one thing at a time.
What do you think about grinding .020" off the face of my variator to let them get closer together?
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I wouldnt grind my variartor, im sure someone must have triedit in the past tho, maybe sidthesloth will chip in later with info on that, he seems pretty clued up on scooter engines and transmissions?
Like I said, I still got 43mph on my stock variator with the smooth boss in anyway. If the faces of the variator came too close it will trap your belt and pinch it maybe? You can buy a cheap race variator from ebay, from scooter assassins I think, look under "gy6 race variator". It cost me £18 instead of £60 for the malossi kit so I got the cheap option to see how it was and was happy with it. Still I think you should def be getting more top speed without the race variator, over 40mph anyway on the flats. Surely someone here has the same scooter as you and can tell us what speeds they get?
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Oh, and the black dust in the crankcase cover is normal so dont worry. I cleaned mine out about a month ago and when I changed my torque spring at the weekend it was black inside the case again. Its just dust from the belt and any dust etc that gets in from the air tube thats used to cool it.
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Yes, I was checking ebay... just trying to find one that is decent and also has 26 splines.
Dont want to buy a part that wont work.
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Most sellers list the scooters it fits at the bottom of their pages. You can also google for "gy6 race variator" and pick the shopping tab, you will find the malossi multivar kit there. I wanted that but was nervous to splash out so much so tried the cheaper chinese race variator to see how it worked out, im happy with it on my scoot, made a good improvement.
This is the one I fitted in mine, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RACE-VARIATOR-GY6-50-KYMCO-BAOTIAN-LIFAN-Chinese-/300540989339?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item45f9a38f9b#ht_1861wt_685 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RACE-VARIATOR-GY6-50-KYMCO-BAOTIAN-LIFAN-Chinese-/300540989339?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item45f9a38f9b#ht_1861wt_685)
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The black dust is from belt and clutch friction material wear. You won't need to replace the drive face, only the variator, (or moveable drive face). The variator doesn't have splines as it slides along the machined sleeve (drive boss).
This will come with the variator, ramp plate slides and rollers. As streido said, the sellers will list what model they will fit.
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Great, thank you both for the information.
I think I will go with a new variator and some 6g Rollers.
I want to find somewhere local to me though, scooter assasins shipped my main jet and air filter and it took about 2 weeks.... much longer than I can take!
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As long as you check it fits your scooter then you should be fine. If they ask yours is a GY6 - 50, 4t , 139QMB engine.
Agree about scooter assassins, the wait is a nightmare but the prices are usually not too bad for some non-urgent stuff.
Hope it works out with the variator, keep us posted how it does.
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You blokes are spoilt, 2 weeks is the norm. I am waiting on an item from America, 3 weeks gone now.
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Just put the stock airbox and filter back on....
Battery is shot so its kick start every time which is a PAIN!
Going to look for a battery tomorrow.
Inlaws are here so they are riding it around, I will have to report on the top speed later.
Sounds quiter again, so that should be a good sign.
3 weeks..... I wouldnt make it.
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Sometimes you don't have any choice. Get your inlaws to go for a top speed run.:)
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Latest update....
Put the airbox back to stock and the thing would get to about 20mph and then bog down.
Took out the actual filter and put the box back on and a little better.
Took off the airbox cover and a little better, but still couldnt get over 25mph before bogging down and I had to "burp" the throttle to get it there, otherwise 10mph it would bog down.
Figured that it had to be starving for air so I took everything off and ran without an airfilter and everything was great!
Went to my K&N Filter and back up to 35mph....
Not ecstatic, but at least I figured some stuff out.
Is there any chance that there is some restriction that I am missing? perhaps on the exhaust?
Just doesnt make sense that I have increased the airflow and the gas and not gotten any faster
Thanks for the help, I'm going to order a race variator and rollers tomorrow.
In the meantime the wife has been driving my 150 so much while hers is out of commision, im worried I may not get it back!
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From that, it sounds like you are too rich, maybe try a smaller jet.
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Trust me, I wanted to, however that appears to be the only one for my carb out there... #88 from Tapai Scooter Assasins.
All the rest have a different thread.
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Your Kymco dealer should have one, if hes local? Thats where I got mine.
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No such luck... they are a "motorcycle shop" that bought some leftover stock from a powersports store that was going out of business.
They dont support anythign for the Kymco.
What weight rollers are you using in your scoot?
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Im starting to think I should have named this thread Kymco Super 8 Nightmare.
So I went to take the battery out today to go and get a new one, and being the responsible citizen I am I decided to check the voltage on the battery first.
Im getting 12.1V
But yet when I put it back in the scoot it wont turn over....
Anyone have any idea's? Could it be the starter already?7
104miles on it.
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Alright... swapped the batteries with my 150cc and no problems, except last night I started noticing the lights dimming again as I was slowing down... so I hooked up the battery tender.... I think the alternator cant keep up with the battery or isnt working properly.
I also got my impact wrench and 5g slider weights...
I changed the slider weights and cleaned off the variator.... I noticed that its quicker off the jump now, but I am still stuck at 35mph and 37 if I tuck down under the windshield..... frustrating..
Last attempt is going to be a #85 main jet, I think the #88 is too rich... Havent checked the plug yet but its worth a shot
I can get a Keihin #85 for about $12.00 shipped
Stock was #80 I went to #88 cause it was the only one I could find that someone would guarantee would fit.
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I feel like Im talking to myself here, but someone may read this and get some info from it.
I replaced my stock 6g rollers (actually 6.5 because it was 39g for 6) with 5g sliders
Take off seems better, I can actually feel it pushing me back around 15-20mph but 35 is all I can get... .if I tuck below the windshield I can get 37.
Still debating on the variator, but I have a feeling it will just be a waste of money. Found a generic? Ruima for $69 and a main jet on provscooter.com
Or I can get a Polini variator for $85.00 from enviromoto
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I dont think I would buy a new variator, unless it looks worn? Must be some other problem that need fixed 1st, I just dont know what it could be ???
Valve gaps ok?
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I dont know jack about the valve gaps... that may be a little too much for my knowledge.
I pulled the plug today and it does look a little rich, again I would post pictures but this site wont allow.
I found what a believe to be a Keihin #85 main jet that will fit my scooter on provoscooters.com
I ordered it on Friday so hopefully I will be replacing that next week and see if that helps first.
Thinking about pulling the exhaust, although most everything I read on here says there is no restriction there and dont mess with it if you dont have to.
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If you got a manual and a feeler gauge the gaps are pretty easy to do, I just did mine for the 1st tme the other day ;D
I know what you mean tho, its a bit daunting in case you f@&k up. Yours maybe ok but on my agility the owners manual recommends checking them every 2 months.
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How labor intensive is checking the valve gaps?
How many hours did you spend doing that, and are any special tools needed?
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It honestly took me maybe 30mins total and that was my 1st time doing it, I was surprised how easy it was. I had been puttng it off for ages cos I was unsure/not confident what I was doing.
You need to know what the valve gaps for your scooter are meant to be set at, mine was 0.04mm, the manual will tell you if you have one.
You just need a socket set to remove the seat and rocker cover, feeler gauge to measure the gap, and socket set to loosen the bit where you adjust the gap. You can buy a special tool to tighten and loosen the pin that makes the gap but I just used pliers, worked fine.
Sounds a lot but its honestly pretty easy if your ok on basic mechanics, read the manual or look on youtube for a vid showing it and just take your time.
Even if you just check them without changing anything, at least then you know your gaps are correct or not and you can get sokeone to do it for you if it needs it and your not happy trying?
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Doesnt sound any worse than changing out a main jet.
Just need to get a set of feeler gages, or perhaps Ill just grab some shim from work.
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If you just make sure you know what the gaps are meant to be 1st then its no harder than doing the main jet.
I did mine in well under a half hr and that was my 1st time. Mine was meant to be 0.04mm but one side was 0.07, the other less than 0.04. I Set them correct and it sounds nicer in there now. Even if its not that, at least you will know how to do it for the future. My manual says to check them every 2nd oil change
I feel your pain bro, hope you get somewhere soon with it, must be real annoying. Thought some more People people wiuld have offered advice, guess theres not many People owners on here?
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Honestly I think its closer to an Agility 50cc than a People 50cc
Wish I would have went with the 2 stroke Super 9, seems like that would have been much quicker.
Main jet should be here on Friday so hopefully Im just running rich.
Im back looking at variators again... the malossi sounds nice but seems difficult to obtain here in the USA.
Might be stuck with the polini....
I just cant see doing the no-name ebay one for $40 when I can get a Polini for $85
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Update....
Just got my #85 Keihin Jet to replace my #88 jet from Tapai
You could tell the quality of this jet... however the hole looked smaller than my #82 that was stock.
I figured what the heck and changed it anyways...
I was so happy to see the spedo hit 40mph I almost crashed.
Got home and decided to put the GPS on there and verify, and guess what.....
34MPH!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!
Im thinking of going back to the 7g rollers that were in there.... 5g Koso sliders might be a little too light.
Ill let you know the next time I feel like taking that CVT cover off
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You may find the 7g too heavy. You could even try 3x 7g and 3x 5g in it? That will give you the same as running all 6.5g rollers. Just space them the out same, ie 1x 7g, then 1x 5g, then 1x 7g, etc, etc.
Just put in 3 or 4 bolts on the case then go test it, that way if you need to go back in to change it after a test run its quicker to do. Once your happy fit back all the bolts.
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Problem is the rollers I have are 7.5g and the sliders I have are 5g
Everything I have read says DO NOT MIX rollers & sliders.
Otherwise I would give that a go!
I usually only put 2 or 3 in there, but I figured I was done with it for a while.
Found a KOSO variatior on Ebay for $32.95 shipped... the sliders I have are Koso so I think Im going to go for it on Sunday when I get my Ebay Bucks
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Have read the topic and it appears to be similar to my experience.
Don't have an american Super 8 but one for the European market (Netherlands).
The specs look the same.
I could not get the speed beyond the 50km (abt 31m/h).
The scooter is brandnew and the CDI is still restricted. I only replaced the stock variator for a NCY variator with 7gr rollers.
The NCY variator comes with 3 shims and the most used setup is using 1 shim.
But no matter what I do, I can't get this scooter to run any faster than about 55 km (abt 34m/h).
I tried more shims but no luck. I tried without shims but speed goes down (should go up with less shims, but not in my case).
I tried the 6,5 gr stock rollers but also no better performance.
So there must be some kind of other restriction on it and I am trying to find out, what this is.
Would it worth a try to put 8gr rollers in it? Should I take off the airfilter and do a short testdrive?
Thanks.
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Dont bother... I have already done that with no improvement.
I have a performance exhaust, but I need to have it welded to a header before I can see if that improves anything.
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Thanks for the reply but it does not look very promising I guess :(. I had already ordered the 8gr rollers so will give it a try anyway.
Every scooter engine is different they say and this stuff does not cost much so I’ll give it another try.
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Honestly the best upgrade I got was going to 5g KOSO sliders
Gave me better acceleration.
I just dont know where my RPM's are now.
5g is enough to push the belt all the way up the variator
I just need to make sure Im not runnint at 10K + RPMs and going to blow my motor!
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It is hardly possible to put a nice permanent rpm meter on this scooter so I bought a cheap meter on Ebay, just for testing.
I have also no idea about the rpm of this scooter so I need to check this first.
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I have a 2009 people s 50 4t, as in 4 stroke. When new, it topped out at an indicated 57-58 kph. Completed the breaking in period and got my first oil change at the dealer. While it was in, I got in contact with Kymco reps via internet. They got in contact with my dealer which proceeded to derestrict the CDI. Result: 68-70 kph. Still, I believe there is still some restriction but I dont care, that speed is good for city trafic. After that, changed the stock rollers. They were 7.0 g., even though the owners manual cites 8.0 g. So, after trying some new 7.0 g rollers, I got some 6.0g rollers. Better acceleration somewhat better up hills, but still, not enough power going up. I mean, pretty steep stuff. I live in a mountain. Did the GPS thing, got 63 kph for an indicated 68-69 kph on the counter. It translates as 39 mph. There was no restrictor on the variator. I tried removing the restrictor in the air filter, but the engine cant take it with the stock jet. It just starves for fuel as there is to much air coming in. I think the last remaining thing left to be done is getting a .85 main jet in the thing and opening up the air intake. As I said, I dont need more speed, just more climbing power. Funny thing though, acceleration seems adequate, never seems to slow down traffic, as a matter of fact, usually the contrary. But the minute I encounter a slight incline, it slows down to 50-55 kph, slower on steeper ones. I'm just lazy about the carb and my wife, which is much lighter than I am ( I'm 200 lbs) doesnt seem to complain. My real bike is a Suzuki DL 650. But still, scooters are so much fun around town....
All this might help you, since the mechanicals on the People s50 4t are about the same as your Super 8 4T. I wouldn't change the variator, I believe It will not give more performance, maybe smoother performance, but I find it acceptable on the Kymco stock one. What I havent figured out is if changing the big pring in the rear part of the trans mission will allow the engine to raise its revs when in need of more power going up hills. As it is right now, it just seems to settle at a constant rpm and just slow down to about 35 kph on the steepest of hills and just stay there until the incline levels off, then the needle on the speedo just sweeps up again.
All in all, maybe not the most performing little machine, but up to now, a very reliable one and easy to drive. Also very cheap on gas.
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That big spring is called the torque spring. Try a 1000rpm one instead and it should help uphills. I used to drop to 20-25mph on my agility 50 up some steep hills, after I fitted a 1000rpm torque I now do 30-35 up the same hills. I def gained at least 5-7mph uphill, and it changes up gear better when I hit the hills if req for more power.
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Thanks Streido!
But does it keep its top speed on the flat ground? Or is it now slower?
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Still get 45-48mph or around 75km/h showing on the speedo on flats. I maybe lost 1-2 mph but im not 100% sure yet, maybe just my imagination and wind. Going to keep an eye on it.